2nd Cad Nav in the Av - In & Working! PART 1

[sperry]

 With thanks to pbuilder (Scott) and his assistance with the details, I have the 2nd (known) UM8 INR/Y91 "factory" system working in an Av. What a relief..
 On to other mods after I recover from the $ shock!
 It seems there are a lot of GM high mucky-mucks that would only say "It cant be done" to dealers attempting to install and program it. Well, Scott had the (GM) information that existed after all, I printed it out and took it to the dealer, they grabbed the programmer, followed the steps to program the amp and it worked; just like that!
 Where they ever surprised after they exhausted every trick they knew of. Especially that they didn't have to hook it up to the GM computer (which was down anyway) to program the amp!

Link to part 2 of this topic.

Link to part 3 of this topic.

[pbuilder]

Like I said< you are 5 min. away from it working. Congrats.  So What does your installer think now.
Scott

[sperry]

 I left him voice mail.. one of his employees arranged the appointment.
 He left for the day by the time I left there; (lots of interest!)
 I tried to call you about the time you posted the other reply; no ans..
 I placed another + on the Karma thingy for you! (whatever you call it now...)
 

[tractman]

We need more details and lots of pics..........Great job. You need to e-mail; Horatio who spent hours and dollars trying to make it work...
Tractman

[sperry]

 Scott (pbuilder) has pics of his. I'll muster up part numbers (if he doesn't have them handy and post them). Most of the work was done by a dealer contractor that couldn't get GM to help much. Scott provided the instructions, and so-on... (As stated earlier).
 We were thinking of horacio; I'm sure he'll follow up with his soon.

[pbuilder]

here are the part #

Um8  # 15204335
Nav Disk #15105609
GPS ant 15207447
Mic #25705367
Amp #15199992

a bit of advise , do not listen to those who say it can't be done.  GM, BOSE, DELPHI. and without changing wiring harness.
Scott

[M0eman]

Congrats Sperry!
   Very happy to hear that you did it!  Even happier to know that I can probably get it done in Santa Anna!  It will be a while before I can go through with it though.  I just spent about $2,000 in mods for a Directed (Clifford Matrix RSX 3.5) alarm (w/enough sensors for Ft Knox)/remote start/TV-Tuner/Video Distribution system (no monitors yet, but they plug right in, and I can program the alarm right through the monitors)(also, just installed a 120db air horn).  Between that and post-graduate school tuition, I'll be eating top-ramen for several months before I can follow through with the DVD-NAV.
   Have fun with your new Nav!

Moe

[sperry]

 Argh!! there has to be something to speed up the install. Your's shouldn't cost as much anyway - the EXT should have the wiring and the amp already. Maybe there's a HU somewhere cheap like the one on eBay
 If it wasn't for the study time, find a side job!
 Well, all set aside, I'm sure they'll still be available when you're ready.

[7of7]

How is the changeout with the factory bose head unit?  This sounds nice!!!  Can find all parts except the Head Unit,...    Do post more pics and instructions on how to do this!!!!

[sperry]

 The HU is just an R&R of the old one; a wire should be added for the vss. (between the cluster and a connector pin at a HU connector). This is to smooth out any jerkey map movement.
 Wiring needs to be changed at the new amp. A microphone is recommended for the Audiopilot to properly operate. (Some opinions of Audiopilot: )
 After that it's programming; most any dealer will unlock the HU and if this news and the document circulates, should be able to do all of it on the spot. No hacking or cutting needed.  Just some wiring changes at the amp and the cluster wire I said earlier.. The GPS antenna bolts-up under the dash; if you want it outside, only then is more work. (It's not designed for the outside - you'll need another compatable one for that.)
 I will certainly try to help/organize instructions!
 Like any mod, pic's are demanded; I didn't wire mine; the project originated back when I bought my truck and I had a dealer contractor do the job...until the snag with the amp programming. Scott (pbuilder) can better suit the pics and instructions request; he did his the hard - old fashon way, - - himself! (Beg, plead, hint...) If I had a digital camera, I'd pic what I could asap but I'll have to wait for a GTG, borrow one, or a similar opportunity.

[Cat Dancer]

Hey Sperry & Scott,

You're the Men!  

Great News and a job well done.

WC

[PHATYELAV]

alright kids I finally picked up my 2004 Arrival Blue WBH with 4:10 gears on Jan 13 2004.. If someone could pm me on the details of this install it would be greatly appreciated.  What functions are still available when doing this upgrade..dvd navigation,xm radio, will it work with steering wheel controls, can you use an after market amp and speaker's, can reg dvd's be played on the system..

COST FACTOR. $$$ I have a pretty eloborate system in my bmw but no nav.. well girfriend bmw.. she bought it so i could get my AV.. bless her heart..

I AM SO GLAD THAT I BELONG TO THIS WEBSITE.. THERE ARE TRULY SOME TALENTED WIZ KIDS HERE. THE WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE THAT IS PASSED BETWEEN MEMBERS IS PRICELESS.

THANK YOU
Dan O

[PHATYELAV]

SPERRY & SCOTT

A very hardy thank you for the time and effort that was put into this DVD navigation retrofit.  I have been a member of the club for a little over 2 years now.  And from the assistance of people like yourselves make this a wonderful site!

I am also looking into doing this upgrade and I was wondering the cost associated with it (ballpark figures don’t need exact)

A couple of questions for you guys.
Is there XM satellite on the NAV unit? Can one be added if not?
Can a DVD player be added to the system for movie’s
Can external amps be added for extra power?
Addition of speaker an issue?
I have about 1400 watts of power that I want to add to the AV with the addition of doubling up the speakers in the front doors (2 sets of  6 ½ ‘s)up front and 1 set in the rear along with 12” sub’s


Um8  # 15204335
Nav Disk #15105609
GPS ant 15207447
Mic #25705367
Amp #15199992

Thank you so much for your help

[pbuilder]

The UM8 is no diffrent than the HU in your av as far as function. XM, onstar, steering wheel controls, RSA, RSE, 6 Disk Changer all work the same. I am adding the 5 disk changer so I can play CDs while using the Nav.. The cost to do it your self is around 2500.00 + or -.  Will depend on your dealer and your disscount if any. If any needs a HU let me know or any other part. This is stall is about 2 to 3 hours to do and a trip to the dealer for programing your new amp. Bose system is a must or you will spend alot of extra$$ to do.  After marker amps will not work with the UM8. I will take pictures this weekend and post.
Scott

[pbuilder]

DVDs will not play in Nav unit. need 6 disk changer to play cds will using nav. other wise you can play cds.
Scott

[Soul Surfer]

So there isn't a CD changer built into this unit? Either 1 DVD using the nav function, or 1 CD playing music? Is that correct?

C

[sperry]

 No changer in this one! Cadillac (Escalades) have their changer seperate, below the HVAC, in the console.
The '05's are suppposed to have a "TNR" (Touchscreen) which should be available in most GM models. I wouldn't be surprised if it'll be a changer also.

I'd be irritated about no changer but fortunately I don't listen to CD's much. With the XM it just never gets to the need. However I have a DVD player that's in the console that'll play them one at a time if I have the one in the HU tied up with the nav disc.

[JWyatt]

I'm curious about something.  Does the Caddy Nav unit have an aux video input or any way to add an aux video?

[sperry]

 No - being a factory unit, I don't think they would risk the liability.(IMO only)
 Many states (if not all) approve nav screens viewable by drivers. Likely all of them (and provinces too) have laws against video screens within the view of a driver. If you want that, the aftermarket units provide it, DVD playback, touchscreen and usually a lower price (if under around $2300).
 "Factory" nav retrofits are simply for the "OEM" look and function.
I'm certain the Delphi unit uses a direct LCD screen driver - interface to it's computer instead of bringing it down to composite or Y/C ("S-video") just to process it again for the display.
 If they did have the entertainment option or had a remote screen capability, Im sure they would then.
 That doesn't mean I won't look for it!

Delphi INR HU

[JWyatt]

Thanks for the reply sperry.  The reason I ask is because I use my AV for on-site instrumentation calibration service work.  I am working on a computer system that I can use to invoice the customer while on-site.   Im not looking for any kind of dvd capabilities(hell the cell phone keeps me tied up enough).

I like the clean install of this system.  It will allow me to install a computer without having to worry about where to mount the monitor.  CUrrently i have my laptop and have to have space for it plus the printer plus the powersupply and all that.  

My plans are to mount the printer in the glove box and the pc will be in the center console, or visa versa.

Any other info is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jerry

[pbuilder]

Hey Jerry
check this site out if you are planing on doing a computer in your AV. I think this is what I am going to use for the entertainment systemin mine as well as a toy to play with and also do onsite invoiceing.
http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/Mini-Checkercube/c136.html

steve I check out the touch screen in the cati and it is a wider din which means most of the GM line will be SOL on them. But it will play DVDs if the parking bark is on. I am told it have a 6 disk changer built in it.
might be a new project for me.  they came out in some of the 04 cati's. XLR and the DTS. I saw one today at the dealer, I should have played with it.
Scott

[sperry]

 The Nav in the Av shure looks easy compared to what this guy "had" to do installing it into his H2! '03 Hummer Nav install (.pdf)
Damn! - -  

[enkeiavalanche]

 after all that $ and time I'll stick to my Kenwood system
 The new one is on the way (kvt915dvd) I have the 911 and Nav 2100 now. couldn't be happier..  Good luck

  Glenn

[pbuilder]

sound like the H2 is more plug and play. they must have the proper amp.
Glad I know where to get the UM8 local.
Scott

[sperry]

after all that $ and time I'll stick to my Kenwood system
 The new one is on the way (kvt915dvd) I have the 911 and Nav 2100 now. couldn't be happier..  Good luck

  Glenn

Each has it's advantage; The puzzle is behind us now. It's just up to the individual what they want. Like most of us, I've had both factory and aftermarket systems of various items recent and past. Combinations of features, performance, fit and goodies don't always come together. I don't have a touch screen or 10 trillion waypoints, fold-out screen, DVD video play and so-on. But I have the factory look I wanted. It's just fine with me and fortunate that we all have choices!

[Arrivalblue]

Congrat on working Nav.system to you guys. For past year I was waiting for anybody to install stock system in avy. You did it! Now what will take ( for all of us still in line to install nav sys) to let us know what exactly needs to be changed on connectors and adding wires. And also the way how the dealer needs to reprogram computer.
One more very happy for you.
Hans

[sperry]

 Hans, if you're ever over near Santa Ana, I'll show it.
 Scott and I have a lot of records, I don't have a digital camera yet and I didn't do the hard work, but with a lot of research and Scott being able to retrieve the proper programming instruction sheet, it's finally done. I'm trying to get something together for the members.  If anyone wants to jump into it now, we'll certainly help!
My installers were relieved too; they can install these complete now, commercially.

...Steve

[pbuilder]

Thanks This is an easy install now that I know what to do.  2 to 3 hours for install and 5 min for programing amp.
This amp will work on the UC6 hu as well if you want better sound.

[av_2500]

I cant believe these arnt standerd yet... Hell my 12 year old olds. has one... Even though it doesnt nearly have the clarity of these new ones... Any ideas to retrofit a new screen in there? lol... I dought i will/could. Weird cuz the av seems so base model compared to my car, even though they both have all options. Oh and im not full of $#!^. this is the navigation system from 12-16years ago.

Images from EBAY


In car
http://carad.ebayimg.com/i21/02/a/01/21/50/15_4.JPG
In car close up
http://carad.ebayimg.com/i16/02/a/01/21/b3/bc_4.JPG

[pbuilder]

That little unit is not quit the same thing.
 no these units will not work for your car.
your radio is just a compus not a nav unit.

[av_2500]

it has road maps...

[sperry]

Is that a triple-DIN? I wonder how many CD's it needed?

[pbuilder]

how is the nav on it

[av_2500]

Nav on it sucks, but each cd holds a rather large chunk of ground... Hard to say how much, cuz like I said it sucks and I dont use it much. It would be cool to put a new EXT nav in the space... You wouldnt believe the ammount of stuff thats in that 12year old car that is just coming out in the av/isnt there yet (i.e. DIC, on board diagnostics(through DIC) perimiter lighting, key hole lighting -not that it needs a door key or anything)

[sperry]

 GM does things like that, so it seems. Like the heads-up in some Buicks.
 Then the whiz-bang will disappear for an indiscriminate amount of time.

[XRover]

I remember when the hot topic in this section was how to install the Caddy  trip computer into the 2002 AV.

I managed to get the Astrovan Trip Computer installed into my 02 Z71.

Now that I have an 04 AV with all that trip computer crap, I don't care about it.

I WANT THAT NAV SYSTEM !!!!


Nice job guys

[AvaZ71]

Sperry,PBuilder:

I have a couple of questions...I own a 2003 Z71 with Bose and 6 disc changer...No XM.

First...I would love to do this mod.Do either of you know where I can get a HU besides the dealer?

Second... I would like to install the 6 disc changer under the Heating controls in the blank cubby hole which is there,is there a harness to connect it to the HU?and do you have a part # for it.

and lastly do the Nav.units come with XM and if so do I have to install the factory XM antenna on the roof.

Thanks in advance.

 

[sperry]

The last I heard the parts come to around $2209 at GM PartsDirect.
The XM is not in the Head units; it's a seperate module near the glove box.
The 6-disk changer can be interfaced just as the XM. The XM isn't easy no more than your current head unit; but it's been done.

 Scott (pbuilder) is working on the changer `last I heard of. PM him..
I didn't bother with it; never had a CD in the Av except to check the original head unit when I picked up the Av new, and I have an aftermarket DVD in the DIN space that'll play a single CD if I want to NAV at the same time..

Sorry about any column mis-alignment; The handling of Tab stops seem to be an oversight in the board software; it's a bit difficult to present it neatly!
I found the list:
GM PartsDirect Pricing:

INR HU P/N:         15204334    $1625.00   Alt#: 15204335 (Both Worked)
Amp(UM8/Y91):    15199992 - -   320.74  
GPS Antenna:      15207447 - -    45.25   “Module” A new # is: 15135178
US/CAN DVD:       15105609 - -   183.44
Microphone:         25705367 - -    24.82
INR Manual:         15192793a  -    10.00   Order from http://www.helminc.com
                                          ----------
                                       $ 2209.25
            + Tax:
          + Shipping:  
                                          -----------
Alt Amp P/N's:
                                    #15199884
                                    #15114445
                                    #15114454 Denali
                                    #15191601
                                    #15112662
                                    #15054675

Connector on mic is:         #12052833
Mating conn. for mic:        #12085481
Connector terminals:   GM   #12020757  for 20-18 GA
                              GM   #12020758  for larger wire
PDF Version of INR Manual

Notice the amp has to be changed out and some wiring has to be switched around, but you'll like the better audio quality; much "cleaner" than the UC6 system.
 The mike is for the noise-cancelling "AudioPilot" function; some don't like it.
HTH!

Edits: I keep adding amp P/N's!

[rab356]

Dare I ask what the damage would be for an 02 without the Bose system??

[sperry]

 It's a disappointment that it isn't designed for it; I just never looked into the '02's to compare the differences; I hear it's considerable.

 But at least with the whiz-bang aftermarket goodies/Nav's, you have the fix.
 

[gable74]

can someone help me with some details on what wiring mods need to be done when installing the AMP and head unit.  

[sperry]

  Start at this post (#30)

And PM me so I can send you a wiring X-reference for the Amp. (via your e-mail).
I need to send it to another member also..

I get a bit busy at work so bear with me and you may need to remind me.

HTH.
 Steve

[AvaZ71]

Sperry;

Can you send me the PDF of the manual and any other schematics for wiring.

...Thanks...

[sperry]

Here's the link: Select "Save a Copy" when it's done loading, like any PDF, if you can't "save it to a file" after you click on it.
(UM8) User's Manual .PDF (Cadillac version)
 It's 1.8MB
 Or you can order a smaller hard copy from Helm Inc. for $10.00 Part #: 15192793a.

HTH!
...Steve

[sperry]

Richie, your files (3 to start) were sent 3-18 @ 9:38PM ET
...Steve

[Ice]

So this unit will only work on an 03 or newer AV that has a factory installed 6 disc changer and the "digital" dual heating and air controls?     My 03 doesnt have the 6 disc changer slot,  all I have is the single cd slot with the heating and air controls below the cd and the heating controls are 2 "levers" that you move up or down to change the temperature.  
Thanks
ICE

[sperry]

ICE, I wouldn't say that it won't, just that I hadn't heard of it yet. The mention of the bose 6-disk was likely too "included" with the '02 statement. Many learned to never say never  regarding this retrofit; there were a lot of "naysayers" but it worked after all. What you could encounter is a wiring/harnessing change. Or many unknowns. If you succeed, I'm sure many of us would be pleased to hear of it

 From what I read, '02's have an entirely different entertainment wiring and has a 1½ DIN mount. The work to change that out I believe would be considerable, but I don't know enough about the details to really comment on it.

 I doubt that the HVAC type in your '03 will effect the changeout but it is in the instruction menu as a selection choice when you setup the TechII to program the amp. This Nav/amp was designed for the "Luxury" line of vehicles; no doubt they all would have the "Automatic HVAC", but since I hadn't heard of an install into a vehicle with the manual system to date; I can't provide you with a yes or a no! My "gut" (and that's a big one ) feeling is that it shouldn't matter but the General works in mysterous ways...

If you do attempt to go for it, I'll certainly be interested and will help with what I can offer!

If it's a no-go,
'Nothin wrong with the aftermarket eq. except the factory look! (And the shifter clearance for some pop-outs.)
HTH!

[gable74]

How can I find out if this AMP is compatible?  It was said to have come from a 04' hummer, and has the H2 sig. on the sticker.  Its physically identicle to the Denali AMP #15199992.  The model of this amp is #15199884.  Can anyone find out if this is a good AMP to use with the UM8 INR System?  Thanks

[sperry]

The Nav HU (part # visible ending in "5"), in the Hummer post earlier showed it as just a changout in an `03 Hummer No amp change. Apparently it already had the amp. I didn't see that # but  the 15191601 amp was another unchecked #, so your's make it three different amps and two different HU part #'s known of, to date.
The HU's don't appear to be a problem, different with some unknown - whatever.
maybe a function or rom version, who knows.
 I would feel that if the amp came with a Denali console and has an H2 sticker on it that they configure universally.
Is that amp larger than your stock one (maybe twice as long)? It could also be a version like the UC6 amp, only it can comm with the nav HU. It could also be why the unprogrammed operation differs from Scott's and mine did before ours were programmed. (Oops, you said that).
 As you can tell, I just don't have anything positive for you as I don't do this for a living, and find out the hard way.
 Hummer could have equipped H2's this way but I doubt that was done in a Denali.
 While we were "grabbing at straws", the rumor mill had a communication regarding a compatable Nav HU for the UC6 system/amp. I've never seen it, but I'm still prying and asking.

[gable74]

well, i dont have a Denali console.....its just an AMP and NAV HU from a Hummer.  The thing is the NAV unit and AMP are not mates from the same vehicle or there would be no question as to its compatability.  I just cant find out whether this AMP is good for a NAV HU yet.  I didnt want to have to go through the work and pay for programming and find out its not.  I do know of another AMP model #15114445 that is absolutely a match for the NAV HU's.  The GM parts guy at the local dealer gave me that # as an upgrade and/or switch out to the #15199992 AMP.  So thats 2 for sure.  Just need to find out if mine is a match now.  Some hummers came with the 6 disk HU, and thus if this AMP came from one of those Hummers, i would have to guess its not compatible.  Oh, and this AMP of mine looks absolutely identicle to the Denali AMPs, it has the cooling fins and tappers down more narrow at the end.  My stock AMP is smaller and more boxy.

[sperry]

Good info... I must have mixed you up with another (my aging mind... )
If you have both the amp's available, keep everything open and talk them into programming both on one ticket - allowing for a battery and amp disconnect / reconnect of course. They may want to know too, if they both work or not, at least we'll know..

[gable74]

I do not have both available....just the one #15199884.  I will fart around a little this weekend with it, but i fear i wont know for sure until i get it programmed.  I was just trying to avoid the wasted trip.  The other amp i referenced in the last post was a quote from a parts guy.  I called requesting a price in the #15199992 and he told me they were using a replacement, the replacement was the #15114445.  

[gable74]

Okay, just got off the phone with the HUmmer parts guy (the only one that would actually talk to me).  He told me that he only lists 1 AMP that is used in the hummer.  1 AMP for ANY HU in the hummer.  I explained that I had a NAV HU and i wanted to be sure this would work with it and he said it should, because he didnt list any other AMPs available for a Hummer.  He also said that that AMP has been replaced with a new but equal part #15112662.  So, #15199884 (mine) and #15112662 are the same AMP and are compatible with any HU that comes in a hummer.  Good news?  Not sure, but at least i might be a little closer.  So does this mean that this AMP will work for both the 6 disk indash HU (UC6) and the NAV HU (UM8)?  Maybe.

[sperry]

 That would be interesting! Although I like the new amp; `sounds a lot cleaner.

The UC6 HU uses an amp turn-on for it's paired amp; the UM8/Y91 uses the data bus. The chime circuit is in the HC6 HU but in the UM8's amp. But no doubt there are configuration work-arounds, redundancies or not...

 Stay tuned to this station for further announcements...

[gable74]

Okay, so my plan tomorrow is to do a little wiring in the AMP harness and see what i can see.  What are the odds that if this AMP "IS" compatible, that i will have some sort of audio or anything?  My fear is that i will get the harness changed around and i will still have nothing, and even if everything is done correctly, i still will not know until its programmed.  What im starting to believe is its going to be a big game of "cross your fingers" when and if i go to the dealer for a reprogram.  Does that sound right?  Is there anyone who did this MOD and it worked when they were done before they went to the dealer for a program?  I know you still have to go to get it customized, but maybe have some sort of audio before that?

[sperry]

 Audio: If you un-theftlocked the HU already, and the amp was from another vehicle instead of new, there's a fair chance it'll work. If you only have audio in the Rt. front speaker, normal   chime function (and OnStar if you have it), It will just need programming. You should have it checked whether it works or not because the Hummer speaker config may have been different and there may be error codes that you need to clear.

NAV: Presuming that the head unit is theftlock-cleared, and with the VSS wire connected and the GPS antenna connected, etc.,you get a very slow pointer/map response, don't be alarmed. Slowly it "trains" and improves over several miles driven. Drive around a while until it appears to nav ok, then take it in for the programming and code clearing. You may want to "negotiate" this when you pay for clearing the theftlock.

[gable74]

well, i know the AMP was out of a Hummer that was pulled out of it the next day after it was purchased.  The HU is out of a Hummer as well, jut not the same one.  I was told that the BCM will have to be programmed to use the new HU and AMP.  The HU will send the correct signals to the BCM to turn on the AMP and start up, but if the BCM doesnt know what to do with the signal it wont work.  Thats what one person told me, so im not sure.  I will give it a go tomorrow, any secrets for removing the pins on the harness before i get started?

[sperry]

I believe the BCM holds a "table" of the connected/configured modules. It's getting the config info when the amp does. No connection needs to be made to the GM system computer unless maybe a HU unlock, if at all. Only an updated TechII programmer is needed for the amp; just follow the doc instructions and set the "platform type c/k" for as close as description of vehicle platform as you have, that is a luxury version. (Silverado=Sierra Denali,  Avalanche=Escalade EXT, Suburban = Yukon XL Denali or Escalade ESV and so-on....) Most of that is the number of speakers & acoustic setup.

We did mine exactly by the document, selected Escalade EXT, cycled the key and it worked the first time.

[gable74]

thats some promising info!  Well, i will get to some wiring tomorrow and i will update you with my progress.  thanks very much for the help.  If you have any hints as to popping the pins out of the harness, im all ears.  Im sure i can do it fine, but there is always someone who has done it before that can usually pass some hints along.   I will let you know how i do.

[sperry]

If you don't have a pin extractor, try a needle or a safety pin. When you go to a dealer parts dept.,see if they have pins and an extractor. A handy tool!

[gable74]

Well, i would just like to say hell yes!  I wired everything up and did the pre-install (just sat the radio and AMP in, not completely installed yet) and it works like a charm.  Followed the schematic, and the AMP wiring changes and BINGO!  Turned the key on ACC and got the theftlock like i always do, and then i just unplugged the harness and plugged it back in while keeping the key in ACC position and it came up as usual....only this time i had perfect audio!  At least it sounded perfect....im sure it needs to be programmed to my vehicle, but by itself it sounds better than the old amp.  I am pretty excited now, all  i have to do is a little more tearing apart of the console to get the AMP secured and im done!  im going to get some PICs of it while its still open.  I will touch base soon.

[gable74]

Okay, everything is back together and looks great!  I am taking her in on tuesday to get reprogrammed and unlocked.  If there is not an option on the tech2 for "sierra denali", which is the closest to my vehicle (silverado ext cab)?  Will the cadillac EXT. work okay?  Also i have three wires that i need help with.  The first one is on the 24 pin AMP harness....there are 2 drain wires on the UM8 harness where on the UC6 there is only one.  I hooked up the "bare" drain wire where it was supposed to go but the other one is "LT Green/BLK", and all i have are "BARE" drain wires.  So i left that one out.  Second, is the Noise reduction mic supply voltage.....i dont have this yet but im looking for a place to get it.  Lastly is the VSS wire coming from the instrument cluster....there are 2 "DRK green/wht" wires in the instrument cluster harness, and  i dont know which one to connect to, or where it plugs into in the radio harness, any help with that would be great.
Oh, and when i go to get this programmed on tuesday, is there an option in the programming that will let me select an AUX cd changer?  I plan on putting one in real soon, but im not sure if it will recognize the changer from class II data wire like it did the AMP or if i need to program it to see it.  The HU came from a hummer, which doesnt have a AUX cd changer option, thats why i ask.   A lot of info here so let me summerize....

1. drain wire issue
2. mic supply line
3. Vss wire (how to find it and where to hook it up)
4. AUX CD changer program?

[gable74]

Almost forgot....Add these AMP #'s to the definate NAV HU Compatible AMP list...cause now I am sure...


#15199884
#15199992
#15114445
#15112662

[gable74]

I just talked to the guy who sold me the AMP....The hummer that this AMP came out of had a factory 6 disk HU.  Hmmmmmm, that makes things interesting HUH?  This AMP will run both systems.  

[sperry]

Jimmy,
If they program it without the changer, it may need to be prog'd again when you install it. Ask them if they have a way to manually put that selection in; I hadn't tried it since I didn't bother with the changer; Scott did.
 He may also know if it'll sense that it's there and operate after all, but I doubt it unless it was programmed that way. The Tech will likely see error codes with it missing like: B2203, B2403, U1154, U1155 and the most likely U2003 Code:"Audio Compact Disk / Disk Jockey Unit is Not Responding". If it shows that code, the HU was programmed for it.

The "DrkGrn/White" wire for circuit #817 (VSS) is pin "A4" on the back of your cluster. That's the closest physical tap point. It comes from the PCM and distributes all over the place. Your wire can join with it. Remove that contact and solder the wire end with the other one. Electrically it's the same as it would be at the block.

Remember, if you drive around for a while without it, then connect it, you'll think you gacked it. The Nav operation gets very sluggish and can take up to a minute or two to update, gradually getting better. It'll surely be full of error codes too. You just may need to do some  follow-up programming when that's all done. Meanwhile, it'll work without it anyway; it's just a little smoother with it.

Interesting how much better that amp sounds, eh!

[sperry]

 The "drain" wire' I would believe would be for any shielded wiring. If you don't get any alt whine the shielding and grounding should be ok. You may want to run that past Scott (pbuilder); find out what he did. Use an Ohmmeter; it may just be a chassis connection.

The mic isn't necessary; I still didn't get mine in yet. Look for the AVC on-off setting in the audio menu and just shut it off for now.

[gable74]

The "DrkGrn/White" wire for circuit #817 (VSS) is pin "A4" on the back of your cluster. That's the closest physical tap point. It comes from the PCM and distributes all over the place. Your wire can join with it. Remove that contact and solder the wire end with the other one. Electrically it's the same as it would be at the block.

One of my schematics you sent me shows it being connected to pin "E" of the 12 way AUX harness on the back of the HU, is that right?  You say Pin "A4" on the back of the instrument cluster is my "VSS" wire?  So pin "A4" of the instrument cluster conects to pin "E" of the AUX HU harness correct?  

Another thing, you say my radio may be full of error codes when it gets programmed.  Where will these error codes pop up?  Will they pop up during the programming?

The other drain wire i referenced as not having, i found the answer to.  Its actually part of the mic harness that i have not hooked up yet (and you say you have not yet either).  There are 2 wires that connect that MIC to the AMP.  One is the +voltage wire and the other is a drain wire, so thats where that comes from.  

I have repeatedly tried to get a hold of Scott (Pbuilder) but he must be busy....cause i wanted to ask him some questions about programming for a future AUX changer.  I have the changer, i just need to make the cable to connect the HU to it.  If i can pick up a 9 pin patch cable from the dealer i can make it myself.  I just dont think i can do it by tuesday when i have it programmed.  So i wanted to see if they could program for it even if it was not there.

[sperry]

Hmmm, print 1248651 shows that; on connector 2. but the cluster print shows row B, #4 of connector 1 of the HU; That latter one should be empty at present. That's the one we connected to.
It may be common inside the HU but I remember when looking at mine the other connector (C2-E) had something in that location.

He can check error codes before & after the programming but if I was doing it, I'd clear them first.
I'm going to do a follow-up soon to see if there are any showing again in mine, just to be sure.
The error codes show when he selects to view them; they're just (supposedly) stored as they occur, whether there's a fatal or incidental fault. They stay until they're cleared or something weird happens...
`Don't know the VSS - to Nav error code..

 I don't have the changer, so it shouldn't be a problem; you may want to follow-up when all is settled and installed anyway. Deal with them on the cost. Some dealer's are so interested in them that if you help them (such as showing them the programming instruction print that supposedly didn't exist), they'll just do it out of curiousity. Other's aren't interested and yet there's some that "know all about it and do it all the time"; "That'll be $71.00"!!! (Like hell they do, been-there-done that.)

I thought so. Things that need a shield or need to be grounded...

[gable74]

Hmmm, print 1248651 shows that; on connector 2. but the cluster print shows row B, #4 of connector 1 of the HU; That latter one should be empty at present. That's the one we connected to.
It may be common inside the HU but I remember when looking at mine the other connector (C2-E) had something in that location.

Okay, so pin "A4" of the instrument cluster harness to pin "B4" of the 24 way HU harness?  I will do that first thing tomorrow.  Thanks.

[gable74]

well, im still not sure on the wire points for the VSS yet, so when someone has a minute, can they post the pins i need to connect to.  I just need to verify that this is correct.....
 
Pin "A4" from the instrument cluster harness, to Pin "B4" of the NAV HU 24 Pin harness.  Correct?

On another note, i decided to put that part off and go looking for the 2 harnesses i need to install the 6 disk changer.  I need the 9 pin for the changer and the 12 pin for the HU....or at least some spare pins to solder to and install in the factory 12 pin harness.  As one would expect, the couple of stereo shops (i wont name names) had no idea what i was talking about, much less tell me any place to get them.  Most even said, they dont make them.  I said what are you talking about?  They are easily ordered off the net, im just trying to get them a little faster than having to wait for delivery.  Still they insisted i didnt know what i was talking about... .  Are we that much more advanced at what we are doing here than stereo shops out there that do it for a living?  So i scrapped that idea too, and will wait till tomorrow to get what i need from the parts dept. at the dealer.  I did get one thing accomplished though, i got the 6 disk changer fitted into my dash real nice.  It took a little cutting and trimming here and there, but it looks real nice....best of  all, IT LOOKS FACTORY NICE.   Well, it looks like i may have to postpone programming a few days if i cant find the parts i need from the dealer tomorrow.  I will keep you all posted.  Here is a pic of the 6 disk installed in the my console.  You can compare it to the one i posted a few replies back to see the difference.

[sperry]

Jimmy,
 You shouldn't have any trouble at the dealer getting the connector & pins; my parts "contact" stocks them- I presume your should. You have the print & part numbers... A little tape and loom - you're in!
 
 I hope the prints give you enough info.

 There are professional stereo shops and there are (ahem) you know the type..
 But there seems to be only a few that have the knowledge you are looking for. Someone here used the phrase "Deer in the headlights look". Well, just move on!
Find who your dealer contracts with and start there.

 I saw a post from Scott today, so I would say he has the first-hand at the changer setup..
HTH!, Steve

Edit: BTW, the mount looks really clean!
 I wonder what your dealer will think when you take in in next time?

[gable74]

Thanks Steve....it was a little hairy making the cut, but as soft as that plastic was.....a nice straight line and a sharp razor knife did the trick just fine.  If anyone is going to attempt this, the key is to leave 3/16" of an inch of plactic inside the cup.  In other words, measure from the face into the cup 3/16" and draw your line around the entire inside of the cup.  Then start scoring the line real soft at first until you got a groove cut, then keep scoring the line until your throught the plastic.  I started with 5/16", and had to trim it to 3/16" to make it fit smooth.  I talked to Scott the other day via PM, and he has not gotten the changer done yet, so it looks like im venturing into no-mans land now.....very exciting.  So, my plan tomorrow is to pick up some stuff......

Nav antenna

Nav MIC.

9 pin to 9 pin slave cable...and cut one end off

pins for the 12 pin HU harness....(anyone got a part number for these pins...or should they know?)

I will keep you all posted on my progress.  Still looking for verification for that VSS wire.

[sperry]

 I thought you had done the vss wire..
That was my connection points.
PM Scott and see what his take is..

I have a pic of the connector but not the part #. I hate to admit it, I never posted one in a thread on this board; nothing in the help showed me how to upload them!!   Looks like only from a url. (img command.) And I don't have my own web page. (Had a BBS once...never again!!)

I believe the mic is for other systems using the Y91 "Luxury" system. "Nav" mic may confuse them. Maybe: "Mic for the noise-cancelling in the Luxury audio system" I'd mount it at the rear of the console, above  or close to the RSA control panel, available to the noises at the center of the cab.

The hummer nav antenna bracket looked different than mine but it was the same part number! Go figure...

[gable74]

i have a part number for the connector...its #12064799.  But that is just the connector, i will need the pins that go inside of it......i was looking for a part number for this pins.  They will probably know what im talking about. 

I know we went over it a bunch of times, but sometimes i can be really dense .  I was trying to make sure what you were telling me was this.........

VSS wire =
pin "A4" of the instrument cluster harness connects to pin "B4" of the HU 24 pin harness.  Correct?
EDIT on 4-16-05: This is INCORRECT, a GM documentation error. HU Connector 2, "E" is the correct radio end! Sperry

these are the part numbers i have for the items i mentioned if anyone can confirm this....
GPS ant---------------------------#15207447
Mic----------------------------------#25705367
AUX 9 pin harness-------------- #15312903
12 way HU AUX connector-----#12064799 (not sure the part # for the pins that go inside)


Edit: Correction in retrospect.

[gable74]

just wanted to post a few pics of the install for others to see.

[gable74]

another

[gable74]

and another

[gable74]

again

[gable74]

last

[sperry]

Well, your list looks good to me but they still owe me the mic! I hope someone can confirm your changer cable! Remember, I opted out on that goodie! And I was just given some contacts, so that won't help!! (I didn't need them anyway because of my circumstances...)

We love pic's here thanks for sharing them! I just didn't get the opportunity for providing any myself .`Just the avatar.
 Looks like the highest "financial risk" you took is behind you; I hope they have the connectors!

[sperry]

Here's a link for those who want so spend even more on OEM Nav enhancements!

http://www.avelectronic.com/products.htm

[gable74]

Okay i got the low down from SCOTT, here is what he has on the VSS wire....

Pin "A4" from the instrument cluster harness to Pin "E" in the C2 harness on the back of the HU.

I found my AUX cable today and im going to get that wired up as well.

The NAV antenna is holding me up now.....i cant find anyone who has it, and they are telling me 5 days minimum for delivery.  I HATE DEALERS!  I had to stop at a GMC dealer to get a VIN from a Denali that had this as OEM equipment before they would even try to order it.  Try explaining to a dealer that your installing a NAV radio (that they say you cant get) into a Vehicle that didnt come with that option (that they say wont work) and tell them you need an antenna to plug into it that they say you cant get without a VIN (that your vehicle doesnt have because it didnt come with that option).  My head was spinning and if i had my gun with me i would probably be in jail now.  Long story short, i had to postpone programming until i can get this antenna.  Now that i gave them a VIN that has that option in it, they say it might be 5 days or more until i can get it.  Unless anyone here knows how i can get one, or has one to sell......it may be until next week till i wrap this thing up completely.  I will keep you all on the up and up as things progress

[sperry]

GM parts direct - ship next day air (or overnight, if you want to pay for it)!
Get the order in quick!

Typical, but I wouldn't be surprised that it isn't a stock item at a dealer..

That "You can't do that" is a common response; I have fun with it now.

Edit: I believe it's a "common" connection in the HU; available at either connector. The HU print shows one way, the cluster print (showing the HU connection) shows another....

[gable74]

I tried to order from GM-parts-direct, but i kept getting an "out of stock" error on the reply E-mail.  So it seems they couldnt get it either.  Looks like i will have to wait unless someone has some inside info for me.. .

im in the process of wiring up my 6 disk changer and i noticed there is a pin for "Instrument panel lamps dimming", #8 on the 9 pin Slave harness.  I know it hooks to pin "B4" of the C1 connector on the HU (according to DOC #1248651), but i dont know where to pick it up from on the truck.  Do you know which pin on the instrument cluster harness is for the dimmer?  I PMed Scott so hopefully he will know if nobody else does.

[gable74]

One other thing that i know will help those who are going to hook up the 6 disk changer.....

Buy the 9 pin to 9 pin slave harness part #15312903....its $22.  You only need one end that plugs into the slave device because the other end needs to be pinned out and plugged into the correct locations on the C2 12 pin harness on the back of the HU.  Dont "CUT" the other end off, just remove the pins with a paper clip and they push right into the 12 way harness, all you have to do is put them in the correct locations.  They are the same type of pins!  This makes it very easy to hook up.  I am going to make up a DOC showing the 9 pin to 12 pin harness and what goes where, when i finish up and verify that it all works 100%.

[sperry]

I tried to order from GM-parts-direct, but i kept getting an "out of stock" error on the reply E-mail.  So it seems they couldnt get it either.  Looks like i will have to wait unless someone has some inside info for me.. .

im in the process of wiring up my 6 disk changer and i noticed there is a pin for "Instrument panel lamps dimming", #8 on the 9 pin Slave harness.  I know it hooks to pin "B4" of the C1 connector on the HU (according to DOC #1248651), but i dont know where to pick it up from on the truck.  Do you know which pin on the instrument cluster harness is for the dimmer?  I PMed Scott so hopefully he will know if nobody else does.

You don't need to deal with it; the HU will adjust by it's settings, the Day/night sensor and by your dimmer wheel without having to add/change any wires.

Good call on the changer harness; the easy way out!

Call around some scrap yards; maybe they have one they'll sell W/O the HU.

Didn't the dealer check around for stock at other dealers in the area?

BTW, do you post your images on a web page and link to them or post them here; I can't find the command to upload an image from a local computer!! `Never did one!

[gable74]

i tried EVERYWHERE! no one had any at all.  I will just have to bite the bullet and wait a few days.  Thanks for the info on the dimmer wire.  I kinda thought i didnt need it, but i wanted to be sure.

I am part of a few other forums, so i just post pics on those forums and use thier HTML addy to link the pics to.

[sperry]

Oh well, at least you didn't buy it before you didn't know that it worked... Enough of a risk already.

I reply / check on the "recent posts". That covers the open forums as a whole.
I just post new subjects in the specific one.

I never received an answer from the "knowledgable"; except just once, but I don't have that resource.

[pbuilder]

Hey Steve

the schematic is wrong. B4 Is the dimmer wire.
Scott

[gable74]

okie dokie, just an update.  Got my cable made up and it worked out perfectly, the pins just slid right in where i needed them to into the 12 way "C2" HU harness.  Best of all the changer worked perfectly.  Looks like there is NO programming needed.  Appearently it is self detecting, cause i hooked it all up, and hit the "DISK" button, and the "CDX" symbol popped up and started playing the disk in the changer.  Damn this is sweet, just a week ago i was thinking i had the wrong AMP and a bad NAV HU.  Cant thank Steve and Scott enough for the help.  All i need to do now is wait till the antenna comes in and get it programmed.

[AvaZ71]

CONGRATS ;

Can you please send me any schematic you have for the 6disc,I am in the process of getting all the components just about have everything.

Question ...do you have XM,also I need part number for XM factory antenna,if you have it.

Thanks...Richie...

[gable74]

I dont have XM, but if you send me your E-mail i will send you what i have for the 6 disk changer setup.

[sperry]

Hey Steve

the schematic is wrong. B4 Is the dimmer wire.
Scott

Now, that's weird! The HU connection diagram says that too; the cluster print has it as ckt 817 (VSS)!  Mine works though. Hmmmm.

 I thought it was getting dimming data from the class II bus, until I saw that! I'm sure that the VSS was on the larger connector! Isn't it the same as the old HU, except there was no conneted wire for the VSS?

 I really have to be careful poking things into empty holes!

[sperry]

okie dokie, just an update.  Got my cable made up and it worked out perfectly, the pins just slid right in where i needed them to into the 12 way "C2" HU harness.  Best of all the changer worked perfectly.  Looks like there is NO programming needed.  Appearently it is self detecting, cause i hooked it all up, and hit the "DISK" button, and the "CDX" symbol popped up and started playing the disk in the changer.  Damn this is sweet, just a week ago i was thinking i had the wrong AMP and a bad NAV HU.  Cant thank Steve and Scott enough for the help.  All i need to do now is wait till the antenna comes in and get it programmed.

  Really good to hear that Jimmie!
Scott mentioned VSS wiring print conficts; but mine works! For now, follow up on what he did.
 I was covering it with my contracted installer and only worked with him briefly and saw it poked there, then got back out of his way. I'd have to pull it to see but Scott has more of a first-hand at it.

 We know that the amp is "flashed" to a configuration now, since your's worked from used eq. There's a good chance that the speaker wiring is the same but I'd compare the Hummer print and your's to be sure.

Kinda neat to be unique eh! "Naverado" maybe?

[gable74]

LOL, yeah...but i was thinking more along the lines of Escarado!  

Sounds like to me the BCM is set up from the get go, to accept what ever radio configuration is fed to it.  Cause my BCM was a base level UC6 setup and it responded just fine when the new equipment was installed.  Any idea what the speaker set up is in the Hummer?  To be honest, im not 100% sure what my setup is.  Im pretty sure its 6 speakers....two in the front pillars, two in the door panels, and two in the back.  Either way it sure does sound a hell of a lot better than the old one.

[sperry]

  Maybe go to a hummer lot or ask the parts guy that helped you....

  That's weird how much better sound quality you get; an added benefit...
 
 Now, get an XM module; you'll love it, I'm sure!

[pbuilder]

Steve
yours must be in the right connector or it wouldn't work.  I trust the conector pinout over the schematic.

the HUs get programed to the BCM except this one doesn't. the amd gets program for the cabin size and speekers . I should check to see if the rear tweeddlers work.  I got a diffrent amp #15054675 and had it programed the other day and it works. need to have them turn the mic on for they didnt check it when they did it.
good deal on the 6 disk Jimmie and the nav. Did you get the nav disk with it.

[pbuilder]

Just check the H2 and it has the rear tweeddlers installed so it is like the Denali.

[sperry]

Steve
yours must be in the right connector or it wouldn't work.  I trust the conector pinout over the schematic.

 Agreed: The simple fact is the open spot on the connector.
The dimmer connection is already wired to the other.

[gable74]

I dont have any dimmer connections made at all.  I thought i didnt need them. And i made my VSS wire from Pin "A4" of the instrument cluster harness, to Pin "E" of the C2 HU harness like Scott said.  I hope thats right.....i will see soon enough.

Yes i got the NAV disk, all im waiting on now is the NAV antenna and i can get it programmed.  Its all working perfectly.

So if the hummer is set up like the Denali....i will definately need my AMP tweeked for the cabin size.

Almost done now, i can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

[sperry]

 I'd only look for it if it doesn't work...
If you have any interest in XM, there's a member selling one with an antenna here. Now's the time!

[gable74]

Who and how much........does he have everything i need to install it?  I am not familiar with that setup.

[sperry]

Click on the "here" hyperlink of my previous post!
...And ask him!

The included equipment:  I think so...

 You may have to hassle with it (theftlock)but another member was able to take care of that...

Remember, it was a $325 option.

[gable74]

Got my antenna, quicker than i thought.  I will setting up programming maybe by the end of the week.  They changed the part number on that antenna module.....the new number is #15135178.

[sperry]

                         Noted.. I'll edit the other post.

I tried to contact you, in a timely manner about the XM, I presume you found it..

I guess you're installing the antenna now...?  

[AvaZ71]

Does anyone have the part # for factory XM antenna

[sperry]

XM Antennas..P/N:

  '03: 15174788
 
  '04: 15205583

HTH  

[AvaZ71]

Thanks...Sperry

One question do you know if there is a difference,XM module from 04' Denali,going into my 03'Avalanche.

...

[sperry]

I really doubt it but you should use the `04 Antenna; There were changes made there.

By rumor:
Remember, if it isn't new, get the vehicle's VIN it came from; you may need it to restore the lock. It isn't locked like the head units.I believe Horacio may now more about it.

[gable74]

SPERRY, where does this antenna get mounted?  I know it goes inside the dash near the HU, but you dont have a drawing or anything do you?  Does the module install flat or verticle?

[sperry]

I'll bet you have some rosey statements about now, trying to find the damn thing...

  You'll have to reach in and find about a 2½" square cutaway in the dashtop framework, toward the cowl/front, from the HU hole and center, then look for the mount hole by the antenna's frame. Picture the practical cable-length fit of the antenna (if they hadn't changed it) so you won't go too far.
 It lays flat with the dashtop. I have a crude drawing that MAY help, I'll send it to you.
 (A picture's worth a thousand words...)

[gable74]

yes sir...please send.  I am waiting till the MIC gets in before i install the antenna.  I will just do them both at the same time.  Scott mentioned something a few posts back about, "they" didnt turn on the MIC when they programmed the HU.  What does that mean?  Do they have to "turn on" the MIC during programming?  I thought that was plug and play?  I just figured if it was hooked up when the HU was programmed all would be fine.  I am anxiously awaiting the drawing...... .  Thanks Steve.

[gable74]

Got it!  Thanks Steve.

[sperry]

 It's a seperate thing... The HU is the friendly one; the theftlock mostly. The amp needs to know the environment. The mic, I would believe, shouldn't matter. However Scott experienced it, so...?

 My mic STILL isn't in yet!! (I think they're jackin' me around..)

  The noise cancelling (automatic volume control, as they wish to call it) is selectable in the audio menu; I leave mine off. I would believe the amp may send error codes without it, but that's all.

  The antenna is in a different place to open-up, right? Install it so you can play!
That is if you can find the "spot"!!

[gable74]

if my MIC is not in by tomorrow, i am going to go ahead and install the antenna.  I tried to get a hold of Scott earlier....i got a line on a 2003 changer that will work for his setup.  I sent him the link so i hope he gets it.  Are you still looking for one?   I can send the link to you also if you want it.

[pbuilder]

Hey Jimmie

The mic gets programed in the amp. when programing it you can turn it on or off in the amp, unless it is on in the amp the HU can't turn it on. If it is not install it might not be able to be turned on in the amp untill it sees it.
Scott

[gable74]

So at what point in the programming procedure would the AMP get turned on?  I was looking at the programming DOC, and i have a few things to get done.

1.) program the AMP for my speaker setup
2.) remove any error codes that have generated since i did the install
3.) turn the MIC on

Will there be a prompt on the techII for programming the MIC during the programming procedure?

[pbuilder]

programing the amp is a 2 min job. you are tell the bcm that it is there and then it sets up the the amp for the truck it is in. You then can check volume % for each speeker as well as onstar, the mic if it is on or off as well as other things.
If the mic is off you turn it on.
Scott

[gable74]

Thanks Scott,  I got the MIC in today so i will be getting it all programmed tomorrow.  The breakdown drawing shows the MIC being mounted on the front of the console on the drivers side...it that correct?  It has a plug on it also...i guess im gonna have to remove the plug and hard wire it to the AMP harness.  Can anyone give me a little more direction on exactly where this thing mounts?

[pbuilder]

Jimmie

GO look at where it is mounted on a yukon so you get the iddea where it should go. What I did was drill 4 little hole with a dremal and hot glued the mic to the black plastis on the console kinda like where the changer is. I also bought a pig tail for the mic and redid the pig tall witn a 6 ft mini plug ext. wire that you can get a radio shack.
Scott

[gable74]

okay, i have the MIC installed and the Antenna installed.  I hope its not absolutely critical where that antenna goes.  It is flat (horizontal) with the dash about 3 inches below it.  I mounted it on a dash bracket about 2 inches behind the radio to the left a little.  There is no metal above it so i think it should be fine.  I could not find ANY other place for it to go.  Also, that was the only place that had a spot for the bracket screw.  It has the circuit board side up to the dash.  Is that right?  Well, i have an appointment at 9am tomorrow morning at the dealer to get this sucker programmed.  Im pretty excited to get this all wrapped up.....i will keep you posted.

[pbuilder]

Jimmie go drive it see if you like it.
Scott

[sperry]

It should start working!...
   Worst case, very sluggish, gradually improving over a few miles.

Go play!

[gable74]

LOL...i wish i could but i still got a little guy named "THEFTLOCK" to deal with.  remember?  I can bypass it in ACC, but once i start the truck it resets and theftlock engages again......i will have to wait till tomorrow .  Im hoping where i got the antenna will be okay.  We will see!

[sperry]

Oh   Hmmm OK.

  That would be a bit of a hassle.  Do you get anything in the garage, or do you have metal in the roof?
The driveway?

 `Just a thought, but tomorrow we'll see!

[pbuilder]

Sounds like you have it where i put mine.

[gable74]

Well, i have a few issues now.  They removed the theftlock and everything worked good.  So i had him reprogram the AMP for a sierra denali and  i lost all audio.  He then tried escalade EXT. with no luck, then tried a regular denali XL with no luck.  So now i have Chimes, and no audio or Onstar, and no voice from the head unit.  The NAV is working fine and tracking fine, just have no audio at all.  I wonder if its because the AMP came from a hummer and he has no settings on his TECH2 for a hummer configuration.  He followed the Document exactly several times again and no luck.  Man this stinks.....do i have to get another AMP?  This one worked fine until he tried to reprogram the AMP.  Whats the deal?n  Any ideas?  I tried pulling the fuse, and cycling the key and nothing is working.

[sperry]

We didn't want to hear that! Talk about a glitch in the get-along.

 I would see what the hummer dealer can do; at worst, pull the amp and plug it into a hummer if you can, then reprog it. At least we know - although the hard way.

-OR- see what it'll do in another "luxury" truck or trailblazer.

 Amp's don't theft-lock, they just "need" the config, as you know. Chances are that'll restore it, if you can pur$uade them to do it.

 Murphy is everywhere...`Hope that helps..


Edit: BTW, when my Amp was new/prior to being "environment" programed, the Nav voice, RSA and OnStar worked normal. I had audio only in the RF Speaker.

[gable74]

well, when i pull the amp harness and put it back in i get audio from the right front speaker for about 1 second then it cuts off.  I dont understand why it would work fine, then lock up when trying to reprogram it.  It was sweet when he removed the theftlock cause it all worked great, then he tried to reprogram it and it crapped out.  I dont think i have the connections to put this thing in another vehicle especialy a hummer.  I dont know anyone that has one, much less let me try to install this one.  I think if i rolled up at a hummer dealer they would laugh at me if i tried to get them to programm my truck.  Im not sure what do now other than find another dealer and try again....or buy another AMP.  talk about a bump in the road....damn near a total roadblock.  I thought that a GM AMP was a GM AMP and it would take a program from a hummer or a cadillac.  Does it really matter what the AMP came from?  I mean your clearing the old program and installing a new one right?

[gable74]

I am guessing my next step is getting an AMP if I cant get this one programmed.  If anyone knows where i can pick up an AMP let me know.

[sperry]

Maybe pull it first and take it to them (the Hummer dealer). At least it should restore it. I would match it to a Hummer with OnStar, same HVAC and StWheel controls.

 There may be some shutdown from an error and that prevented the programming and op.. But that's grabbing at straws.

That makes me wonder about using the Hummer amp now... I thought it may be the cat's meow for the conversion from an HC6 (easier).  

[gable74]

I know what your saying but there aint no way in the world that a Hummer dealer is gonna take an AMP from me and install it, or let me install it in a hummer to "see what it does", or try to reset it.  It would cost me more money in their labor than it would to just buy a new AMP.  Im gonna try one other dealer today if i can....im hoping that maybe they were not setting it up correctly or something.  Although i was watching him and everything was just like the document said it would be......even got the "programming in process" and the "programming succesful" messages.  So im at a loss now.

[sperry]

..I thought you were "in" better with the Hummer dealer.. My mistake.

  Somehow, I wonder if there is an error detected, such as it's supposed to communicate with something now. Check for an error code generated that could give a clue. Didn't he check on that?

 Was the ign cycled as stated in the instructions, after the "programming complete"?

...Damn! I wish this didn't happen; I hate having to learn the hard way; whether someone else or myself!

[gable74]

There were no error codes in the head unit at all.  He did check all of that fairly well.  Like i said, it all worked fine until he tried to program the AMP as a sierra denali and got no audio at all.  Then he tried some other configs and got nothing at all.  Each time he got the "programming in process", and "programming complete" messages.  He cycles the IGN like it said to, but i cant help to think it has to be a programming error.  Should the radio be off when doing the programming?  Because it was on when he was trying the configs.  Im not 100% sure he had the key in IGN or ACC either.  Damn, i have annother appointment tomorrow morning with another dealer to try again.  At least this guy did not charge me, he felt bad cause we started off so well, then lost the audio and he couldnt figure out how.  I guess time will tell, i hate waiting like this knowing for about 5 minutes everything was fine, and if i would have just let it be, i would be in fat city now.

[sperry]

I wished I had a "GM radio Guru" contact; I have to make a call about my mic, I'll ask him if he knows someone. They were no help with mine when we needed it though.

 On or off, I believe all my stuff was on.

[gable74]

so everything is turned "ON" and the AMP is programmed.  After the AMP is programmed but before the key is cycled on and off, the Radio still does not have audio right?  Is that what your saying?  Then, when the key is switched off, then back on it works like it should, right?  The problem is sometimes these guys are in a hurry and you feel a little pressured...i hope i get a guy who will take his time with me tomorrow.

[sperry]

Ign on, engine off.

Procedures.

Exit the Tech 2

Cycle the key off then back to ign on.

That's when it should work.

Back to ACC. or where you want it.

I sure hope that it's a boo boo and you don't need another amp!~!

Another thought: Go to the audio menu in the HU, Turn off the AVC.
Cycle the power. If that's a no-go, Disconnect the mic and retry the power cycling.. (I'm grabbing at straws, so it's just an idea..)

By your description, it still sounds as if it powers up and finds an error somewhere, then does an amp shutdown. However I never heard of that happening....

[gable74]

yeah, i tried turning the AVC off, and disconecting the MIC too, and that didnt help.  Thanks for the suggestions but i fear my only hope is trying the programming again tomorrow.  I am to far now to give up, after the wiring changes and what not, if i have to buy an AMP, thats what i'll have to do i guess.  Didnt want to have to shell out several hundred dollars again, i hope tomorrow goes well.  Its wierd cause im getting the right front speaker thing like you did, but it only lasts a second then EVERYTHING shuts off, no audio or OnStar all.

[gable74]

I was told by a Stereo shop that there is a good chance they didnt have the newest software in their Tech2.  They also said that it has to be a progamming error cause it worked fine before you took it there other than the theftlock.  Unless the AMP went bad at the exact time of programming (doubtful), then it has to be a programming error.  I really hope i get someone with a some patience tomorrow that will work with me a little.

[sperry]

  At least you exhausted that idea..

  The shutoff is what gets me

 Your OnStar could be working ok and you don't know it..
In the "blind", call a local/cellphone (as if OnStar was responding). During the time it should be ringing or a connect (that you can't hear from what you're saying), turn up the volume control on your steering wheel. That certainly won't fix the amp but may be all that's wrong with OnStar; It could have set to zero during programming.
No wild goose chases intended, it's just that my OnStar and Nav voice worked prior to prog.
If that was successful or not for OnStar, we're only isolating things.
Did you say your Nav voice works?

It still sounds as if it is doing a shutdown for a fault. (The one second thing...)

Do you have rear-seat audio; is it working in the headphones?

[gable74]

no rear seat audio in my truck.  No NAV voice working either.  The only thing the AMP is doing now is generating a chime.  I dont know what could be making it fault and shut off.  I havent changed anything....and like i said it worked perfectly until he tried to load the sierra denali program into it.  Its like i had the diamond in my hand and then it fell into the sewer drain and  i couldnt find it.  Now im helpless because im so used to doing things myself.  I hate relying on GM guys, and having to work around their schedule....i wish they would just hand  me the tech2 and leave me alone for about 30 minutes.  The more i think about it the more i come to the conclusion that it has to be a programming error.  I just hate to play the waiting game, but i guess ive waited this long...whats another day?

[sperry]

Damn Chime; I wished it was the other way for you.

I also relate well to the do it yourself... And the playground... And the toys...

Well, another lesson. If it ain't broke, why fix it. Damned 20-02 hindsight.

And not only that, on a Friday....

[gable74]

another thing thats confusing me is the fact that this AMP came out of a hummer that had a 6 disk HU in it.  The chime in the 6 disk HU is generated in the HU not the AMP, but when i re-wired the AMP harness and plugged it in,  the chimes worked fine and were being generated from the AMP.  I wonder how it is that this AMP worked with a 6 disk HU AND worked with my NAV HU?  Why did i have him reprogram the stupid AMP?  Does the reprogramming of the AMP do anything at all to the BCM?  I just want to try and rule that out as a culprit if i can.  I tried to unplug the battery cable for a while to see if i could reset the BCM and anything else that may have needed to be reset but still no luck.  HU is fine......BCM should be fine.......i keep coming back to a bad program in the amp, thats all i can figure it can be.  How many speakers are there in the avalanche?  I think i will start with trying that as the first program tomorrow.

[pbuilder]

Jimmie
Don't worrie.  It's a programing error. Someone didn't know what he was doing.
Nothing wrong with amp.
You subs did not have nav in them to start with. If there is a nothe truck on that platform then you can use it. Programing the amp is easy if you know what to do.
they can print out a doc for it which gives the step by step instructions.
Hate to say it but the Humer would have worked and you would have never know the diffrence. to late now. If they cant find the doc. for it , the programing is the same as the av.
Steve and Anthony had programing problems as well. I have an second  amp which i had programed 2 weeks ago for an av. Not sure how the reat tweeddler work if the av dont have them.
I been wondering why the call them tweeddlers in tweeters.
Any ways I might be able to get it programed here for the sub.
i will try to email that doc to you later tonight.
Scott

[pbuilder]

ps don't beat yourself up over it.
It will work, its only a programing problem.
Because it was done wrong it has this problem.
the nav voice only work when you plot a place to go. that will work. onstar might
mine didnt and it might have been the volume think because it was distorted and low. them I didnt know I could change the volume of it.
IT will Work

[gable74]

thanks Scott, thats a relief.  I kinda thought the same thing, i just needed someone else to say it i guess.  I kept coming to the same conclusion because it all worked before, and when he tried to program it, it went belly up.  I have a document showing the setup for an avalanche, i guess its the same thing just that i would select a different vehicle.  Do you have another document, or is that the one you were refering to?

Hate to say it but the Humer would have worked and you would have never know the diffrence. to late now.

Oh, i have a Silverado not a suburban, but it is all the same vehicle really i guess.  Im really gonna be thorough with this guy tomorrow, and make sure we do it slowly and correctly.  I plan on leaving tomorrow with a working NAV unit!  Glad these guys work on Saturday over here, or i would really be going nuts.

[sperry]

Jimmy,
  Did you mention that the tech that hosed your unit didn't have Hummers in the menu of his Tech 2?
  I wonder if the tech's that are there tomorrow do? (If it matters?)

  ...Fingers crossed...

[pbuilder]

Have him set it up for a ext then it will work. cab size is the same. If not I can have it done for you.

[sperry]

`Wouldn't hurt to try but I believe they already did...

 I can imagine what he's going through; refine a little detail and it goes to hell...

[gable74]

the problem is these guys have the "It cant be done attitude".  They hussle through it and say "see, i told you".  Tomorrow, i will explain that it can, and has been done.  I will make sure the procedure is done correctly, step by step.  I believe the problem was he tried to program it a couple if different ways without cycling the IGN on and off between attempts.  I also believe that on some attempts he had the key on ACC and not IGN.  Like i said, the next time i will pay closer attention to the details.  I, like Scott said, believe it is all a programming issue.  Also, thanks for the programming offer Scott.  I guess if the bad gets worse, i can always send the AMP and some cash to you and have it programmed if that would be okay?  I dont think it will come to that though.  We will know soon enough.

[Arrivalblue]

You guys you got me to speed up my work, I have radio and antena installed, vss wire connected got brand new wire connectors for that and I have to tell you ( thanks Scott and Steve for help) it is nothing better then to see go the Golden chevy emblem come to the screen, I do not have sound, but I had to try to turn radio on, monday I will install Mic and Amp and get amp programed.
Hans

[pbuilder]

let me know

[sperry]

                                         

 .    .  .  . .. OK Hans, Now I'm pacing the floors again.. .  .   .    .

[pbuilder]

 

[sperry]

Hey Jimmiy, I hope that that amp didn't hickup in the programming because of no RSA. It shouldn't be a reason but I don't know of an install without it (yet).. Another straw to grab at...

[pbuilder]

nada wont matter
rsa doesnt care

[sperry]

 Like I said, `grabbin' at straws..
  However...
It has a module... Although it did work without it, will it program correctly in a vehicle that doesn't have the equipment, when every platform that was selected would have it?

 I too believe someone just didn't know how to program his amp.  

[pbuilder]

Should matter if there is a rsa in or not.
It realy has nothing to do with the amp.

Jimmie could add a rsa for fun.


Did you see the new H3 has the touch screen in it.

[sperry]

 That's slated for the `05's but I'll bet you can get them in the ordered `04 GM trucks now.
Something to check into...

 I wonder if the HU will retrofit in; the `05 trucks are supposed to still be the class II Data Bus - The cars are going to the CAN Bus.

 I can just imagine all the fingerprints on those touch screen Nav's!

[pbuilder]

I would think they would do the CAN bus on all, I cant see them using both in 05. talking about techs not know what to do just wait. they will be more clueless.
Kinda sad that we know little but more the them.
Just rember  YOU CAN'T DO THAT.  

Ya whatever GM

[gable74]

More bad news for me. .  I spent 2 hours at the dealer today with a tech who was extremely cooperative.  We went through that Document a dozen times...exactly the way it said to.  Everytime we did, it said "programming in process" and then "process complete".  It never worked.   We tried Denali, Yukon XL, Cadillac EXT, and even the regular cadillac.  Nothing worked....still no Audio or OnStar.  He even checked for software updates for me.  He did one other thing that was interesting....he checked his database for programming instructions and under "Radio Upgrades", it specificly said, "UM8 not service programmable".  WTF does that mean?  He even left the TECH2 with me for a half hour to try different things.  This AMP either needs to be programmed by a hummer dealer i guess, or i need to find me a different AMP.  I am getting very discouraged.....i had this thing working fine until that other stupid tech tried to program it for me.  If anyone has an AMP they wanna sell, or knows where i can get one,.....I'm alll ears.

[gable74]

you wouldnt happen to want to sell that AMP you have would you Scott?

[pbuilder]

check email

[gable74]

any ideas on what it could possibly be?  I cant think of any.  I hope that the BCM has not incurred any damage, but i doubt it as the external CD changer is operating correctly as well as memory features.  The Radio works with NAV and all of its features as well.  I gotta be honest, we did just about everything in the book trying to relearn this AMP and it did not work.  He even cleared all programs from the AMP then tried again.  I dont get it.  It kept saying procedure complete...but something wasnt taking the program correctly.  

[pbuilder]

I think it is a platform problem. I don't know of any truck platforms that have the amp i it.  

Stereo shop most likely will not have the tech II. they are 5k plus software. not cheep.
I dought most of them would know how to use one anyways.
Steve can tell you his long ordeal with his install with the pros that the dealer uses.  It can't be done  thats all we can do for you. are hands are tied behind our back. I felt for steve agervation and 5 or 6 months of waiting.

 

[sperry]

  Jimmy, at least talk to the Hummer dealer; they just may be as curious as you!

  If that amp is only used in the Hummers, and the other dealer's Tech2's don't have a Hummer on the menu, there may be a reason - a different flash code (or whatever they want to call it).

Simply restating,  if your amp isn't used in other GM vehicles, I'd follow up on that.

..If the platform ain't the same, so what, unless it won't take for some reason. At least you'll have an amp that sounds better, as you already heard! Just wire it up like a hummer and not worry about the acoustics.

Or, just pop for another amp! (`not trying to spend your money, but...)

         Re: Your "UM8 not service programable" question:
Edit: Jimmy, they're talking about the head unit itself. The Tech2 is just used for clearing the theftlock, some default configs and readings.
   This Head unit type would have to go to a service shop if it needed  to be diagnosed / repaired.
  Nothing to be concerned with, It's just who works on what.

[sperry]

Scott: I believe the Sierra Denali has it.

[gable74]

well the Hummer dealer has about a $100 per hour rate around here, with a one hour minimum.  Scott is gonna help me out with a trade up for my amp for relatively the same amount of money, so i would rather just do that and be sure.  Im in for about $2000 already...so whats another $100... .  Scott is really helping me out in a bind here and i cant thank him enough....i wore google out searching for this damn AMP.  I think you may be right though Steve, The tech2 had a listing for "Hummer" in the 2004 list, but there was nothing there except for "Microphone test" (which i failed).  There was no selection for "recalibrate" under the Hummer option.  It would seem that this AMP must have to be programmed by a Hummer dealer, or both me and this GM tech are just plain  , which is very possibly the case.  I still cant believe that i had it all working for 5 minutes and i lost it.  Man if i could go back in time about 16 hours i would be all set.  Well hopfully Scott and I can get this thing straightened out by the middle of the week or so, and i will have better news.

[pbuilder]

steve
 it has to do with his truck nothing to do with hummer. the amp needs to be programed for his truck when it his truck.
the AV should work ok.

[sperry]

`Can't thank him enough!
 That could better confirm the suspicions...
And BTW, was that a programmed amp? I guess you'll "no touchie" this time..!

Well, until then...
Good luck!

[sperry]

It's from a different platform than the other amps... Unless another GM product uses it, I'll hold to the possibility. Especially if the one you send him works in his truck as ours do.

I'll be suspicious of that amp version because Hummer's aren't in the Tech2 platform selections at the other dealers.

  In this case, I hope I'm proven wrong! What a hassle!

[gable74]

well, like i said i tried it all with what the GM tech had available.....maybe it can only be done by a Hummer dealer.  I do know for a fact that this AMP ran a 6 disk HU in the Hummer it came out of....and it also ran my NAV HU (for a while at least) in my truck.  So go figure....you are right though Steve, we may want to exclude this AMP from the list of definate candidates for NAV HU's and add it the  "will work, but dont program it" list.  Scott seems to have better connections than me for programming so he will have better results im sure.

[pbuilder]

the reason the tech II doesnt have it in it at that dealer is because they havent purchased the software yet for it. its about a gand a platform and if you do not expect to do work on that platform why spend the money. What every dealer does is diffrent and the tech II they have only has the software they have purchased.
thats one reason you might be able to go to one toyota dealer they might have it but it would be slim. unless the expect to do alot of work on chevy trucks or av or hummers then no point in spending the money. the amp is not made just for the hummer just because it came out of it. If Gm did that we couldnt aford to buy one.

Most electronic and mechanical part are used on several platforms to cut cost. there are thing that are hummer only and av only or cad only, but if everything was only for one platform, GM would be in the doghouse.

Point is cost.
the reason why it did work is it was already program for something.
some of the hummers have the same amp as we do acording tothe one i tak to on the hummer forum.
no need to worrie

[gable74]

Im not worried Scott....just impatient .  That makes a lot of sense though.  Because i went to "CHEVY" dealers, they might not have the correct software to do the programming on this AMP because Chevy doesnt have a vehicle with an up-level radio in it.  They dont have ANY vehicles with RPO code UM8 available.  Only Cadillac, GMC, and Hummer have it.  Had i went to a Cadillac or GMC dealer, they may have.  Hmmmmmm, well im not turning back now, ive already pulled the AMP out and put it in a box, so thats that.  

He did one other thing that was interesting....he checked his database for programming instructions, and under "Radio Upgrades", it specificly said, "UM8 not service programmable".

 

Maybe it said that because he did not have the correct software.  The puzzle continues.

[pbuilder]

I think you are missing what Iam saying.

Just because the amp came outof a hummer doesnt mean it will only program for a hummer.

your amp will program for anything that they put this type of amp in. the only reason we are able to do it is because the ext has it in it.
the UM8 does not get programed like the UC6 does.
For the UC6 to work with this amp they have to be program together.

Hummer has nothing to do with why it wouldnt program.

Is your truck a crew cab or a reg. cab or ext cab.

I dont believe any trucks of chevy or gmc  had this amp in it and that is the problem.
 If it came in a truck then you should have been able to program your amp.
 
This program will set the amp up as a AV  so if you dont have rear doors it will sound diffrent than the AV.
You might not ever know it.

[gable74]

No, i get what your saying exactly....thats what i meant when i said that CHEVY doesnt have this style AMP in any of their vehicles, which would stand to reason, they wouldnt have the software available for their TECH2 right?  Like you said before, why pay the money for that software if they never use it, and they would rarely use it because its not an option in ANY chevy vehicle.  What i meant was if i had gone to a Hummer, Cadillac or a GMC dealer, they would probably have the correct software to update the the AMP with because they DO have production vehicles using the NAV and UM8, where chevy does not.  So i believe you are correct in the fact that the tech today probably did everything correctly, but since his software was installing "UC6" as its up-level radio program (because thats the highest level audio you can get in a CHEVY), it wasnt working.  The GMC, Caddy, and Hummer up-level audio program would have been the UM8.  I think thats what you were trying to say before, and i didnt even think about it.  So yes, the AMP is actually just a shell waiting to be programmed, doesnt matter who does it as long as its done with software supporting the UM8 up-level audio.  If i ever need to get a reprogram done again...i sure as hell aint gonna take it to a chevy dealer...its going to GMC, or Cadillac

[pbuilder]

Jimmie

You are missing it.

they are not buying software just for the amp or hu.

the software package coves say H2, another cover H1, Another covers GTOs, another covers Avalanche only. it has nothing to do with the chevy dealer, the hummer and cad would have the same problem.
you would be where you are now even if you took it to the hummer dealer.


the UM8 does not  get programed for it is no programable and that is why it work when it was install after the theif code was cleared.
if you had a strip modle truck with a cassette deck and put the UC6 in, the UC6 would have to be programed for it to work.

If Iwant the UC6 installed with this amp it would have to be programed togther because they both get programed.

GMC trucks do not have this amp it it or you would have been able to do it. That is the key. no one else makes trucks.


Is your truck a crew cab or ext or reg.

[gable74]

my truck is a 4 door ext. cab.  Sorry, i was getting confused.  So what could they have done to make this work?  You say the problem is my truck, and because its a truck it will never work through programming alone if its inside my vehicle?  What i think your saying is the reason your AV's work is because there is a platform similiar to the AV which is the Cadillac EXT., and they come with the UM8...is that what your saying?  So the only way i can get this to work is like i did originally.....have the AMP programmed in another vehicle platform that supports the UM8, and then transfer the AMP to my truck.  That is essentially what happened with my amp....it was programmed originaly in a Hummer then transfered to my truck.  Am i getting it now?  

[pbuilder]

you almost have

the UM8 has nothing to do with.
this amp is the only amp that will work with the UM8.
this amp is an upgraded amp for thhighend cars, trucks,
the cady, the hummer, denali, have this amp with the UC6 6 disk hu.
This is the problem with your truck. the chevy and gmc trucks do not get this amp.
Since the cady ext got it, we are able to do it. other wise we would be still i think.

the hummer folks can just buy the UM8 and ant. and plug it in and have fun. they require nothing else. they alreadyhave the amp on the bose stock. the poopy amp we got will not go in a hummer for the factory. you get what you are ripped off for when you by a car.
is the ext worth 15k more than an Avalanche. no
have to justify it somehow.

Does this help

[gable74]

yup, now i got it.

the cady, the hummer, denali, have this amp with the UC6 6 disk hu.

didnt realize that, but it makes sense.  They get a much better sound from the UC6 than i do because they have the upgraded system where i do not.

[sperry]

Argh, OK, I'm back..I was wreseling my aux batts this afternoon.

Jimmie; Chevy DOES have a platform that supports the UM8; the only one (so far) in the TrailBlazer.

Scott; If it were the same part #, I'd agree totally; but it isn't. Physically, we see identical Y91 amps, but with those different P/N's, that's the uncertainty I have. When he saw a Hummer with a UC6 as well as another with a UM8.. OK; but the Hummer parts guy told him they only have one amp!

The GMC Sierra Denali has the Y91 amp but NOT the UM8 option; the GMC dealer I was working with said they drop in the INR in anything Denali, and some other models; therefore a close platform. The other's wouldn't work. This was while we were sorting out things, prior to mine working. The Yukon/XL - Denali's have the option.

I believe it's still a mystery until absolute facts are in front of us. We get told one thing from one dealer (tech) and another from another. Folks who read this thread are no doubt disinterested in my speculating and can't get good facts that way. Things worked well for us and we do have a lot of the information correct. Now, we have this problem that's inconvenient and I'm certain it will be resolved with your amp. So we learn that way. GM just isn't much help with the details were chasing or explaining, so let's just wait and see, then discuss it!

[pbuilder]

ok Steve

Rember one thing the amp did work in the truck once the unlock code was done. If it were hummer only it wouldn't have worked..
Rember the problems you had with yours and how simple it was to fix.
GMC make trucks and so does chevy. A trail blazer is not a truck. that is the problem. the Avalanche is as close to a truck as you can get but it still is not a truck. From what I have see the only reason we are able to program ours is because of the Ext.
heres an amp 15054675, does not match anything so far, have any idea if it will work. looks the same.
I know his amp will program in my Avalanche.
no diffrent than your UM8 with one digit off.
All the sudden you believe a parts guy about the amp, but did you believe the rest who told us this mode can't be done.
I am confused, how many time did your installer tell you it cant be done and he couldnt do it.
Have some faith.

the only reason bose made this programable is for the enviroment in which it will be placed in. If these part #s were made for certian models then there would be no need to program them. it could be done by bose and not changed. The above amp I have no idea what it came outof , but I know it will work.

we have the capability of conecting the rear tweeddlers up to our amps but they are not done that way in the ext. The ext should have been made with out the 4 channel output but no it just sit vacant.
Anther reason the are interchangeable.

Just my 2 cents

We have learn alot here and now were almost have 5 working.
a few with 6 disk changers. i believe the xm will plug and play also .


Have you found anyone at any dealer who knew what he was talking about with the upgrades.

me neither.

One reason why i did this install, all to say I have it and it can be done and maybe first to do it which I think I was. At least working

[pbuilder]

Oh

truck and trail blazer are 2 diffrent platforms.
the trail blazer was the first in the chevys to recieve the Um8.
Chevys are the bottom of the GM products.
Like I said its the amp confige that matters, not the HU.
the tahoes might have the Y91 opt. but not sure and still diffrent platform.

[gable74]

Absolutely Scott, i can tell you one thing.....as soon as i get this thing running (and i will cause im so close now) the first thing im going to do is drive back to my dealer and show him just how wrong he was.  The reason being is I have had it working 100% for a a couple of minutes, and with the 6 disk changer to boot.  I know what your saying about the platform issue Scott and the fact that you can program yours thanks to the EXT.  What im still not getting is what exactly is stopping me from getting the correct program into my AMP?  I have the correct AMP and its hooked up correctly, there is communication between the TECH2 and the AMP, why will it not take the program through my truck, but it will through your AV?  What your saying is if i put this AMP back into a hummer, Denali, or Escalade it will program correct, but why?  What is it about the platform of the truck that doesnt let the AMP get programmed correctly?  Is the wiring not the same?  Maybe there is something in the BCM or HU that wont allow them to be programmed together in a C/K truck platform?  Dont get me wrong, I agree with what your saying cause its been proven now in my truck....once the AMP has been programmed in the correct vehicle it will work in my truck, but i cant do the programming THROUGH my truck platform.  On another note...did you get that 6 disk changer i told you about?  That was the same model as mine....so i know it will work perfectly for you.

[pbuilder]

Jimmie

I waited to long on the six disk and someone did a buy now on it. There will be more.

The amp gets a program written for a truck, suv, car for the accoustics of it according to bose. The program sets up the amp for this and that is all it does. Any setup will work in yours or mine, but the cab is the same in your and mine and the EXT so it will sound the way it is supose to sound.

The software package in the tech II for your platform does not have the added amp software in it since it was not an option for the chevy or gmc trucks. that is it  It works in you truck after it is programed because it kind plug and play after the amp is setup. I could have take anybody amp that is doing this and programed it in my Av, put it back in theirs and it would work.  If the amp stays upplug to long it will loose the program. that might be a few week to a month or so I think from pass experience on one.

I have not tried to program the amp yet in my av a tell the scanner that it is a hmmer or denali, but I am going to check that out and see what it does  soon.

[gable74]

well its becoming more and more clear to me now, lets just hope that come tuesday or wednesday i will have mine up and running again.  I will be very anxious to see how you do with my AMP.  Hear anything more about the extra antenna i have?  Do you know anyone looking?  If not im throwing it out on Ebay sometime later today.


A wierd thing happened to me today, i took the truck up to the local car wash today.  This big a$$ 2003 Hummer drove in with 30" wheels and multi monitors mounted to every head rest and about 6 AMPs mounted in the rear.  I asked the guy if he had a NAV HU in that thing and he said yes.  I went over and took a look and it was an aftermarket NAV.  I asked the guy if he still had any of the factory equipment that came in it "LIKE THE AMP!".  He said yes, it was back at his house in a box.  I gave him my number and told him i would buy it from him.  Im still waiting for the phone to ring.

[sperry]

  That would be cool! Better yet if he gave it to you for cheap!
...Or to "test".

[pbuilder]

Hey Steve

Found some info on the amp outputsof this upgrade amp.
They are rated at 25w in a 4 ohm  oad or 40 in a 2 ohm load.


Which does mean we do have 240w
The sub gets 80w because it is a duel voice coil.
Each door gets 40w and the front tweeters are crossed over.

the EXTs get rear tweeters and the denalis get an added tweedler what ever the hell that is. I think I am going to try to find a part #for them.
the denalis have 40w x 8 =320w
I wonder why the escolade does not get the tweedlers and the denali does.

[sperry]

     I knew it was something like that.. But I thought Bozo liked to use 8 Ohm speakers? (Kinda dumb for auto stereo.  )

  If someone here has an EXT.. to answer this..
  Are these tweeters/twiddelers mounted on the ?pillars? or whatever their called, between the front & rear doors, or way back on the upper sides.

  If they're in the back, and the paneling is ordered, it may have a cutout for the EXT's back-up detector lights...

Thanx, Scott - It may not be a KiloWatt but it sure sounds better, even with the Bozo speakers!

[gable74]

So what is the speaker configuration in the AV's?  You guys are the same as me right?  I have 2 in the front Doors.....2 in the EXT cab Doors and 2 in the very front in the pillars by the windshield (tweeters i guess)......and i guess i have a Sub in the console right?  Is that the way you guys are set up as well?

[gable74]

By the way, i threw that antenna Module up on Ebay.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=38653&item=2470401679&sspagename=STRK%3AMESSE%3AIT

[pbuilder]

you have the same config

the twiddlers go in the rear pilar of the denali

[pbuilder]

the ext does not have them that i know of.

[Arrivalblue]

Hello Guys,
just finished exchange of the Amplifier, drop nav. disk in and drove around and is working fine,Done switching wires ( have Question)
C1 connector for UC6 has wire in B1 Radio mute and B2 RSA Enasig
fot the C1 for Y91 that is were MIC will connect, what did you do with those wires and what they work rear controls in console?
I have appointment for tuesday for programming, any advise what to look for? Will the rear controls work after programming?

Hans

[pbuilder]

back of HU you leave alone. at the amp is where the wires get switched and mic added.
you add the vss on c2 of the hu and that is it.

[sperry]

Hans, the RSA (earphones only) should work before programming the amp; mine did.

[Arrivalblue]

That is how I did it vss wire by HU as you guys told me. Also took the dash top off install antena. The wires I`m talking about are in connectors for amplifier, just as wire diagram I got from you shows. When I did unplug C1 connector from my amp has in B1 Gry/blk and in B2 ppl, those wires I na idea what to do with.

[Arrivalblue]

Steve did you connect the Mic or not jet? I just do not want screw something up. I like to have Mic connected, but shows connection right where are those others wires connected.

[pbuilder]

on the amp b1 b2 spot of c1. tape the wires you took out or put heat shrink on.

[Arrivalblue]

O.K Scott I will do it right now and I will be all ready for tuesday programming. Also funny thing was when I put disc in Nav. System for about 3 miles had problem with East West North South, showing me that I`m driving oposite way then I really was.  Now shows every thing o.k

[sperry]

Hans, the databus now controls the functions that were previously controlled by the wires that you're removing for the mic. That's why you just "cap em off".

Radio Mute (B1) and RSA Enable (B2) , are now mic (B1) and shield/drain (B2) on the Y91.

[Arrivalblue]

before I go back to garage to heat shrink wrap wires. I want thank you to clear this for me guys.

[gable74]

hey HANS, what i did was i had a few wires at the AMP C1 harness that i didnt use after the i finished rewiring it, so i cut the pins off and taped the wires back into the wire bundle.  When i got the Microphone, i ran a wire from the back of the drivers side console down to the AMP.  Then, soldered the pins i had cut off previously, to the new microphone wire and inserted them into the AMP harness where they go according to the schematic.  

Also, speaking of the "data bus wire", i confirmed that even though i have no "dimmer wire" connected, all my dimming functions are working perfectly.  I assume they are working now through the class II wire.  HU, console and 6 disk changer illumination all dimmed with the rest of the cab.

[gable74]

i know this is desperate, but i actually entertained the idea of taking a Denali for a "TEST RIDE" on saturday after my AMP wouldnt program....I mean hell, I've pulled this console apart so many times now i can do it in about 15 minutes tops.  Just swap out the Denali's AMP for mine and im done... .  Take back the truck and say "thanks but , im not ready to buy just yet".   Man Im sick.

[rab356]

Deperate circumstances call for Desperate measures.....

[Arrivalblue]

Now I`m ready for reprogamming, but have to wait till tuesday. All is set and installed, I cannot wait. Glad that you confirm dimming function I was little worry about it. I did not cut those connectors if for any reason I sell my truck I will put all to stock and take my nav.radio with me. I will let you know how everything went  after programming.

[sperry]

  Shame - Shame ; unless it's from the dealer that gacked yours!                                                                                        

[sperry]

Tuesday, Hans?
       Argh!

Did you call Tustin GMC? They might be able to do it sooner... Or is this someone you know?...

[Arrivalblue]

Steve I have to work Monday from 7 am to 6 pm, on Tuesday I will take couple hours off and go to GMC dealer ( my friend is service manager there ) I will keep my fingers crossed, I will be next to the technican when he will do the programming, as I asked is there anything I have to watch for when he will go by the document ID # 1129839 ? or all is just piece of cake?

[sperry]

 The ONLY item is the platform type "C/K"; he selects the Cadillac Escalade EXT, then continues. Make sure the key is cycled as stated.
It's a short process for the experienced Tech; just make sure no corners are cut.

Then, be prepared for the audio, you'll   it!

BTW, Hans, do you have audio in your Rt. front speaker now?
Edit: Also, voice from the Nav lady? OnStar (if you have it)?

[Pendlum]

I'm curious as to the programming of the amp. What if you got an amp from an EXT? Does the amp hold the programming indefinitely or does it clear it after so long of time?
I'm wondering if you get a brand new amp and radio, what will happen when you plug it in?
So when they program the amp, they just program the radio section right?

Suburban & Yukon XL = Escalade ESV
Avalanche & Crewcabs = Escalade EXT
Tahoe & Yukon = Escalade
Regular & Ext. Cabs = ?

Only works on Bose setup right? Has anyone tried Non-Bose?

[sperry]

Jason,
  Only time will tell about amps losing their wits; nothing so far. I accidently blew the fuse of my keep-alive battery when I bumped where a shock-sensor was and the flashers tried to fire. Afterwards I found that it dropped the settings, the HU came up with "Delphi" instead of the bowtie for that cycle. Nothing was lost with the amp programming; it worked normally.

 As far as programming goes, the HU just needs theftlock clearing; the amp has to configure and "wake up" with the programming.

  Platforms: That seems to be just in programming; as we found out with a Silverado and a Hummer amp. Similarities allowed it's operation but something is conflicting with programming it correctly and it died.

 I believe it's the # of speakers and the acoustics variations mainly. The amp works with almost all of it's control through the class II bus and no doubt has to know what's in the vehicle it's configuring to. Fortunately, platform similarity appears to work, but we hadn't "cleared the facts" about which HU and system can accept the changes. Only the UC6 changeout was tried at this point, to my awareness.
 We'll know soon about the Silverado and the programming issue. A local dealer had success with a tahoe and a (non-Denali) Yukon XL. I didn't ask them which HU was in them at first, but they both needed the amp changout.

[CraigF]

Sperry,

This thread is getting quite long.  Has any of the involved parties thought of putting together a clear cut "materials list" on what it takes to do this mod?  It looks like there are still some issues to be resolved.

BTW, this mod is well outside my budget, but it's very intriguing.  I'm sure others out there would jump at this if it was  a little more clear what was needed.  

Thanks!

Craig

[gable74]

Craig,
This is a pretty good estimate of money and material.  

Um8 NAV Head Unit----- #15204335,15204334--------------$1500
Nav Disk--------------- #15105609------------------------$200
GPS ant--------------- #15207447,15135178---------------$75
Mic--------------------#25705367------------------------$45
Amp------------------ #15199992,15199884,15112662-----$400
AUX harness---------- #15312903-------------------------$25
AUX CD changer-------#15055250-------------------------$180

All of these items will work with one another as far as we know, there are probably others as well.......the cd changer and harness option is up to you.  I went with the changer, and it worked perfectly.  There was no programming needed for the HU to recognize it, and i know for a fact that the HU did not have a changer in the vehicle it came out of.  These are approx. costs and they will vary from time to time.  The HU, AMP, and antenna are essentials it would seem.  

[CraigF]

gable74,  Thanks for the list.  

Are dealers able to sell these essential parts, or are you stuck with trying to find them--ebay, salvage yards, or pulls from upgraded systems?

[gable74]

everything is available from the dealer except the head unit.  Some will order it for you, some will not....its 50/50.  Everything else can be ordered from either the dealer or from www.gmpartsdirect.com.  There is a place called SPECMO RADIO that can get them for you with a 2-3 week delivery time.  Be persistant with them because they will ask you what its going in and how that wont work...etc etc.  Just tell them you dont care and you still want it.  The price they gave me was $1506.71 + shipping.  The number is 1-800-545-7910.

I realize its a big investment and not for everyone, but it is a really nice factory option, and will make your vehicle unique.  Not to mention the resale value if you want to sell it.  Good luck.

[CraigF]

Thanks for the info.  

[sperry]

CraigF,
 A list was posted earlier, but jummy's list helps distribute it and has the changer parts listed.

If you want to I can PM you with a member's name that had obtained the HU at a lower price. At this point, I don't want to blab it out until I get better details from him.

I can relate to the $$, you just bought a house!! Well, someday...

[gable74]

here are a couple of Ebay auctions....but the prices are rediculous....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38653&item=2469771454

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38653&item=2470278687

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38653&item=2470503249

[sperry]

  Wow! I really wonder if they know what a new one costs!

At least their disclaimers and details are ok.

[Arrivalblue]

Also if damage wire connectors can happen when you pull them out
GM #12020757   for 20-18 GA
GM  #12020758  for larger wire
If you have MAC`S Electronic around, they have them too # 20101J
Hans

[sperry]

Thanx for the info Hans; that's an item I keep forgetting to get the # of and add!

[Arrivalblue]

Steve I was just looking on wire diagram for wire changing and in B10 DK BLU  2272 Amplifier Class 2 Serial Data Do we need this
Hans

[gable74]

Yes Hans, you definately need that.   That is what will tell your AMP to turn on when the radio is turned on.  If you have the RSA controls you can pick it up from there.  If your like me, you have to pull it from the HU.  Didnt mean to jump in there for you Steve, but i feel im becoming knowledgable enough about this to help a few out and give the others a break..

[gable74]

Also hans, what you can do is use the "AMP turn on" wire.  You wont need that anymore anyway.  You can pop it out of the HU harness and solder it to the "class II" wire right there.....then pop it out of the AMP harness and into its correct spot in the connector.  This method just turns your old "amp turn on" wire into a new "classII" wire.   That way your wire wrap stays settled and looks clean.  You can always add in the wire if you want to run your own though, its up to you.

[CraigF]

You guys rock.  For me, an HDTV has higher priority than the OEM Nav.  At least I already have approval for that purchase.  

BTW, SPERRY, the house will be ready in Sept.  You can program your Nav system and head to my house for a GTG.  

[Arrivalblue]

O.K I have RSA controls what color of wire I tap in? Or connector possition is in? Good that I asked.
Thanks

[gable74]

should be pin "A1" on the RSA harness or the HU harness, both are the same spot....it will be Light Blue on the RSA harness and orange on the HU harness i believe.  Circuit 2288

[sperry]

Craig, Ha!
  I'm still waiting for the "right one" too many HDTV's with no internal ATSC tuners. "Drooling" over the ones with them, but I have to have one that'll fit a motor coach for when I retire.. I'm not a plasma fan. `Been in St. Louis a while back. My Boss is from there too..

Hans,
 You shouldn't have to touch a thing in the RSA, a working RSA before the amp is programmed, is normal...
 
Edit: OK, I see what you are talking about; I don't have the DATA-Link breakdown but mine worked the last time I tried it. Just check it after you reprogram it. The circuit numbers are different. No touchie if it works! If it doesn't we'll need to pull that print too and see. (Maybe get a print anyway...)
 

[Arrivalblue]

Right on it is LT BLU in A1
finishing connection right now
Thanks

[Arrivalblue]

Steve that was on Amplifier wiring harrness conector C1 has B10 location with DK BLU wire Amplifier Class 2 Serial Data I was asking if needs to be connected. Jimmy said that that is what turn Amp on.
Do you have this connection on yours?

[sperry]

  It used to be a tan wire; it does need the data wire there. The old system had a seperate amp turn-on; the new one uses the class II data on that wire. I don't show it on the Xref because that was mainly for the speakers. If Scott could show up, he could pull his notes (knowing him, his memory!) and confirm it. I don't remember any wire that had to be ran seperately. A dark blue one should be there (not a speaker wire!).  #2272.

[gable74]

Steve my DOC shows a light blue wire at the RSA harness pin "A1" being the class II wire that he needs.  Or like I said you can use the one coming from the HU harness which is orange, and it is also pin "A1".  Either way you definately need the class II wire, and it will need to be hooked to pin "B10" at the AMP harness.

[sperry]

Absolutely!
 I just don't have the doc in front of me; I'm at work...

[Arrivalblue]

I just check it with ALLDATA and all those wires from RSA - LT BLUE
XM - LT GREEN, AMPLIFIER - DK BLUE, CD - TAN and more all goes to splice pack #SP 207. Now my Amp is connected to that splice too.

[gable74]

well those of us on the East coast are off work already

[CraigF]

Craig, Ha!
  I'm still waiting for the "right one" too many HDTV's with no internal ATSC tuners. "Drooling" over the ones with them, but I have to have one that'll fit a motor coach for when I retire.. I'm not a plasma fan. `Been in St. Louis a while back. My Boss is from there too..

Not to take this thread off topic, but I'm going with the Mitsubish WS-55413.  It doesn't have an integrated ATSC tuner, but that's OK as we are also going to get the Hughes HR10-250-- DirecTV HD w/Tivo.  

[Arrivalblue]

Thanks Guys, just cannot wait having a fever you know

[sperry]

Craig,
 That's cool; Mitsi's look just fine; they're just a bit fussy on NTSC Sync - not very tolerant if it's not 140 IRE (Tech jargon). But then again, that won't be a problem in a few years!

Hans,
  Yep! there's a wad of them, each having a different circuit number for their destination or source. Kinda like the VSS - wires comin' & goin' to a lot of modules.
  I need to ad that to the speaker wiring X-Ref doc. It's original intention was just the speakers. It should be all the amp's connections!


Edit: A typo...

[sperry]

well those of us on the East coast are off work already

Yeah, but we get to sleep in!  

[pbuilder]

You guys on the east coast in bed yet. we still have a few hours to go yet.  Gee what shall we do.

[sperry]

Hey! Look who showed up!

[gable74]

You guys on the east coast in bed yet. we still have a few hours to go yet.  Gee what shall we do.

i have a suggestion....how about getting a certain amp progammed up?    just messin with ya Scott

[sperry]

Damn! Talk about pacing the floors! Jimmy waiting for the amp and Hans for tomorrow's programming... Geesh

[gable74]

It will be a happy day in Jimmie's house when he gets back up and running............Again

[pbuilder]

Gee I wonder what it wil cost me if I put a amp on ebay

Say for 1000.00   its almost programed   any bidders

[gable74]

Gee I wonder what it wil cost me if I put a amp on ebay

Say for 1000.00   its almost programed   any bidders

Ahhh, okay, i see how its gonna be.  Jimmie sends AMP in mail.......... Scott puts AMP on EBAY...........Jimmie's AMP "gets lost in the mail".........Scott makes a few hundred bucks.

Ive seen that movie before....but in the end, someone always ends up disappearing.....hmmmmmmm   dont make me send Steve over there to get you!

[pbuilder]

Oh dam you know where I live

[pbuilder]

When you hear your amp singing and the the nav woman comes on and says turn lert in a 1/4 , then she says this amp will self distruck in 30 sec.

You will be think Hu 8)mmer

[sperry]

Argh! I tried to haggle my insurance co into covering the INR; 1st $1000.00: included. $48 for 2K more (6Mo.) I asked them "why is there no difference what radio type is in a Cadillac, but there is in a Chevy!!" "No that's not it", "It wasn't in the original vehicle sales contract". But my aftermarket HR & visor displays and the dvd player was, and they're covered!!  

 So, at least buy the parts when you buy new!

[pbuilder]

I think I would find new Ins. Maybe I should check with mine. I was took as long as it was in the factory spot you are ok maybe not. Thought your was part of the deal.

[sperry]

Yeah, I like these folks but I like another company too! Maybe things will change if I can get them to compete about it. This company would cover the entire vehicle replacement if needed, within 1 year of age. Since that expired on the 28th, maybe I'll call in for a quote from the other guy. `Just doesn't seem fair...

[sperry]

 It was, but instead, they contracted it out/wrote it up seperately! The aftermarket stuff, they included in the original sales contract! They didn't believe that there would be any difference!   Otherwise, they're a really good dealer.
 My fault that it's way too late/waited too long to change it.  

[gable74]

When you hear your amp singing and the the nav woman comes on and says turn lert in a 1/4 , then she says this amp will self distruck in 30 sec.

You will be think Hu 8)mmer

LMAO

[awaken96]

im likeing the new pioneerr nav/dvd/backup unit. if this could be installed with the factory sound system ud get alot more features than just the GM nav unit

[gable74]

hey, look at what i just did!
Plus im going to pick it up.....no shipping!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=38647&item=2470733160&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT

[sperry]

  Edited for quote.

im likeing the new pioneerr nav/dvd/backup unit. if this could be installed with the factory sound system ud get alot more features than just the GM nav unit

  That's well known.
 Some of us want the factory look and put forth the effort to maintain it. To me the aftermarket systems just conflict with the Av's interior look. If I was looking for a used truck, I would prefer a stock look setup.
 
  Initially, I wanted to have it within my regular insurance policy; it turned out that because of a stupid detail in contracts, and the delays blew that strategy upside down.

 The "factory" retrofit Nav equipment works just fine and sounds much better than the UC6 system; one can add aftermarket amps if they wish, with a simple adapter. Personally, I don't find the need for the entire ground shaking.   Once these systems "we install" are better documented, installation will become increasingly easier for others who prefer "factory" units, to install them.

  Personally, I'm just not a fan of flip-out screens. They also bump the shifter, so it's another thing to have to otherwise unnecessarily mod, or shut off the folding.

  Besides, I like to be rather unique in my tastes; so far only a few of us have them. If it was more common, or available as an option in `03's & `04's, it would just be taken for gra

I'm not interested in installing and removing systems at the rate new products show up; there's too much to keep up with and the funds are better spent elsewhere. Functionally, this nav has all I need and I don't have to clean fingerprints off the screen after each use!

 I've had too many disappointments with automotive aftermarket gear; they always seem to have more user or performance issues than stock eq.. Whether it's a crappy tuner or a fit problem or whatever, it'll find me. I've just grown too aprehensive of them. I had to go through several DVD players to find the proper (practical) operation that I wanted; at least that one's OK..
(For now.)

  On the positive note, I like Pioneer home equipment and this auto system is downright georgous and feature-packed; despite the fit and factory look and general aftermarket product issues I have a concern with, If I had an `02 - I wouldn't hesitate at the first opportunity to install it if I was starting all over. But that's because the "factory" UM8 won't work in them.
 
...It's just nice to have the choice.

[sperry]

Good find Jimmy! Don't get tangled up in that DC beltway traffic!