2nd Cad Nav in the Av - In & Working! PART 3

[sperry]

Refer to Part 2 (Beginning) or (end) or continue with the topic here....

Or: 2nd Cad Nav in the Av - In & Working! PART 1 ( Beginning), or (End)

Edit: Linking.

[smokinfish]

Ok refering to the schematic -
B10 Dk Blu wire on C1 connector where is that coming from?
Do I need to take the Dk Blu Wire from the rsa connector and attach it here?
Gracias

[sperry]

OK, that print was just more handy..

The splice pack is the normal factory connection where accessory outputs are parallel tapped.

 The more-direct method, as it's more easily accessed, is the head unit connector 2.

[smokinfish]

OK still little confused, So I will need to run a whole new wire for B10 on the amp connector?
Doesn't the rsa have a class 2 wire?

Which is the class 2 wire on that HU connector?

B10      DK BLU      2272      Amplifier Class 2 Serial Data

[sperry]

Hmmmm, now you have me confused!

You asked about the cdx having one channel out... I didn't recall you mentioning the RSA.

Your issue was with the CDX (Actually MDX) not having audio in one channel. If other devices operate OK, then refer to the diagrams.

If it's another problem such as a data connection, I'll continue on that..

Yes, you can connect that wire to the RSA (A1). The routing of the amp's class II wire to SP207 is factory, as SP207 is a class II "HUB" for several devices.

Electrically, it's the same but if class II was a higher data rate, that wouldn't be advisable.

There were no known problems I had heard of at this point, however it isn't a standard factory connection and could be a problem in the future for someone trying to sort out a fault... But then again, neither is the amp wiring and replacement... So no biggie..

[smokinfish]

Ok Sperry I think you have me confused with somone else.
I asking not for the cdx but for the lux install.
When installing the lux amp the c1 connector for the lux amp calls for a a DK BLU 2272 Amplifier Class 2 Serial Data  for B10.

My question is where does this wire come from and do I need to run a new one.
Is there a class 2 dk blue wire in the rsa that I can disconnect and connect it to B10 on C1. Since the rsa won't run on class 2 anymore anyways?

[sperry]

RSA should work on the lux system since it's a class II device, It's just switched differently. So you just tap the connection instead of move it.

In the premium system, the rear channels route through the RSA to the dumb amp's rear inputs.

In the Luxury system the rear HU outputs are exclusively for the RSA. The Lux amp processes and controls the rear outputs (and muting for RSA operation), internally. All derived and processed from the front audio pair. The class II controls all that, between the amp, RSA and the HU.

[sperry]

Yes, I did have you mixed up.. With the topic break handling and all, I guess that's what it was

Hopefully lungin can make sense of the prints I posted for his issue..

[smokinfish]

Thanks for the info Sperry.

Next question, do you have a diagram for the rsa connector?
In looking at the Y91 harness the rsa has alot less wires. Should the wires in my non Y91 mimic the Y91 Harness? Or should I just leave all those wires intact?

Is the rsa effected by programming the amp?
Should the rsa work if the amp isn't programmed?

Gracias!

[sperry]

My RSA had audio before my amp was procrammed or even wired correctly.

The Lux has fewer wires because you don't have to route that rear audio back to the amp.

The wires that don't say "Except Y91" are inputs from the HU rear audio out.

RSA Connector PinOuts:
       
Connector Part Information      12110206   
      24-Way F Micro-Pack 100 Series (LT BLU)   
         
Pin   Wire Color   Circuit No.   Function
         
A1   LT BLU   2288   RSA Class 2 Serial Data
         
A2   ORN   340   Battery Positive Voltage
         
A3   --   --   Not Used
         
A4   BLK/WHT   1851   Ground
         
A5   BARE   2099   Drain Wire (Except Y91)
         
A6   DK GRN/WHT   1547   Left Rear Low Level Audio Signal (-)
         
A7   BLK   1946   Right Rear Low Level Audio Signal (-)
         
A8   DK GRN/WHT   1547   Left Rear Low Level Audio Signal (-) (Except Y91)
         
A9   BLK   1946   Right Rear Low Level Audio Signal (-) (Except Y91)
         
A10-A12   --   --   Not Used
         
B1-B4   --   --   Not Used
         
B5   BARE   2099   Drain Wire
         
B6   BRN   599   Left Rear Low Level Audio Signal (+)
         
B7   DK BLU   546   Right Rear Low Level Audio Signal (+)
         
B8   BRN   599   Left Rear Low Level Audio Signal (+) (Except Y91)
         
B9   DK BLU   546   Right Rear Low Level Audio Signal (+) (Except Y91)
         
B10-B12   --   --   Not Used

[lungin]

I'm following you Sperry.   So I'm looking at H, J, and K on the smaller HU connector to hopefully find my problem, correct?  I'm guessing that H is probably lose or a bad connection, because when I first completed the install, it didn't work.  I tested again, and it did.  Then I put everything back together and found that it wasn't working again.  Hopefully that's it.  The radio is definitely functioning correctly, only the cd shows this problem.  I'll keep you updated!

Thanks for the help!

Brad

[sperry]

At least you know it's a bad connection instead of a mis-wire..

You'll get it soon, no doubt....

[smokinfish]

So should the rsa wiring just stay as is?
Or should any (except Y91) connections be tied off.

Another interesting note is that my Y91 harness has NO Drain Wires (B5) connected to the rsa. There is only B6 BRN and B7 DRK BLU.

Also when wiring the CDX the harness needs to be tied into wires that are behind the HU. What is the recommended method??
Wire taps?
Cut the wire and tie all three ends together?
Some how peel back the wire shield on the HU wire and tie in there and then solder?
I like the idea of the last one but how do you move the jacket down if the connector is on the end??

Thanks for all your help!! I'm learning alot!!

[sperry]

When the amp connectors are rewired, the RSA wires are stubbed off there. No need to duplicate the effort at the RSA .

[lungin]

Theftlock cleared and all is well....except for the CD changer, which I'll look at tonight. 

The dealer service asst. manager asked when I brought it in if I knew the VIN of the vehicle the NAV came out of.  I told him I didn't think he'd need it and produced the instructions printed off of this site.  He took it back to his tech and returned in about five minutes to tell me it was done and it went smoothly.  He said they had never done it that way before, so I think we taught them something.  The best part.....no charge! 

On another note, has anyone used the soundgate KNGM1 to add sirius with the LUX Nav/cd changer setup?  Tech support at Soundgate indicated that they weren't sure if it would work with the cd changer.   


Brad

[sperry]

If they use the same address of the CD changer, of course there will be a conflict. If they just seek an open port, and you have no RSE or XM, then that would (with little doubt anyway) work.

Just ask them if the adapter will work on Escalades or Denali's. If so, then the retrofit Lux system with the changer in the Av should have the same result..

[sperry]

Good to hear of another dealer that treats their customers like that.

Many that find out how, tend to not charge. The other's, unless they can print the same document from their Dealer World / SI terminal, don't usually want to bother or "take the chance".

[smokinfish]

Ok I was checking out the front pillar tweeters today, and they are wired kind of funky.

From the connector to the tweeters are 2 wires but from the connector to the dash harness there are four wires. If I want to tie in to the lux amps front tweeter connections, how could I connect it at the connector that goes from the dash?
That way I can still disconnect the tweeters and pull out the dpillar cover with no problem??

Are these really tweeters like in the Lux vehicles or are they a hybrid because non lux run stereo through them??

As always THANK YOU!

[younghog]

Alright I'm very close to installing this LUX SYSTEM. 

A finally got a brain knock via gmcjimmyguy that I do have the RADIO C2 connector since I have XM.. So all items are in place.

Looking at the C2 schematic and talking offline with DuraMax. I'm seriously looking at adding a HANDSFREE or at least the option to listen to my cell phone caller through PIN L AND PIN M..

Has anyone done this? Can't find much on this when searching.

I did find this thread..

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,35349.40.html

Advise on how I can say HERE and have the thread link in my post as standard
html doesn't seem to work i.e. a word link to an html url...  So I don't have to copy the entire link on my posts.

But on the thread above it looks like I can install the handsfree kit or a portion of it. Does the kit use the Audiopilot mic or another mic?

Reading that thread.. It didn't look like z71mann
completed it so has anyone done this..

Yes I read the thread but it didn't detail and seemed to just end as z71mann didn't list if he completed the mic install.

Can someone advise and post part #s instructions etc.

YOUNGHOG

--EDITED.. SHOULD READ SINCE I HAVE 'XM'

[smokinfish]

Think I would just switch to verizon. It would be way easier!

http://www.verizonwireless.com:8080/onstar/

[sperry]

Younghog:

You have this:

Code:

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,35349.40.html

You want this:

Code:

[url=http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,35349.40.html]HERE[/url]

Would show this: HERE

Adding a few other BB codes to it like this:

Code:

[url=http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,35349.40.html][u]HERE[/u][/url]

Would make it like this: HERE

 

[sperry]

You can even click on a smiley!

These are separated in two parts so the screen wasn't too wide from a single line. Only you would enter it as a single line.

Code:

[url=http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php/topic,35349.40.html]

Code:

[img]http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/Smileys/cafcna/smiley.gif[/img][/url]

Click here:

This would work for other images too.

Edit: Two-parted the last code  - `Was too wide for presentation.

[teksavy]

Hi Sperry-

I've been enjoying all the posts on the TNR Nav solution. Your assistance is amazing. What an asset to the club. It is amazing how much the nav stuff has taken off!

I've been enjoying all of the info on the 3 part mega thread and think that I have most of the info.

I do, however, have a couple of questions that I cannot seem to find the answers for and hope that you can help.

1)Is the microphone used on the AudioPilot used for voice commands too? Or is there a seperate mic?

2)How do you issue a voice command? When I press the "talking head guy" button on my steering wheel, OnStar comes on. Does this button get overloaded when you are in navigation mode?

3)For the mic on the AudioPilot, when I order it, does it come with the harness so that I can put pins onto the lux amp connector? What else do I need to install the mic? Can I use any mic?

Thanks alot!

-Ed

[sperry]

Hi Ed! Where have you been?

The Delphi units don't have voice command, only the Denso ones do, so far.. (OEM that is..)

The Lux/AudioPilot mic (in the console) is separate from the OnStar mic (by the rear-view mirror).

[younghog]

Hi Ed! Where have you been?

The Delphi units don't have voice command, only the Denso ones do, so far.. (OEM that is..)

The Lux/AudioPilot mic (in the console) is separate from the OnStar mic (by the rear-view mirror).

That answered a lot of things i.e. 'Delphi units don't have voice command'

Could or is the audiopliot mic used in handsfree install?

Thanks for the code instructions.. I know html.. but just couldn't get that thing to work.. 


SmokinFish

Think I would just switch to verizon. It would be way easier!

http://www.verizonwireless.com:8080/onstar/

Your link does not work.. And i'm just going to skip the mic route and do my install tomorrow.

Roy

[sperry]

That's BB Code!

Regardless, no prob!

[teksavy]

Thanks for the info Sperry. I look forward to seeing you soon. Perhaps MegaMeetII?

That certainly clears things up. So it sounds like the microphone isn't really worth it. Opinions? Its $25 through GM parts direct.

Sperry- I'm sorry if this has been discussed ad nasuem, but some remaining clarification questions:

1)Do I need to order a special pin extraction tool, or can I make a paperclip work to extract the pins. Some said yes, others said no.

2)Do I need to order a bag of leads to make connections? The replies I saw seemed to contradict each other.

3)If I get a lux amp, does it need to be programmed by the tech 2? I think that if it was in a car before, than no, but if it is new, then yes. Correct?

4)Is there a central repository where one can get the tech 2 programming instructions and the pinout wiring diagram, or do I need to wade through the oodles of posts. I found the wiring diagram, but is way WAY back and I want to make sure I have the latest one.

5)Can I T-tap the VSS signal from the cluster and run to the micropack connector, or do both pins need to be removed from each connector (inst cluster and radio.)

In regards to the Verizon/Onstar thing, you need to have an 04 AV and up with digital hardware. Even if you lie to them saying that you upgraded the OnStar unit to digital, they will deny you. I tried. There is a digitial transisition page on OnStar that is supposed to be updated with retrofit information. Here is the site:
Digital Transistion FAQ


Thanks again!

-Ed

[sperry]

From what I have as a confirmation, If it's analog, digital ready, it will upgrade. 02's are out, 03 through mid 04 , you need to wait for them to contact you. Anotherwords, If it says "OnStar ready", it will upgrade. If it has "Digit Dial" it won't need anything but a likely programming update, if at all.

As far as the Vorizen deal, the analog is out, unless/until it's upgraded to digital..

[sperry]

5) Yep! But you need a terminal for pin "E" of radio connector 2. UNLESS you have an audio adapter that has that wire already. Then just tap to it.

4) Those are on the site in this (earlier in #2) topic but not an established home yet (planned though). The needle in the haystack problem though. Even I have to search for it and it's my post! When I get a chance, I can e-mail it though.

3) It doesn't seem so any more. Most amps work from the box. I would get an vin from an EXT and get the latest for it. That way if it is pre-programmed, at least the correct number of speakers and acoustic setup is for your truck.

2) you can steal them from the RSA wires that are removed. But new ones are usually a 2- day order at a dealer. They list @ $8.80 a bag of 10.

1) I use a tiny screwdriver. All it has to do is push a latch tab aside. It's a little tougher than a  paper clip. The micro type terminal extractor tool, is a #7740, from SPX KentMoore Page 44 of their A7000 catalog.

Or, you can see what I did in this mod post HERE

[teksavy]

Thanks for the answers Sperry. One (last, hopefully) question. Since my stock stereo has SCV, I assume it is picking up the VSS. How came it needs to be tapped from the inst cluster?

The only thing that I can think of is that the radio gets the speed from class 2 data and not a pulsed signal like the VSS. Am I right?

-Ed

PS:I tried emailing you, but your email is hidden and I cannot PM you since you aren't accepting PMs. Please email the Tech 2 instructions and wiring changes when you get a chance. Plus I'd like to talk to you offline if possible.

[smokinfish]

Ok I'm Confused. The mic on the Lux is just a ambient noise mic right?
All it does is adjust the volume of the radio to go with the sound inside the truck.
Correct?

As far as the verizon thing, your chevy dealer should be able to upgrade you from analog to digital. And then you can use your onstar as a phone via verizon. The best is you don't have to buy those stupid onstar minutes!! RIP OFF!!

One more thing if I want to add the USASPEC aux input SVG 707 that accesses the RSE on the radio. Should I install that first before I have the lux amp programmed and tell them I have a rsa hook up or does it matter?

[sperry]

OK guys, here's what the mic does: AudioPilot 101.

[sperry]

Ed, the VSS for the SCV is within the class II BUS, the live VSS for "more important" modules and a "smooth" speedo indication, Cruize control, ABS, trans, safety features, rear wheel steering, etc. is what they use for the nav, so it'll keep working (in the same direction though) in tunnels, and so-on.

[sperry]

smokinfish,
      Regardless of the adapter, the RSE's fuse needs to be removed prior to programming. IF programming is needed. It would likely be a better practice to remove power from such an adapter also.

If I remember, the INFO fuse (the one OnStar uses also) is the one to remove. Pull it and see!

[sperry]

Found another source for some OEM terminals: Sherco OEM Type Terminals

[masterp2]

A little VSS switch humor:  In my truck, if it is navigating, the VSS switch pretty much locks up the TNR, no movement at all, the truck is "frozen".

I mention this because it is a quick way to disable the "misses" voice if you want to have some peace and quiet w/o taking your attention to go thru the menus to do it.

[sperry]

It will do that; When I hooked mine up, it didn't budge for five minutes, then 2, then 30 seconds, then less and less until it smoothed out, as I was driving. Soon after, I had the codes cleared. No entertainment DTC's since.

However, I didn't install a switch, so I don't have the on & off...

[duramaxHD]

Steve--     I went ahead and purchased a 5 day subscription to the AC Delco "TDS" because I figured I could get lots of info and schematics and general "stuff" for my Escalade/lux console installation in my truck. (physically its a direct swap with my current standard console...but electrically the harnesses dont match ) Well here I am deep into the thousands of pages in this INCREDIBLE database!! Its so hard to stay on track and just search for what I need...Ill see a schematic for something else cool and check it out...then something else etc...before you know it im way off track.
BUT one thing I am curious about. Is there any way to "save" all the info (pictures and everything intact) on a certain page to my computer so I can look at it again when my subscription expires??? So far the only way I see is to to "print screen" and then paste it into Photoshop and save it as a jpeg. Of course this gets a little frustrating.. And also, I cant enlarge the pictures because Internet Explorer is just being a pain and it wont even let me log into the TDS database when I try with Mozilla Firefox (which deals with large pics better). How do you do it? Thanks!

----Ben

[sperry]

This was found in the April 2005 Techlink just posted here:

This is the UB0 & UB1, however some tips may be useful..

Radio Reprogramming:

This information applies to 2005 Buick Rainier, 2005 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT, 2005 Chevrolet Avalanche, Express, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer EXT, 2005 GMC Envoy, Envoy XL, Envoy XUV, Savana, Sierra, Yukon, Yukon XL, Denali, 2005 HUMMER H2 with CD Player Radio (RPOs UB0 or UB1).

Some customers may comment about one of the following conditions:
- Long CD load-to-play time
- CD ejects with an error message of CHECK CD
- CD does not return to previous track after an ignition cycle
- The clock resets to 12:00.
- CD stuck in player, CD won’t play, or won’t eject without any indication of clicking noises and/or mechanical operation.

DO NOT replace the radio for these conditions.

A software anomaly within the radio has been found. Reprogram the radio with an updated software calibration. This new service calibration was released with TIS satellite data update version 2.0 available February 7, 2005.

TIP: A unique labor operation number R0125 covers this Radio -- Reprogram (0.4 hr.). This number will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.

TIP: Be sure your Tech 2 is updated with the latest software version.

TIP: Advise the customer that home-burned CDs must be burned with a "closed session" or the formatting will be incomplete and the player will not read the CD. CDs should not have adhesive paper labels affixed to them, because the labels may lift off in the player.

- Thanks to Doug Daugherty, GM Techlink.

[sperry]

Ben, Download firefox and when you get used to it/like it, make it your default browser.

Right clicking on an image to view or copy it has been very handy for me!

It's e-mail companion is Thunderbird, I feel it's easier to manage records and catagorize your archived e-mails.

When I right click on an image in a GM document, I can first, get the fit-in-page view, I click on the (+) and can get the native size!

Or, among other easily accessed options, you can save it or "Save to" another name. Makes it easy!

[sperry]

BTW, not all the files at once! You will need to coordinate your filing structure, prefix name format each document, save as an html. That makes a directory for the images and you can reference it later offline. I use the format as: 1234567-89_Name_Of_The_Doc.htm, in the appropriate sub-directory. It will make it's own attachment directory if needed, under the same name, with "_Files" appended instead of .htm...

The "89" is just the model year, if it's specific.

[duramaxHD]

Ahh thanks Steve...I got it. I tried Firefox originally, but it would not let me log into the AC Delco TDS site. Im guessing I just have to mess around with the cookies settings... Boy I was cruisin thruogh those pages like a mad man grabbing and saving everything I could!! BUT I hit jackpot when I was in the "2005 Denali" section. I found the "C306" connector pinout (thats the HUGE "main" body-to-console connector). However, last time (Im pretty sure it was you who sent me the pinout of it a while ago), for some reason the pinout did not have the Lux (Y91) version. So I had no way of knowing how my console harness plug was different from the NON-lux harness plugs. This new 2005 Denali C306 pinout has both non-Y91 and Y91 pinouts. For guys who want to do the Denali/Escalade console upgrade, its as good as gold! I attached it for anyone who is looking to do a console swap.

---Ben

[sperry]

Ben, the board sizes the images here. If the native width resolution is greater than 500, the text will distort. If you want to upload a larger image, use the album button above. Find "Submit" after your album is created. You can load much larger images but when they display, they are similar to the size here.. HOWEVER, when you click on them - WOW!

As an example: Click HERE

If you have FireFox, click on the doc image. Unless you're running a hell of a Hi-Res screen, you'll see it's larger.. But still unclear. With the (+) mag glass mouse pointer over it, click it again, there's the clean image.

The WoW isn't over, proceed down into the console R&R files and try it on some of those images IF the (+) shows. (The first one doesn't expand much in that post.)

Now, down even farther are connector layout posts. These were screen captured @ 500 wide, using PrintKey (`Very useful and well-done freeware!) They don't expand since they are posted at their native res. But note how clean they are!

Here's the Part 1

Code:

[url=http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/19015/Prem_To_Lux_Amp_Conn_Rewire.gif][img width=500 height=646

Part 2

Code:

]http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/19015/normal_Prem_To_Lux_Amp_Conn_Rewire.gif[/img][/url]

These stiched together, I had to separate them so the screen width here wouldn't corrupt!

Edit: Had to adjust that - still!

[duramaxHD]

Perfect! Thanks for the tip Steve! I think I understand what I need to do... I tried loading that big picture into my album but it gave me an error saying the picture was too big (in resolution, not file size).  Its 1 meg in file size but 1080x2116 in res. Im not sure what the max uploadable res is... If need be I can just chop it in half with photoshop. I only run my screen at 1152x864 so I still have to zoom in with Firefox on some pics...

------Ben

[sperry]

2000 pixels, either way and 2MB.

[lungin]

Well, I pulled the radio this morning to try and figure out why I wasn't getting any audio out of the right channel only while the cd is playing.  Playing around with the wires revealed that it was definitely the C2 radio connector where the cdx audio plugs in.  All the connections seemed good, but I pulled the three from the aux connector out and re-set them.....I'm good to go!


Thanks again for everyone's help on here!


Brad

[sperry]

`Kinda thought that would be it .. or a bogus tap connection in the area.

Another solved....

[smokinfish]

OHH YEA!!

Where's the poll at??

As of Noon today I am officially rolling in my 2004 z71 AV with onstar and XM in full LUX mode!! Had my service guy read the Tech 2 instructions and BAM, LUX CITY!!

Please take note that in January I installed a non lux TNR and by April I installed a LUX TNR with a 6 disc changer. Then installed my non lux in a 2003 AV.
Bet I'm the first to do all that!

What I installed: Lux amp, the indash 6 disc changer and the usa spec SVG 707.
And all I can say is "CLEARER!"
The best way to describe it is "Loud music you can talk through"
I had missed that from my aftermarket system days. The Lux system pulls that off.
Bass is about as same as the premium amp, so is volume. It's just cleaner, not so muddy, even at low volumes.

Things I learned on the install:

1. The center console can be removed with out removing the seats.

2. A Y91 harness for $30 on ebay is a really good buy and will help alot!!
    If not just for the CDX and mic wires then the pin extraction practice.

3. Indash 6 disc is the way to go. Especially with a disc dependent nav system.

4. Doing the lux amp first, testing it and then the cdx and testing it,
   and then the SVG 707 and testing, saves alot of trouble shooting time!

5. The SVG 707 is a piece of cake to install and gives you aux inputs with a rse
    screen. Can you say ipod or aftermarket dvd?!
    This thing is great if you don't already have one!!

6. The TNR will only respond to the theftlock bypass in the first "ON" key position.
    Pulling the fuse or pulling the 24 pin connector I could not get it to work in any
    other position. If anyone else has gotten a TNR to respond in any other
    position, please let me know the details.

7. The rsa does not come on in the first "ON" key position.
    I wasted alot of time freaking out about this. And it was all good!!

8. You need a WHOLE DAY to do the install.

9. Research and print outs are the key.

10. A printout of the layout for the mic holes makes for pretty drilling.

And last but not least this forum is the BEST!!
I would like to thank SPERRY, DURAMAXHD, & PBUILDER for all their help, knowledge, but most of all the super quick replys! It was truly an educational experience!

I do have some straggling questions.

1. Upon examination the pillar tweeters have four wires going into the connector but only 2 wires going into the speaker. Since I want to keep the connector disconnect, what two wires would I tap into for the lux amp's front tweeter output?

2. Are those really tweeters?

3. Where is the crossover on the tweeter?
   
4. Is it a tweeter crossover?

Next mod Headrest monitors with a dvd/mp3 player in the center console!!
Anyone know if the Directed DVD player ( seems to be the smallest with the features I want) can be controlled by the IR on the Vizualogic monitors?

THANKS AGAIN!!

[smokinfish]

Ok I was playing around with my new lux set up, checking it all out and I did find one problem.

The rsa when turned on is not muting the back speakers.
Why is this and how can I fix it? Does anyone else have this problem?

Thanks!

[duramaxHD]

With the LUX amp, the RSA tells the amp to mute the output to the back speakers over Class II data...the only thing I can think of is that when you spliced into the Class II wire with your nav install, the Class II data wire got disconnected from the RSA. But then again, I dont think the RSA would even turn on if it didnt have Class II data sooo...hmmm....

---Ben

[sperry]

Mine did that once, then worked. but I rarely use it.

That RSA is a premium unit, as you know and I kept going back & forth on it's muting function, thinking it's a different one than the lux. Apparently it is because of apparent software differences. When mine decided to mute after it initially didn't, I went on to other things..

-OR-

 If you tapped the amp's class II at the RSA's A1, maybe later on, run that tap to sp207. That's an experimental suggestion, but I have some suspicions about it.

------

#4: Yup! Wise move.

#1: I believe the seat removal is if you're planning a harness change and amp frame removal. Seats only need to be moved back & forth to access console screws. Plan your battery disconnect accordingly.

Second #3: It's just a capacitor at the tweeter speaker. The usual Bozo ...
For more highs, install some pocket tweeters. (They fit in the front section of the front door pockets).

Oh, and √ Good write-up!

[younghog]

OHH YEA!!

Where's the poll at??

As of Noon today I am officially rolling in my 2004 z71 AV with onstar and XM in full LUX mode!! Had my service guy read the Tech 2 instructions and BAM, LUX CITY!!

Things I learned on the install:

1. The center console can be removed with out removing the seats.

2. A Y91 harness for $30 on ebay is a really good buy and will help alot!!
    If not just for the CDX and mic wires then the pin extraction practice.

4. Doing the lux amp first, testing it and then the cdx and testing it,
   and then the SVG 707 and testing, saves alot of trouble shooting time!


7. The rsa does not come on in the first "ON" key position.
    I wasted alot of time freaking out about this. And it was all good!!

8. You need a WHOLE DAY to do the install.

9. Research and print outs are the key.

And last but not least this forum is the BEST!!
I would like to thank SPERRY, DURAMAXHD, & PBUILDER for all their help, knowledge, but most of all the super quick replys! It was truly an educational experience!

I do have some straggling questions.

1. Upon examination the pillar tweeters have four wires going into the connector but only 2 wires going into the speaker. Since I want to keep the connector disconnect, what two wires would I tap into for the lux amp's front tweeter output?

2. Are those really tweeters?

THANKS AGAIN!!

Congrads on the Full LUX..

--Center Console--
I didn't remove my seats.. Just unscrewed my middle
console, RSA CONTROLS and bent that bar and went on
from there. I did wish for a minute the drivers wasn't as far back after battery disconnect but just layed over the back seat..

I actually had more room with the seats back than I think I would if they were forward.

--Y91 HARNESS..

A true GOD SEND.. however mine didn't have the mic.
But we easily tested on all of the pinouts before going
to the real thing.. probably did the amp re-wire in 4 minutes,

only got slowed on the cdx re-wire.. 

ON all of the re-wire one of us would call back the colors
and cross check the pinouts and tug the wires before moving on.
Just saves time and hassle.

--RSA does not come on in ACC or first 'ON' position.
I'd check your steps on the re-wire as mine came on like a champ.

We were able to put in spiderman thats when I saw the pop up of
the front and rear mute speaker option.. Which is a hell of a future
I must add.

I'll take a pic of that soon..

--Research and printouts are key

I SECOND THAT MOTION.. When I bought the cadillac escalade lux
harness and printed my notes and placed in a 3 hole binder all the lights
started coming on..

--
And last but not least this forum is the BEST!!
--

I GOT CIGARS FOR WHOEVER SMOKES THEM.. AS THIS FORUM IS THE BEST.

Pillar Tweeters

I'm guessing your referring to the front speakers up the
sides by the front glass?

In my non-lux standard harness these were not wired to the amp and
I assumed that they were ran in parrallel as they do get sound from
them.. I would like to splice or trace them and run them to their proper
location.. But hey its working so no need to

Again Congrads

I'll be posting all my notes and pics tomorrow..

YOUNGHOG

[sperry]

They tap off of the front door speakers. The capacitor at the tweeters gives it the "high-pass".

[holstbnet]

Ya know.. I'm surprised at how "rare" the INR/TNRs really are! I was at a Cadillac dealer today, and a GMC dealer and I saw only ONE Escalade with a TNR, and nothing at the GMC dealer. Every car had a UC6 or a regular RDS cd. How strange is that? It's 2005 and navigation is still this HUGE luxury for GM cars. LOL! And what's funny is I'm ready to dump my old school '04 INR and move on to a TNR already.   

[sperry]

`Tis weird..

 I may do that next year. Paying off the truck is a priority right now. Hopefully all mine by august.

[holstbnet]

One quick note - then SPX/Kent-Moore J-38125-64SPL extractor kit with pins for the "digital radio receiver" (XM radio module plug) has been discontinued and there are no replacement P/Ns. I just called Kent-Moore today to order the #7740 pin extractor after I found out my company has an account with them. :-) #7740 is $12.68! Must be a fancy lil paperclip.

[holstbnet]

Sperry I tried to PM you but you're blocking..  Does your SI go to 2005? If so would you be so kind as to look up an 05 Chevy Blazer steering wheel audio controls and see if they go directly to the HU or if they go to the BCM?

I'd really appreciate it. -- I'm running into a dilemma trying to add factory steering wheel controls to the INR HU.

[sperry]

A7 of the radio..

Here's the print of the audio controls..

2005 S/T Truck..
The image expands; how, depends on your browser.

[holstbnet]

Thanks for the info! I'm guess I'm SOL trying to run steering wheel controls and an INR without a BCM swap. 

The good news is that I finally bought a Nav DVD (3.0) off eBay, brand new for $189.00. Not too shabby.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7969745256&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

Now I have to tear into my dash and run that VSS wire.

[sperry]

Nothing saying it won't work.. Yet.

Connect the wire to radio connector 1, A7 and see! It may say "unused" but that's in a GMT800 family. This HU goes into several other's too, so it may just read them OK..

Just make sure of your connections!

The BCM just encodes the reading into DATA in the Av. There may be a circuit in the radio that reads it directly. Just not documented for the GMT800 trucks.

So, I feel it's worth a try...

[sperry]

Here's the GMT800's. You can see that the layout electrically is similar. Unfortunately, resistor values are not given, but if you need that, just measure the incremenal changes for each button.

To tap the power and connect the select input in the S/T vehicles, use the same connection you see in the upper and lower left of the previous schematic. Instead of the BCM connections you see below.

Good luck!

[holstbnet]

So I got that SPX/Kent-Moore terminal pick for GM micro connectors...



THIS is worth $12.88??

[holstbnet]

Oooh! I forgot to mention, I also finally bought a Navigation DVD, 3.0 off eBay. Those things are dual layer, 5.8 gigs of data, give or take. I was surprised the businesses this thing has in it, I typed in the main phone number for my work and it actually found it!

[sperry]

The data is somewhat surprising. Some you expect isn't there and some you wouldn't, is...

I'll post that pic in the tech section if you wish..

My little screwdriver works fine... Hmmm, I could buy a lot of those little tools with that $12.88!

[duramaxHD]

hmmm... so the earlier versions of the map DVD (like 1.0 and 2.0) are smaller? Are they single layer discs? Cause I have heard of guys saying "oh yeah i copied the Delco TNR/INR nav disc just fine..." and I was confused because I have exhausted all efforts and wasted about 40 dollars worth of dual-layer DVD's trying to burn a copy that works!!! The closest I got was when my TNR recognized it as a nav DVD and it said "dvd check in process" and then it just said "nav dvd scratched or dirty. remove and inspect". Oh well.
Steve-- wow!! 7000 posts!!!!! I got your PM and when I have a free moment I will load some TNR install pics onto my album and then put the links up...

----Ben

[holstbnet]

Ben, I have no clue what the 1.0 and 2.0 DVDs are, but they are most likely dual-layer also. All of those DVDs were released in the span of about 2 years, so it's not like a 1.0 DVD is old technology.. they are just updated because of road changes and software updates for the radio, etc.

I'm going to try and burn a copy this weekend, I'll let you know how that goes. I don't plan on setting up a bootlegger shop, I just don't feel comfortable letting an easily scratchable $200 DVD rattle around in my truck (especially since I don't have a changer so I have to remove the DVD to play CDs.) It would be nice to have a burned copy to use and keep the original safe.

[holstbnet]

Well, S-10 steering wheel controls don't work...properly...with the INR HU. I hooked up my new steering wheel (not mounted, just loose) through a clockspring and wired the ground and power in properly, and the ran the signal wire to A7 of the C1 connector. Now, my wheel looks like this:

And what happens is... the PROG button works as it should, switches from preset to preset. Only half of the seek button works, to seek up. Seek down mutes the radio. The mute button and volume up/down on the right don't do ANYTHING.

Sooo.. A7 does accept input from steering wheel controls independant of class 2, but the S/T platform buttons must have the wrong resistance values. I would have to switch to a GMT800 steering wheel/airbag if that is even possible. Chances are I'm going to say "screw it" to this project and worry about other stuff. (like selling a kidney to buy a TNR and the XM kit) 

[sperry]

I've never been in there.. Just the prints. Resistors are cheap, perhaps if you could measure what you have, and measure an 03+ GMT800, you could adjust the values and/or assignments. If they're chip type (SMC), they can be had easy too, but a bit harder to deal with.

[holstbnet]

Navigation is finally 100% up and running. VSS wire has been run, GPS antenna mounted securely in the dash. Also - back when it was actually hot out in Chicago a couple weeks ago (80 degrees or so) and I was doing a lot of driving, a message came up on my screen saying "The radio has exceeded it's normal temperature limits. Some functionality will be disabled until the temperature is back within limits" or something to that effect. Then later on it popped up and said that the temperature has normalized. I also noticed the fan was running too much for day to day driving.

Well, I found the problem.. there was a huge label slapped on the side of the unit over the cooling holes on the right side, and the fan on the left side was blowing right into a fiberglass dash support piece. So I removed the label (it was just a avery tag with a number hand-written on it, not the Delphi label) and I notched out a fan shaped section in the dash support so the fan can flow properly. Works much nicer now, and I haven't even heard the fan!!

So anyways.. I LOVE the navigation - this is the first time I've heard the voice prompts and all of that. Works extremely well.

[sperry]

Interesting to know of the message.. As much as one plays with these things, we experience or hear of something new it seems, everyday..

As far as S/W controls, I bet they can be made to work.. But with the time to tinker with it just to find out..

[holstbnet]

And something funny about that overheat warning message? It had a TYPO! The first screen said "TEMPERATUE" - When the "temp returned to normal" screen appeared, it was spelled correctly that time.

The more I think about it -- I definitely want to get the steering wheel controls working. Either mine are defective (wheel was from a junkyard car that was outside, and wheel DID get wet.) or I have incorrect resistance. Only problem is that SI doesn't seem to go into detail about how the controls work, and if it is still by resistance, what the values are.

It's nice to have the steering wheel controls because Delphi can't seem to manufacture buttons that don't wear down after a year or two. Maybe ALL of their radios should be touch screen. 

[sperry]

That's funny, maybe send an e-mail to Delphi..

With "leakage" paths that develop from moisture and electrolysis, that may have been your faulty operation.

Access the board/switches and clean them up with vinegar, (then alcohol if there's some other contaminant needing it). Blow it dry, and so-on. Then retry it.

[duramaxHD]

Sorry guys this is sort of a stupid question...but everytime I look at my TNR this bugs me... WHAT IS THIS SYMBOL!?!? How does that little thing, in any way, represent "tuning knob"

---Ben

[holstbnet]

Picture an old radio dial, on an analog tuner...

[duramaxHD]

ahhhhhh!!!!! i see it now!! haha thats kinda neat. Thanks for filling me in!

---Ben

I wonder how universal symbols like that were "devised" in the first place...like the "eject" symbol, the "play" symbol, etc...

[sperry]

That almost looks like a tuning dial symbol!

Kinda dumb.. At least make the dial on the icon move while you tune it


That was an FM adapter for the AM only radios.
There were even kits for those. FM in, AM out the jack.. 

[holstbnet]

OK now I really don't like the INR's preset/RDS feature. It just grabs whatever random word is in RDS at some given time (whenever it feels like it) and keeps it there for a day or two. So what started out as Frequencies like 101.9, 94.7 etc changed to call signs initially. WTMX, WONC, WRCX, whatever. Now they just become a random band name or song title. I get in my truck this morning and my presets read:

WJMK
101.9
MOTHER
LUST
UNCLE
OZZY

LOL! And I had my digital camera in the truck but like an idiot I left the memory card in my computer... so no pic. Hopefully it doesn't change so I can snap a pic after work today.

[sperry]

RDS never worked that well anyway. And when it does, they don't keep the data updated or formatted properly. Imo, broadcast sux..

[duramaxHD]

RDS never worked that well anyway.

It seemed like a good idea...but i agree...it just never seems to work correctly. HOWEVER I have found that for some odd reason the RDS seems to work better with my TNR than I remember it working with my old UC6. Maybe my late model '0099 TNR has some RDS software updates? Or a stronger FM tuner? Also...one thing that NEVER worked on my UC6 was the stupid "traffic alert" or "p-type" functions. Maybe thats why Delco never bothered to put those features on the TNR

---Ben

[duramaxHD]

Well I spread the TNR/Lux amp mod to "The diesel place", a Chevy/GMC Duramax forum. Got quite a bit of interest! I made a long (one page) post of the rough outlines of the install and what we all went through. Lots of questions are being returned to me! Some couldnt even beleive I took "the whole dash off". Hee hee...rookies Im really excited for more and more people to do this mod because I love seeing dealers scratch their heads "wait hmm...nav wasnt avalible in the Av in 2003..how did---" "huh?? how did you get that Escalade nav to work in your Silverado? Thats not supposed to work!" "But the nav has never been an option in the S-10....has it?" hee hee great work everyone!

---Ben

[holstbnet]

RDS is a waste of time. I can't WAIT to get XM installed in my truck!!!

LOL duramax I know what you mean about surprising people with "options" in your vehicle. You should've seen the look on the service writer's face at the Chevy dealership when I had my S-10 in for service. He's looking at the navigation HU, the compass/autodim/OnStar mirror and then looking at me - "Wow this is a loaded truck, I didn't think you could get all of this..."

Now I just need to get my OnStar/XM roof antennae mounted, AMP installed, the steering wheel controls, center console, leather buckets... It'll be one confused little pickup truck!

I like when people give a damn enough to look into things like this. Some people hear what all is involved in adding a "factory option" to their vehicle and say "ehh forget it! I'll go to Best Buy and have them bolt something in" It's refreshing to hear people say "Who says it can't be done?? I'll get it done!"

(Off topic.. but on the same note: I just got done swapping out the entire front lamp harness so I can have factory foglights... All wiring and switch etc is now done <its basically plug and play> Now the FUN part. Going from dealer to dealer to find someone competant enough to reflash my BCM so my foglights are enabled. This oughta be fun)

[sperry]

It was always fun to come to the dealer and a new service writer would be there. The svc writer that knows what I did would bring them over for proof or something against what they were told or ? No more surprise with it being more of the norm. Until they realize it wasn't available and "couldn't be done".

[sperry]

It's kind of weird replying on this dinky pocket PC, but it works...

Anyway, I enjoy these more unique mod's too. It isn't the common aftermarket retrofits!

[avarchitect]

I don't know how many people look on this forum page anymore but I just wanted to make everyone aware - I have one sealed 3.0 Nav Disc up for sale - asking $170 which includes the shipping to you via Priority Mail - here is the link to all of my items up for sale...

2003 and 2005 Avalanche Parts For Sale

[sperry]

Thanx for the offer. Usage here is sporadic. Sometimes it heats up a bit when a new user finds it.

Good luck..

Upgrading mine just isn't worth the cost, even @ $170, so, I'll maybe do it if and when  I replace my INR with a TNR.

[ltklein]

Hi!  I've finally collected all the pieces/parts to do a lux amp/touchscreen conversion, which I'm hoping to begin over Memorial Day weekend.  I've carefully read all of the posts and have the
correct parts, harnesses, pins, connectors and such (famous last words).

Reading through an adjacent topic, I saw that some were having problems with the rear speakers not muting when the RSA was being used.  I don't have RSE.

What isn't clear is if this was a universal problem, or a unique issue to just a couple of installations.   Can anyone confirm that they have done the lux upgrade and that their rear-audio does mute when the RSA is in use?   

I love the potential of better sound, but when doing a "factory-style" install, I like to wind up with factory results.

If there's a fair chance of it working right, I'll go for it and see what happens...

Thanks!
Roger

P.S. For the interested, I have an Orange '05 1500 Avalanche, LS, Bose Premium system, roof rack, WBH and side mouldings

[duramaxHD]

Mine works fine!!   As long as the amp is recieving Class II data, i dont see why it would not mute the rear speakers...

---Ben

[sperry]

Hi! I've finally collected all the pieces/parts to do a lux amp/touchscreen conversion, which I'm hoping to begin over Memorial Day weekend. I've carefully read all of the posts and have the
correct parts, harnesses, pins, connectors and such (famous last words).

Reading through an adjacent topic, I saw that some were having problems with the rear speakers not muting when the RSA was being used. I don't have RSE.

What isn't clear is if this was a universal problem, or a unique issue to just a couple of installations. Can anyone confirm that they have done the lux upgrade and that their rear-audio does mute when the RSA is in use?

I love the potential of better sound, but when doing a "factory-style" install, I like to wind up with factory results.

If there's a fair chance of it working right, I'll go for it and see what happens...

Thanks!
Roger

P.S. For the interested, I have an Orange '05 1500 Avalanche, LS, Bose Premium system, roof rack, WBH and side mouldings

RSE is not relevant. Your equipment listed has RSA.

Apparently the RSA IS the same part # in an Av, as an EXT. But the Lux and Prem systems are apparently different RSA programming, as they are wired differently.

While trying to narrow the the operational faults, it appears to me that the unit's that are having the difficulty may be the ones that did not reprogram their amp. (Such as a working pre-programmed amp, why reprogram it..?).

My amp was Tech 2 programmed, but I still hadn't rechecked the RSA operation since my initial system checks sixteen months ago as it worked ok. Anotherwords, likely, the RSA programs with the amp. Or if it has been installed as new, into the system as of that install.

Careful not to mix RSE & RSA! I catch myself and others still doing that....
Two different devices.

RSA should mute the speakers ok however you cannot separately tune and/or select sources for the rear & front speakers as the premium system can, to the rear speakers. You can only do that into the headphones / jacks.

[ltklein]

Brilliant Collegues!

I have my INR and Lux AMP in and tested perfectly. Ran out of daylight and time (it's hot here in AZ!) to finish up tonight.

I do have a couple of quick questions, if someone could lend me an ear...

The document for the CDX changer harness shows 3 wires going into the small HU connector and 3 into the larger one.

The text suggests that I should be able to simply plug the 3 pins into the 12-pin connector and solder 3 into the 24-pin connector.

My vehicle (and '05 Av) has 3 pins already located in the 12-pin connector (brown-white, green-white and black-white as indicated in the document showing the pinout for HU C2.  Should I solder on to these pins as well or do they get removed?

On the HU C1 connector I have 2 out of the 3 with pins already in them as well, instead of the 3 indicated in the CDX doc.

I'm assuming this is just a variation between vehicles/years?  Anyone have an idea what remote device the C2 connector is already supporting?

Last question:  I capped off the pins on the connectors to the
AMP that support the RSA.  I don't currently have any RSA functions (doesn't come on) except for the lights illuminating the knobs.

The only thing I did to the wiring directly on the RSA was to tap the A1 lead for the data bus on the amp.  Was there more I needed to do there?

Thanks for any advice!  And thanks for all the previous banter that makes projects like this possible!

I'll add some notes when I'm done on things I discovered that may be of use..

Roger

[sperry]

Nothing more needed on the RSA. The RSA shares the HU fuse and should function if data and power are present.

You can tap the HU connector 2 wires, as that is what they do electrically. SP250 is a pain to access but if you are removing your dash top for mounting a nav antenna, you can access that shorting connector, which is the way the factory wiring would be if they offered the MDX as an RPO. Only three devices would connect to those three wires (left, right & ground) those would be RSE, MDX and XM (or DAB in Canada). If one had any or all three, they would all meet at SP250. From there, to HU connector 2, which are the wires you see.

SP250 is on the left side of the glove box framework area.

There is a diagram of SP250 available in this or one of the previous topics, if not in the tech section. If you decide you want to connect it as they would have at the factory, and can't find the diagram, let me know and I'll locate it, or re-post it, for you.

Too bad you don't have a well lit spot for doing this all at night instead.

[ltklein]

Sperry!  I'm so pleased to see that there's someone in the world up at 2:17 am to answer my questions! 

I downloaded the drawing of the location of SP250, and now I need to put in an APB cuz mine's gone missing.

After examining the drawing carefully, and looking thru my vehicle in the same manner (I still have the top cover off of my dash), I was able to determine that the location depicted is actually on a bracket immediately
to the left of the HU (facing the dashboard).  In the picture there is a vertical bracket with a square hole in it on the left of the picture.  That is the support centered directly behind the HU.

The raised "pad" area that SP250 is supposed to be in is a vertical bracket on the extreme right side of the instrument cluster. 

This is fairly easy to access, except...

The hole where SP250 is supposed to mount is empty on my '05, so I think they made a change in physical location.

I haven't read what your document source is, but I was wondering if you would have access to see if a later drawing existed show a new location of the splice.

I'll be taking a picture and posting the location as depicted in the drawing for the other folks who actually have theirs located in that spot.  With the top cover off, this is a dream location stick in the CDX wiring without having to tap (at least for the C2 related connections)...

I'll be cruising around with my mirror looking for where mine is.  If I don't find it, I'll be doing the happy-taps also (ick!)...

I'm gonna meter my power leads to the RSA in a few minutes.  More later...

Thanks again!

[ltklein]

Here's the P/N's for the TNR/Lux install that I'm doing for anyone who wants to follow...

TNR:       10377531
AMP:      15114454
CD Chgr:15122617
GPS Ant: 15135178
DVD:       10390370
Pins:       12089649   Haven't used any yet

I got a console harness from an 03 Escalade with my amp that included the microphone.  I extracted the two wires for the microphone from the harness, extracted the pins and installed the wires into my harness, keeping me from having to cut the connector off of the microphone and fashioning my own.

My amp number shows up on most posts as being a Denali amp, however the individual I bought mine from said it was an 04 Escalade amp.  Dunno who's right at this point, or if it's signficant.

[sperry]

That doesn't sound right.. It appears more to the left/rear of the glove box...

When you see the pointer stating "Instrument panel" that means "Dash". If it said "instrument cluster", then it would be to the left of the HU, of course...

Look again to confirm. I doubt they moved it from the same loc.



(1)   Instrument Panel
(2)   C202
(3)   SP250

Edit: Adj width to 600 & added legend text.

[sperry]

Here's the P/N's for the TNR/Lux install that I'm doing for anyone who wants to follow...

TNR: 10377531
AMP: 15114454
CD Chgr:15122617
GPS Ant: 15135178
DVD: 10390370
Pins: 12089649 Haven't used any yet

I got a console harness from an 03 Escalade with my amp that included the microphone. I extracted the two wires for the microphone from the harness, extracted the pins and installed the wires into my harness, keeping me from having to cut the connector off of the microphone and fashioning my own.

My amp number shows up on most posts as being a Denali amp, however the individual I bought mine from said it was an 04 Escalade amp. Dunno who's right at this point, or if it's signficant.

Those P/N's are useful to confirm and update lists with..

The Denali and Escalade Amps are swappable anyway; no doubt they are used for both normally. Most just reference where they found the # or what vehicle the amp came out of.

BTW, I wasn't that much of a night owl.. I'm in CA.. It was the 11:00 hour here.

[ltklein]

Completed my LUX/TNR install last night and it was a resounding success!  Put the system into bypass and tested NAV, Radio, CD Changer and RSA.  All works great with the exception of the RSA not muting the back speakers when it's in use...a problem that has been mentioned by some and not experienced by others.

Going to have the theftlock cleared and probably have the amp reprogrammed to see if this little annoyance goes away.

The workaround is to manually shift to the front speakers on the HU if someone wants to RSA in the back.

The RSA didn't work on my first test, but then I added the CD Changer, forgot to hook up the RSA and then I bypassed the system.  Hooked up the RSA with the system "hot" and it powered on and came up.  Something you might try if you ever have a problem with this.

The changer seemed to get confused for a bit when toggling XM, but sorted itself out in about a minute and then came up.  I'm guessing it was negotiating for an address on the buss or something like that.

Never found SP250, so I wound up soldering the changer wires to the back of the  pins in the HU.  My luck..needed to solder all 6...sigh...

For the record, my 2005 Avalanche DOES have the VSS wire on pin E as many have guessed.  I wired
a rocker switch inline with that and will pass on how that works out when I get unlocked.

Few things left to do:  Theftlock, finish the cutout for the CD changer, cutout for the VSS rocker switch.

Oh...and...pull the top of the dash one last time to reinstall the sun sensor.  Sheesh!

More to follow...

[sperry]

If you reprogram the amp, match it to what it came out of, if it doesn't reprogram as an Escalade EXT.

Yes, I had heard it as late 04's and on have the VSS at HU connector 2.

[duramaxHD]

For the record, my 2005 Avalanche DOES have the VSS wire on pin E as many have guessed.

I think every 2005 GMT-800 has the VSS wire in place. My Silverado 2500HD already had it in place...maybe they will have the TNR's in the pick-up trucks sometime in 2006? Just a guess tho...probly wont happen.

---Ben

[ltklein]

IT'S WORKING!!!!!!!   

Took the day off and got the Theftlock cleared.  All systems are go.  The rocker switch in the VSS wire works perfectly.  Now my passenger can reprogram the Nav while underway.

I had them recalibrate the amp as an EXT, however the RSA still doesn't mute the back speakers when used. Ah well...  Perhaps it will fix itself...

I do need to thank Sperry for quick answers...it's not often I've been work on a project, put a post in a forum and get an answer before I had to figure it out myself.

Also, used Younghog's PDF for 95% of the install, along with the thread that Sperry put together with the document collection. 

But overall, I have to thank anyone and everyone that's posted on this thread...I read through all of the posts, learned tons before I ever picked up a screwdriver and a beer...  Great group of people on here..

I still owe the group a "hints and tricks" of my install...  Look for it soon..

I'm now on to  the the backup camera project!!!

[sperry]

Yeah, I need to dig through the quirks more with the RSA. It's a bit out of sight-out of mind...

The kids don't even use it much, because of the movies, I guess. Those, I use FM earphones (soon Bluetooth) for, not the system.

Anyway, Congrats.. Now there's another that can testify about the Lux system audio!

[duramaxHD]

Ok im a little frustrated. At first I thought my lack of LUX bass (versus my dad's converted Lux '03 Tahoe) was just an illusion because in my truck, the tiny little sub has to work over the drone of the Diesel engine. Well tonight I parked my truck right next to my dad's Tahoe and transferred CD's between the two vehicles to test sound. Well...his clearly has tenfold more bass than mine does. As I said in another thread, I tried swapping amps (H2 amp versus an Escalade amp) and the switching to an H2 amp helped a little, but his still clearly has more bass. Then I figured maybe I wired something wrong. Checked connections and everything was fine. Then I tried un hooking one voice coil at a time while music was playing and oddly, it didnt make one bit of difference. Unplug the first one, bass is still exactly the same, at all volumes. Plug it back in, no change. Unplug the other one, no change! Is it possible for one voice coil in a DVC sub to go dead? Why would running the sub on only one voice coil (versus the normal 2) not have ANY effect on sound? My next test is to rip apart my dad's Tahoe and try running his sub on one voice coil...see if it makes any difference. Its starting to really annoy me. I am perfectly satisfied with my lux upper end and clarity, but theres no lux bass to go with it!! (i know Bose doesnt have much bass to begin with, but the Lux system in my dads Tahoe is clearly more capable in the bass department). I would think in my smaller cabin (crew cab Silverado vs. Tahoe), the bass would be even more than his, but my subwoofer seems to be half dead...and I didnt burn it up...im careful with my speakers

Any thoughts?? I have my Escalade console sitting in our shop waiting to be installed when I get a free weekend...im hoping the subwoofer in that will be more capable.

---Ben

[sperry]

You reversed the polarity on the other speakers, but did you do that on one/either voice coil of the woofer?

You can easily tell if a coil is open with an Ohmmeter. If you connect one at a time, you can tell if there's output on each.

Weird that there's low bass as compared with the other vehicle. I doubt the console is much different..

[duramaxHD]

ill go out with my ohmmeter and check the coils in a minute...ill also reverse the polarity of one of the coils. That did occur to me, so i double and triple checked my connections on the amp C2 connector. I never did actually try to swap them tho... I mean its not AWEFUL bass, its just...well...dare I say "Premium" level bass.
If one coil was in fact dead or there was something wrong with it, would bass output actually be less?? If I cant figure it out and changing subs doesnt help, I think ill just use a C2A-GM24 and put in an aftermarket 8" or something...its driving me crazy...because the LUX bass level is just almost perfect for me...ANY bit less just sounds too lacking...

---Ben

[sperry]

One open, a little. One out of phase (swapped polarity), `depends on how they're mixed, as bad as nulling it out near inaudible, to certain parts low and other parts, just down a little.

It's possible that Bose's woofer coils are from each channel separately, via an internal crossover for each channel. Instead of a mono channel bridged somewhere.

Hopefully, you will find something useful with the experiment..

[duramaxHD]

Well I tried everything...didnt seem to make any difference. I still have my "Premium" bass.

BUT!! I tried something else and I bet im the first person to do this... DUAL BOSE SUBS!!! haha. I took the sub out of my Escalade console that I bought and hooked one voice coil up to the left sub output on my lux amp in my truck and left the right sub output hooked up to the sub that was in my standard console. I put the second Escalade sub in the passenger footwell (kinda right next to the other sub) temporarrily to get an idea of how it sounds. WOW!!! Its not too bad!! Its funny I can see a conversation with some of my friends... "what are you runnin??" "ehh two 12s" "two 10s" "four 8s" "ben what are you runnin?" "two 6.5s "
oh boy... well long story short it does sound good and I think thats what ill end up doing. Keep one Bose sub in the center console and make a custom box for the other one to go behind the back seat or something... I want to wire everything in parallel so all of the voice coils in both of the subs are working, but then again, the impedance would double and I would probably get less bass output, no?? So ill leave it as it is. One voice coil of each sub wired to each of the two sub outputs on the amp.

---Ben

[duramaxHD]

Anyone wanna take a guess at where this appearently ancient GM navigation unit is from?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73332&item=5781824242&rd=1

It looks physically to me like an INR but the user-interface is REALLLYYY old looking (first thing i thought of was windows 3.1 vs. XP) and it uses - get this - CD's for nav info!!! I sent some questions to the guy asking what it came out of and could he send some pictures of the back connectors. What was the first GM vehicle to use a double-DIN opening??? Maybe this is from that... Maybe its so old that it works on the E&C data bus!! What a rare gem that would be!!

---Ben

[sperry]

Cadillac or Olds. Cadillac had CD-Based units for a few years before the DVD ones.

[sperry]

The more - the merrier, with the sub's. Beware of the loading though. If you're going for an enclosure, go for an additional (2 Ch)  amp so you don't load down the Class II one.

Ben, did Amos33(?) find you? He was having fits with his lux amp in his Silverado. `Thought maybe you could help him..

[duramaxHD]

Did any vehicles use Class II data for radio/climate communication before the 2003 GMT-800's?? I know there was SOME Class II around before then, but E&C was what controlled all of the radios, climate, etc.. Im dieing to know if that wierd olddd "INR" style nav radio uses E&C!!

Yup, i thought about that with the two subs. I wasnt really looking to keep the set up because the shape of the stock Bose enclosure isnt really suitable to fit anywhere! I mainly just did it for grins to see what would happen. (i just made sure I didnt wire all the subs in series...otherwise i'd be the first person to see a lux amp go up in smoke )

No, Amos33 hasnt found me...lux amp troubles in his Silverado?? Send him my way! Id be happy to help.

---Ben

[sperry]

I hadn't heard from him in a few days. He had an amp in that didn't sound right. He had it reprogrammed and it died. (Sound familiar?) I believe he ordered another amp.

[lungin]

Strange problem.....Everything is in and working great on the LUX NAV upgrade.  I proceed to install a soundgate adapter to run Sirius through my head  unit and I run into two problems immediately.  The first, which I also posted on the Satellite board, is that I'm now getting an alternator whine when the cdx is playing.  Sirius works fine, though.  The second problem is, all of a sudden, I'm able to enter destinations into the NAV while moving?  This wasn't the case before.  This is an '05 Tahoe and I didn't have to extend the VSS wire as it was already present in the harness.  Maybe it came loose?  I don't know!

Any thoughts? 

Brad

[holstbnet]

I thought I'd throw in my two cents here -- I've been away from the forum for a little while (got married May 29th, house remodeling projects, all sorts of fun)

But ANYWAYS:

1) Yeah, Class 2 has been around for a little while. I'm not sure exactly how long, but even in vehicles that do NOT have a Body Control Module, such as my two 1996 Chevy Beretta's (first year OBDII vehicles), Class 2 is used for ECM communications. I have a purple Class 2 wire in my DLC connector. Instead of a BCM, I have whats called a MICAM (multifunction indicator, chime and alarm module??) which is hard wired to interior lamps, door locks, 12v constant, turn signals etc.

2) Cadillacs have had navigation back in the 90's that was CD-ROM based, with a changer in the trunk I believe. Also, the first ever Delphi INR radio I saw (which looks basically EXACTLY like our INRs except the bezel and the mounts are slightly diff) was in 2002 in a Pontiac Vibe at some car show I went to. It was a high dollar option, the DVD based Delphi nav unit in the Vibe and Matrix.

I also know that the Oldsmobile Aurora was offered with navigation which had a headunit that looked a LOT like the INR but was CD-ROM based.

3) I bought the COOLEST thing off eBay a few months back. Its a Delco Telepath 100 navigation radio.

This was GM's first attempt at navigation and it was offered as an option in some Oldsmobiles and Buicks, I believe. Its a standard 1.5 DIN Delco Theftlock headunit with a two line VFD screen. It has a PCMCIA socket right on the face for data cards. It has a normal AM/FM cassette radio, can control an external changer as well. Basically, you bring up POIs in your area, push navigate and it tells you how far away it is, and shows an arrow to point you in the direction you need to go. It also has a built-in compass and some other cool stuff. Compared to our INR/TNRs, this thing is utterly laughable -- and I could only imagine how long it would take to get to a destination by driving around, watching pointer arrows until you get "warmer and warmer" - LOL!

But that Telepath radio was an expensive option from '95 and I picked it up for $40 bucks shipped, BRAND NEW in the box. I love Delco/Delphi stock stuff and unique models get my attention for sure.

[sperry]

Interesting find! Rare goodie indeed.

[lungin]

Sperry,

I don't remember where I saw it, but I thought I read a post from you indicated that if you had an aux. adapter hooked up with the NAV, the VSS wire would  need to be moved to a different location in the radio harness.  Did I read this or am I imagining.  If I did, can you tell me where?  I noticed after I hooked up an aux. adapter for Sirius that I can now plug in destination addresses while moving.  I had checked this prior to installation of the adapter and it functioned as it should by not letting me input dest. addresses. 

Any help would be appreciated. 


Brad

[duramaxHD]

Brad...the adapter fits inline with the radio C2 connector, correct? At least thats what my PAC adapter does...And I bet the company that made your Sirius adapter totally forgot about adding a jumper to "bridge" the VSS wire from the actual radio C2 plug (dash harness), to the Sirius adapter, to the TNR. Follow me? Check out pin E on the Sirius adapter's plugs. I bet you'll find it empty. If it is, take some extra pins that you hopefully have left over from the lux/TNR installation and make a little jumper and plug it into the correct pin locations (E) on the Sirius adapter. Then try it out! Hope that works...


---Ben

[sperry]

Exactly!

PAC includes that wire, apparently they don't!

I would call them with a piece of your mind at least.

Your DTC will clear with about 50 ign on-off cycles, but it's not important anyway.

Now, with that, you can wire in a switch, so you have that control when your moving. Just switch it back for the smoother operation.

Here is the layout of the connector Ben was referring to:



HTH!

[duramaxHD]

Perfect thanks for the diagram Steve...all my tech docs are on my other computer

---Ben

[sperry]

That one was posted on the site. 

[BLUEavyZ71]

Just a little off base here but in right department, I hope so.  A little while ago, I saw some notes about someone installed the navigation in his Grand Am.  I think the original radio was Monsoon.  Do you know what is the DIN for that Monsoon radio?  Wishfully, I could do something about my 02 but Kenwood DDX 7025 would be a last resort if nothing else pan out for a stock looking navigation. 

[lungin]

Thank you, gentlemen.  I'll take a look at that and see if that's it, but I'm relatively sure that it is.

Brad

[sperry]

Just a little off base here but in right department, I hope so. A little while ago, I saw some notes about someone installed the navigation in his Grand Am. I think the original radio was Monsoon. Do you know what is the DIN for that Monsoon radio? Wishfully, I could do something about my 02 but Kenwood DDX 7025 would be a last resort if nothing else pan out for a stock looking navigation.

It's not just fit in the 02, it's the communication with the vehicle.

A member did position his dash modules lower and create enough room for the 2DIN to fit.
Then he used an 03+ trim bezel to make it appear as stock.

So, a flush-fit 2DIN aftermarket Nav could fit and you would have the look you want..

Edit: Typos.

[sperry]

Thank you, gentlemen. I'll take a look at that and see if that's it, but I'm relatively sure that it is.

Brad

Keep us posted!

[BLUEavyZ71]

It's not just fit in the 02, it's the communication with the vehicle.

A member did position his dash modules lower and create enough room for the 2DIN to fit.
Then he i\used an 03+ trim bezel to make it appeas as stock.

So, a flush-fit 2DIN aftermarket Nav could fit and you would have the look you want..

No luck with search engine for that one.  Can you link me to that member or postings.  I want to learn more.  Thanks Sperry.

[sperry]

Here's the link to the topic.

[gmcjimmyguy]

I thought I'd throw in my two cents here -- I've been away from the forum for a little while (got married May 29th, house remodeling projects, all sorts of fun)

But ANYWAYS:

1) Yeah, Class 2 has been around for a little while. I'm not sure exactly how long, but even in vehicles that do NOT have a Body Control Module, such as my two 1996 Chevy Beretta's (first year OBDII vehicles), Class 2 is used for ECM communications. I have a purple Class 2 wire in my DLC connector. Instead of a BCM, I have whats called a MICAM (multifunction indicator, chime and alarm module??) which is hard wired to interior lamps, door locks, 12v constant, turn signals etc.

2) Cadillacs have had navigation back in the 90's that was CD-ROM based, with a changer in the trunk I believe. Also, the first ever Delphi INR radio I saw (which looks basically EXACTLY like our INRs except the bezel and the mounts are slightly diff) was in 2002 in a Pontiac Vibe at some car show I went to. It was a high dollar option, the DVD based Delphi nav unit in the Vibe and Matrix.

I also know that the Oldsmobile Aurora was offered with navigation which had a headunit that looked a LOT like the INR but was CD-ROM based.

3) I bought the COOLEST thing off eBay a few months back. Its a Delco Telepath 100 navigation radio.

This was GM's first attempt at navigation and it was offered as an option in some Oldsmobiles and Buicks, I believe. Its a standard 1.5 DIN Delco Theftlock headunit with a two line VFD screen. It has a PCMCIA socket right on the face for data cards. It has a normal AM/FM cassette radio, can control an external changer as well. Basically, you bring up POIs in your area, push navigate and it tells you how far away it is, and shows an arrow to point you in the direction you need to go. It also has a built-in compass and some other cool stuff. Compared to our INR/TNRs, this thing is utterly laughable -- and I could only imagine how long it would take to get to a destination by driving around, watching pointer arrows until you get "warmer and warmer" - LOL!

But that Telepath radio was an expensive option from '95 and I picked it up for $40 bucks shipped, BRAND NEW in the box. I love Delco/Delphi stock stuff and unique models get my attention for sure.

I also thought the navigation and touch screen crt from the early 90's olds/buicks was interesting:
the car isn't much, but check out the integrated climate control, radio, nav, and PHONE !!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4558533154&category=31865&sspagename=WDVW#ebayphotohosting

[sperry]

Too bad it wasn't better taken care of.. But it did it's time.

Interesting how the technology has no doubt inspired what we have today.

[duramaxHD]

Thought this was interesting...its a Bose amp from a Chevy SSR, but it looks remarkably similar to the 2002 and older Bose amps. (the ones that went in the Escalade/Denali back when they were the only vehicles that got the Bose system).

---Ben

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=38638&item=7987357078

[sperry]

It appears to be the premium amp for the GMT360's. Two-connector. The Lux for those are three-connector, and the bare-casting color.

Envoy, TrailBlazer, Ranier, and of course the SSR. etc.
 

[holstbnet]

GM's all over the place with their amps - I saw the amp in a 2005 Impala LS yesterday and it looked just like that but silver and a few inches shorter. Two plugs as well. I couldn't see if it was a Bose amp or Delphi.

From my own personal experience, the Y91 with the center console sub sounds the best, followed by the 300w? Monsoon system like my mom has in her '01 Alero GL.

[gburnsky]

Just finished installing the Luxury Touch Screen Nav HU, Bose Lux Amp and CD Changer and it worked perfect the first time; way cool

The information on this forum is amazing, I found answers to all my questions.  Thank you sperry and the countless many who contributed.

Here's a couple of things that may be of help.

Tip # 1208746 

Removing the connecting pins from 24 pin connectors.

Forget the pin extractors, screwdrivers, paper clips and all the other gadgets used to remove the connecting pins from the 24 pin connectors, the tool is already included with the 24 pin connector.

The blue pin retainer on the 24 pin connector (the part that looks kinda like a blue comb) works great for inserting into the connector and releasing the pin connectors, just turn it perpendicular to the connector and insert the first "tooth" of the "comb" into the release hole and the pin connector will almost fall out.  Seems like it was made for this.

Just wish I would have known when I started, not on the last two pin connectors I removed.




Tip # 1208747

Removing the plastic to install the in-dash CD changer.

If you have a gun type soldering iron laying around, flatten the standard soldering tip with a hammer to make a blade (they also make special tips for cutting plastic) and use it to melt/cut the plastic.  No dust or plastic pieces flying around, OK a little smoke but not bad.

[sperry]

Who would have ever thunk...

The easiest things are under our noses..   Thanks for posting that! If you don't mind, I'll poke it in the tech center posts for this subject.

Another method is just a copper wire loop, sized to the power of your solder gun.

It's handy to cut and form foam inserts for specialty tool/equipment cases. Just re-form it each time, to your needs.

[gburnsky]

Go ahead and post it.

[sperry]

OK..

And btw,   to CAFCNA!

[sperry]

Done! Thanx!

[pbuilder]

Time to move this up front since people can't find what they need.

[sperry]

And when they need it, it's buried down in the rubble...

Thanx..

[pbuilder]

Ya to bad you cant make it #1 all the time.

[moosc]

 ok im lost ive been reading this post so if put in the y91 upgrade my speakers in the window post will not work? if not how do get them to work............

[mi99z71]

Tip # 1208746 

Removing the connecting pins from 24 pin connectors.

Forget the pin extractors, screwdrivers, paper clips and all the other gadgets used to remove the connecting pins from the 24 pin connectors, the tool is already included with the 24 pin connector.

The blue pin retainer on the 24 pin connector (the part that looks kinda like a blue comb) works great for inserting into the connector and releasing the pin connectors, just turn it perpendicular to the connector and insert the first "tooth" of the "comb" into the release hole and the pin connector will almost fall out.  Seems like it was made for this.

Just wish I would have known when I started, not on the last two pin connectors I removed.

I couldn't get those little blue thing's to work very well. I had picked up one of these little pick's from work for another project, and it's the perfect size. easy to handle.  Part number is 725168, can be had from your local NAPA for about $5-6. Make's life easier, I used it on  connectors C1 & C2 ( at radio), and C1 & C2 ( at amp) . I'm sure if works else where also.

[pbuilder]

ok im lost ive been reading this post so if put in the y91 upgrade my speakers in the window post will not work? if not how do get them to work............

Not sure where you read that. all speakers will work that are installed.

[fred81]

Hi,

I just installed a Navigation Radio (#15204334 ) in my Sierra Denali 2004 (Y91 option).  Had the VIN relearn procedure done with the Tech2 AND the Amp recalibration.
Now I have a really strange problem :
1- If I turn the key to Accessories (or ignition), the radio works fine.

2- As soon as I start the engine, I completely loose the sound (everything else works fine though)

3- When that happens, if I shut the engine and put the key back to Accessories, I do not get the sound back.  The only way is to turn the key off and wait for about one minute then it goes back to the state mention at line #1.  (if I do not wait the one minute, it doesn't work)

4- Now, if (at state mentioned at line 1) I turn the key really quickly to start the engine, kind of bypassing Accessories and Ignition, then the radio works fine with the engine running.

5- The other way of getting it to work while the engine is running is to remote-start it.  Then when I turn the key to ignition the sound keeps on working.

One detail : when I turn the key on, there is a unusual loud (short) click sound coming out of the speakers.

Anybody has an idea? 

[pbuilder]

It sounds like it wasnt programed right.

Maybe

[ltklein]

If you don't have this fixed yet, it is possible that either a connector isn't fully seated or a pin in the connector may have backed out.  This is possible even if you didn't extract any pins.

Probably not the problem, but still an outside chance...

[2003Denali]

Hello,
  I am a new member, just joined today.  I am looking for some instructions on how to reprogram a non_lux TNR to lux.  Does anyone know what the procedure is or know anyone who can do it for me?  Thanks.

[rK99]

Do a search in the forums.  Several have done it.

Heath

[dalerholley]

I would like to give thanks to all the members who helped in this project. A big thanks to Sperry and Younghog. After reading this post I was inspired to start modding and did a NON LUX TNR /w CDX upgrade to my Silverado. Now I am thinking about do ing a LUX amp upgrade.

[PUNISHER]

   so much great info in all three parts of this mod thread.  but, i have a headache now from reading all of it.  not sure if i can contiune to work on it.

[PUNISHER]

   so much great info in all three parts of this mod thread.  but, i have a headache now from reading all of it.  not sure if i can continue to work on it.

   got it all done Thursday night.  went to the Caddy dealer, and had two young ladies attempt to unlock it; glad i had the instructions.   about 3 minutes later i was in business.  they even did it for free!!!   i promised them lunch next week,

[PUNISHER]

   here's a few pics...

[PUNISHER]

   i forgot to mention i have extra (and access to more) terminals needed to run the VSS wire from the speedo connector pin A4 to the 12 pin radio connector pin E if anyone needs them.  just PM me.

[sperry]

Congratz!

I have some of those connectors too. I keep forgeting to mention that unless you have an audio input adapter, you'll need one! (03~04.)

Some adapters have ALL wires extended and as a result, one only needs to tap on a wire that's already on (at least the PAC) adapters.

[PUNISHER]

Congratz!...

   i could not have done it without you!!!

[duramaxHD]

Do a search in the forums.  Several have done it.

Heath

where? As far as I know, TNR programming is not supported thru TIS/SPS. Only way ive heard to reprogram a non-lux TNR to Lux is to send it off to "machomachodan" and he can reprogram it.

ben

[rK99]

where? As far as I know, TNR programming is not supported thru TIS/SPS. Only way ive heard to reprogram a non-lux TNR to Lux is to send it off to "machomachodan" and he can reprogram it.

ben

There you go!

[Chevycruizer]

Great thread.  It took me several days to complete the read (all 3 parts), but it was worth it.  Everything has been addressed but one thing has not been answered by several who have completed this mod.

Several have lost the ability to mute the rear speakers when someone is using the RSA.  Is there an update for this situation?

I have a 04 Av Z-66.  It has the Bose non-lux 6 disc in  the hu stereo with OnStar, XM, RSA and RSE.  I think I have found an EBay auction that will get me everything I need (120068987852) other than the mic and VSS pins.  What do you "pro's" think? 

The only thing is I will not be able to install it for another 6 months and who knows the price might be lower then.  Also I am concerned about loosing the rear speaker muting.

Anyways, to the members that have an extra VSS pin can you email me for contact information.

Thanks a ton and Happy New Year,

John

[ohiobellboy]

OK, I finally got it done. Here's the Pix

new parts


My reference


My Helper. MS03, couldn't have done this without him.


A must have flashlight when working with two hands.


Before


During, that console is a PITA!


Old amp


no amp


New amp


Some wiring


ALL done

Had a small local chevy dealer clear the H/U for me. Mgr told me to take care of the tech. He was happy with $20 for 3 mins. work.
  All told I've got about $700 wrapped up in this project. The diff between the Bose Lux and Bose Premium is unreal!

[moosc]

 ok ohiobellboy your next mod is addng the six disc changer

[MS03 2500]

He was afraid to us the Dremmel

[ohiobellboy]

ok ohiobellboy your next mod is addng the six disc changer

That didn't get put in yesterday with the rime restraints I was running under. Got to the dealer at 4:40pm hoping they weren't too busy, which they weren't.

He was afraid to us the Dremmel

I just looked at that and shook my head...Like what did I get myself into. LOL