2nd Cad Nav in the Av - In & Working! PART 3

[sperry]

You reversed the polarity on the other speakers, but did you do that on one/either voice coil of the woofer?

You can easily tell if a coil is open with an Ohmmeter. If you connect one at a time, you can tell if there's output on each.

Weird that there's low bass as compared with the other vehicle. I doubt the console is much different..

[duramaxHD]

ill go out with my ohmmeter and check the coils in a minute...ill also reverse the polarity of one of the coils. That did occur to me, so i double and triple checked my connections on the amp C2 connector. I never did actually try to swap them tho... I mean its not AWEFUL bass, its just...well...dare I say "Premium" level bass.
If one coil was in fact dead or there was something wrong with it, would bass output actually be less?? If I cant figure it out and changing subs doesnt help, I think ill just use a C2A-GM24 and put in an aftermarket 8" or something...its driving me crazy...because the LUX bass level is just almost perfect for me...ANY bit less just sounds too lacking...

---Ben

[sperry]

One open, a little. One out of phase (swapped polarity), `depends on how they're mixed, as bad as nulling it out near inaudible, to certain parts low and other parts, just down a little.

It's possible that Bose's woofer coils are from each channel separately, via an internal crossover for each channel. Instead of a mono channel bridged somewhere.

Hopefully, you will find something useful with the experiment..

[duramaxHD]

Well I tried everything...didnt seem to make any difference. I still have my "Premium" bass.

BUT!! I tried something else and I bet im the first person to do this... DUAL BOSE SUBS!!! haha. I took the sub out of my Escalade console that I bought and hooked one voice coil up to the left sub output on my lux amp in my truck and left the right sub output hooked up to the sub that was in my standard console. I put the second Escalade sub in the passenger footwell (kinda right next to the other sub) temporarrily to get an idea of how it sounds. WOW!!! Its not too bad!! Its funny I can see a conversation with some of my friends... "what are you runnin??" "ehh two 12s" "two 10s" "four 8s" "ben what are you runnin?" "two 6.5s "
oh boy... well long story short it does sound good and I think thats what ill end up doing. Keep one Bose sub in the center console and make a custom box for the other one to go behind the back seat or something... I want to wire everything in parallel so all of the voice coils in both of the subs are working, but then again, the impedance would double and I would probably get less bass output, no?? So ill leave it as it is. One voice coil of each sub wired to each of the two sub outputs on the amp.

---Ben

[duramaxHD]

Anyone wanna take a guess at where this appearently ancient GM navigation unit is from?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73332&item=5781824242&rd=1

It looks physically to me like an INR but the user-interface is REALLLYYY old looking (first thing i thought of was windows 3.1 vs. XP) and it uses - get this - CD's for nav info!!! I sent some questions to the guy asking what it came out of and could he send some pictures of the back connectors. What was the first GM vehicle to use a double-DIN opening??? Maybe this is from that... Maybe its so old that it works on the E&C data bus!! What a rare gem that would be!!

---Ben

[sperry]

Cadillac or Olds. Cadillac had CD-Based units for a few years before the DVD ones.

[sperry]

The more - the merrier, with the sub's. Beware of the loading though. If you're going for an enclosure, go for an additional (2 Ch)  amp so you don't load down the Class II one.

Ben, did Amos33(?) find you? He was having fits with his lux amp in his Silverado. `Thought maybe you could help him..

[duramaxHD]

Did any vehicles use Class II data for radio/climate communication before the 2003 GMT-800's?? I know there was SOME Class II around before then, but E&C was what controlled all of the radios, climate, etc.. Im dieing to know if that wierd olddd "INR" style nav radio uses E&C!!

Yup, i thought about that with the two subs. I wasnt really looking to keep the set up because the shape of the stock Bose enclosure isnt really suitable to fit anywhere! I mainly just did it for grins to see what would happen. (i just made sure I didnt wire all the subs in series...otherwise i'd be the first person to see a lux amp go up in smoke )

No, Amos33 hasnt found me...lux amp troubles in his Silverado?? Send him my way! Id be happy to help.

---Ben

[sperry]

I hadn't heard from him in a few days. He had an amp in that didn't sound right. He had it reprogrammed and it died. (Sound familiar?) I believe he ordered another amp.

[lungin]

Strange problem.....Everything is in and working great on the LUX NAV upgrade.  I proceed to install a soundgate adapter to run Sirius through my head  unit and I run into two problems immediately.  The first, which I also posted on the Satellite board, is that I'm now getting an alternator whine when the cdx is playing.  Sirius works fine, though.  The second problem is, all of a sudden, I'm able to enter destinations into the NAV while moving?  This wasn't the case before.  This is an '05 Tahoe and I didn't have to extend the VSS wire as it was already present in the harness.  Maybe it came loose?  I don't know!

Any thoughts? 

Brad

[holstbnet]

I thought I'd throw in my two cents here -- I've been away from the forum for a little while (got married May 29th, house remodeling projects, all sorts of fun)

But ANYWAYS:

1) Yeah, Class 2 has been around for a little while. I'm not sure exactly how long, but even in vehicles that do NOT have a Body Control Module, such as my two 1996 Chevy Beretta's (first year OBDII vehicles), Class 2 is used for ECM communications. I have a purple Class 2 wire in my DLC connector. Instead of a BCM, I have whats called a MICAM (multifunction indicator, chime and alarm module??) which is hard wired to interior lamps, door locks, 12v constant, turn signals etc.

2) Cadillacs have had navigation back in the 90's that was CD-ROM based, with a changer in the trunk I believe. Also, the first ever Delphi INR radio I saw (which looks basically EXACTLY like our INRs except the bezel and the mounts are slightly diff) was in 2002 in a Pontiac Vibe at some car show I went to. It was a high dollar option, the DVD based Delphi nav unit in the Vibe and Matrix.

I also know that the Oldsmobile Aurora was offered with navigation which had a headunit that looked a LOT like the INR but was CD-ROM based.

3) I bought the COOLEST thing off eBay a few months back. Its a Delco Telepath 100 navigation radio.

This was GM's first attempt at navigation and it was offered as an option in some Oldsmobiles and Buicks, I believe. Its a standard 1.5 DIN Delco Theftlock headunit with a two line VFD screen. It has a PCMCIA socket right on the face for data cards. It has a normal AM/FM cassette radio, can control an external changer as well. Basically, you bring up POIs in your area, push navigate and it tells you how far away it is, and shows an arrow to point you in the direction you need to go. It also has a built-in compass and some other cool stuff. Compared to our INR/TNRs, this thing is utterly laughable -- and I could only imagine how long it would take to get to a destination by driving around, watching pointer arrows until you get "warmer and warmer" - LOL!

But that Telepath radio was an expensive option from '95 and I picked it up for $40 bucks shipped, BRAND NEW in the box. I love Delco/Delphi stock stuff and unique models get my attention for sure.

[sperry]

Interesting find! Rare goodie indeed.

[lungin]

Sperry,

I don't remember where I saw it, but I thought I read a post from you indicated that if you had an aux. adapter hooked up with the NAV, the VSS wire would  need to be moved to a different location in the radio harness.  Did I read this or am I imagining.  If I did, can you tell me where?  I noticed after I hooked up an aux. adapter for Sirius that I can now plug in destination addresses while moving.  I had checked this prior to installation of the adapter and it functioned as it should by not letting me input dest. addresses. 

Any help would be appreciated. 


Brad

[duramaxHD]

Brad...the adapter fits inline with the radio C2 connector, correct? At least thats what my PAC adapter does...And I bet the company that made your Sirius adapter totally forgot about adding a jumper to "bridge" the VSS wire from the actual radio C2 plug (dash harness), to the Sirius adapter, to the TNR. Follow me? Check out pin E on the Sirius adapter's plugs. I bet you'll find it empty. If it is, take some extra pins that you hopefully have left over from the lux/TNR installation and make a little jumper and plug it into the correct pin locations (E) on the Sirius adapter. Then try it out! Hope that works...


---Ben

[sperry]

Exactly!

PAC includes that wire, apparently they don't!

I would call them with a piece of your mind at least.

Your DTC will clear with about 50 ign on-off cycles, but it's not important anyway.

Now, with that, you can wire in a switch, so you have that control when your moving. Just switch it back for the smoother operation.

Here is the layout of the connector Ben was referring to:



HTH!

[duramaxHD]

Perfect thanks for the diagram Steve...all my tech docs are on my other computer

---Ben

[sperry]

That one was posted on the site. 

[BLUEavyZ71]

Just a little off base here but in right department, I hope so.  A little while ago, I saw some notes about someone installed the navigation in his Grand Am.  I think the original radio was Monsoon.  Do you know what is the DIN for that Monsoon radio?  Wishfully, I could do something about my 02 but Kenwood DDX 7025 would be a last resort if nothing else pan out for a stock looking navigation. 

[lungin]

Thank you, gentlemen.  I'll take a look at that and see if that's it, but I'm relatively sure that it is.

Brad

[sperry]

Just a little off base here but in right department, I hope so. A little while ago, I saw some notes about someone installed the navigation in his Grand Am. I think the original radio was Monsoon. Do you know what is the DIN for that Monsoon radio? Wishfully, I could do something about my 02 but Kenwood DDX 7025 would be a last resort if nothing else pan out for a stock looking navigation.

It's not just fit in the 02, it's the communication with the vehicle.

A member did position his dash modules lower and create enough room for the 2DIN to fit.
Then he used an 03+ trim bezel to make it appear as stock.

So, a flush-fit 2DIN aftermarket Nav could fit and you would have the look you want..

Edit: Typos.

[sperry]

Thank you, gentlemen. I'll take a look at that and see if that's it, but I'm relatively sure that it is.

Brad

Keep us posted!

[BLUEavyZ71]

It's not just fit in the 02, it's the communication with the vehicle.

A member did position his dash modules lower and create enough room for the 2DIN to fit.
Then he i\used an 03+ trim bezel to make it appeas as stock.

So, a flush-fit 2DIN aftermarket Nav could fit and you would have the look you want..

No luck with search engine for that one.  Can you link me to that member or postings.  I want to learn more.  Thanks Sperry.

[sperry]

Here's the link to the topic.

[gmcjimmyguy]

I thought I'd throw in my two cents here -- I've been away from the forum for a little while (got married May 29th, house remodeling projects, all sorts of fun)

But ANYWAYS:

1) Yeah, Class 2 has been around for a little while. I'm not sure exactly how long, but even in vehicles that do NOT have a Body Control Module, such as my two 1996 Chevy Beretta's (first year OBDII vehicles), Class 2 is used for ECM communications. I have a purple Class 2 wire in my DLC connector. Instead of a BCM, I have whats called a MICAM (multifunction indicator, chime and alarm module??) which is hard wired to interior lamps, door locks, 12v constant, turn signals etc.

2) Cadillacs have had navigation back in the 90's that was CD-ROM based, with a changer in the trunk I believe. Also, the first ever Delphi INR radio I saw (which looks basically EXACTLY like our INRs except the bezel and the mounts are slightly diff) was in 2002 in a Pontiac Vibe at some car show I went to. It was a high dollar option, the DVD based Delphi nav unit in the Vibe and Matrix.

I also know that the Oldsmobile Aurora was offered with navigation which had a headunit that looked a LOT like the INR but was CD-ROM based.

3) I bought the COOLEST thing off eBay a few months back. Its a Delco Telepath 100 navigation radio.

This was GM's first attempt at navigation and it was offered as an option in some Oldsmobiles and Buicks, I believe. Its a standard 1.5 DIN Delco Theftlock headunit with a two line VFD screen. It has a PCMCIA socket right on the face for data cards. It has a normal AM/FM cassette radio, can control an external changer as well. Basically, you bring up POIs in your area, push navigate and it tells you how far away it is, and shows an arrow to point you in the direction you need to go. It also has a built-in compass and some other cool stuff. Compared to our INR/TNRs, this thing is utterly laughable -- and I could only imagine how long it would take to get to a destination by driving around, watching pointer arrows until you get "warmer and warmer" - LOL!

But that Telepath radio was an expensive option from '95 and I picked it up for $40 bucks shipped, BRAND NEW in the box. I love Delco/Delphi stock stuff and unique models get my attention for sure.

I also thought the navigation and touch screen crt from the early 90's olds/buicks was interesting:
the car isn't much, but check out the integrated climate control, radio, nav, and PHONE !!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4558533154&category=31865&sspagename=WDVW#ebayphotohosting

[sperry]

Too bad it wasn't better taken care of.. But it did it's time.

Interesting how the technology has no doubt inspired what we have today.