2nd Cad Nav in the Av - In & Working! PART 1

[sperry]

Good info... I must have mixed you up with another (my aging mind... )
If you have both the amp's available, keep everything open and talk them into programming both on one ticket - allowing for a battery and amp disconnect / reconnect of course. They may want to know too, if they both work or not, at least we'll know..

[gable74]

I do not have both available....just the one #15199884.  I will fart around a little this weekend with it, but i fear i wont know for sure until i get it programmed.  I was just trying to avoid the wasted trip.  The other amp i referenced in the last post was a quote from a parts guy.  I called requesting a price in the #15199992 and he told me they were using a replacement, the replacement was the #15114445.  

[gable74]

Okay, just got off the phone with the HUmmer parts guy (the only one that would actually talk to me).  He told me that he only lists 1 AMP that is used in the hummer.  1 AMP for ANY HU in the hummer.  I explained that I had a NAV HU and i wanted to be sure this would work with it and he said it should, because he didnt list any other AMPs available for a Hummer.  He also said that that AMP has been replaced with a new but equal part #15112662.  So, #15199884 (mine) and #15112662 are the same AMP and are compatible with any HU that comes in a hummer.  Good news?  Not sure, but at least i might be a little closer.  So does this mean that this AMP will work for both the 6 disk indash HU (UC6) and the NAV HU (UM8)?  Maybe.

[sperry]

 That would be interesting! Although I like the new amp; `sounds a lot cleaner.

The UC6 HU uses an amp turn-on for it's paired amp; the UM8/Y91 uses the data bus. The chime circuit is in the HC6 HU but in the UM8's amp. But no doubt there are configuration work-arounds, redundancies or not...

 Stay tuned to this station for further announcements...

[gable74]

Okay, so my plan tomorrow is to do a little wiring in the AMP harness and see what i can see.  What are the odds that if this AMP "IS" compatible, that i will have some sort of audio or anything?  My fear is that i will get the harness changed around and i will still have nothing, and even if everything is done correctly, i still will not know until its programmed.  What im starting to believe is its going to be a big game of "cross your fingers" when and if i go to the dealer for a reprogram.  Does that sound right?  Is there anyone who did this MOD and it worked when they were done before they went to the dealer for a program?  I know you still have to go to get it customized, but maybe have some sort of audio before that?

[sperry]

 Audio: If you un-theftlocked the HU already, and the amp was from another vehicle instead of new, there's a fair chance it'll work. If you only have audio in the Rt. front speaker, normal   chime function (and OnStar if you have it), It will just need programming. You should have it checked whether it works or not because the Hummer speaker config may have been different and there may be error codes that you need to clear.

NAV: Presuming that the head unit is theftlock-cleared, and with the VSS wire connected and the GPS antenna connected, etc.,you get a very slow pointer/map response, don't be alarmed. Slowly it "trains" and improves over several miles driven. Drive around a while until it appears to nav ok, then take it in for the programming and code clearing. You may want to "negotiate" this when you pay for clearing the theftlock.

[gable74]

well, i know the AMP was out of a Hummer that was pulled out of it the next day after it was purchased.  The HU is out of a Hummer as well, jut not the same one.  I was told that the BCM will have to be programmed to use the new HU and AMP.  The HU will send the correct signals to the BCM to turn on the AMP and start up, but if the BCM doesnt know what to do with the signal it wont work.  Thats what one person told me, so im not sure.  I will give it a go tomorrow, any secrets for removing the pins on the harness before i get started?

[sperry]

I believe the BCM holds a "table" of the connected/configured modules. It's getting the config info when the amp does. No connection needs to be made to the GM system computer unless maybe a HU unlock, if at all. Only an updated TechII programmer is needed for the amp; just follow the doc instructions and set the "platform type c/k" for as close as description of vehicle platform as you have, that is a luxury version. (Silverado=Sierra Denali,  Avalanche=Escalade EXT, Suburban = Yukon XL Denali or Escalade ESV and so-on....) Most of that is the number of speakers & acoustic setup.

We did mine exactly by the document, selected Escalade EXT, cycled the key and it worked the first time.

[gable74]

thats some promising info!  Well, i will get to some wiring tomorrow and i will update you with my progress.  thanks very much for the help.  If you have any hints as to popping the pins out of the harness, im all ears.  Im sure i can do it fine, but there is always someone who has done it before that can usually pass some hints along.   I will let you know how i do.

[sperry]

If you don't have a pin extractor, try a needle or a safety pin. When you go to a dealer parts dept.,see if they have pins and an extractor. A handy tool!

[gable74]

Well, i would just like to say hell yes!  I wired everything up and did the pre-install (just sat the radio and AMP in, not completely installed yet) and it works like a charm.  Followed the schematic, and the AMP wiring changes and BINGO!  Turned the key on ACC and got the theftlock like i always do, and then i just unplugged the harness and plugged it back in while keeping the key in ACC position and it came up as usual....only this time i had perfect audio!  At least it sounded perfect....im sure it needs to be programmed to my vehicle, but by itself it sounds better than the old amp.  I am pretty excited now, all  i have to do is a little more tearing apart of the console to get the AMP secured and im done!  im going to get some PICs of it while its still open.  I will touch base soon.

[gable74]

Okay, everything is back together and looks great!  I am taking her in on tuesday to get reprogrammed and unlocked.  If there is not an option on the tech2 for "sierra denali", which is the closest to my vehicle (silverado ext cab)?  Will the cadillac EXT. work okay?  Also i have three wires that i need help with.  The first one is on the 24 pin AMP harness....there are 2 drain wires on the UM8 harness where on the UC6 there is only one.  I hooked up the "bare" drain wire where it was supposed to go but the other one is "LT Green/BLK", and all i have are "BARE" drain wires.  So i left that one out.  Second, is the Noise reduction mic supply voltage.....i dont have this yet but im looking for a place to get it.  Lastly is the VSS wire coming from the instrument cluster....there are 2 "DRK green/wht" wires in the instrument cluster harness, and  i dont know which one to connect to, or where it plugs into in the radio harness, any help with that would be great.
Oh, and when i go to get this programmed on tuesday, is there an option in the programming that will let me select an AUX cd changer?  I plan on putting one in real soon, but im not sure if it will recognize the changer from class II data wire like it did the AMP or if i need to program it to see it.  The HU came from a hummer, which doesnt have a AUX cd changer option, thats why i ask.   A lot of info here so let me summerize....

1. drain wire issue
2. mic supply line
3. Vss wire (how to find it and where to hook it up)
4. AUX CD changer program?

[gable74]

Almost forgot....Add these AMP #'s to the definate NAV HU Compatible AMP list...cause now I am sure...


#15199884
#15199992
#15114445
#15112662

[gable74]

I just talked to the guy who sold me the AMP....The hummer that this AMP came out of had a factory 6 disk HU.  Hmmmmmm, that makes things interesting HUH?  This AMP will run both systems.  

[sperry]

Jimmy,
If they program it without the changer, it may need to be prog'd again when you install it. Ask them if they have a way to manually put that selection in; I hadn't tried it since I didn't bother with the changer; Scott did.
 He may also know if it'll sense that it's there and operate after all, but I doubt it unless it was programmed that way. The Tech will likely see error codes with it missing like: B2203, B2403, U1154, U1155 and the most likely U2003 Code:"Audio Compact Disk / Disk Jockey Unit is Not Responding". If it shows that code, the HU was programmed for it.

The "DrkGrn/White" wire for circuit #817 (VSS) is pin "A4" on the back of your cluster. That's the closest physical tap point. It comes from the PCM and distributes all over the place. Your wire can join with it. Remove that contact and solder the wire end with the other one. Electrically it's the same as it would be at the block.

Remember, if you drive around for a while without it, then connect it, you'll think you gacked it. The Nav operation gets very sluggish and can take up to a minute or two to update, gradually getting better. It'll surely be full of error codes too. You just may need to do some  follow-up programming when that's all done. Meanwhile, it'll work without it anyway; it's just a little smoother with it.

Interesting how much better that amp sounds, eh!

[sperry]

 The "drain" wire' I would believe would be for any shielded wiring. If you don't get any alt whine the shielding and grounding should be ok. You may want to run that past Scott (pbuilder); find out what he did. Use an Ohmmeter; it may just be a chassis connection.

The mic isn't necessary; I still didn't get mine in yet. Look for the AVC on-off setting in the audio menu and just shut it off for now.

[gable74]

The "DrkGrn/White" wire for circuit #817 (VSS) is pin "A4" on the back of your cluster. That's the closest physical tap point. It comes from the PCM and distributes all over the place. Your wire can join with it. Remove that contact and solder the wire end with the other one. Electrically it's the same as it would be at the block.

One of my schematics you sent me shows it being connected to pin "E" of the 12 way AUX harness on the back of the HU, is that right?  You say Pin "A4" on the back of the instrument cluster is my "VSS" wire?  So pin "A4" of the instrument cluster conects to pin "E" of the AUX HU harness correct?  

Another thing, you say my radio may be full of error codes when it gets programmed.  Where will these error codes pop up?  Will they pop up during the programming?

The other drain wire i referenced as not having, i found the answer to.  Its actually part of the mic harness that i have not hooked up yet (and you say you have not yet either).  There are 2 wires that connect that MIC to the AMP.  One is the +voltage wire and the other is a drain wire, so thats where that comes from.  

I have repeatedly tried to get a hold of Scott (Pbuilder) but he must be busy....cause i wanted to ask him some questions about programming for a future AUX changer.  I have the changer, i just need to make the cable to connect the HU to it.  If i can pick up a 9 pin patch cable from the dealer i can make it myself.  I just dont think i can do it by tuesday when i have it programmed.  So i wanted to see if they could program for it even if it was not there.

[sperry]

Hmmm, print 1248651 shows that; on connector 2. but the cluster print shows row B, #4 of connector 1 of the HU; That latter one should be empty at present. That's the one we connected to.
It may be common inside the HU but I remember when looking at mine the other connector (C2-E) had something in that location.

He can check error codes before & after the programming but if I was doing it, I'd clear them first.
I'm going to do a follow-up soon to see if there are any showing again in mine, just to be sure.
The error codes show when he selects to view them; they're just (supposedly) stored as they occur, whether there's a fatal or incidental fault. They stay until they're cleared or something weird happens...
`Don't know the VSS - to Nav error code..

 I don't have the changer, so it shouldn't be a problem; you may want to follow-up when all is settled and installed anyway. Deal with them on the cost. Some dealer's are so interested in them that if you help them (such as showing them the programming instruction print that supposedly didn't exist), they'll just do it out of curiousity. Other's aren't interested and yet there's some that "know all about it and do it all the time"; "That'll be $71.00"!!! (Like hell they do, been-there-done that.)

I thought so. Things that need a shield or need to be grounded...

[gable74]

Hmmm, print 1248651 shows that; on connector 2. but the cluster print shows row B, #4 of connector 1 of the HU; That latter one should be empty at present. That's the one we connected to.
It may be common inside the HU but I remember when looking at mine the other connector (C2-E) had something in that location.

Okay, so pin "A4" of the instrument cluster harness to pin "B4" of the 24 way HU harness?  I will do that first thing tomorrow.  Thanks.

[gable74]

well, im still not sure on the wire points for the VSS yet, so when someone has a minute, can they post the pins i need to connect to.  I just need to verify that this is correct.....
 
Pin "A4" from the instrument cluster harness, to Pin "B4" of the NAV HU 24 Pin harness.  Correct?

On another note, i decided to put that part off and go looking for the 2 harnesses i need to install the 6 disk changer.  I need the 9 pin for the changer and the 12 pin for the HU....or at least some spare pins to solder to and install in the factory 12 pin harness.  As one would expect, the couple of stereo shops (i wont name names) had no idea what i was talking about, much less tell me any place to get them.  Most even said, they dont make them.  I said what are you talking about?  They are easily ordered off the net, im just trying to get them a little faster than having to wait for delivery.  Still they insisted i didnt know what i was talking about... .  Are we that much more advanced at what we are doing here than stereo shops out there that do it for a living?  So i scrapped that idea too, and will wait till tomorrow to get what i need from the parts dept. at the dealer.  I did get one thing accomplished though, i got the 6 disk changer fitted into my dash real nice.  It took a little cutting and trimming here and there, but it looks real nice....best of  all, IT LOOKS FACTORY NICE.   Well, it looks like i may have to postpone programming a few days if i cant find the parts i need from the dealer tomorrow.  I will keep you all posted.  Here is a pic of the 6 disk installed in the my console.  You can compare it to the one i posted a few replies back to see the difference.

[sperry]

Jimmy,
 You shouldn't have any trouble at the dealer getting the connector & pins; my parts "contact" stocks them- I presume your should. You have the print & part numbers... A little tape and loom - you're in!
 
 I hope the prints give you enough info.

 There are professional stereo shops and there are (ahem) you know the type..
 But there seems to be only a few that have the knowledge you are looking for. Someone here used the phrase "Deer in the headlights look". Well, just move on!
Find who your dealer contracts with and start there.

 I saw a post from Scott today, so I would say he has the first-hand at the changer setup..
HTH!, Steve

Edit: BTW, the mount looks really clean!
 I wonder what your dealer will think when you take in in next time?

[gable74]

Thanks Steve....it was a little hairy making the cut, but as soft as that plastic was.....a nice straight line and a sharp razor knife did the trick just fine.  If anyone is going to attempt this, the key is to leave 3/16" of an inch of plactic inside the cup.  In other words, measure from the face into the cup 3/16" and draw your line around the entire inside of the cup.  Then start scoring the line real soft at first until you got a groove cut, then keep scoring the line until your throught the plastic.  I started with 5/16", and had to trim it to 3/16" to make it fit smooth.  I talked to Scott the other day via PM, and he has not gotten the changer done yet, so it looks like im venturing into no-mans land now.....very exciting.  So, my plan tomorrow is to pick up some stuff......

Nav antenna

Nav MIC.

9 pin to 9 pin slave cable...and cut one end off

pins for the 12 pin HU harness....(anyone got a part number for these pins...or should they know?)

I will keep you all posted on my progress.  Still looking for verification for that VSS wire.

[sperry]

 I thought you had done the vss wire..
That was my connection points.
PM Scott and see what his take is..

I have a pic of the connector but not the part #. I hate to admit it, I never posted one in a thread on this board; nothing in the help showed me how to upload them!!   Looks like only from a url. (img command.) And I don't have my own web page. (Had a BBS once...never again!!)

I believe the mic is for other systems using the Y91 "Luxury" system. "Nav" mic may confuse them. Maybe: "Mic for the noise-cancelling in the Luxury audio system" I'd mount it at the rear of the console, above  or close to the RSA control panel, available to the noises at the center of the cab.

The hummer nav antenna bracket looked different than mine but it was the same part number! Go figure...

[gable74]

i have a part number for the connector...its #12064799.  But that is just the connector, i will need the pins that go inside of it......i was looking for a part number for this pins.  They will probably know what im talking about. 

I know we went over it a bunch of times, but sometimes i can be really dense .  I was trying to make sure what you were telling me was this.........

VSS wire =
pin "A4" of the instrument cluster harness connects to pin "B4" of the HU 24 pin harness.  Correct?
EDIT on 4-16-05: This is INCORRECT, a GM documentation error. HU Connector 2, "E" is the correct radio end! Sperry

these are the part numbers i have for the items i mentioned if anyone can confirm this....
GPS ant---------------------------#15207447
Mic----------------------------------#25705367
AUX 9 pin harness-------------- #15312903
12 way HU AUX connector-----#12064799 (not sure the part # for the pins that go inside)


Edit: Correction in retrospect.

[gable74]

just wanted to post a few pics of the install for others to see.