2nd Cad Nav in the Av - In & Working! PART 2

[sperry]

Code:

This thread is now PART 2 of this the original thread linked below

2nd Cad Nav in the Av - In & Working! PART 1


From what I gather, no. He has a good job as an automotive electrican and made no offer of such, even with navigation discussion. If they were copies, he wouldn't take that risk.

If my name could cash other's checks that share it, I would have fame & fortune from their "talents".

Besides, what's wrong with selling Nav disks on EBay? Unless they're copies - and that won't last long when the Fed's catch up with him.

OEM disks are expensive, and they offer you one free upgrade anyway! (OEM Eq if you get it as an RPO).

But this is becoming somewhat defending and scorning.

If he sells Legit Nav disks on Ebay, more power to him IMO. As long as they are the same item that folks save $$ on by buying from him, I'll take that as a good thing.

[BCS]

I guess if you are ok with someone obtaining information from you and then turning around and selling it as their own..I saw on GM trucks where he was wanting you to make sure his info was good...once its good, expect to see it on ebay

[avarchitect]

Well, the first things I would like to do is say THANK YOU to all who are keeping this forum going - I have just finished the last touch on my 2003 Nav installation - I now have a factory INR Navigation radio, Factory In-Dash CD Changer (Slave) and Factory XMand Factory Y91 "Luxury" Amp.  What an amazing system - the display for the XM is great, the sound is clear and I mean "BOSE" clear, the Nav has no trouble keeping up with my driving habits and after seeing a Jeep Grand's Nav system jump on and off the interstate to side streets several times while driving I am impressed at how well the system keeps track of my every move.  I would like to thank Sperry for all of his assists and of course all those who help track down the little details that make this mod possible.  I just thought I would add some of my experiences in hope to help the next person.

I purchased my radio used from Ebay (was in a 2003 H2) and can as a package with the slave CD Changer included.  I purchased my antenna and mic from GM Parts Direct.  The one thing that I had to deal with that I have not seen cover too much on this forum is the Theftlock function of this radio.  At the suggestion of Sperry, I installed everything into the truck and then went to work on the theftlock to see if it could be bypassed for a while until I could get the dealer to clear it.  Sperry suggested removing the fuse - the fuse for the radio is listed in the large fuse block under the hood - if memory serves me correct it was a 15 amp pink fuse located on the lower right as you are standing on the drivers side looking at the box.  I pulled the fuse and then turned the truck to ACC with the fuse still out - after a couple of seconds I replaced the fuse and the radio turned on with no problems and had every function.  However the second the key is turned to try to start the engine the radio activites the theftlock function and displays "Theftlock Engaged" on the screen - I was unable to pull the fuse and start the engine and then replace it and get it to work - so I was not able to test the Nav function of the radio until I went to the dealer to get the code cleared.  For anyone waiting to test everything before getting the code cleared just use the method listed above however don't expect it to work with the engine running.

I thought I would list a couple of small pictures to show off the install - it is sweet look and I have already had several people ask me about the install - one of which was the dealership owner - tried to get my code cleared for free but he didn't want to go for that...

[avarchitect]

I think I have seen everything on the function of the radio posted in some form or matter but I am not too sure I have every seen anyone list the XM in use so here is a picture of one (how in th world did I ever live with one line of text??)

[duramaxHD]

avarchitect--- That looks awesome!!! great job with the mod. It seems as if we all finally have the kinks of this install worked out (thanks in large part to members like sperry) and that your install went trouble free. Couple questions though... Did you get the Y91 amp new or off of ebay? If it was off of ebay, do you remember what kind of vehicle it came out of? Did you run into problems programming it at all? (it generally seems as though success in the amp area is hit or miss) Have you reprogrammed the DSP in the amp to fit the Avy? (eg... programmed it to think its in a Escalade EXT) Overall, it looks factory stock!! great job

---ben

[avarchitect]

I purchased the amp off of Ebay also - the amp came out of an H2 and is #15188044 which I was told there was some questions about it working with the system - the Tech at the dealership and myself had a very intense conversation before he started (the advise of the dealership owner) and he told me that he was postive that he could get it to program without any problems.  We cleared the VIN Theftlock within a couple of minutes, so we moved on to the amp - I should state that the amp sounded great without any programming and I am pretty positive that all of the speakers were working on the AV - the amp connected and programmed without error, the only thing I can figure after reading where some people were having problems with the H2 amps, my entire system - HU, Changer, amp and changer harness all came out of an H2 and so they might have just match right or something.  I don't know.  After programming, I didn't really appear to achieve any extra sound advantanges from programming the amp - sounded just the same as it did before it was programmed.

[sperry]

The theftlock bypass is by no means perfect, but it helps one sort out things before a trip to the dealer.

Yep, some dealers want your $$ for a quick process. But they have to pay for those $2800 Tech II's somehow.

I hope he didn't pop you for an hour. Most have a ½ Hr minimum.

The tracking isn't foolproof. All GPS' that I had with a moving map - Garmin, Delphi, etc will at times jump over to a side street or a frontage road. They get a reflection or something that causes a minor propagation time delay, the system's try to correct and "lock" onto an ajacent road. Sooner or later you will see this happen.

Now you are another that can "testify" about the sound improvement!

On your success!

[sperry]

I guess if you are ok with someone obtaining information from you and then turning around and selling it as their own..I saw on GM trucks where he was wanting you to make sure his info was good...once its good, expect to see it on ebay

Any "Joe" can do that, this one didn't, there wasn't enough info for that to date and the "timing" isn't something I can see a pattern with.. AND, I don't deal much at all with the DVD's. That's a part I have to get in the same manner as other's would. If I had that type of contact, I wouldn't still be using an outdated one! Warn people on EBay! Why not! I don't deal there after I almost lost my A$$ on a deal they Wouldn't "control". So I stay clear of EBay.

It appears you really have a problem with this person; I cannot help you with that; it's your own issue. Not one for here (or should I say me, anyway). There are far worse folks than that to worry about!

Back to other things, what was the technical issue you had anyway

[BCS]

Ok I am not saying he is selling DVDs illegal, I am saying he is obtaining the info on how to do this mod, putting a manual together to show the steps, and then selling it....Hence why he wanted you to "review" his steps...Yeah I have a problem with it as he tried to sell it to a friend of mine before I pointed him to the right forum where people like you are helping for free..

He is selling brand new version 3.0 disks on ebay, which is fine with me..I dont know how he gets 100's of them to sell, but thats not my business....He also sales the nav units off of ebay saying they came out of his escalade even though he does not have a escalade...

but again, i wouldnt help a person who is taking my info and trying to make money off of it..this is a community for us to help each other, not to make a profit!

[sperry]

OK, but I do help folks that do make a living doing this too. Only I receive info from them in trade. Since a lot of my info is obtained from those who do, I can't complain about it myself. The "tips & techniques" are from many sources that are retailers. If I were to track that ethic that you apparently perceive as unethical, I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face.
I receive confirmations and part numbers from them too.
We all benefit that way, as I see it.

Most who receive info from others and myself here are better prepared to purchase the correct equipment from the very people who assist us, & V-V.

Who are really to take blame are retailers who present products at a reduced rate, charge an exorbitant amount to ship them, and won't take them back if they're incorrect - even if that vendor said "use this one" themselves!

However, I do appreciate the concern and alert. Although if someone isn't resourceful enough to find info provided here, by other members and myself and want to pay for it instead, I can't help that. But if anyone wants to take the time to compile, present and publish the info, they should have their effort rewarded anyway. If they make a $million, disburse it to other's if they feel it's in order.

 I'm set well enough to not worry about my part. That's why I personally have no concern; no niche to "protect" here. But that's me, other's may be bothered with it and I can't speak for them.

So, can we return to the topic of this post?

[kdag]

I have a 04 gmc seirra without the y91 option code and im trying to put in a touch screen navigation radio. i bought the instructions from jp customs for 49.00 and i was thinking it was more than a peice of wire and a splice connector. i have a touch screen radio 10377287 i bought off ebay and antenna module i got off gm parts direct. ive added the wire from my instrment cluster to the 12pin connector and when i hook the radio up nothing happens. i also borrowed the tech 2 tool and went to vin relaern and it gave an error message of no communication. i also accidently won a auction of a non touch screen nav radio p/n 15204334 and i pluged it in and the theftlock came on so i reset and i got very little sound and no volume control and i am assuming this is due to the amps incompatibility. would anyone know how the used radio responds if when you first plug it in, does the theftlock screen appear ? I am assuming i was sold a radio that was bad. i also am looking for the schematic for the rearragement of the pins for a lux model amp, because its looking like i am going to be stuck using that one. also anyone know he part number of the amp i should use. Thanks for all of the help

[sperry]

The 4334 is an early Luxury only HU. It won't work in your "premium" system, as it is, with the "dumb" amp.

I e-mailed you the wiring X-Ref changes.. for a luxury amp.

The 15199992 amp was replaced with another number, that should cross to it's newer replacement by a parts dealer, for the new one.

The TNR sounds defective;  it IS the one for the NON-Luxury (premium) system. Consult with one of the service centers. (Search) Model Electronics (East Coast), Specmo (MI) and AER (SoCal).

I hope you can "exchange" it or if PayPal'd, contest that it's bad. Whatever works..

The NAV antenna will work for either one.

[duramaxHD]

Maybe this question is not QUITE right for this thread, but since I will be adding it to my "future" TNR/Y91, I thought I'd ask... Browsing the PAC website I became intrigued with the AUX-POD (or iPOD2CAR as its called now). However, it says on the bottom:

"Note: The iPOD2CAR will only work stand alone. If the vehicle has a separate CD changer, XM or cassette player, it will have to be disconnected in order for the iPOD2CAR to work. Exceptions are for 2003-2004 GM vehicles without XM, the iPOD2CAR will work together with the factory 6 disc CD changer."

AHHHHH!!! so am I reading this correctly in that it will not work if you have XM or the (escalade/denali) external 6 disc CDX???!!?        Right now my Silverado has XM, the UC6 (the HU with integrated 6 CDX) and the "dumb" Bose speaker system. My plan of upgrading to a Y91 amp and TNR would require me to put in an external (Escalade/Denali) CDX because i would still really like to be able to listen to CD's without taking out the NAV disc.  I could live without XM if i had the 6 disc CDX, and I could live without the CDX if I had XM, but is PAC really telling me I cannot have either with the AUX-POD??? Does anyone know a way around this? There are so many amazing things aftermarket companies (especially PAC)have done to "upgrade" the capabilities of the GM A/V equipment...it seems wierd that they could not get around this problem.   I mean...with the TNR and Y91, everything runs on the Class II data bus, so whats the big deal about putting one more 'thing' in the chain??? Having a TNR, XM, CDX, Y91 amp, and the iPod interface all at the same time would be the ultimate audio solution!!! (provided I work every free second i get off from school to make enough $$$ for it )

thanks everyone---- Ben

[sperry]

There may be a way with a multi-pole double-throw switch or relay but I would need more info on the adapter. If I remember the next time I talk to Brett, I'll ask him...

They would normally focus on an ease of use and install. Adding a multi-pole switch would complicate matters for most folks.

I suspect the compatability is that it "loads" down the audio bus instead of just switching out... But I'd still have to look and inquire.

[sperry]

*NON-BOSE NAV*

Rumor has it that there is a GM/Delphi Nav radio for the NON-Bose systems.

As best I can gather, this is the possible P/N: 10351123

We will look into this..!

[Arrivalblue]

Hi guys,
I cannot believe how many posts are here from the time Steve and Scott were helping me to install navigation system. I still think that this is the best mod you can do. It is nice to see that we love our trucks and do this up date. Steve did you install the back up camera to your radio as you told me on Ca GTG?
I do have the interface installed, just I`m not sure about camera what you will be using?

[sperry]

It's in & working. Bought the camera from Raiderdude (cheepie but doesn't look cheap). I posted the pic's of the camera mounting here somewhere...

The PAC module works well. I had to hang my own relay on it. Someone said they come with them now.

You can switch the relay by tapping a wire at the BCM (Lt green back-up lamp power) It's off of connector 5 (The small black connector on the right).

And of course if you want the backup cam only slaved to reverse, the backup light wire in the trailer harness. (Lt. Green).

[sperry]

`Found the pic.

The bracket is just 2" aluminum strap from Home Depot.

[Arrivalblue]

I put my unit next to navigation radio, grounded to the brace under dash and hooked wire for power to glove box light ( it is working RAP wire ) unit turns of after aprox 10 min.
Same as radio and all accesories. Blue wire will trigger picture on navigation radio as you said. Right now I need camera, yours looks great who is the manufacturer? I did see some in micro alarm catalog for about $100 and less, what should  look for on the camera. Also where did you locate yours on truck?

[sperry]

This isn't the finished result and a bit dark, but you get the idea. A rather common spot.

[sperry]

The side holes are for security torx (or allen) countersunk 10X24 (or 10X32) screws. Since, I had smoothed, primed, painted and mounted it.

I just have to remember to get that pic!

[Pendlum]

*NON-BOSE NAV*

Rumor has it that there is a GM/Delphi Nav radio for the NON-Bose systems.

As best I can gather, this is the possible P/N: 10351123

We will look into this..!

Looked into this part number and it's from the Buick Rendevou (sp?). The buick has the Bose system and it has a separate amp, so it looks like this part number is still the Bose Nav, but for a buick. Still needs the amp

I'm still looking.

Hey, just wanted to let everyone know that if you're looking to do this upgrade and are missing a few pieces to the puzzle, we'll be happy to provide you with the missing links. We sell the complete packages, but we also sell the individual parts.
Just email us or call us if we can help.

kdag - if you're having problems with your NAV radios from ebay, give me a call. We may be able to get it repaired for you.

[nota4re]

I think the new touch-screen NAV comes in two flavors.  10377531 is the part number for the unit compatible with the Lux-amp models and 10377287 is the part number for the non-lux amp compatible unit.

I'm guessing, here.  Please wait until someone confirms.

[sperry]

We're well aware of those #'s but thanks.

I found the number Jason was refering to posted on another board as one for the NON-Bose systems. It wouldn't work on either the premium or luxury systems, if it was such a fact. That's why we're investigating it. So the folks without the Bose would encounter a far less hassle.

His initial "report", however, comes back as just another HU. In this case for a Rendezvous..

[midwest kid]

  Wow!!!! This thread is amazing and very informative! Im attempting my own project. im gonna post details as soon as i get started and have all my stuff. Hopefully this one goes well! Does anyone happen to have a complete wiring pinout for the y91 Nav unit for both the 12 & 24 pin connector as well as the Bose Lux Amp (8 & 24 Pin connectors). I wanna study the diagrams to figure out how im going to do this. Thanks and great work guys!!!

[sperry]

Yes, I did a cross-ref chart in MS-Word. It messes up in other WP's so `hope you have it!

BTW, to the club!

You will need to unzip this, but click on the link to D/L it.

Edit: Cleaned up the link... Replaced old file with updates that reflect changes to the RSA  wiring, instead of just the amp.
Changed the link - again! 3-10-05

[92coop]

Hey all,
newbie to the forum, thanks in advance for the info.
I have an 03 sub without y91 package.
I purchased the following:
hu p/n 15108241
xm tuner and antenna module p/n 22692861
gps antenna p/n 15135178

I think all of this will just work with installing, and then taking to chevy to remove theftlock.
What I (believe) am missing is the wiring harness that goes between the nav unit and the xm tuner. Does anyone have a p/n for this, and input into what I am going to have setup (if it will work or do I need anything else).

Thanks again!!

[sperry]

That cable was integrated into the wiring if the option was OEM-ordered XM.

You may want to try JP Customs and see if they have the retrofit cable. It's part of the retrofit OEM kits.

I don't have my more "complete" list of equipment here at work.. The # sounds familiar.

[92coop]

I talked to jpcustoms and they dont sell the cable out of their $399 kit by itself.
I also decided to switch from the INR unit to a 2005 TNR unit and since I have a soundgate piogm1 for xm currently I called them to find out if it will work with a new tnr unit, they said no. So I will have to switch to the sirius kngm1 which does work with the tnr. That kinds sucks cause I like xm talk shows. I think I might fm modulate xm and digital connect sirius and try both.
Any suggestions? YOU DA MAN SPERRY (the guy knows it all!!!)

[sperry]

There's a member thad did make up a cable, but I keep forgetting who!

I think it's one of the NorCal group....

It's a 16-pin connector but I didn't see info on it.. I'll take another look.
The other end is easy.

Is it a single antenna unit (10333560)? You'll need to match the antenna. You can with a SkyFi antenna if you don't have a factory one. Just specify single or dual.

[sperry]

Here's the connector "info" as what they provide... (I always get messed up trying to find this, they call it by "Digital Radio Receiver" instead of XM.)

And I found this doc in my files..



Connector Part Information
   
The Micro64 XM connector is GM part number 15394150.

The pins with leads attached can be bought in a kit that has 10 pins/leads, and a pin extractor from SPX Corporation, part number J-38125-64SPL for about $3.  See Techlink Archive PDF



Micro 64 Repairs

Electrical terminals continue to become smaller. The new Delphi Packard Micro 64 connector system is the next evolution in densely packed electrical connections. Bulletin 01-08-45-006 contains information about repairing circuits equipped with the new Micro 64terminal. It’s used in the Powertrain Control Module connectors on 2002 Chevrolet Cavalier, Pontiac Sunfire and Grand Am, and Oldsmobile Alero, as well as the new XM radio on 2002 Cadillac models.

You can obtain a Micro 64 terminal package, J-38125-64SPL, from Kent-Moore. It includes a terminal pick, ten pre-terminated leads, and ten wire splices, which can be installed using the existing crimper from your Terminal Repair kit.You can order refills for any terminal in the J-38125 Terminal Repair Kit from Kent-Moore. Additional storage bins, replacement tools and complete replacement trays are also available by calling 1.800.GMTOOLS.

Note: There is more than one supplier of .64 terminals, and each has its own characteristics. The new Cadillac CTS uses a Bosch engine controller and has Bosch .64 terminals.

HTH!!

Edit: fixed link.

[midwest kid]

Sperry, can you post the 24 & 12 pin pinout for actual connectors that plug into the Nav Unit? Are they same as if there was a normal GM CD Player in the dash? Oh yeah, anyone have a part number for that 12 Pin connector?   Thanks again.

[flyingdutchman]

  Please correct me if I am wrong.I will be attemping to install a Touch Screen Nav into my 2004 ESV  UQ7 with Y91.  On radio connector C2  I should look  at pin E to see if  I have a DK GRN/WHT wire which would be the VSS signal to help smooth out the display. If not I need to install a pin into E  and tap into the IPC A4 pin DK GRN/WHT  to pick up the VSS. From what I read (and it's alot) is this  correct? Also would somebody know the part # for the pins ? Thanks in advance

[sperry]

You're right with the info you gathered so far. It's highly likely the ESV has that connection. You should ONLY have to add the GPS antenna. But it's good to check for the VSS connection anyway. Hopefully your harness isn't tight. If so, you may as well remove the dash top to get to it. You need to access the GPS antenna mounting anyway. (PM me if you didn't find that location drawing).

If you had the older J/S nav prior, all you need is to R&R the head units if the TNR is brand new. But remember to eject the old unit's DVD first! Unless you obtained an updated one of course...

If you had no nav unit prior, you can just "Ohm" it out to see if it's actually connected to the VSS.

[sperry]

I posted it somewhere here on the board. May have been my door chime mute post.

These numbers are older ones:
Connector terminals:  GM  #12020757  for 20-18 GA
                                   GM  #12020758  for larger wire
I believe the smaller wire number crosses to a bag of ten now. The other number no longer shows. The bag is under $10 and most dealers can get it usually in a couple of days if they don't already have them.

HTH!

[sperry]

Sperry, can you post the 24 & 12 pin pinout for actual connectors that plug into the Nav Unit? Are they same as if there was a normal GM CD Player in the dash? Oh yeah, anyone have a part number for that 12 Pin connector?   Thanks again.

Yes, but it's better if I format the clip for posting first. Remind me later if you don't see them posted soon.

The aux CDX (audio) doesn't connect there directly (OEM). It connects to SP 250 splice pack connector that's atop the glove box! Electrically, you can however, connect it to the 12-pin.

[92coop]

sperry, in reply to  your post : "Here's the connector "info" as what they provide... (I always get messed up trying to find this, they call it by "Digital Radio Receiver" instead of XM.)

And I found this doc in my files.."

So I am gathering that you recommend to buy the gm terminal, and the kit from spx and splice it myself.
I have a couple of questions regarding this project.
1) I am not sure where the xm unit goes in my non-oem xm suburban z71. do you have a drawing or an article that helps with this. I am assuming that there is currently no wiring harness at the location where the oem-xm unit is supposed to be. I want to put it in the original location since the xm unit I bought has the original antena and by the length of the antenna cable it looks like the xm unit needs to be mounted somewhere in the roof/overhead.
2) after question 1 is answered and the answer is that definitely I have no hidden harness that will just plug into the xm unit, should I just buy wire and run it (neatly) where it is supposed to go (to the unit) or will the kit from spx bring the wire needed..etc.
3) I have called soundgate who make the interfaces and they advised that the xm unit will not work with the tnr at all because it is coded to the original vehicle (which they have tested). I dont think this is true and I think my project will work but I want those who really know to advise.

[sperry]

1)     I'll locate it and post it. You need a bracket that it clips to and holds the XM box. It mounts behind the Glove box.
Look at the chart, that's the connector block P/N from GM. The terminal kit is as you found. You need to make the harness up so it fits to the oem connection points. That will be the hardest, since you will be gathering & reading what info you collected while your `burb dash is in pieces. Measure the antenna placement from another similar truck. It's two holes.

2) I hadn't ordered the SPX kit - mine was an OEM unit. Another member did but I just can't remember who that was.
From what I see, the wires that they had pre-attached to the tremonal pins are too short for your needs. Get a pack of 22 to 24 Gu wire near, or the same ins. color as the chart indicates for each wire, some heat shrink, solder, etc. Loom it and tape it up.

3) That's unexpected information from them. I too have trouble with that statment; it doesn't add up. Other's here have installed swapped out units. The only fact I hadn't confirmed is the necessity of the XM unit's original install VIN information; you may need that. These XM units work "flawlessly" with a TNR or INR; their statement is just plain wrong in that respect.
 
You may need this:

Digital Radio Receiver Setup

Important

The Digital Radio Receiver Setup option does not contain a submenu. Digital Radio Receiver Setup will configure the following systems:

    * DTCs
    * Class 2 radio messages

For the Digital Radio Receiver, complete the following procedure with the key in the ON position, use a scan tool in order to properly set up communication:

1. At the Main Menu screen, select Diagnostics.
2. At the Vehicle Identification screen, select the following options:
3. Model Year
4. Vehicle Line
5. At the System Selection Menu screen, select Body.
6. At the Vehicle Identification screen, select the following:
7. Platform Type
8. Body Type
9. At the Body screen, select Digital Radio Receiver.
10. Select Special Functions.
11. At the Special Functions screen, select DRR Setup.

XM Activation

      Important

      After replacement of an XM Radio receiver, call XM Radio to deactivate the receiver that has been removed from the vehicle and activate the new XM Radio receiver.

1. The vehicle must be parked in view of a satellite within 24 hours after an activation call.
2. Turn the radio on, tune to the XM channel 0, and record the Radio ID.
3. The Radio ID will be needed for activation of the new receiver. Call XM Radio at 1-800-556-3600 to deactivate the faulty receiver and activate the new receiver.
4. Park the vehicle outside in an area with an unobstructed view of the southern sky.
5. Leave the vehicle outside with the ignition switch in the ACC (accessory) position and the radio on for 30 minutes to activate XM service.
6. Once activated the radio will receive the remaining XM Radio channels.

Document ID# 992921

[sperry]

(1)   Instrument Panel (I/P)
(2)   Vehicle Communication Interface Module (VCIM)
(3)   Cellular Antenna Coax
(4)   VCIM Connectors
(5)   Navigation Antenna Coax
(6)     Digital Radio Receiver (U2K/U2L)

[flyingdutchman]

Sperry thanks for the quick reply. The combo I have in the ESV now is U1S (in dash 6-disc) and the UB1 (AM/FM/CD/CASSETTE) I have picked up a TNR#10377531, GPS antenna and 3.0 Disc. I will be removing the dash top to install the antenna. I would like to pick your brain again in regards to the following:

1) The reason you need the VSS signal combined with the signal from the GPS antenna is to smooth out the moving postion shown on the screen and to have a up to date location of where you are.  If you do not have a VSS signal, your position would only be acquired from the GPS antenna, which would cause jerky movement on the screen and not have a updated location of where you are.

2) What do you mean by you can just "Ohm" it out to see if it's actually connected to the VSS?  What scale on the ohm meter? Black tip to ground, Red tip to PIN E? If I show resistence then I have the VSS circuit? What position if any does the ignition have to be in. Ex: ACC/ON/or ON engine running?

3) According to the shop manual, PIN E is not used. If on PIN E there is a different color wire and it doesn't "Ohm out" do I cut it or just tap into it?

4) Once everything is installed I can put ignition in ACC position, remove radio fuse, reinstall fuse, which would allow me to see if radio functions. If I try to start engine Theft-lock will appear.  

5) New part # 12089649 replaces  #12020757  for 20-18 GA
 

Thanks again for taking your time to "enlighten me"  I am hoping to install all this over the weekend and wanted to be prepared for what I might find once I open everything up. I have appointment with dealer on 12/30 to remove theft-lock.

[sperry]

`Shows here...



However that still doesn't mean it's there or not.

"Ohm it", Not check for voltages or shorts to ground. No power, in fact, disconnect the batt if you're poking around in there. You should only have to reset your clock... maybe other minor stuff, at all.

Put your ohmmeter to R X1, clip one end to the cluster A4 and the other to the HU connector 2 "E" (if the wire is physically there) And see if the connection exists (Maybe 1 or 2 Ohm's, if not less..) If the wire isn't physically there, of course then you just add it...

That terminal # I had but it was in the back of my truck. I thought I wrote the sub'd # down somewhere. Fortunately, they found it for you.

Edit: Missed an answer..

[92coop]

sperry,
thanks for all the great detail. i have one question before i start wiring: i have a picture of the gps antenna and where it is supposed to go, but i cannot tell from the picture where it goes. which is the front and back of the dash??
thanks for all your help.

[sperry]

The lower right is the front of the vehicle. Look closely around the middle, you'll see the drawing of the rear of the radio HU.

The arrow is pointing to the front of the vehicle.

Edit: Rephrased a statement to not sound so insulting!  

[nota4re]

Well, the GPS antenna finally arrived today and I installed the 7531 TNR in my '05 Denali this afternoon.  With the dash removed, I did find that GM has, in fact, now included the VSS wire in the connector going to the HU.  I have to find a dealer tomorrow with a Tech2 and a few minutes to get the VIN programmed.

[sperry]

Call it a "Theftlock clear".. Hopefully they have a ½Hr min. or less. If they want an hour labor, they're ripping you.

Good to hear the wire is there in the Denali. Now to see if it is in an Escalade ESV, which I would believe is present.

Let us know how it works out!...

[3782steveo]

Ok, I've been watching this topic for about a month now. I have a 2004 Silverado SS I'll be putting a 7287 TNR headunit in as soon as it gets here. How difficult is it to pull the dash top and install the GPS antenna? I believe I understand the vss wire from the dash cluster to the headunit, that doesn't look too difficult, just not too sure about yanking the dash top off.

Thanks,
Steve

[sperry]

 Sometimes the dash top is necessary just to remove the connectors from the rear of the head unit. Some pull the HVAC controls to access them, and that's that. But whether you can get it out easily or not, the dash top removal is mainly for the correct GPS antenna mounting (as you see drawn above) and second for connecting an optional OEM aux audio device (correctly) to SP250, which is above the glove box.

The VSS wire can be "fed" through the rear of the cluster cavity right side, and easily over to the radio C2. No top removal is necessary.

[3782steveo]

So, how difficult is it to remove the dash top?

[sperry]

OK, this may get tricky for you but I can post the document, but PKZip destroys the .gif's when it compresses or extracts them. So, I can't post a 7-zip compressed extension here, which utility apparently handles the gif's ok.

Solution (Actually a work-around) apparently works, but is a bit klutzy...

I place the 7Z archive in the zip archive. It apparently works.

You will need to find a file archive site; 7-Zip is usually available (shareware)

Use winzip or pkzip and extract the 7z file inside it to a temp directory.

Install 7-Zip you hopefully found it and run 7Zfm.exe for extracting both the .htm file and directory.

The .htm file should bring up your browser to view & print the dash removal instructions.

 Whew! Good luck. I'll try to post the document but one pic per post takes some doing..

[3782steveo]

Got it all unzipped, and un "7zipped" perfectly. Thanks so much. I can't tell you how much this helps.

Thanks again,
Steve

[sperry]

Fortunately, you had the savvy!

[Avialanche]

Sperry,   I'm gonna install a Luxury TNR with Y91 amp and a single disc CD/DVD/TV Tuner unit in lower portion of the center stack.       I have a 04 2500 with XM, Onstar,  stock Bose (premium) 6 disc in-dash changer,   build date is 03/04,   will the av already have the VSS wire for the TNR already installed?       Can i get the correct harness for the Y91 amp from the dealer,   or just modify the one i have,  if so do i need a tool to unlock the pins from the connector,       or should i just cut and splice the wires?    I don't have MS Word perfect, so i can't use zip file you posted somwhere about the wiring diagram for rewiring the amp harness for the Y91 upgrade,    is there another option for downloading the rewiring info?.  I do have the Factory service manuals for 2004 SUV/SUT's,   but not 05's,        BTW i do have the PAC audio adaptor for the DVD/CD player.                               

[sperry]

It's MS Word, not Word Perfect - that's a different product.
I'll try to check if open office will save that as a PDF. Possibly it will but I need to see if it will maintain the lines as formatted.

A very small shaft screwdriver will extract the pins. See the images in my post here:
http://64.91.234.154/cafcna/index.php/topic,37477.50.html

Look at reply # 5, (and others before & after..) same method.

The harness would be from an EXT, but you would have to disassemble a lot of interior parts to R&R it. The wiring changes at the amp are not that difficult, once you have the reference chart. Carry it to someone that has MS word and a printer; you need it that printout.

If you're a bit apprehensive, you're not the only one. Just read what info you can and print out the images you see (they do expand out for a clean print). and find someone that can print that doc. If I shrink it for a screen capture, it doesn't turn out well, so a PDF may work.
Microsoft may still have WordView as a free download, that may work too.

The VSS wire is easy. My first time was.
3 Head unit screws and four cluster screws (7MM head, torque them back @ 18 in pounds.) Not likely you have it already.

Unless they banjo-stringed the connections at the rear of your HU, it should not be a problem. If that adapter is a PAC GM12 accessory aux input device, you will need to change it's power connector  wire to either battery + or the BCM's RAP source. You can cut the wire at "E" of C2 and tap it if you wish for the VSS wire, since it goes nowhere else in your truck. The adapter provides the connection so it will work with the Lux vehicles or the 05's (they have it in the harness to the connector). run the other end over to the cluster A4. Tap that wire for the VSS.

If you don't have the adapter's power moved from the connection on the HU, it may be distorted during RAP (depending where it was connected). There is another connection on the HU that will work but it's best to connect it to the RAP source.

The reason is that the UC6 (6-disk HU) in the premium sound system, supplied an AMP "Turn-On" for the dumb amp. The Luxury system doesn't power up the amp with that method. It uses the Class II data bus to do that..  The PAC adapter is usually connected to that amp turn-on, so you see why it won't work. I chased my tail for a while to correct mine because of this change,

The adapter draws only 9 milliamps, so it would take a while to run a battery down, but you can connect it to a constant (fused) batt + source also.

Confused? take your time and read things over. Then revisit this reply with doc's printed out. You don't have to be a master electronics expert to do this, and you'll love the result. (Plus you'll know how to help the next guy..)

HTH!

[dsrour]

Sperry, amp# 15188044  from 04 H2 seems to work w/o reprogram w/ INR.
You mentioned there were a few changes to harness schematics from the original posting.
Are they online somewhere.
Question on drain wire just to be sure I'm doing it right, when going from C to B you would have to change terminal right? Also sound quality is good for instrumental music although the singer seems less prominent. any sugestions? Thanks

[sperry]

There are combo's from 04 H2's that will work. The problem is the mid year changes. One example is the INR head unit from late H2's that year. Apparently they are a NON-Lux unit (15108421). Do you have the 334 or 335 INR?

The amp you mentioned, I don't have a cross for.
 
Where is your midrange eq setting? Do you have it on "Spacious" profile?

[sperry]

You just move it over as you said. Same circuit #, just a different assigned position.

That's the right side sub winding.+

What is the date at the bottom of your copy of the X-Ref doc?

[dsrour]

Thanks. I bought the HU new. INR lux version and the O44 on ebay. I used the diagrams posted by Linda early on maybe 6 months ago on GM-truck.com.

So when you move drain wire from the C connector on amp to the B you need to put on a smaller terminal. Just want to make sure I'm looking at the right thing since this wasnt mentioned.
I played w/ the midrange and had it on spacious, singer seems less prominent, other music good quality and everything seems to work

[dsrour]

looked it up on GM-Truck and it was in september linda posted the harness change diagram

[sperry]

OK, I don't know if jimmy has my latest one ot not. Does yours show a splice on the drain jumper? 2099 & 2011 (C2-E, C1-12) of the old way to  both connecting to (C1-B7) new way.

[dsrour]

No it doesnt show splice says move from C to B7

[sperry]

C to B7?

Hmmmm..

D/L this updated one. You need somthing to unzip it with. (7-Zip or winzip)

[sperry]

I can only presume that you have MS-Word 97 or newer.. And a zip extractor..

[dsrour]

Yes I do!

[sperry]

Cool!

For those of you who don't have it, this should display/print it, but not edit the doc:

(Microsoft) MS WordView Free Download page.

Edit: Bolded the link.

[dsrour]

Was there an attach

Cool!

For those of you who don't have it, this should display/print it, but not edit the doc:

(Microsoft) MS WordView Free Download page.

ment?

[sperry]

If you refer to my last post, just click on the blue text and it'll take you to Microsoft where one can download a viewer if they don't have Word. (Whether they do or not) It's free. I'll highlight & underline the link. It is a bit faint..

That's all...

[dsrour]

Got it! Thanks. I'm going out to garage now. 

[sperry]

Don't freeze! 

[dsrour]

Got heat. Its 22degrees in the Peoples Republic of Maryland now.

[sperry]

((((Shiver))))

You're not that far from Jimmy (Linda) are you?

[sperry]

BTW, you mentioned "C3" The amps with a third connector are Envoy/Trailblazer/Rendexvoux/Axtec/Bravada.. What vehicle do you have?

[dsrour]

 I have an O4 Yukon XL. Th 'C' I was talking about is the smaller of the two plugs that go into amp referring to the pinouts. I made the changes in the updated schematic. Looks like only change is drain wires. What is a "drain" btw.
Still sounds funny mainly voice in songs sounds muted. Think a reprogram will fix this?
So Linda is a guy?
Thanks for your late xmas nite advice.

[sperry]

Yep..! I think it's (Jimmy's) GF or wife's name...

He's Gable74 here if I remember. `Has a Silverado HD 8100

OK, I didn't want to send you on a wild goose chase with those connections.
The grounds were a problem on the Sierra PU's. For some reason there was a motorboating effect it those trucks if that ground (drain) wasn't there.

OK, try to roll the balance over from center, either way, and see if there is a change in level or fidelity - other than what you would expect.

If so, there's a speaker polarity problem with one or more of your speakers. There's some phase-cancelling if so.

Then you need to look over the spk wiring, or the bozo's didn't wire a speaker correctly at the factory and you just followed the steps as usual, but now it shows up.

If that's all ok, amp programming may be necessary. But remember, it could go away! One H2 amp had done that - Jimmy's!

No one wants to spend the money of course, but don't blame the dealer! Instead, just prepare yourself for it.

Do you have the 1129839 document? If so, under platform type C/K, Sub Yukon/XL with the Denali selection.

BTW, a new amp at a (Site-Support) Dealer +10% is in the $300 area.. + Tx & shipping.

[dsrour]

Thanks. Don't want to sound sexist but Linda seemed way to guy like. And that thing about no teeth. anyway
I'll try those things. Could it be the sub woofer? I installed GPS antenna today, no problem. Waitng for my dvd from ebay.
Looking at VSS signal ,my radio harness small plug has a green/white wire in right pin. Does this mean no additional VSS wire is needed? BTW the amp bolted right in all 4 screws. Holes were already present for bigger amp.

[sperry]

The presence of the wire in a Yukon may not be unusual, just ohm it (C2, "E") out to make sure (To cluster Connector, A4)

If you have an aux adapter however, they include all the wires there, regardless of what's at the other end. Don't let that fool you!

[3782steveo]

Sperry, what do you mean by "aux adapter"? Is this the same as having factory xm?

[sperry]

Nope, it's an aftermarket adapter like a PAC device. If you have no such thing, then just pursue the Ohm check to confirm your VSS tap.

[dsrour]

Did the speaker check. Everything seemed fine, except that I was not sure that the Subwoofer was working. Any suggestions here?
Also you had mentioned before an alternative Class two data source other than from radio or rse. I'm thinking that maybe part of the problem.
Also have a v1.0 dvd from cadillac, but doesnt work. Is this too early version or
thanks

[sperry]

See if the sub wiring is out of phase with one-another. It should hit well, just not like a set of good after-market ones, but a lot better than the crap amp. Is there a difference with changing the Bass or balance controls?

If you have a good CD with prominent bass, test it with that. Maybe Cinemagic or something with heavier- hitting bass if you have XM.

I have an early DVD in mine. But I can't remember, is yours an INR or a TNR nav?

[dsrour]

I checked on the amp plug and the SW wiring seems to be right.
I just noticed something else when pulled out of garage and checked XM-- the sound quality is very poor. I double checked all the pinouts and everything seems to be in order. Think maybe bad amp? I have the INR 15204335n

[sperry]

Hmmm, sounding like you'll need a reprogram allright.

I hope you have a fair to good relationship with your dealer. Also if they'll pull the doc and understand the instruction I mentioned.

That setup should sound clean..

I don't know for sure the exact version I have; I'll have to check. I have a 4334 nav. Yours has the radio/acc screen on the nav screen as a "PIP" option.

I wonder if Jimmy has a spare amp? PM him over there and ask!
Hopefully he's close enough to you to maybe drive there within reason?...

[dsrour]

Do you think reprogram would fix this kind of problem?

[sperry]

Well, it certainly isn't supposed to sound crappy and you rechecked everything you could. Mine sounded lousy but it was only working one speaker. So I took it to a (GMC) dealer I began to know well, and with a lot of interest in the document they didn't know of (nor did I until pbuilder told me about it and sent it to me)., we proceeded and had succeeded.

 In the excitement, the dealer had two vehicles to do. one was a promised new one that mistakenly didn't have the nav (BIG oops) and the other was the owner's for a retrofit. Needless to say, that was a relief for them too.

But, as I mentioned, be prepared - Jimmy's first amp went dead! That's why I suggested you get in touch with him. He had some spares (If I remember) at one time and a somewhat similar experience, although his worked, it went dead when he tried to set it up for his truck.

And he lives in Maryland (somewhere), if I remember right.

[92coop]

sperry, i wanted to ask a question from a previous post:
"Ok, I've been watching this topic for about a month now. I have a 2004 Silverado SS I'll be putting a 7287 TNR headunit in as soon as it gets here. How difficult is it to pull the dash top and install the GPS antenna? I believe I understand the vss wire from the dash cluster to the headunit, that doesn't look too difficult, just not too sure about yanking the dash top off."

I have my project installing the same 7287 tnr in my 03 suburban (waiting for it to arrive also) and I have a few questions:

1) What is the vss and will I need to install it or ??
2) What the optional voice connection you mentioned in reply to the above message. I am looking for the tnr to have voice where it has audio that tells you to turn..etc. Will I need to do anything extra to make this work. I think this has to do with voice commands??

Thanks

[sperry]

1 of 2

Trim Panel Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Upper

[/B][/size]

Removal Procedure

   1. If equipped with air conditioning (A/C), set the air flow control to the instrument panel (IP) vent position.
   2. Apply the parking brake to prevent the vehicle from moving.
   3. If the transmission is automatic, move the shift lever all the way down.
   4. Tilt the steering wheel to the full down position.
   5. Remove the IP cluster trim plate bezel. Refer to Bezel Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Cluster .



   6. Remove the end panels. The left panel is shown, and the right panel is similar.
   7. Remove the right side air outlets.



   8. Remove the assist handle by depressing the release tabs accessed through the air outlet duct holes.
   9. Remove the windshield pillar garnish moldings. Refer to Garnish Molding Replacement - Windshield Pillar in Interior Trim.
  10. Remove the bolts retaining the panel to IP assembly.

  Note: With the new software, I am unable to properly format the instructions/images.

[sperry]

  11. Lift the trim panel up to disconnect the electrical connector (1) to the ambient light sensor on the underside of the trim panel.



  12. Remove the trim panel from the IP assembly.

Installation Procedure



   1. Connect the electrical connector (1) to the ambient light sensor on the underside of the trim panel.



   2. Install the trim panel to the IP assembly.

      Notice

      Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.

   3. Install the trim panel retaining screws.
     
Tighten

      Tighten the trim panel retaining screws to 2 N·m (18 lb in).
   4. Install the windshield pillar garnish moldings. Refer to Garnish Molding Replacement - Windshield Pillar in Interior Trim.



   5. Align the assist handle with the holes in the IP assembly. Push the handle in order to engage the retaining tabs.
   6. Install the right side air outlets.



   7. Install the end panels. The left panel is shown, and the right panel is similar.
   8. Install the IP cluster trim plate bezel. Refer to Bezel Replacement - Instrument Panel (I/P) Cluster .
   9. Tilt the steering wheel to the normal driving position.
  10. If the transmission is automatic, move the shift lever to the park position.
  11. Disengage the parking brake.

[92coop]

sperry, I did some digging and found my answer to question #1 I had from above. It sounds like the vss tap will be helpfull.
I still would like some info on question 2 regarding the optional audio..what is it and what will it do.

Thanks, Happy Holidays ALL

[sperry]

The nav audio isn't an option, it comes with it. Not to be confused with voice command like a corvette, etc.

[92coop]

Thanks sperry,
Im glad it comes with it and I dont have to do anything special. I have seen posted on the forum that many have been installing a mic...not sure why...

I also wanted to update that spx/kent moore corp no longer sells (discontinued) the J-38125-64SPL  kit for the micro64 gm connector. Now they sell the individual terminals (bag of 25) for the connector for around $15.
Part number 15356827-pkg http://www.spxkentmoore.com

[sperry]

Are those the smaller terminals?
The larger ones for the GM24 are in a bag of ten now. ($8.80)

[sperry]

BTW, the mic is for the luxury systems. The noise cancelling mic.

[3782steveo]

Well I ran into a snag getting the theftlock cleared on the nav unit I purchased. When I bought it, it was supposed to be a 10377287 head unit. When it got here it had no tag on the side of the radio, which worried me from the standpoint that it was the wrong radio, and the guy was trying to hide that fact as long as possible. Well, I hooked it up, and did the theftlock bypass trick, and it worked fine, so I figured it was the correct unit. I took it to the dealer today, and they said they could not clear the theftlock because they didn't have the ability to program that particular radio to my truck. They said they would have to call GM and they would send them a patch to download to their Tech II. They then pulled the head unit out to look at the sticker to get the part # and s/n, and said with the sticker missing, they would not do it. They DID tell me that they pulled the part # and s/n out of the radio, and the part # was not 10377287. They said it was 10333560. Apparently, they seem to be afraid of it being stolen, never came right out and said it, but that's what they insinuated. I was told that this unit came out of a 2005 Suburban, and I really don't think there's anything fishy here other than the part # being different than what I was told. Does the dealer really have to call GM to clear the theftlock, even with the TECH II?? Are they feeding me a line just because they don't know what they're doing, or maybe they just don't want to mess with it.

Any input would be appreciated. I thought that they just cleared the VIN and the radio then married to the truck. They're trying to tell me there is some programming involved.

[sperry]

P/N's change all the time. And they're really dumb (or the radio is bad) if they did that to get the part number! It reads off in the Tech 2!

However it's nice that they are making the extra effort for you.

The fact that it's out of an 05 `burb should be ok. (If you hadn't changed your amp from the stock "premium" amp.)

Here's what they could have done; it should have worked for them.
--------------------------

Utilizing Tech 2 To Retrieve Part Numbers for Radios, Compact Disc (CD) Changers and Instrument Panel Clusters (IPC) #04-08-44-005 - (Mar 24, 2004)

2000-2004 Passenger Cars and Trucks

2003-2004 HUMMER H2

This bulletin is being published in conjunction with a GMSPO Parts bulletin GMP04-018 (US only) in order to clarify that the removal of several components solely to obtain part numbers may not always be necessary. Parts numbers for numerous radios, CD changers and I/P clusters are retrievable using a Tech 2®. This eliminates the need to remove the component solely to determine the part number. Note that if the component was removed during the diagnostic process, then the part number found on the part label can be used to order the replacement part.

On vehicles where the Tech 2® is used to retrieve the part number of a component, additional labor should NOT be submitted for removal and installation to gain access to the part label.

The Tech 2® should be used to retrieve the part number of the radio, CD changer and I/P cluster from the vehicles listed in the table below.

Important

When navigating through the Tech 2® menus, upon reaching the module selection list, choose either "Radio" or "Navigation Radio" as appropriate. Do not select "Digital Radio Receiver" as it is actually the XM receiver and not the radio.

Click on the link for the image to properly display for you. The site is not allowing the height of this image.
 ...Fixed.

[05lanch]

sounds like a bunch of crock to me why dose the stealership seem so uneducated when it comes to the smallest thing  if it worked with theftloc bypass trick then it should work in your truck go to a different dealer and have them program it 

[sperry]

Even though they made an extra effort for you, as you see, they apparently just don't know.  Some info may be valid, but that's what they received over the phone. From what I ran into with multiple scenario's, I'm not surprised.

If they didn't have this document, copy & paste this, or write down the document number for them.

Often they don't even know where to look for these simple procedures!

Document ID# 1275527
   
Radio Setup (With RPO UM8)

Radio Theftlock Clear Procedure

Complete the following procedure, using a scan tool, in order to properly set up communication:

   1. At the Main Menu screen, select: Diagnostics.
   2. At the Vehicle Identification screen, select the following options:
          * Model Year
          * LD Trk, MPV, Incomplete
   3. At the System Selection Menu screen, select: Body
   4. At the Vehicle Identification screen, select the following:
          * Appropriate model
          * Appropriate Air Conditioning
          * Navigation Radio
   5. At the Body Screen, select: Navigation Radio.
   6. At the Radio screen, select: Special Functions.
   7. At the Special Functions screen, select: VIN Relearn.
   8. At the VIN Relearn screen, the scan tool will display "Do you want to clear radio theft information?"
   9. To begin clearing, press the soft touch key on the top right of the scan tool. The scan tool will display "Clearing Radio Theft in Progress."
  10. Press EXIT on the scan tool and cycle the ignition.

Important: The radio theft will learn the VIN. Without learning the VIN, the radio will display a locked message (LOC or LOCKED).

[3782steveo]

Ok Sperry, they pulled the 10333560 part number from the Tech II.

Should they select MY VEHICLE model and year, or the vehicle that it came out of? Since the Silverado does not come with the nav radio, will it be available under that VIN?

[Avialanche]

Sperry,

        Could you fix the link regarding the wiring harness change/Mods for the Luxury amp upgrade, there's an old link on page 24, but it doesn't work.         

[sperry]

OK... Thanx..

----------------------------------

With the Silverado (Please make that destinct!) I presume Avalanche and don't get a year model either.. `can't read minds! Or can't read, if you stated that earlier. 

The closest (With a nav) would be more like a Sierra Denali.  If there's no access in a tech 2 for a Nav radio theftlock clear in a Silverado.

It reads the VIN afterward (During a key on/off recycle if I remember...) They have cleared OK before in Silverado's.

That should be able to sub to a sierra in the platform type C/K selection.
But ONLY if it doesn't show Silverado.

They keep changing the Tech 2 software (of course) and that doesn't make it easy to remember for me, since I seldom get to play with one.

If it faults, try the 05 `burb like you were going to.

[sperry]

Sperry,

 Could you fix the link regarding the wiring harness change/Mods for the Luxury amp upgrade, there's an old link on page 24, but it doesn't work.

I went way back there... the only link I found was an e-mail!(Besides the pic's) What reply # was it?

[3782steveo]

Sorry, it's a 2004 Silverado SS. I'm going to a different dealer tommorrow, where my cousin is the general service manager. It's a bit of a drive, that's why I didn't go there today, I thought this was something that any knucklehead with a Tech 2 could do.

Thakns so much for your help, Sperry.

[sperry]

OK, just bring that doc # with you, at least. I'm not familiar with that part # to date, so enlighten me as to the outcome (and your config, etc) so I can note it (please). Good luck!

[Avialanche]

Sperry,

 Could you fix the link regarding the wiring harness change/Mods for the Luxury amp upgrade, there's an old link on page 24, but it doesn't work.

I went way back there... the only link I found was an e-mail!(Besides the pic's) What reply # was it?

Correction,     it's page 42 Reply 824..........Thanks for your help

[sperry]

Things totally changed it's location. I had to re-upload it and read the link location just to find out what they do with the zips now. Not even close to the previous way. I guess they moved the zip files but didn't update the links.

OK now, even though the link is redundant.

[3782steveo]

Ok Sperry, here's another one to add to your list...10333560. I finally got the theftlock cleared. The shop foreman at the Cadillac dealership that my dad works for did it, and even HE was skeptical. I gave him the document you posted last night and told him to try a couple of body's that came with Nav, and the second try cleared it. He couldn't believe it, and I was tickled to death. Thanks again for your help.

Edit: by the way, he didn't even charge me, he said he was just glad to learn something new

[sperry]

Great to hear that; it should have worked and did.

So to confirm for the record:

The part #, was from an 05 `burb...
You installed it in an 04 Silverado...
You had not changed the amp...
The platform/vehicle they ended up subbing in was?....

They often do a freebie when they accept an unknown programming job or unusual retrofits that they learn from. It's that so many are reluctant to try it.

Enjoy the new toy!

[3782steveo]

10333560 supposed to be from an 05 Suburban
Installed in 2004 Silverado SS
No amp change, didn't change anything but the head unit
I believe he said he used the Trailblazer-Envoy-Rendezvous to clear and relearn the VIN

I'm off to install the Nav antennae and check the vss wire with my ohm meter.

Thanks again, Sperry

[sperry]

Cool! Thanks!

[dsrour]

Sperry, are all TechII programmers the same or is there model specific software. A friend who has a busy corvette shop has one and I was wondering if it would work on my YukonXL

[flyingdutchman]

Sperry: Any idea what this is? It is located  behind the driver's side windshield pillar garnish molding in my 2004 Escalade ESV.

[kdag]

i have h/u 15204334 will amp p/n 15114454 from a denali work of how about 15188044,15060881 the setup is going into a 04 sierra thanks for all the help

[avarchitect]

Two things I wanted to state - one is that the 15188044 amp WILL work with the INR system - I have this amp and the INR 335 unit and they worked without any problems straight from the package - did get the dealership to program it just so I was sure I was getting the best sound - however I didn't notice any difference between programmed and not programmed - this amp is out a H2 and is the replacement amp for all of the "bad" 2003 unit amps that have been know to go bad in the H2's only - don't know the numbers but the dealership I want to was also a hummer dealer and they said that they have been replacing a lot of the older 2003 amps with the 15188044 amp in their H2's - the only difference between the other numbers and the 15188044 is that the amp actually says H2 on the label - which considering the fact it is on the bottom of the amp which is then housed in the console - I don't think anyone will ever notice!

Has anyone with this setup the INR, Factory CD Slave, Factory XM, and Factory Y91 amp installed a PAC C2A-GM24 to add a set of RCA outs for an afterfactory amp?  I just got mine installed and am running two 8" Rockford Fosgate Punch Stage 2 driven by a Sony XM-2200GTX pushing 200 watts to each and plugged up the RCA's to the Sony and found something interesting - I recieve a low constant hum from the subs - as the music is increased of course the music over powers the hum but I don't like to hear the hum if I have it turned almost off - had the same exact setup before the HU change over with PAC converter on the AV's HU and didn't get the same affect.  Now here comes the really interesting fact of this whole question - the hum goes away if I turn off the display (the radio is actually still playing just under the config menu I hit the Disp Off button) is the PAC adapter not really meant to be used with the Nav System???  Just wondering if anyone else has ran into the same problem...

[sperry]

Sperry, are all TechII programmers the same or is there model specific software. A friend who has a busy corvette shop has one and I was wondering if it would work on my YukonXL

All models update with the update package, not just `Vette's unless there's some restriction I never heard of!

 You will find your Yukon in the diagnostics menu. Connect it, turn the key onto IGN, engine off. you will see the diagnostics menu. In that menu you will see a vehicle ID screen. Select the year, then the type vehicle (LD HD Trucks, etc.) Select LD and PU or MPV or what vehicle catagory yours falls under.. MPV?
Go into Body, platform type and explore!

What are you needing to do? Or just curious?

[sperry]

avarchitect,

Thanks for the confirmation. The programming may have just overwritten the same code that was in it! Usually it can be just a slight acoustical delay setting that would take some close "ear" to detect. Other times it could be just one speaker like mine was. Since the purpose of the amp was to replace troublesome units that wouldn't program or would lose operation, audio or partial function in a specific vehicle, I wouldn't doubt they would pre-program it.

That is an interesting dilemma with the hum. Make sure there's no path to ground that shouldn't be there. As far as operational details & quirks like this, perhaps you can run this past Brett at PAC.

[sperry]

Sperry: Any idea what this is? It is located behind the driver's side windshield pillar garnish molding in my 2004 Escalade ESV.

Interesting! I looked for it & nothing shows up (interior trim and pillar tweeter exploded views). Nothing in the SIR sensor locations, OnStar mic? (But that's supposed to be a black goodie at the left of the upper console) Noise cancelling mic (but that is supposed to be the little grille at the left of the lower console...)

LoJack? Getting smaller & rounder these days?

A secret spy mic? (Rip it out!!!)

If your as curious as I am, I would see if I can locate the other end anyway..If possible.

[flyingdutchman]

No Lo-Jack that I know of. Have noise cancelling mic where it's suppose to be. When I removed molding it just fell out, wasn't tied up along pillar as where other wires that where wrapped in electrical tape. Wire went down pillar, under dash, behind cluster. Didn't feel like taking underside of dash apart as it was snowing and 24 degrees. On well

[sperry]

Certainly interesting... Looks like a mic.

I wouldn't be a fan of solving curiousity in weather like that either...

In time, hopefully the answer...

[dsrour]

Are DVD Maps interchangeable between GM brands. I have Cadillac v3.0 that won't work in my INR from GMC Yukon. Says unable to read. Thanks

[sperry]

I never tried one in my INR but it should have worked. The CD based ones I doubt would, but a 3.0 DVD!

 That's supposed to be the update!

Call Delphi!

Delphi Electronics & Safety
One Corporate Center
P.O. Box 9005
Kokomo, Indiana 46904-9005
PRESUMED Division!
Tel:   765.451.5011
Fax:  765.451.5426

GM vehicle brand should not matter. Mine was referenced from a Cadillac P/N, that was the same as others at the time.

[Avialanche]

Sperry, 
 
          I'm a little confused about the wiring diagram(Reply 824) for the amp upgrade from UC6 to Y91,   the C1 connector  B2 RSA EnaSig,  I have the RSA option......don't i need this wire?     Next:     What do i do with B3, B4, B5, B6 Low Level Rear Audio Sig wires, Also B11 Pink?    Next:    Just Connnect the two Drain wires from C1, C2 with splice?

[sperry]

Of course it's confusing! The RSA enable signal is controlled by the class II data in a class II amp system. The wires with a red X should be stubbed off (Insulate them). The concept is different in these systems.

In a class II Luxury system, the audio level from the HU is constant full level. The volume and other audio controls in the head unit do not alter the audio there. Instead, those controls are an extension of the amp internal audio processing, via the data bus.

In this case the rear audio is processed in the amp for the speakers back there. If there is an operation request in the RSA, the amp is told to mute the speakers by data. So, it doesn't have to route through the RSA to return to the amp for normal (no RSA demand) operation. The RSA get's it's input from the radio's rear audio low level fixed output exclusively. That's how separate programming is available.

Since the premium system did route it through the RSA, you have the wires left over.

Somewhere back many posts ago, should be some schematics.... I hate when I have to tap my feeble memory.

[Avialanche]

Ok,  HU works,  but no audio except for humming from the sub and popping sound every 15 seconds or so.

     

[sperry]

Check the RSA audio.

[sperry]

Here's the Class II Luxury amp wiring for the RSA:

[sperry]

And the previous "Premium" amp with RSA wiring:

[Avialanche]

Sperry,


          Thanks for posting the schematics,  but i'm kinda slow when it comes to electronic systems,    if you could post a RSA connector rewire diagram like the other one that you made for the Y91 upgrade,    also i do not have a Class 2 data wire for the amp,   whats the best place to splice into?     anything else i need to know?   cause i thought that amp connector was the only thing that i had to change around.                     Your help is much appreciated.

[dsrour]

I obtained a 3.0 GM dvd and GPS worked fine. A Cadillac 3.0 dvd could not be read.
My o4 yukon xl already had VSS to the radio in the harness.

[sperry]

The Cadillac DVD shouldn't matter; something is wrong with it or it's a Car DVD. (Different HU,  if I remember, the car HU's are made by Denso). The Escalade unit is the same as another GM unit. The version backward compatability with 3.0 back to the INR, itself would have been brought up already if it wouldn't work. 

------

There should be no need to rewire (at) the RSA (Except tapping onto the Class II Data wire at A1 of C1); mine wasn't and it works. Effectively, the amp X-ref rewires the RSA.

------

Thanks for that feedback on the Yukon's XL's VSS wire,  Did you get a low resistance between that and the cluster A4? Some connectors may have the wire there but you need to be certain it makes it to the VSS circuit. (Although the nav will work, but jerky.)

[nota4re]

Sperry, et. al,

You may recall that I recently installed an '05 TNR (7531) in an '05 Denali.  While installing the GPS antenna with the dash cover removed, I did check for a common grn/wht wire between the instrument cluster and one of the radio connectors.  I did "ohm out" a common grn/wht wire.  Assuming that this was the VSS, I completed the GPS and 7531 TNR install.  I got the Theft Lock cleared by a local dealer (no charge!) and everything works.

However, I'm now wondering if I really do have the VSS wire.  One characteristic I have noticed is that the time of arrival doesn't seem to consider my current/avg speed.  For example, if I have 120 miles to go and I am traveling at a constant 75 MPH, it will still compute 2 hours of driving time.

Can someone comment if this is normal?

Assuming it is not, where can someone direct me to the connector pin-outs for the instrument cluster and radio.  I already know that "A4" is the wire I'm looking for, but I don't know the layout of the connector in order to find A4.

Thanks as usual for the excellent advice/help here.

[sperry]

 I never had that work that accurately for me either. But there's settings in the navigation setup ("Enter Speed Change") for estimated city street speed, highway speed, etc. I use the DIC averages and set mine by that but that's overall, not the higher road trip average. Maybe some fine-tuning there?

[sperry]

This is the radio C2. "E" would be the circuit you seek.

The cluster VSS wire is easy, it's the only dark green/whi wire that's four steps over from an end.
Other wires: Brown/white=A1, White is A5. So the VSS wire is the Dark Green/whi that's next to the white wire...

The board messes up new uploads for display, even if they're 500 wide, if they're "too high". So click on the link and bring it up in your viewer.
Fixed....

[bes4420]

Hey ya'll,
Great topic. 
I was wondering if this mod would work in my 02 Av.  No bose (wasn't available), just a stock CD player, no onstar.  I was looking at the Avic-n1, but would like a clean, factory install.  I'm leaving for the big sand box, but when I get back, I'll need to spend some of my tax free mil income on something worthwhile.  Any input would be appreciated.  By the way, does this have XM...cause I have it and swear by it.

Bill

[midwest kid]

Nice Sperry!  Awesome information. Can you fill me in a little about this "Bare"/"Drain Wire"?? Is this special wiring or something. Like I said, im working on a project so i want to make sure i have all my facts before i jump into this. Also, would you happen to have the part number for the 8 Pin connector that goes into the Bose Lux Amp? Im still trying to track down a pin out for the 24 pin connector at the back of the HU. Thanks again. Have a Happy New Years everyone!

[Avialanche]

Sperry,         I've spliced the AMP Class 2 wire from the RSA Light Blue wire to the B10 plug on C1 at AMP,  now the TNR just shows "Delphi"   on and off over 5-10 seconds,   what happened?      The TNR was working before i hooked up class 2 data wire from RSA to Amp.    

[sperry]

The part # for the shell is the one on the chart if you need to replace it for some reason. The terminal pin part numbers for the 8-pin connector are provided in an earlier post by another member. They are available at SPX Kent Moore25 in a bag, around $16~$17.

If I remember, you only need to swap one but a little neat wire splicing/soldering and heat shrink will work.

Did you download the wiring X-Ref chart posted earlier??

Here's the chart:

[sperry]

Here's HU-Connector 1. This may have to be expanded in your viewer.
The terminal Part # for this connector shell is: 12089649 @8.80 per bag of 10.

[sperry]

And the HU Connector 2:

[sperry]

Sperry,         I've spliced the AMP Class 2 wire from the RSA Light Blue wire to the B10 plug on C1 at AMP,  now the TNR just shows "Delphi"   on and off over 5-10 seconds,   what happened?      The TNR was working before i hooked up class 2 data wire from RSA to Amp.   

Certainly odd. Are you certain you tapped the wire at A1 of the RSA? and connected to the amp EXCLUSIVELY (no other connection at B10)?

Battery run low? (That'll do weird things) Delphi is the default "splash" screen. It usually only comes on if it can't identify what brand vehicle it's in, and initially after the power is restored.
In this case, it sounds like something is grounding out your data bus!
Did you remove the old tan wire that was there (B10) yet?

[sperry]

Hey ya'll,
Great topic.
I was wondering if this mod would work in my 02 Av. No bose (wasn't available), just a stock CD player, no onstar. I was looking at the Avic-n1, but would like a clean, factory install. I'm leaving for the big sand box, but when I get back, I'll need to spend some of my tax free mil income on something worthwhile. Any input would be appreciated. By the way, does this have XM...cause I have it and swear by it.

Bill

Sorry, Bill! It won't fit! and it won't "talk" to the rest of your system! The 02 is a 1½ DIN (Fit) and it has a different protocol for the class II DATA. (Exactly what it is, I hadn't dug into). The theftlock in these later radio's look for the VIN # that's stored in the BCM. It can't communicate with your `02 BCM either!

At least you have a nice Nav unit already. Many folks like the factory look too. But in this case, you're kinda stuck! Fortunately Pioneer at least had a solution that works in the space available.

[sperry]

Midwest Kid:

Can you fill me in a little about this "Bare"/"Drain Wire"?? Is this special wiring or something.

The "Drain" is just terminology they use. There's shields, chassis and earth grounds and just the complementary return wire. What's weird is that electrical flow is always negative to positive. So a "drain" if technically correct, would be the positive! But, not so in this case.

Just treat it as a shield common. Note that in some installs, that not all of those "drain" wires like to be common! Some trucks, the amp motorboats without one. In other's, you can pick up alternator whine with it! So check it carefully before you button everything up and allow yourself some room to try other combinations for your truck, if needed.

Just start off as the X-Ref chart shows. If I hear of a lot of problems the way I have it written up, I'll revert to a prior method for the default.

[Ranger 66]

I am looking for some advice and expertise on the INR install.  I purchased all of the components and took them to every stereo and audio shop I could find to get everything installed.  Everyone made some excuse as to why they couldn't do it even with all of the schematics and instructions that I downloaded from the site.  I took my stuff to my dealer who told me that he has done it before and it should take only "2 or 3" hours.  That was in October.  I have been back several times and each time there is a problem.  I read through most of the postings on this subject but I do not recall anyone having this much trouble.      Long story short here are my questions and the areas I need help in,  1. Is there a such thing as reprogramming the headunit (mine had to go to FL to get reprogrammed) 2. What causes the amp to stop working (mine was in and playing music for 5-10 mins then it quit no sound anywhere) The nav unit is in and it works great but currently I have no music or door chimes or onstar.  I bought another amp from GM Parts direct that should be here by next week.  3. How much should all of this install work cost?  I asked the service guy a million times and he keeps saying, "I'll take care of you"? 4. Does the Escalade CD changer require a mount or bracket to fit in the storage area under the radio?

Sorry to write a novel I am just frustrated.  If the answers to my questions have already been given then I apologize for asking again.

Thanks for any help you can provide.


RLTW

[bes4420]

Thanks for the info Sperry, It's nice to know I don't have to waste any more time with my decision...Avic-N1 it is.

Bill

[sperry]

Ranger 66,

If you read this "Novel" from the start, you will know that many other's and myself went through the hassle. But I suggest you take the time and go through the "rubble" here while you wait for the amp. You will find many tips that should help you better understand your project. However without a sig or a mention at all of what you have for a vehicle, Year model and build, I can't proceed to assist you!

An exception to this is that an unprogrammed and even an incorrectly wired (depends) amp, will allow chimes and OnStar! The fact that it's dead tells me that either the source voltage (fuse?) and/or the class II data connection is missing (the old "dumb" amp didn't use the data connection).

The more recent posts will show technical data that will considerably assist you. Unreadable charts and images will need to be expanded in your browser or image viewer; this depends on what you use for a browser. (Firefox is easier for me, than IE is.)

If you have the proper head unit for your amp, you don't need to program it at all (if new), and only a theftlock-clear (Procedure posted earlier here) if it's used.

Some amps do not need to be programmed and some do. One that didn't (a later H2 amp) is also posted here, earlier.

So read on and write down the questions you don't find and note here, and I'll help you or your dealer, as necessary and as possible, with what I have available.

You will end up appreciating it more after it works from all this!

And BTW, those stereo shops: They make an incomplete statement in answering you. They forget to add: "by us." That's what GM told me a year and a half ago but meant it more as "it won't work" period! (And to other's, prior to that!) I just didn't give up, even after my (contracted) installer almost did! Now we still work together on this by consulting each other's news and findings. `Worked out real well.

Fortunately, a member joined this board that just happened to have his info available, that he found, a GM document, that was the "key" at the time (when new amps had to be programmed). So, mine may have been the first retrofit (to the best of my knowledge) but his was the first one programmed up and working. That'll be just about a year ago.. as the date of the first post in this topic.

So, just follow through, no need to panic or re-invent the wheel now.

....

[sperry]

Ranger 66,

BTW, could you resize your avatar. The max size should be 100 X 100. Try to just open your profiles, then save it. Likely that will resize that avatar. If not, re post it within that process.
Thanks! (I have a bunch of pic's to do that to also..)

And in a re-read, I see you had stated that you collected and printed some diagrams already. At least check for some updates and additions...

HTH!

[Avialanche]

Sperry,

     Amp is working now,   but sounds terrible  (very hollow,  no bass)   sub is working,  all speakers are working,  but overall sounds bad,       amp need reprogramming?    I think i have the H2 amp

[dsrour]

Have same problem w/ my setup   amp#15188044.  335 HU.
very hollow tinny sound singers voice almost inaudible. Low volume on AM and XM. FM seemed ok interms of volume.
Anyway reprogrammed it today and.... no sound now.

[sperry]

Guy's, I just don't have the experience with the new H2 amp! I have heard of failures after programming them, as I posted earlier. As to why they give a problem, I didn't see anything different from the other prints and I never did more than mention them and take note that they "work". If other's here could post the amps they use and what worked for them and share their experience, it would certainly be welcome. Many disappear from after they're done!

 Without a kit form retrofit, pieceing a system together has no guarantee of  a simple plug-n-play!

So, experiment with those "drain" wires - mentioned earlier. There is an apparent  undocumented difference between vehicle builds that may cause unusual behavior in one truck and normal operation in another, an so-on.

I wished I was there to help, sometimes pic's and text just don't "cut it".

So, I'll see if there's any differences (again) in the H2 wiring, and you guy's compare notes..

One thought - check the operation of your RSA panel. Audio, stereo operation in the headphones, will it cut out the rear speakers, etc.

[sperry]

I went through the prints, and compared them to H2 prints. One main discrepancy was the mic polarity on the H2 prints differ to that of the previously referenced Cad/Denali ones. A GM Error. I'm using the H2 one this time.

Some of you were asking about the RSA, well, it was a good question. Since the previous doc was intended to just be for amp rewiring, the RSA WAS left out! So, yes there is a place for four of those six stubbed-off wires! Although you may need to extend them.

 It also answered some of the shield/"drain" mysteries. So, download this one and print it to see the changes. I'm so sorry if you had spent hourd searching RSA or maybe some noise faults, and have to pull the console again!

So, see how this works, I can only reference the prints, since my Av isn't in pieces on a test bench! Please let me know.. Thanks!

   New X-Ref Zip

[midwest kid]

Hmmm... would i be correct to say that the "Bare" wires are just grounds? Also, ive seen all this talk about RSA but im still clueless as to what it is, where it connects, and so forth. Wow, this challenge is getting to be a mental challenge! =)

[sperry]

But it's still a bit of experience to pick up on.. For everyone here..

RSA: Rear seat audio - If one has it. The HVAC/Audio panel at the rear of the console.

The amp wiring shield "grounds" they like to refer to as "drain" should connect to the amp only. They stub off at the other end as schematics show. No doubt to reduce ground loop or undesirable effects. D/L the "New X-Ref" Zip and see.
 
The class II / Lux system has another advantage over the premium system as it has the audio "conduit" at a fixed "high" level from the HU to the amp. The controls in the HU are controlling processing circuits in the amp, via the class II bus. That helps a lot keeping some unwanted stray field interference less audible. Why they don't use optical, or even coaxial  PCM, I don't know - unless it's some 10¢ more per vehicle or something?

[Avialanche]

Do need the Mic for proper amp operation?

[sperry]

No, it's just for noise-cancelling. Some don't like "AudioPilot" anyway.

It can be shut off in the audio menus of the HU. Or programmed off(If I remember, it's a default setting) with a Tech II. If left on and enabled without a mic, weird operation could result. (Lower volume mostly) and it may set a DTC code.

[Avialanche]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up about the mic,    in the previous post you said that the four stubbed off wires need to go to the C1 at RSA,  what about the wires that are already there(which are the same colors) as the wires i've spliced from the C1/amp harness to RSA.

[sperry]

They may "harness" to the amp. That was where my presumtion went the wrong direction.

The old amp rear audio passed  through the RSA first. The Lux wiring connects rear seat audio directly to the HU rear Low Lev outputs - Only.

The wiring that's on the RSA now may work, but derived through the amp. I just have to scope it out physically to see how it routes; I just don't remember. However, if it works, just leave it! Mine was rewired and works even if the amp fuse is pulled. (The RSA is powered from the radio fuse.)

Compare the schematics and the new X-ref to better make sense of it, rather than me trying to type out more confusion for you!

Don't believe all of the designated hook-up you see on the prints. There's conflict on the "GM" side as to the connection ID's. One will show one way and the other one... well you can see why there's a problem. The H2 shows the mic wiring polarity and labeling different that other ones, which something else may have a different discrepancy to yet another!

I'll post the H2 Lux prints later, I have to re-Filesize some of them to fit the limits.

[sperry]

OK, I found some other apparent (MS) problems while tracing connector numbering mis-matches.

This one may resolve the weird audio problem!

Check the X-ref document(s) you have. You may notice the arrowed lines skewed. That'll really mess things up! Apparently, while editing, all it takes is a column to skew by a space, and all really messes up! The lines are drawing lines and don't lock to the text body for alignment retension.

Look at the circuit numbers and match them (Fortunately the wire colors help corrections!)
I (again) re-posted the corrected doc (same reply#) and D/L'd/unzipped and checked it. It didn't change. I just hope it doesn't in your Word or Viewer version!

This doc is dated 1-1-05 in the lower right of the page.

[Avialanche]

No, it's just for noise-cancelling. Some don't like "AudioPilot" anyway.

It can be shut off in the audio menus of the HU. Or programmed off(If I remember, it's a default setting) with a Tech II. If left on and enabled without a mic, weird operation could result. (Lower volume mostly) and it may set a DTC code.

I think this may be the culprit,  how do i turn it off,  can't find it in HU menu's,  unless i'm missing a menu that i don't know how to find.                 The RSA and RSE work fine without the four stubbed off wires.          back to sound quality,       could the H2 use different speaker polarity in the amp/wiring vs Chevy/Cad amp/wiring?      cause the speakers sound like the polarity is wrong.       

[Avialanche]

Also,   I have a Diablosport Predator program loaded,  would that affect the amp programming?

[duramaxHD]

Steve (and everyone else who has provided mountains of info to this thread)--- I keep kicking myself for procrastinating in my TNR upgrade but I keep wanting to just wait "one more day" to see what new help 'arrives' here! One question that has been nagging at me: I know H2's have always been equipped with UC6's from when they first came out...but did'nt all the H2's until mid-2004 have the Y91 Lux amp?? I was under the impression that ONLY the nav HU's and the UB1 could talk to the Lux amp...while the UC6 was ONLY happy with a "dumb" amp at the other end. Does this mean that early H2's (2003 to mid 2004) had "super special edition" UC6's that could work with a Y91 amp???

[sperry]

Yes, to the best of my knowledge: A 15179349 Class II UC6 from an `03 H2. And you're correct on the other details also.

[sperry]

Avialanche:

I think this may be the culprit,  how do i turn it off,  can't find it in HU menu's,  unless i'm missing a menu that i don't know how to find.                 The RSA and RSE work fine without the four stubbed off wires.          back to sound quality,       could the H2 use different speaker polarity in the amp/wiring vs Chevy/Cad amp/wiring?      cause the speakers sound like the polarity is wrong.

H2 wiring, except for the mic wiring polarity, is the same. The arrowed lines were skewed and that last wiring chart may correct it. The one done just prior (and maybe the one before that ) may have been skewed where the lines point incorrectly.

Review it with the others you printed. And MATCH THE CIRCUIT NUMBERS! in case your word version or wordview messes up the pointer lines.!

I wouldn't worry about the mic yet. Check that wiring!
The noise cancelling is in the manual under audio menus if I remember - `dont have it in front of me.
 

[sperry]

Also, I have a Diablosport Predator program loaded, would that affect the amp programming?

I doubt it's causing this. The only quirk I know of is with RSE. You need to pull that fuse to program several items. INCLUDING the amp. Operation should be the same.

[Avialanche]

Avialanche:

I think this may be the culprit,  how do i turn it off,  can't find it in HU menu's,  unless i'm missing a menu that i don't know how to find.                 The RSA and RSE work fine without the four stubbed off wires.          back to sound quality,       could the H2 use different speaker polarity in the amp/wiring vs Chevy/Cad amp/wiring?      cause the speakers sound like the polarity is wrong.

H2 wiring, except for the mic wiring polarity, is the same. The arrowed lines were skewed and that last wiring chart may correct it. The one done just prior (and maybe the one before that ) may have been skewed where the lines point incorrectly.

Review it with the others you printed. And MATCH THE CIRCUIT NUMBERS! in case your word version or wordview messes up the pointer lines.!

I wouldn't worry about the mic yet. Check that wiring!
The noise cancelling is in the manual under audio menus if I remember - `dont have it in front of me.
 

I've triple checked the wiring, i always had it right,  except for not having the Class 2 wire spliced from RSA to AMP,    there's nothing in the owners manual about the noise mic in any of the menu's.       Plus i don't think the subs are working,   wiring at C2/Amp is correct.      What fuse are you talking about?             How do i make the HU and Amp reprogram themselves?      Disconnect battery for 10 minutes?     

[sperry]

"Had it right" as in the old X-ref's or as in the Class II amp schematic? If you were double and triple checking against the Old one and the previous one, compare those docs carefully against the 1-1-05 one. Then, if something doesn't match, go back to the truck. Look closely at the arrows; where they were and where they are now (on the latest one).

HU's and amps won't reprogram themselves (Except the HU from new - `reads in the VIN).

Error codes can set and clear, but I hadn't heard of them causing a change in operation.  The engineer's could certailly change that fact if they wanted to.

Page 3-4 Called "Automatic Volume Control" Look for the menu button as in the symbol at the bottom of this post Audio page 2.

"Automatic Volume Control (AVC): With AVC, the
audio system’s volume can adjust automatically to make
up for road and wind noise as you drive. Use the
down arrow screen button to get to the second page of
the Audio menu. Touch the On screen button to turn
this feature on. The volume level should always sound
the same to you as you drive. You may also touch
the Off screen button to turn this feature off."

This is speed-set in the UC6 and UM8 for the "premium" system, and ambient noise in the "Luxury" system.

[gdrews35]

I am trying to install unit # 15204335 in my 2004 avalanche and would GREATLY appreciate the programming information that you have.  Thanks!

[sperry]

gdrews35!

There are procedures how to have this done, a few pages earlier in this topic.

Realize that the 4335 HU will not just plug into your Av. You will need a Luxury ClassII amp and rewiring at the amp's connectors.

Amps range in the low $300 area at a cost + 10% store. Try one of our site-supporting dealers and retailers if you don't already have the amp.

I presume you have the DVD & GPS antenna.

The amp MAY require reprogramming and your head unit will need the theftlock cleared. Both can be done in one visit to a dealer, if you follow through with the wiring changes found here.

The older posts discuss more of the findings starting almost a year ago.. Then it's more info and procedure based later on.

Give yourself some time and read through this "Technical novel" and we'll revisit with the Q&A!

Enjoy!

[Avialanche]

All wiring is correct, AVC is off,  no difference,  so i guess i'll have to get it reprogrammed,   can barely hear the Onstar & XM compared to radio and CD,   i noticed in the schematics that Luxury HU(EXT) use a Special Composite  AM/FM antenna system, instead of the mast antenna the premium system uses,  cause radio reception is poor compared to the UC6 HU.         I got this package from JP Customs,  would i just be better off getting a different LUX AMP or HU?         Cause i read on here somewhere that someone else had the same bad audio problem and went to dealer to get amp programmed to the vehicle and ended up with the amp not working at all after the programming,  so i'm concerned that  i probably wouldn't be able to return my LUX amp for exchange/refund to JP customs if Chevy dealer Tech 2 programming makes the amp not work at all.

[midwest kid]

Sperry, would you happen to know what the "FM Composite Signal" is for? I dont have one in the vehicle im trying to integrate this into.

[sperry]

All wiring is correct, AVC is off,  no difference,  so i guess i'll have to get it reprogrammed,   can barely hear the Onstar & XM compared to radio and CD,   i noticed in the schematics that Luxury HU(EXT) use a Special Composite  AM/FM antenna system, instead of the mast antenna the premium system uses,  cause radio reception is poor compared to the UC6 HU.         I got this package from JP Customs,  would i just be better off getting a different LUX AMP or HU?         Cause i read on here somewhere that someone else had the same bad audio problem and went to dealer to get amp programmed to the vehicle and ended up with the amp not working at all after the programming, so i'm concerned that i probably wouldn't be able to return my LUX amp for exchange/refund to JP customs if Chevy dealer Tech 2 programming makes the amp not work at all.

Jason will stand behind the product, but I thought he supplied an adapter harness for the amp? If your wiring is indeed correct, just program it. They can pull document 1129839 or you can cut & paste from here. If the sub'd platform type (Escalade EXT) won't work, use the H2. It only programs the amp and RSA and they use the same.

Remember to remove your RSE fuse prior.

[sperry]

The (Diversity) antenna system is used in the Lux Suv's only. It's the vehicle, not the audio system type that apparently defines the use, but it just happens to end up as the luxury. The combiner-preamp could be retrofit to an av, but you need to set them up physically similar to the SUV's, as this system was set up in a lab.

Back to the amp... Call Jason first, he'll work something out. I thought you pieced this together all this time!

[sperry]

Sperry, would you happen to know what the "FM Composite Signal" is for? I dont have one in the vehicle im trying to integrate this into.

GM terminology depicts it as mentioned in the above reply's.

The diversity reception application is similar to that of a wireless mic receiver, commonly used in music and broadcast industries.

The device may improve reception slightly and maybe a few less "holes" in the FM reception. But it doesn't have to be utilized. Just use a 31" single antenna.

[Avialanche]

I waited two months for jason to get the conversion harness out, in the end jason's supplier/manufacturer couldn't make a conversion harness in bulk for the swap's, so i ended up just buying the lux package and doing the connector changes myself.       About the Antenna,   your're saying the mast antenna is 100% compatible with lux hu.      Does programming with Tech 2 select which antenna setup the hu is to be configured for?

[sperry]

OK, He has a lot of unfilled promises by his vendors... Always a hitch in the get-along..  Talk to him about the dilemma first, however.

The broadcast antenna type is only a hardware concern.. And not for Av's. If it's a Lux SUV, the antennas are in the windows.

Here's GM's description:

The diversity antenna system is comprised of 3 glass mounted antennas, a radio antenna module, and an FM impedance matching module. The primary AM and FM antennas are an integral part of the left rear quarter glass and are connected to the radio antenna module. The secondary FM antenna is an integral part of the right rear quarter glass and is connected to the FM impedance matching module. The radio antenna module processes the antenna reception signals and phase aligns them to create one strong signal. The FM impedance matching module boosts the secondary antenna signal and transmits it to the radio antenna module.

[Avialanche]

OK, He has a lot of unfilled promises by his vendors... Always a hitch in the get-along..  Talk to him about the dilemma first, however.

The broadcast antenna type is only a hardware concern.. And not for Av's. If it's a Lux SUV, the antennas are in the windows.

Here's GM's description:

The diversity antenna system is comprised of 3 glass mounted antennas, a radio antenna module, and an FM impedance matching module. The primary AM and FM antennas are an integral part of the left rear quarter glass and are connected to the radio antenna module. The secondary FM antenna is an integral part of the right rear quarter glass and is connected to the FM impedance matching module. The radio antenna module processes the antenna reception signals and phase aligns them to create one strong signal. The FM impedance matching module boosts the secondary antenna signal and transmits it to the radio antenna module.

  I C,    Ok thanks for your help with all of this,  will talk to jason tommorrow about what to do next.                        Happy New Year!

[sperry]

Don't give up, good luck!

[flyingdutchman]

Happy New Year to all and thanks to everybody that posted in this forum and a special thanks to you Sperry for your help, I now have a TNR installed in my 2004 Escalade ESV (build date 11/12/2003). After disassembling the dash I found that I did have the DK GRN/WHT wire already installed in the radio connector  C2 “E”, but I stilled “Ohm it” to the cluster A4 to be sure. After I installed everything, I reconnected the battery, turned the key to Acc and received the Delphi screen followed by the Cadillac logo. After checking radio function, I inserted Nav disc and in under a minute had my position. After reassembling everything and starting engine “Theftlock” appeared, so a trip to the dealer was scheduled. On Thursday I arrived at the Buick Dealer. They had done work on my Lesabre and assured me that they could clear the Theftlock. The service manger (nice guy) tells the service tech that he has to call GM to get the code to clear the Theftlock. I tell them that they just need to hook up the Tech II to clear the VIN. I then produce the instructions (Thanks Klaus). The service tech then hooked up the Tech II (supervised by the service manager) and in under a minute I was good to go (Did not pull the RSE fuse). After asking the service manager what I owed “NOTHING” just take care of service tech ($20)  the service tech began asking me a load of questions since he has a Envoy and would like to install a Nav unit. I told him to go to the best source on the Net, The Chevyavalanchefanclub.com. Again thanks to everybody for their posts and to you Sperry for your help. Next project will be back-up camera and I am sure I will find what I need to know somewhere on this site. Pictures to follow.

[flyingdutchman]

Front of Cluster Connector

[sperry]

Yep! Although the Envoy uses different amps, they have the Dumb amp and Class II amp both to deal with. Those of you reading this that own Envoy's, The Lux amp has three connectors, the dumb one has two. Yes, you also have to rewire the connectors. In this case you also have to round up the third one. The third connector is specific Class II amp. It connects the Class II bus and the noise-cancelling mic.

The short WB has the amp under the RR seat. The Long WB (and I only presume) the XUV, has the amp inside the top of the left rear fender.

[sperry]

Front of Cluster Connector

Looks like it's a GM24 connector ready to strike!

Most dealers freebie even the programming if they didn't know how prior. Sad, but most of the info is at hand on their Dealer Net computer/SI.site.

They don't always find the time when they have a long line of service customers to tend to. But the slow times they should just spend the time and browse through it (and the Techlink articles).  Fortunately Help works both ways - They have the Tech II and.... 

[midwest kid]

The part # for the shell is the one on the chart if you need to replace it for some reason. The terminal pin part numbers for the 8-pin connector are provided in an earlier post by another member. They are available at SPX Kent Moore25 in a bag, around $16~$17.

If I remember, you only need to swap one but a little neat wire splicing/soldering and heat shrink will work.

Did you download the wiring X-Ref chart posted earlier??

Here's the chart:

Thanks Sperry. I think im missing it somewhere. I saw all the posted part #'s for the 12/24 connectors but no this one. Reason i need it is because im having to make a harness.

[flyingdutchman]

Rear of Cluster Connector A4 Circled

[flyingdutchman]

Radio Connector 2 "E" Circled

[flyingdutchman]

"Ohm It" Cluster "A4" to Radio Connector 2 "E"

[flyingdutchman]

GPS Mounting Location

[flyingdutchman]

Boot Screen

[flyingdutchman]

Theftlock

[flyingdutchman]

Radio Part #

[sperry]

Remember: The `531 is for LUXURY systems!!

--------------------------------------------------------------

That's even better than words & graphics!

[sperry]

Thanks Sperry. I think im missing it somewhere. I saw all the posted part #'s for the 12/24 connectors but no this one. Reason i need it is because im having to make a harness.

`Couldn't get the jist of the post... Did you find them or asking me, since you couldn't?

I'll have to find where I poked the info or wait until the order arrives this week..

[midwest kid]

Thanks Sperry. I think im missing it somewhere. I saw all the posted part #'s for the 12/24 connectors but no this one. Reason i need it is because im having to make a harness.

`Couldn't get the jist of the post... Did you find them or asking me, since you couldn't?

I'll have to find where I poked the info or wait until the order arrives this week..

asking. 

[sperry]

If I can't find it, you'll have to wait till my order comes in later this week! 

Meanwhile browse back a few pages...

Also/meanwhile do some searches here for spxkentmoore.com - the P/N was somewhere on this board!

....

[92coop]

This "novel" only gets better.
A very special thank you to the color pictures posted by dutchman!!
Sperry,  do you know if the 05 TNR (out of a yukon xl) will play dvd's (hacked or un-hacked)

[sperry]

I have heard of it done but they charged through the nose and won't do it anymore for fear of a lawsuit. They used another decoder board from some aftermarket rig.

I didn't get the details when the price hit me - more than the HU itself!.

Of course, that was the old INR...

TNR: GM wouldn't risk the liability with the driver-viewed display.

[TexasZeus]

Sperry on the 04 Envoy, does the re-wire schematics posted here still work? I presently have the crapola amp and will be replacing it with the Class II as soon as the dealership gets me the Lux HU.

[sperry]

Envoy wiring is different! It's a different class II amp than the GMT-800's.
Review each connector to see the changes. The image expands if you click on it or D/L it. (Depends on your viewer & Browser).

Repost Image 1 of 2:


In the Envoy/TB/Ranieror Rendezvoux?/Bravada/Aztek you will need a 3rd connector for the mic and data connections.

[sperry]

Envoy Spk & mic wiring:

2 of 2:

[sperry]

Hopefully this is still correct: Envoy Class II Amp : 15112641

Envoy connector #3 shell (connector body) number on the chart image..
If the dealer does not have the terminal part numbers, you'll likely find them at SPX-Kent Moore (The web page has the phone #'s/contact info only)

[avarchitect]

PLEASE READ EVERYONE WORKING WITH THE H2 15188044 AMPS!!
I have installed and have completely working a H2 unit with the 15188044 amp - I talked with my dealership who helped me with my install about the problems that we are having with some of the units going dead at programming and before programming sounding really bad - they are a H2 dealership and have been installing this exact amp in a lot of the 2003 and early 2004 H2 for a replacement amp for various reasons.  I was informed that they do come from the factory programmed for the 2003-04 H2's since they are replacement amps to fix a current problem with the older unit in the H2's.

First - the Mic is a must for the factory settings (since the H2's come standard from GM with the mic) - I was told that without the mic the amp would output mainly treble and not much bass - I tested the theory on my system this evening and they were completely correct...with the mic missing or even miswired (I reversed the + and - feeds) the unit pushed about all the treble one man could handle - I even have 2 8's in the rear and they were pushing the bass hard but couldn't nearly come close to matching the treble - from silent one dail up on the volume caused the unit to output as much treble as it does half way up with the mic installed.  Two or three turns up from silent and I could not stand to sit in the truck with it.  A good way to test this theory without the mic - start the truck up, go to your Audio control menu and turn the treble and mid range all the way up - then switch between Normal to either Driver or Spacious - if the unit is missing the mic (or at least mine did) when switching to one of the other settings - the amp almost went silent in comparison to the Normal setting.  Now that said the mic might not be your problem because I was able to control my AVC from the headunit (not sure if this is because I programmed the amp to the vehicle or not) and was able to kill the insane treble from the HU.

NOTE: I pause for a second here to remind everyone that while the Y91 upgrade is a nice upgrade - don't expect your 6" bose sub to start rattling your windows - it is still a Bose system - excellent highs - rich mids - lacking lows...the sub just doesn't have the size or the space to fill these trucks with earth shaking bass - on the passager side - place you hand around the plastic cover where the console stops - the air output for the sub is there - with the unit pushing you should be able to fill some air pushing out of it - if not then you sub is not running which can be one of two things - wiring problem or amp programming.

The H2 dealership (also Chevy) told me that when they programmed mine they noticed that both the HU and the amp were from an H2 (also the CD changer but they didn't know that) - they were not sure if that is why they were able to program the amp without any errors or not - with everything wired in my truck the unit worked perfect - I had my highs, mids and lows - all speakers worked and the four preset audio configurations worked - They did tell me that it is very possible the the factory programming might limit these amps to a 2003 - early 2004 BCM meaning that the unit might not communicate completely with a late 2004-2005 BCM - what I gathered was they were just guessing on that one.  They did tell me that the H2 in 2003 came with the same bose system as the 2003 Avalanche did and that is why my unit didn't sound any different after programming - the speaker and timing are exactly the same between the vehicles - I thought the H2 came with 9 speakers though and the Av only came with 8 (2 front tweeters, 2 front mids, 2 rears and the sub which is a dual coil system).  I don't know too much about that one but I am not sure I buy into it either.

I just want to state that I do not claim to be an expert on any of this - I just thought I would try to relay some ideas and answers I got from my dealership.  The amp does work in a 2003 1500 Z71 Avalanche with UC6 Bose factory system before hand (Oct 2002 assembly date)

I was cautioned by my dealership that if the amp goes dead due to programming that it might not be able to be recovered.  Sorry if these doesn't help anyone but I will be happy to work through the setups with anyone to see if we can isolate the problem(s).

[avarchitect]

I was also trying to keep up with this forum as much as possible, I remember someone stated earlier that their HU came on for about 5 to 10 seconds displaying the startup screen and then went blank - I tested a theory of mine this evening and it worked - if you select the unit to turn off the display in the config menu - if you turn the truck off and back on the unit will display the splash screen and the return to the blank empty screen again - you must select another function on the radio for the screen to return - however if the theftlock is engaged it probably will not work since you are unable to select anything with it activited - try the theftlock bypass if you need to and then select a button and see if the screen returns.  Just a thought...

[avarchitect]

Since no one know the part number when I needed it I thought I would post this part number that might be needed for those who pull just a little too hard on that dash cover -

Dash Light Sensor  - GM# 25713063 - $22.00

You will not need this unless you break you black globe looking light sensor in the dash cover but if you do here is the part number - this one is a 2003 Av but I was told that they are all the same for the GM truck line.

[sperry]

Yep! That's a problem here - plenty of tech info - but parts - not so great. Thanks!
`Someone want to collect all the part numbers here and list them again? The posts way back need to be updated with this new info!

----------------------------------

Yes, there was a bulletin about the earlier H2 Class II amps.

This amp generation must have changed from my version, where mine was programmed without the mic. If it isn't there on the old amps, it disables it. Apparently not so with the new H2 amp! Thanks for the excellent report!

Note there's wiring errors in the H2's mic wiring prints; every other one I had looked at shows it as having the opposite polarity assignment! And they call it "Noise Compensation Microphone Signal on 1488, and "Noise Compensation Microphone Supply Voltage" on 1354. Then they're wired reverse as I previously stated!

Circuit 1354 is supposed to be the "Drain" (Shield)! and on B2!

That's something that'll take the wind out of your sails! Dead, after a reprogram!

All that aside, It's impressive, isn't it! 

And fortunately you found a savvy dealership!

[sperry]

I noted the speaker comment, always a concern, since the H2 has "Twiddler" speakers on their D-Pillars.  (Connector 1, A1 & A2-Right and Connector 2 C & F-left) There if you want to connect to them!

[sperry]

Since no one know the part number when I needed it I thought I would post this part number that might be needed for those who pull just a little too hard on that dash cover -

Dash Light Sensor - GM# 25713063 - $22.00

You will not need this unless you break you black globe looking light sensor in the dash cover but if you do here is the part number - this one is a 2003 Av but I was told that they are all the same for the GM truck line.

The 02's and earlier are different.

I just now recall someone breaking theirs.. Was that you!
Sorry about the lack of parts info on that... I have to do the same hassle as anyone else for parts, unless someone shares it here like you and a few others have.

[avarchitect]

Sperry - I love this unit couldn't give me enough money to remove it now!!  As for the light sensor - sadly it was me - the stupid dash clips wouldn't come free - gave it a little to hard of a tug - oh, well all fixed now.

As for the twiddlers you are referring to - the bose speakers up at the windshield?  They are already hooked up (I hope) or did I miss a set somewhere in the AV??

[sperry]

Actually, those are in parallel with the door speakers! Only a NP capacitor in series with them, that isn't on the prints.

In the H2, the twiddlers are in the D-pillar. Just another connection if you want them - as you see in the earlier post (where they connect on the amp).

If you want more high's, you can add pocket tweeters (the front space in your three door pockets of each door).

More bass (I'm happy with mine) but that's a (stereo) amp of your choice, separate speaker-level  inputs tapped onto each respective Sub-woofer coil (whatch the phase!) and bridge the outputs for a single woofer.

 I would imagine you would know that but other's read here...

These amps have plenty of clean punch the way they are... If the other's only knew!

`Glad it finally worked out for you...You stuck with it as I did. The reward is well worth it!

BTW, how far did you throw the crap amp! 

[avarchitect]

While I love the sound improvement over the crappy "bose" amp we got in the AV (it took a flying 200 foot drop off the bridge the other day )  I needed a whole lot more bass than that little sub in the dash was ever going to get me - I am now pushing 200 RMS to two 8" Rockford Fosgate Punch Stage 2 subs in an sub-enclosure of about .35 cubic ft. and I can honestly say that I do rattle the windows now - sitting in the garage with the windows up I can actually rattle my garage door to the point you can hear it inside the truck - now if bose could figure out how to get that kind of bass out of that sub in the console - they would be a genius !!

My problem wasn't connecting into the sub and getting the phasing right - I decided after first having the amp hooked up to the high level inputs to the sub that I didn’t like having the Bose amp also controlling my sub’s amp – you get a great amount of bass by wiring direct but the rear subs are the completely controlled by what they receive from the bose amp – I am not too big on that.  I ended up with the PAC unit that allows you to hook you amp up via RCA low level outputs and then is controlled by the data bus as to how much volume your subs receive – it gave me a much cleaner and crisper bass hit in the rear of the truck!  Now I just adjust the treble and mids to match the subs in the rear and turn off the bass at the head unit – allow the bose system to provide me exactly what it is the best for – highs and mid and higher lower and my subs pick up where the factory systems leaves off – a well balanced system – a little bit of punch a the low volume and a lot so kick in the higher range!

I just want to state to everyone that the biggest audio difference you will notice right off the bat with the Y91 amp is that as the volume increase, the amp produces no distortion and I mean none – the music is just as crisp at the first notch on the volume selector as it is turned all the way up and everywhere in between – the other difference is (of course to notice this you would have to have the old crappy amp right beside of it running to listen to the difference if your ears are that tuned to it) the clarity and crispness of the full range – I have noted things in my music and actually scared me at first because I thought the head unit was making funny noises – you will hear all of the fine little details in the audio that you would expect to hear in a high end home audio system.

I know I keep talking about the benefits but I just wanted to clarify for people what they can expect out of the Y91 amp – don’t expect a new 1000 watt amp pushing your system to points that are just not possible in a factory system – expect a very rich, crisp Bose system.  Think of a Bose Wave Radio with a little more punch and you won’t be disappointed!! 

[sperry]

Good write-up! Although that wave radio I feel is far overpriced for the sound.. (My brother has one).

 The "clean" is the advantage here, but why they didn't use coaxial or optical puzzles me?
The Boze bass process would normally make me turn away but the freq and punch is ok for me with this amp. The exception would be some movies (again, for my tastes) a bass shaker would bring the feel back - but not the impact in your chest of some effects.

[avarchitect]

Sperry,

I had an amazing thought last night while trying to fall asleep  – I noted that we were talking about the twiddler speakers where a connection we could hook up – just that the speakers aren’t present in an AV – well I noted that one person who was trying to get the Y91 amp to work was working with a Yukon XL which would have the twiddler present in the vehicle – however our wiring diagram does not show where they come from on the old amp and where to hook them up on the new amp .  They would be present in the existing harness and therefore would need to be exchanged into the new amps positions on the harness – if they were not removed and placed back into the correct “new” position this could (and most certainly would if the + and – were crossed from one amp to the next) cause the amp to have a cross phasing and cause the remaining speakers to sound very quiet and muffled – just like swapping the + and – on a sub – the speaker still outputs sound but it is very muddy and has very little to no actually bass.  Could this be our problem and since the AV doesn’t have these speakers built into the unit the amp just doesn’t notice they aren’t there.  We need to check that for all of those vehicles that do have the extra speakers!!!

Just a 1:30 in the morning thought!

[sperry]

I thought that was resolved?

OK, yes! must be in phase ESPECIALLY the sub!

A1   WHT      1854      RR Twidler Spk Out   (+)

A2   YEL        1949        RR Twidler Spk Out     (-)

Not present on old amp.

[sperry]

The part # for the shell is the one on the chart if you need to replace it for some reason. The terminal pin part numbers for the 8-pin amp connector 2 are provided in an earlier post by another member. They are available at SPX Kent Moore25 in a bag, around $16~$17.

If I remember, you only need to swap one but a little neat wire splicing/soldering and heat shrink will work.

The (SPX Kent Moore) Part # for the terminals used in this connector is: 12356827-PKG. They come as 25 per package.

[avarchitect]

Sperry,
How could this speakers be present in the vehicle with the crap amp and not be wired to the amp??  Like in a Yukon or Suburban the D piller twiddler speakers would be present with the bose system - so that being the case they have to have a set of speaker wires come back to the crap amp, right?  Or are they tied in with another set of speaker outputs??  Our wiring diagram shows the Twiddler speaker outputs on the Y91 amp at A1 and A2 on the C1 connector and C and G on the C2 connector but on the UC6 side where do those speaker wires come from or are they wired together with the rear audio speakers outputs or better yet are these speakers only available with the Y91 amp and not present in a premium bose system??  I could swear that the suburban had the D-piller speakers though.

Well, I don't know - you say they aren't present on the old amp which would be completely true for an Avalanche and any pickup truck and maybe I was incorrect about them being in the suburbans or yukons.  At any rate it was just a thought...I was just trying to think of what possible could be causing people to be getting sound out of the amp but not good quailty.

[duramaxHD]

avarchitect--- (Steve correct me if im wrong on this) On crap-amp UQ7 Bose systems the speakers in the D-pillars (on 'Burbans, Tahoes, etc...) i believe are wired in parallel with the rear left and right mid-range door speakers. So basically the d-pillar speakers just give a stereo x2 effect, rather than an actual dedicated output from the amp as in the Y91 systems... I suppose anyone who has a Burban or Tahoe and upgraded to a Y91 amp could trace the wiring from the D-pillar speakers and wire it to the Y91 amp's twiddler outputs...who knows where GM stashed those wires tho!!!


and Steve-- thats a good point about why GM just didnt use a toslink or coaxial cable to send raw PCM data to the amp...no need to worry about DAC's for the cd player and what not...and that would certainly be a good way to maintain quality and it would cut down on wiring..all that would be needed is the digital audio cable and a class II wire to control volume and such...no??

[dsrour]

So would disconnecting the Rear D pillar speakers on non lux Yukon XL be a good idea or trying to hook up these speakers to the lux amp separately. Also did we decide that the Mic needs to be hooked up. Thanks

[sperry]

They weren't wired to the old crap amp from what I see immediately. The same connections on the lux says N/C on the crap amp.

 Note that UQ7  is the same whether crap amp or lux. They just add the pillar twiddlers on the suv's apparently. UQ7 I believe is just "keyed" as Bose, no matter what the variants of speakers are, it's just that it's a Bose set.

[dsrour]

From the schematic the D pillar speakers are wired in paralell w/ the  rear door speakers. Maybe it would be better to wire these as twidlers. Would you think the wiring would be in harness or would there be a separate harness for Y91

[loumiele]

need some help installing a nav radio in a 04 yukon denali

[loumiele]

The radio turns on but i have no audio. i Havereplaced the bose amp with preimum amp that is used in the hummer

[sperry]

From the schematic the D pillar speakers are wired in paralell w/ the rear door speakers. Maybe it would be better to wire these as twidlers. Would you think the wiring would be in harness or would there be a separate harness for Y91

Likely part of the harness...  Heck, go for it!
I'll see if I can post the Y91 UQ7 connections. `Need to find it..!

[sperry]

The radio turns on but i have no audio. i Havereplaced the bose amp with preimum amp that is used in the hummer

I replied to your PM, Lou... You may want to swap it back since your Denali should have a Luxury amp already. Need that HU part #!

[avarchitect]

Alright, sounds like that covered the thought...

As for the mic - I am pretty positive after playing with the amp without the mic that it is pretty much needed if you have one that is programmed to have it.  Not positive on what amps this would be but the I know the H2 15188044 amp does very funny things when the mic is not hooked up.  I will not claim that if you have this amp and are having problems with it that the mic will fix those problems - I just know that if I remove my mic the systems give me a ton of treble and very little bass - and the same is true with the mic miswired.

[sperry]

I know that I'm going to re-check mine! Especially the way yours acted.

That H2 diagram (mic wiring) is different than the others. I wonder if they know that?

[avarchitect]

I had two very interesting discoveries tonight review all of the install docs I have and the ones that keep modifying.  When I did the install with my 2003 AV and the H2 15188044 amp I was being lazy I guess and did not splice together the drain wires (E 2011 and B12 2099 on the UC6 together - I instead just left E 2011 taped and to the side and just used B12 2099 in B7 (which was suppose to be 2011 according to the wiring diagrams (I know lazyness is not good here)) but the B12 2099 was the same pin size as the hole I had in B7 and I didn't feel like doing another connect to a new pin that night.  Now I don't have time to test it tonight but I would be interested in seeing how the amp reacts to having the actual 2011 wire in the hole at B7 - could I have found the difference that makes the H2 amp work with the rest of the systems - I don't know, if someone gets to it before me try it.

I also had the old wiring diagram where we tape off the 4 wires B3 1946, B4 546, B5 1547, and B6 599 instead of running them to the RSA - I do have rear audio in the headphones back there, however when the unit is turned on in the rear it does not kill the rear speakers (actually like that fact) - the old amp when the RSA was on the rear speakers were disengaged.  Now those are the only two differences I have between the newest wiring file and my current setup.  I guess I should have maybe taken a look at this sooner...now I don't know a things about what the two drain wires do but could they make a difference in the amps performance??

Do I need to hook up the RSA wires per the new wiring diagram??  Is this what causes the rear speakers to turn off when it is on?

[sperry]

The RSA sends the mode change to the head unit. The HU rear LL outputs connect to the RSA directly in the class II, IF those stubbed off wires connect to it instead of "float". The fact that you get audio I can understand, as it's from the amp, which is just processed front audio (the AMP does the fading, etc.) but it won't switch out like you experienced. Not only that, it won't separate the source selection! (ie: AM on the back earphones FM on the front speakers)

So, wire the floaters to the RSA! And remove the wires that are from the amp.

599(Brown):B6, 1547(Dark Green-White):A6,  546(Dark Blue): B7, and 1946(Black): A7.

The rear low-level audio wires that the RSA used to loop through it, shouldn't be needed for the Lux amp, as it provides it's own rear speaker support. The data from the RSA will tell it to shut off the rear speakers if the mode depicts that operation.

[Avialanche]

If anybody comes up with a solution to high treble, no bass problem, please post what you did to solve problem............thanks........................ BTW             does anyone have the really low audio volume with Onstar problem also?    Have to crank radio vol up all the way just to barely be able to hear the Onstar computer voice.             

[dsrour]

I would be interested too.I 've tried a different part# amp 454, disconnected rear D pillar speakers,
rewired RSA, and recal. All to no avail. Have not tried mic yet since don't have one.

anyone have pn for terminals for amp, both sizes.
thanks

[avarchitect]

O.k. guys here is where I am at -
I got home this evening at 7:00 and have been working with the amp ever since - there is only two things I found wrong...

One:  The RSA wiring does not need to change on this unit - by changing the wiring I lost all audio out of the Headphones - so if you find that you don't have any sound out of the headphone jacks in the RSA and you rewired it - wire it back to factory settings
Sperry, I know you told me to rewire it according to the newest diagram - that is the main reason I ripped into the console again tonight - when I did I got no audio out of my headphone jacks - by switching back to factory settings the unit worked fine - and I can select AM while the front is listening to FM - I just can not listen to XM while the front is listening to a CD in the Slave unit - mainly because they share the same audio inputs into the rear of the radio so only one can come in at a time.  So I don't know - could it be the difference between the 334 and the 335 HU's??

LOW AUDIO PROBLEM:
Two: I am not sure about all of you who are having the low audio on the AM/FM/XM bands and Onstar but here is what I observed while trying to create the same problem on my amp/HU.  Switch your HU screen to the Audio Menu (the music note button) - Stroll down so you can see the Fade option (Front and Rear denoted by a F and a R) - at that screen hit your onstar button (any will do just don't hit your Red Cross one!!)  As soon as you press the button you should see the Fade selection switch to Full Front (White Bars fill the selection all the way toward your F side)  If the unit does this and you have very low to nothing audio then this is more than likely your problem for both the low volume and the lack of bass punch on your unit -

After removing the amp harnesses to check all this out I decided to run a couple of test - one - I removed all Low Level Audio Signal wires and plugged the harnesses back in - upon doing so - the HU came on and there was door chimes but NO AUDIO from the unit to the speakers - O.k. so the Low Audio Signal wires can not be the problem - next test...

I started removing speaker outputs from the harness - first the rear two sets of outputs - o.k so it killed the audio out of the rear door speakers but I could still hear Onstar fine and I still have bass coming from the unit pretty well.  So it wasn't the rear audio outputs...next test...

I removed the front audio outputs - WOW, this could be a problem - now the sub did not work, the front speakers did not work and guess what - as soon as I pressed Onstar - I couldn't hear a thing.  So I had the rear speakers only pushing the entire system - I had NO bass - some mid range audio but mainly treble only - and very low audio at that.

So the conclusion - I know no one want to hear this one but the wiring in the harness is either mixed up or in the wrong position.  Triple check the diagrams - wires and count spaces.  If you are receiving audio from the amp in more than one speaker, then it has to be in the connections somewhere.

The sub is completely driven by the two front audio channels - not the rear - so with everything working, as soon as I faded to full rear - the sub stops outputing - so a good test is turn the volume up and place your ear beside the front door speaker - does it have sound coming out of it??  If so, does the rear door speaker??  If so - do you feel air pushing out of the sub at all from the passager side??   The really big key is if all of the speakers are working but the sub - double check you wiring on Connector C2 and remember this connector's plugs go from Left to Right for the A-D plugs and Right to Left for the E-H plugs - see attachment below.

Onstar (thanks to the automatic setting in the HU) comes through the front audio channel only - and can not be changed to the rear audio - so run the Onstar test and see if it works or not.

Other than the above things - I am out of ideas and I have nothing else I can try on this unit to help you out.

Dsrour - you said you tried a different amp and got nothing (if I read your post correctly) out of the amp - if two different amps aren't working for you - I would have to guess that it is in the wiring somewhere - I don't know much about the 454 amp but I think that one requires programming unless you bought it used - Sperry is the guy for that one - I didn't have to program the amp to get audio out of it.  I am sure that just one or two wires misplaced in these harnesses can cause these amps to do weird things.

[dsrour]

Thanks Avarchitect. I first had 044 H2 amp, installed poor sound quality, tinny, etc, recal to no output. Then tried 454 amp sounds the same as 044 before cal.
So what do you do if you have the onstar problem?

[avarchitect]

Dsrour -
We will need to see what speakers you have working and what speaker you don't have - I best guess is that either there is a miss wired audio signal or we have a lose connection on a (or many) audio signals...turn the unit on and put your ear next to each door speaker (Driver Front, Driver Rear, Passager Front and Passager Rear).  Do you have audio at all four speakers??  If not which speaker(s) don't have audio at them??  While you are in the passager seat - put your hand down at the bottom of the dash - just reach around where the console stops down there and you should fill a little square hole (probably about a 3"x3" square - is there air coming out of it - any at all?? (that is the location of the sub in the console - with the system pushing correctly you should be able to feel air coming out of that hole).  Report back...

[sperry]

If anybody comes up with a solution to high treble, no bass problem, please post what you did to solve problem............thanks........................ BTW does anyone have the really low audio volume with Onstar problem also? Have to crank radio vol up all the way just to barely be able to hear the Onstar computer voice.

Mine did that at first - (just after it was programmed) But in my case it was an easy fix. While OnStar was connected, I just pressed the up volume on the steering wheel! `Hope yours is that!

[sperry]

Avialanche, did you D/L the latest X-Ref.  Maybe the skewing of those arrowed lines messed you up. It really sounds like something is crossed and / or out of phase.

Put in on AM or some mono source and fade it front & rear, checking each speaker. Then balance it L & R. You would know what to expect, so see it that helps in some diagnosis.

[dsrour]

have all speakers except don't think have Sub. If I havent subscribed to onstar would still be aproblem? Thanks

[sperry]

Maybe the Steering Wheel Volume will raise/lower it while pressing the "OnStar Ready" and "Goodbye" button on the other side.

Edit: Do that alternately, It looks like it won't work at the same time... You would be paralleling two of the resistors in the switch button network of the StWheel audio controls if you pressed them at the same time.

[dsrour]

Just checked it again. Onstar barely audible. No change w/ steering wheel control. Quite sure there is no SUB output

[avarchitect]

Well, I hate computer - I just had the entire response typed and internet explorer crashed - O.k. We need to check you wiring on Connector C2 ( the smaller one) - Double check all of these wires - the four subs for sure!!

B - Dark Green Wire
D - Light Green Wire / Black Stripped
E - Dark Blue Wire / White Stripped
G - Light Blue Wire / Black Stripped

[avarchitect]

Very important...Check the locations of how the Harness is Labeled in this diagram...

[avarchitect]

Note the E is not directly about A but instead is directly above D

[Avialanche]

Avialanche, did you D/L the latest X-Ref.  Maybe the skewing of those arrowed lines messed you up. It really sounds like something is crossed and / or out of phase.

Put in on AM or some mono source and fade it front & rear, checking each speaker. Then balance it L & R. You would know what to expect, so see it that helps in some diagnosis.

I've done the speaker check using Fader/Balance, all speakers work, but cannot determine for sure if sub is workiing or not since there's no bass in the audio signal.         Tried adjusting the volume while in Onstar mode,   no change in volume.     RSA & RSE also works.

[sperry]

Avarchitect... What are you referring to, the X-ref? A & D...

Avialanche...
WoW! What does it do with that other test?

And what about the nav lady's voice? Run that volume setting up & down on the nav screen, where she says " The volume will be set at this level".

[dsrour]

wiring appears to be right on small plug

[Avialanche]

The Nav lady's voice volume control works.

[sperry]

The Nav lady's voice volume control works.

OK, that leaves the amp out!(For the OnStar problem-Avialanche) The OnStar audio comes in on radio connector 2 and mixes to the same channel as the nav lady.

dsrour, does your "nav lady" work ok?

[avarchitect]

I am down here right now with the truck - if I mess up one of the subs input it does nothing to the rest of the system - I am beginning to think that the HU themselves might be bad - Sperry you certainly have more experience in this than I do...

[Avialanche]

Will check speaker connector at amp tommorrow night,   console is closed up,   but i've checked both connectors at least three time and had a reference manual(Factory service books) to use in conjuction with the Y91 Rewire downloads.

[Avialanche]

In reference to the VSS wire,  if the Nav screen starts moving as soon as i start moving,  then the VSS is connected correctly right?

[avarchitect]

have you checked in behind the radio itself - things are tight back there - you didn't happen to get the 12 pin input connector on the back of the radio pinched - my 12 pin and radio connectors are really hard to push all the way in - I really have to put some force behind them to get them to snap in - do you have good audio with a CD in the system?? - Bass and all??

[dsrour]

No don't have nav lady.

[dsrour]

Bad tone w/ CD as well

[Avialanche]

I watched carefully as to what happens to the wire harnesses as i put the radio back in,  they have to be routed in certain way so they don't get pinched between Rear support and rear of radio.        No bass with cd or Xm,  but a little better with FM.

[dsrour]

Sounds like I have exactly the same problem. FM sounds the best

[Avialanche]

I watched carefully as to what happens to the wire harnesses as i put the radio back in,  they have to be routed in certain way so they don't get pinched between Rear support and rear of radio.        No bass with cd or Xm,  but a little better with FM.          Could this have somthing to do with the fact that XM and CD are Digital audio signals that might be processed by the Amp and that FM is unaffected because it's analog?             

[sperry]

With three of you at once, it's a bit confusing... Need to know who has what probs and recap once in a while!

Avia... Give the nav little chance to aquire the sats after you start up and start moving. Then make a turn soon. If the arrow pauses a bit or keeps going straight, then jumps to where you are, yep! you have it.

Avarch...  You have a good point there; a connector pushed back or a wire pinched... could be.

Avia... sounds more like one of the woofer windings is wired out of phase, like was suggested prior. FM doesn't have the separation of a CD or XM, so maybe that has something to do with it. What throws me with that theory is not much change when the balance is shifted from left to rt. A woofer (in this system) would be nulled out if it was wired with one pair crossed, when centered.

Any of those speakers shorted to ground? I believe the amp would shut down if that was the case, but... This is just weird.

`This would sure be easier in a shop with a lot of spare goodies and test equipment!

[avarchitect]

Sounds more like there is a problem with the 12 pin connection in the rear of the radio - either the connector isn't in all the way or something - both XM, CD changer and Onstar comes in on that 12 pin connector...do you have a changer or are you saying it sound bad with a cd in the actual unit?  Also you say FM sounds the best - but does it sound normal or still very crappy??