2nd Cad Nav in the Av - In & Working! PART 2

[sperry]

BTW, I have one here from an 04... With antenna.

[pbuilder]

How much do you want for it.
Scott

[sperry]

PM me...

It needs the harness/conn.

[smokinfish]

Duramax -

Does the 15194112 harness have the connections that go into the back of the headunit as well?

Thanks for all your help!

[duramaxHD]

smokinfish--- no, the HU connections are part of another harness in the dashboard...if you pull up the cupholder in your console, you will see a huge  connector...thats the main connector for the console that connects it to everything else in the Avy.

----Ben

[sperry]

You see where it goes to the connector C306, then to SP250.
The image expands; how, depends on your browser.

Edit: Typo...

[smokinfish]

Cool thanks guys!

So duramax are you thinking you can plug that escalde harness directly into your main harness?
Did you ever find out where the CD changer wires go to?
I wonder if the cd changer runs into that console big block that attaches to the block in the dash?
So the splice would actualy happen in the console and not on the HU harness?

Sperry any reason the escalade harness couldn't be plugged into the main harness in the dash?
If he is using the LUX amp, mic and the RSA, The only thing I would think that would be non-existant would be the back seat heaters.

In a sense, my main question is the same as yours duramax can the console harness of the escalade be used to plug and play the CD changer, lux amp, mic. In my case I already have the rsa.

hmmm...... could that harness make this a plug and play conversion?? How sweet would that be!

[sperry]

The Cadillac's have some control boxes back there too. As far as what I would expect, and except for the amp wiring, the connectors may still retain the common wiring. I'll see if I can dig up something more on c306.

[duramaxHD]

The physical connectors are all the same...but who knows what the pin-outs look like compared to non-lux vehicles! I dont think its quite plug and play. For one thing the wires to the amp have to be different. Then theres the CDX and rear seat heater wiring...who knows which pins those two devices correspond to on the main "huge" 30 pin connector... I spent half an hour with a multimeter and found the +12V pin!! woohoo!! 29 more pins to go...
Steve do you know where I could find a pin-out for this "main" connector (on a lux vehicle) sorry...i feel like this is kinda digressing from the topic

-----Ben

[sperry]

That's what I was talking about.. When I get a chance... Issues at work gettin' in the way

[smokinfish]

Work is slow today so I'm posting more than usual.

I don't think it is far off topic, this would just be another phase of the nav topic.
Sperry?
Basically I would like to be able to use this harness in my existing console so I can hook up my lux amp, mic, 6 disc changer & nav and rsa. This would allow for a plug and play conversion. Pipe Dream maybe. But we are not far off.

One would think that GM is just switching out consoles, and the dash unit would be the same. But who knows??

Worst case one could use the harness for splicing.

Duramax what kind of console/harness do you have in your silvy?

Let me know what you find out about the CD Changer splicing into the console harness.

[sperry]

One would want to check for missing wires on the other end.. Like the class II data wire that goes to SP 207. The one for the RSA will be there but the changer and amp?? Things like that...

[lungin]

I picked up an '884 LUX amp today on E-bay.  Is this the amp that had problems in the H2?  Does someone have this one working as part of a chevy upgrade?  I'm thinking about trying to pick up a back-up amp so that I have two while I've got everything apart and then just selling the extra after I'm done.  Any advice?

thanks,

Brad

[duramaxHD]

Brad--- The '884 amps are good... I believe 'linda' (jimmy) over at the GM Trucks forum says these are the amps that he deals with (buys, programs, sells to people doing the upgrade like us) because they generally have very good compatibility. I know one of the H2 amps did have problems, but i dont think it was the '884s. The only ones that are known NOT to work are the 15054675 amps...I forget where i read that but its here in my big Word document of various general "notes" about the nav upgrade.

----Ben

[sperry]

I believe the problem was selecting the cadillac codes instead of the H2 setup!
But that's IF you were needing to reprogram it.

Jimmy felt that he should set it up for his truck and the working amp went out!
Up to that point, it sounded like a good idea. We learned much from his inconvenience to.

[ZzBudd]

If I may,  I would like to add my name to the growing numbers of TNR Nav in '04 Av's.
After my son-in-law bought his '05 Hummer w/ TNR and I played with it, I went straight to my dealer to get one ordered for my Av. Sure enuff' I was told that it couldn't be done. Then I started reading this thread. After several weeks of reading and watching how some of these installs were going (and not going), I decided to get the  package that JP Customs is offering. I can say one thing, if you want a trouble free install with no hassle, it is well worth the price (which, I might add) isn't much more money. if any, than trying to gather all the parts together from eBay and other sources. Not to mention, it's new and there are no trips to the dealer etc. He has very detailed instructions and everything needed for you to install a TNR Nav system.  True, there is several steps involved and I would recommend that the installer have some experience with hand tools, etc and just go by the step-by-step instructions that come with the package.(I did not go w/ the Lux amp because I am happy with the premium Bose system). It took me about 2 hrs.
I am totally blown away by this system and how it works. A very satisfied and happy customer of JP Customs.
I apologize for the long post, but I felt like good news deserves to be posted. And I hope it's okay to toot JP's horn! Thanks, Zz

[pbuilder]

Now that say it all how easy it is to do this install.

[sperry]

Unfortunately for the dealers, it's their loss! Maybe they have to say that?

Well, not really, they call their contract installer. Now that they know how.. I wonder how they found out .

Most in my area will do it, as the installers contract with the area dealers.

Now, with the premium interface, there's no excuse at all for them to say that; just plain stupid and/or lazy. They're a business and except for the VSS wire (earlier Av's) and the GPS antenna mount, it's no harder that the R&R of the UC6 HU! So they turn away their bread & butter.

[holstbnet]

OK gang so I ended up creating a monster of my own in the S10 forum (albeit not 29 pages) about factory navigation. A few people wanted me to reiterate a couple of points, so I did. Let me know if what I'm saying is correct:

Yep... what you've got is how I understand it.
There's three main types of navigation HUs:
1 - HU which requires no amp whatsoever. This apparently is a rare one, if it in fact exists.
2 - HU which would require either an aftermarket or Bose amp. This system is called the Bose Premium system, and it has a "dumb" amp hooked to the head unit the same way an aftermarket one is. In other words, there isn't any talking going on between the head unit and the amp, the amp is just doing it's job and "amping" the sound passing through it.
3 - HU which requires the Bose luxury amp.. this one is commonly called the "LUX" setup or the incorrectly titled "Y91 option." This setup is where the Bose amp and the head unit talk to each other over the Class 2 network, and it also has a noise cancelling microphone that is mounted in the cab so it adjusts volume and other sound qualities based on ambient noise. It's overkill, and you COULD hook it up in an S/T truck but it would be a royal pain in the ass, with all the wiring you'd need.

That being said: Each radio out there that has a different part number even if they all look the same is due to which chassis they belong in. The full size pickups are a different chassis than the S/T trucks, which are different from the H2, the Escalade/Denali/Suburban, etc. They are usually coded with a GMTxxx number so you can figure out what chassis they belong in.

It was originally thought that an Escalade radio can't go in a Silverado, and a H2 radio couldn't go in a S/T truck, and so forth. Even the dealers will tell you that. They say it's incompatible. "You can't put navigation in that truck!! etc" It's NOT because a particular head unit is necessarily incompatible with the vehicle. It's because certain radios are designed for certain vehicles depending on whether that vehicle comes with premium or lux amps, XM radio, whatever. In order to keep mechanics from putting a non Bose HU in a truck that has a Bose amp, etc what they did was lock out the option on the Tech 2 scanner. So lets say you want to put navigation in a S-10. You install the HU and it powers up but it locks on you. You fire up a Tech 2, and tell it you are working on a 2003 S-10 pickup (this is called Building the vehicle). You go to program radio, and navigation isn't an option. That is just a "lockout" of sorts. It's so you don't do something they don't want you to do. BUT, if you tell the Tech 2 that you are working on an Escalade, for example, it doesn't know that you are really hooked to an S-10. Navigation radio shows up in the menu, and Voila!

Does that make sense? If you are a typical dealership and follow the rules, then it looks like you can't do a lot of stuff. But if you play around, you can probably get ANY new style Delphi radio to work in any newer GM car with the Class 2 databus.

In my case, no problems, got the radio going... now I just have to get the Bose amp to complete the install.. but it isn't hurting anything, I just don't have any bass at the moment. I could just amp it with an aftermarket amp, since my radio is only the premium and not the LUX unit but I want to just keep it all factory style. I'm not really an audiophile anyways...

Am I way off or is that about right? If I had a ton of cash laying around I'd go and buy a Tech 2 and a pile of INRs, TNRs and UC6 units and just try programming them in all sorts of cars. Imagine a TNR in a stripped down 2000 Cavalier? Or a Monte Carlo/Impala? Makes me wonder.

And, as I had mentioned above: What's the deal with the Y91 designation? Y91 is the RPO for a Sierra Denali pickup. It has nothing to do with audio systems or amplifiers.

[flyingdutchman]

From the following link http://www.gmtechlink.com/images/issues/cnt_mo/TLcme.html#story16

This information appllies to the following 2004-05 vehicles with the UM8 Navigation Radio Sound System:
- Buick Rendezvous and Rainier
- Cadillac Escalade, ESV, and EST
- Chevrolet Avalanche, Tahoe, Suburban, TrailBlazer and EXT
- GMC Yukon, XL, Denali, Envoy, XL and XUV
- HUMMER H2 SUVand SUT

Customers may comment that their navigation radio system does not have complete coverage for their area. This may be due to recent construction, or changes to public access roads or highways.

2005 model vehicles should contain the latest navigation DVD disk release, version 3.0  If not, refer to service bulletin 04-08-126-001.

2004 model vehicles should contain an earlier navigation DVD disk release, such as version 2.0.

TIP: The New Vehicle Warranty does not cover cases in which the customer requests an updated navigation DVD. However, customers can purchase the DVD disk, release version 3.0, under part number 10390370.

[sperry]

Y91 isn't a designator for the amp or luxury audio on it's own, nor is it exclusive to the Denali.
Y91: Luxury Edition/Version (Escalades and Denali's)
Y92: Special editions (Northface, etc)

I had seen a Denali with the crap amp! (Early 04 model) but that doesn't mean they all have it or not. It's the likelyhood that they have the Lux one.
However, there's  more assurance with the Escalades.

The Luxury audio systems have been in Special edition vehicles, however I have never heard of it in a (OEM) NorthFace Av.

Maybe not catagorize the Lux amp just because of the Noise-cancelling mic/system. Read up on AudioPilot. There is a bit of audio quality advantage - at least on GMT800 trucks.

The Envoy, at least has a class II amp version that would better match the S-10. (Same family of entertainment devices). Look for one with three connectors, and match it with a Lux HU. You can shut off the mic/noise comp anyway.

So, you could be not only be the first with a nav in the S-10, keep going  and be the first with a luxury system too! And XM?

----------

Earlier than the 03 S10 will likely not work UNLESS, the VIN learn will not process or just not complete and the radio will power-up in the default splash screen. The comm protocol is different. (And if one could fit it.) You may want to spread that caution unless a work-around comes about! The base system or dumb amp system may have a better chance than that of a lux system.

[sperry]

From the following link http://www.gmtechlink.com/images/issues/cnt_mo/TLcme.html#story16

This information appllies to the following 2004-05 vehicles with the UM8 Navigation Radio Sound System:
- Buick Rendezvous and Rainier
- Cadillac Escalade, ESV, and EST
- Chevrolet Avalanche, Tahoe, Suburban, TrailBlazer and EXT
- GMC Yukon, XL, Denali, Envoy, XL and XUV
- HUMMER H2 SUVand SUT

Customers may comment that their navigation radio system does not have complete coverage for their area. This may be due to recent construction, or changes to public access roads or highways.

2005 model vehicles should contain the latest navigation DVD disk release, version 3.0 If not, refer to service bulletin 04-08-126-001.

2004 model vehicles should contain an earlier navigation DVD disk release, such as version 2.0.

TIP: The New Vehicle Warranty does not cover cases in which the customer requests an updated navigation DVD. However, customers can purchase the DVD disk, release version 3.0, under part number 10390370

The link you used may "time out" with the next issue. Here's a more "permanent" one: http://www.gmtechlink.com/images/issues/feb05/TLFeb05e.html#story16

[holstbnet]

So, you could be not only be the first with a nav in the S-10, keep going  and be the first with a luxury system too! And XM?

Well, I will have XM this spring for sure, nav + onstar are done... but I think I am going to hold off on the Lux system just because I already have this non-Lux INR and I'm not in the mood to spend more money on a Lux HU. I will most likely end up switching to a TNR at some point, and when I do I'll get the Lux stuff then. Baby steps. ;-)

Earlier than the 03 S10 will likely not work UNLESS, the VIN learn will not process or just not complete and the radio will power-up in the default splash screen. The comm protocol is different. (And if one could fit it.) You may want to spread that caution unless a work-around comes about! The base system or dumb amp system may have a better chance than that of a lux system.

Well, that won't be a concern, because it wasn't until really late '02 to '03 that S/T trucks got the Delphi radios with the 24/12 pin, RDS etc and double-DIN dashboards. Kinda like the Avalanche thing.. if you have a 1.5 DIN Delco, you can't fit a INR/TNR in your dash anyways, so it's irrelevant that the comm protocol is different.

While we are on this subject, has anyone figured out a way to bench test a new style Delphi HU? You can hook them to power but all that happens is the clock will display, and it will take/eject CDs. Would you need a BCM on the bench as well? Then you could run power to the BCM and the radio, and connect the class 2 wire from the BCM to the Class 2 on the HU?

[sperry]

My mentioning "fit" was including that too... Entirely different connectors. and 1.5 DIN

The tech's have a setup but I didn't expect them to give away their secret.

I know that when I retire from my current job,  Guess where I'm going to apply first!

Maybe, but talk about a stack of DTC's that would set..!

[pbuilder]

Well I can say my North face did not have the Lux amp. Would have be nice but then this might not be a hot topic now. Dam.