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Author Topic: 6-Speed Manual Transmission Swap  (Read 5724 times)
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Lord Aries
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« on: 10/28/07 04:08 PM »

6-Speed Manual Transmission Swap
A Write Up by Lord Aries


I have always wanted a Manual Transmission in my Avalanche, well I finally got tired of wanting one and decided to do something about it!

WARNING: A lot of reading awaits you below this point but, I think you’ll enjoy it…

This project gets a 5 out of 5 Wrenches rating.
If you don’t understand how a Manual Transmission works and all the parts that go along with it, then you probably shouldn’t attempt this yourself until you have learned.

Plenty of guys out there have converted there 2wd Silverado’s to run a Tremec T-56 6-Speed transmission from a Camaro and this works great… IF you are 2wd and plan to never towing anything bigger then a Jet Ski… But, I wanted to keep my 4x4 and Towing ability if not augment those two things further so, that meant I needed a manual transmission from a Truck…

There are a few options for the GM Trucks in way of Manual Transmissions, here is a list of what was offered on the Silverado’s from 2003-2006:

New Venture NV3500: Light Duty – around 10,000lbs GVWR
5 Speed: 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – OD
Used in 1500 Series Trucks w/4.8L V8 (and with a 5.3L but, very rare)

New Venture NV4500: Medium to Heavy Medium – around 16,000lbs GVWR
5 Speed: Low – 1 – 2 – 3 – OD
Used in 2500 and 3500 Trucks w/6.0L V8 (also used in 96’-2000 Diesels)

ZF S6-650: Heavy to Light Commercial Duty – around 26,000lbs GVWR
6 Speed: Low – 1 – 2 – 3 – 4 – OD
Used in 2500HD to 3500 Trucks w/8.1L Big Block and 6.6L Duramax Diesel

Transmission Gearing Auto vs. Manual Comparison
Note: For Manuals the Low gear is actually 1st gear but, since Low is only used for Towing and/or off-Road use the gear numbers are changed below for an easier comparison of the gear ratios.
Type  Model  Low   1st   2nd   3rd   4th   5th
Auto  4L60e  None   3.06:1   1.63:1   1:1   0.70:1   None
Auto  4L80e  None   2.48:1   1.48:1   1:1   0.75:1   None
Man   NV45   5.61:1   3.04:1   1.67:1   1:1   0.73:1   None
Man   ZF S6   5.79:1   3.30:1   2.10:1   1.31:1   1:1   0.72:1


Let the Madness begin!!!!

Step 1: Determine which Transmissions will fit the 5.3L.
ALL the motors in GM’s line up for the full size trucks have the same exact LS Series Bell Housing bolt pattern, even the Duramax!!! So, you can bolt up any of the Manuals to the 5.3L motor with out a problem.

*LS Series Bell Housing mounting points seen here marked in RED.


*LS Series Bell Housing mounting points seen here marked in RED.



Step 2: Determine which Transmission best Suites my Avalanche and the Cost.
I made some phone calls to a bunch of shops around the US that remanufacture these transmissions to find out which one would hold up in my truck and get the best cost.

The NV3500 was out of the question, it’s not meant for the kind of power my truck makes or the GVWR of the Avalanche. The NV4500 was the logical choice since it is rated for 450hp up to 16,000lbs GVWR. It is tough and since it was used on the 6.0L V8 it would be an easy bolt up swap just like the 4L80e Automatic is from the 2500 Trucks… But, this is me we are talking about!!!! I don’t want the logical easy choice; I want the complicated difficult choice!!! I want the ZF S6-650 6-Speed Monster Transmission!!!

The ZF S6-650 is rated for 650hp up to 26,000lbs GVWR! It’s big, it’s heavy, its made to take a ton of abuse and its just plain badazz! There are guys using stock ZF6’s for Sled Pulling in their Duramax Silverado’s making over 800hp and 1,400lbs of torque towing upwards of 20,000lbs! I think it can handle my ballsy little Turbo Charged 5.3L…  To give you an idea of the sheer mass of the ZF6, the 4L80e and NV4500 weight in about the same at a hefty 185lbs w/out fluid. The ZF6 weights in at a staggering 240lbs w/out fluid!!! The overall case size is larger too and the gear sets are massive…

*Seen here are the ZF S6-650 on the left and the old 4L80e on right.


*Seen here is the ZF6 next to a cordless drill for size comparrison.


Cost: A remanufactured NV4500 can be purchased for about $1,450 Shipped, a remanufactured ZF6 goes for around $3,200 Shipped!!!  So, it looked like I would be doing the NV4500 just due to the cost… But, I got very lucky at the last minute and found a used ZF6 in working condition for only $1,650 Shipped!!! The ZF6’s are very hard to come by used because they just don’t break. The only real way is to find one is out of a wrecked truck and buy it before a Transmission shop does. So, I went for it and snatched that bad boy up and it even came with a 90 day parts warranty.

For most all of the parts on this project you will need GM Factory Parts. I had a ton of help from a great guy named Pat at my local GM Dealer Parts Store, he even gave me wholesale pricing on all my parts since I work for AAA!!!

That said the entire swap can be done for just about $3,800 if you shop your parts wisely and do everything (that you can) yourself! And in case you were wondering, I sold my old Stage-3 Built 4L80e Automatic set up for $2,800. So, I only spent about $600 total out of pocket on this project and that was mostly on the new Drive Shafts. And I made up for some of that cost with sales of other old take off stock parts from my AV…


Step 3: Installing the Drive Line…
Body Lift: Unless you want to cut out the center tunnel/floor of your truck you MUST HAVE a 3 inch body lift to fit the ZF6! According to the Chevy Dealer, the 2500-3500 trucks actually have a factory 2 inch Body Lift on them to accommodate the NV4500, ZF6 and Allison 6-speed Automatic (as well as to clear the 6.6L Duramax in the engine bay)… Trust me when I say this is a must have because the ZF6 BARELY fit under the body of my truck… Not sure if you would really need the Body Lift with the NV4500 since it is smaller then the ZF6….

Flywheel and Clutch: The ZF6 will bolt up to the 5.3L motor thanks to the LS Series Bell Housing design but, you need a Flywheel and Clutch for it. The 8.1L and Duramax have a different Crank output on the Motor so can’t just use a full set from one of them. And the Splines on the ZF6 Shaft are larger then the NV4500’s so, you can’t use the clutch from the 6.0L set up either…

Enter Ace Clutch located in Sanford, FL, these guys know their stuff and got me set up. Simple solution, use the Flywheel for the NV4500 from the 6.0L. Mate that to the Clutch and Pressure Plate for the ZF6 from the 8.1L/6.6L and you’ve got Fun times ahead. Yes, these parts all bolted together like they were meant to be… Oh and unlike the T-56 Camaro setup that uses a girly 10 inch clutch, this set up uses a manly 12 inch clutch. And to top all this off,  I also opted for an Upgraded Heavy Duty 8.1L Towing Clutch/Pressure Plate combo for even more clamping force.

*The Clutch assembly installed onto the 5.3L


Transfer Case: The AutoTrac (NP246) transfer case we have in the Avalanche does not have the correct input shaft size to mate up to the ZF6 (just like with the 4L80e Swap). BUT! The bolt pattern is the same for all of the transfer cases so; this left me with two options:

1) Change to the Transfer Case to the 2500-3500’s NP263 or NP261 (about $900-$1,300)
2) Change the input Shaft $260 self installed or $460 installed

I went with Option #2 and changed the input shaft to the matching 29 Spline shaft for the ZF6. I did this myself in the driveway with instructions I got online, it was strait forward and fun to take apart the Transfer Case and get to see what goes on inside it. After doing this the transfer case bolted right up to the ZF6!

Now you might be thinking that the t-case from a 2500 or 3500 truck (NP261 or NP263) would be a better option but, that wouldn’t be entirely true. The power handling of the NP261 and NP263 over the NP246 is not that much and I love the AutoTrac feature for driving in the Rain and driving in the rain is much trickier with a manual that has this much power in front of it.  So, I chose to keep it and IF I ever manage to break the NP246, then I will switch to the NP263.

*Seen here is the Input Gear Shaft, the old 27 Spline shaft is removed from the planetary gear set and replaced with the new 29 Spline shaft.


Mounts: The ZF6 is almost 2 inches longer then the 4L80e and 4 inches longer then the 4L60e so; I had to modify the Transmission Cross Member to work with the ZF6. This was easy and I finally got to use my welding skills! I also had to notch out a section of the Torsion Bar cross member as well to clear the Transfer Case.

*Seen here is the 4 Inch Extension support mount I made for the Transmission from 1/8 thick steel plate welded at all the seam points.


Drive Shafts: Obviously you will need to make some changes here; you can shorten your factory rear and have a new front made, this is about $350 total… I went for a custom upgraded front and rear using all Spicer Joints and Yokes for more power handling making my cost about $650 total for both.

Starter: I had to swap out to the starter from a 2500HD 6.0L to get proper engagement with the flywheel.


Step 4: Installing the Other Parts…
Clutch Pedal/Master Cylinder: I ordered the factory Clutch Pedal for a 3500 Silverado and after drilling out the pre-marked holes I mounted that it place. YES! Even though the Avalanche was NEVER offered with a manual transmission there are mounting points pre-marked for the clutch pedal!  You will have to move the Throttle Body control (two small bolts and have to trim the Brake pedal down to a manageable size but, hey that’s easy when the other stuff is all ready done for you! Since the Master Cylinder was brand new it even came pre-bled and ready for install!

There is a Clutch Safety switch that you can hook up that does two things:

1) Truck won’t start with the Clutch engaged.
2) Releases the Cruise Control if you push the Clutch in.

I have had cars with Manuals that did not have these two safety features and never had a problem so, opted to not hook them up. I really didn’t want to go hacking into the wring to do it but, the Cruise Control is not working at all so it looks like I don’t have a choice and will have to hook it up at some point.

*Seen here is the new clutch pedal and cut down brake pedal.


Shifter: Well, if you haven’t figured it out yet you have to cut a hole in the floor for the shifter to come up through. This is pretty self explanatory, measure 13 times and cut twice. HAHA   I made the hole just big enough to fit the Shift Tower but, big enough to allow for side to side movement when the drive line twists under heavy acceleration/deceleration. I did this to keep road noise to a minimum; the hole that GM makes is huge and way oversized. The GM Shifter Boot is over $100.00 so; I made my own Boot using a Hurst Rubber Under Boot for sound control, a universal Leather Boot and some Diamond Plate… I think it came out pretty nice for only $32.59.

My used ZF6 was missing the Gear Selector Lever (the part that sticks out the top of the transmission) because it was lost during shipping, GM was back ordered and I couldn’t wait for them. So, I picked up one from a Ford F-350 since they used the ZF6 as well. The Ford shifter is a little different in shape and length but, works out better then the GM one because you don’t have cut the factory knob off to mount a nicer one and the Ford shifter is positioned better (closer to the drive) then the GM one.

*Seen here is the entire Shifter assembly I put together.



Step 4: Tuning…
That leaves us with tuning the trucks computer for the Manual transmission, this can be done by Allan at Nelson Performance or if you have access to something like HP Tuners you can do it yourself. I borrowed HP Tuners from BigBlackAv and did it myself. Not hard at all, you just delete all the parameters for the Automatic transmission and turn off any corresponding error codes.

The only other thing to do is you put the old Automatic’s Gear Selector Sensor (under the truck) into Park or Neutral and Zip tie it up out of the way, this allows you to start the truck with out needing to hook up the Clutch Safety switch AND lets the Transfer Case know its ok to engage Low Range if need be.


If Frankenstein drove a truck…Big… Powerful… Loud… Fast… And just plain old Mean… Yep, this would be what Frankenstein would drive…

You would think the ZF6 would be clunky shifting, and hard to drive fast and smoothly considering its heavy duty nature… But, you (and I) would be entirely wrong! This is a German Engineered modern day transmission that is built to be driven and ooohhhhh can it be driven…

have totally fallen in love with my Avalanche all over again! The power difference of the Manual vs. the Automatic is impressive, the gear ratios of the ZF6 are perfection in never being out of the power curve and the clutch feels strong as an Ox. The shift gates are little larger then you would be used to in a car but, you get used to them very quickly. Before you know it you are rowing through gears and barking tires faster then you think…

« Last Edit: 10/28/07 07:19 PM by Lord Aries » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 10/28/07 04:09 PM »

Update: 10-28-07

Hey everyone, unfortunately my trip to STI-V ended with me being towed home… The 280 mile trip brought a problem with the actual transmission to the surface, thanks to TranyMan's guidance it seems like maybe the Counter Gear Shaft and Counter Gears have some damage from the previous owner. This is not a problem with the install or the project itself, just a result of buying a used transmission.

But, luckily it has a warranty and I will work with them this week to resolve the problem. I would love to know what the previous owner did to damage this transmission because I have seen very, very, very few problems posted on diesel truck sites with them…

I will update this thread once it is fixed and back on the road…
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« Reply #2 on: 10/28/07 04:52 PM »

Enjoyed the reading....* is there pics at these points???I see only type... Wave
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« Reply #3 on: 10/28/07 05:16 PM »

Enjoyed the reading....* is there pics at these points???I see only type... Wave

ditto that - only see red X's.  Looks like maybe you need to sign-in to wherever you hosted the pictures??
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« Reply #4 on: 10/28/07 06:05 PM »

Nice JOB Lord Aries

Been thinking about this one myself.
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« Reply #5 on: 10/28/07 07:14 PM »

ditto that - only see red X's.  Looks like maybe you need to sign-in to wherever you hosted the pictures??

ditto banghead


i did see the pic from the sti thread... gimme a sec and i'll link it over here Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: 10/28/07 07:15 PM »

i am fixing the pics
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« Reply #7 on: 10/28/07 07:19 PM »




 love
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« Reply #8 on: 10/28/07 07:24 PM »

ahhh much better... Isee pics now...... Wave  nice write-up..... Thumbs up!
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« Reply #9 on: 10/28/07 08:18 PM »

Cool Mod!! Thumbs up! Thumbs up!
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« Reply #10 on: 10/28/07 08:21 PM »

Gotta say I'm impressed, Dave.  You also don't have much in teh way of facilities to undertake a challenge like this, which doubles the complexity.

A hearty round of applause from here.
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« Reply #11 on: 10/28/07 08:22 PM »

Excellent write-up, Capt. Jack! It was great to meet you this weekend, and thanks for the delivery of those fender flares.  Thumbs up!
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« Reply #12 on: 10/28/07 08:25 PM »

Thanks guys!
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« Reply #13 on: 10/28/07 08:40 PM »

nice work and great write up  Thumbs up!
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« Reply #14 on: 10/28/07 10:21 PM »

Nice Write up Lord Aries!   Thumbs up!

Keep us updated on the repairs and how the tranny warranty works out!
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« Reply #15 on: 10/29/07 03:27 PM »

UPDATE: 10-29-07

Well, took some stuff apart today and it sounds/feels like its actualy the Rear Axle that has blown itself apart... Took the rear drive shaft out and I can shake/turn the Pinion Gear input shaft about a 1/4-1/5 inch with out the rear end turning.

Next I'll take the rear cover off and see if there are any pieces of metal in the housing... Since the GM 10 Bolt is a some what weak axle I am already starting to research a 14 Bolt or similar Axle swap... Thumbs up!
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« Reply #16 on: 10/29/07 03:33 PM »

LA.....excellent write up...I enjoyed having a sneak peak at it before STI..very  Thumbs up! now I just need you to bring your extra energy to Palm Coast to see what we can do about putting one behind a Big block
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« Reply #17 on: 10/29/07 04:05 PM »

LA.....excellent write up...I enjoyed having a sneak peak at it before STI..very  Thumbs up! now I just need you to bring your extra energy to Palm Coast to see what we can do about putting one behind a Big block

Even though the ZF6 was offered in the Silverado 2500HD with the 8.1L you would still have to do all the same stuff I did, only real change would be that you would use a 8.1L flywheel instead of the 6.0L flywheel like i did...

If you decide to do it for real, I can get you a parts list of all the stuff you will need... Thumbs up!
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« Reply #18 on: 10/29/07 04:17 PM »

If you decide to do it for real, I can get you a parts list of all the stuff you will need... Thumbs up!

Your da man Thumbs up!
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« Reply #19 on: 10/29/07 04:40 PM »

Greate Job. I wish I could have that in mine love
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« Reply #20 on: 10/29/07 05:02 PM »

Very impressive!  Thumbs up!


I bet it did make a huge difference in the performance of the truck buy having lower gear ratios in the lower gears to let that turbo spool quicker.

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« Reply #21 on: 10/29/07 05:52 PM »

...Since the GM 10 Bolt is a some what weak axle I am already starting to research a 14 Bolt or similar Axle swap...

Did something similar years ago in a friends 84 Camaro, 2.8 V-6 5-spd to a 327 V-8/Super T-10, can easily become a never ending search for the next weakest link.

Great write-up BTW.
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« Reply #22 on: 10/29/07 06:37 PM »

Very cool!!!  Thumbs up!
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« Reply #23 on: 11/03/07 11:32 PM »

Thanks for telling me about this thread, Great info. But you're going to have to give me a ride when you get her back
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« Reply #24 on: 11/04/07 07:19 PM »

Nice writeup. Now I'm interested to see your 1/4 times once you get everything sorted out.
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« Reply #25 on: 11/04/07 08:27 PM »

Nice writeup. Now I'm interested to see your 1/4 times once you get everything sorted out.

You and me both! Once i get the new axle in and get some milledge on it I will be heading down to the track... Thumbs up!
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« Reply #26 on: 11/04/07 08:34 PM »

So Dave, did it turn out to be the rear axle and the trans is okay?  Or did you end up with two problems?
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« Reply #27 on: 11/04/07 08:35 PM »

You and me both! Once i get the new axle in and get some milledge on it I will be heading down to the track... Thumbs up!

I think we need to plan a track day GTG for sometime in January Huh
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« Reply #28 on: 11/04/07 08:43 PM »

I think we need to plan a track day GTG for sometime in January Huh
Great idea!
Did you know that besides the wednesday and friday evening test and tunes, Speedworld also has Sunday funday from 10:00AM to 4:00PM.
Maybe we all ought to skip church and go Sunday.

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January 11    "Street Drags"
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January 16    "Street Drags"
Friday
January 18    "Street Drags"
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January 23    "Street Drags"
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January 25    "Street Drags"
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« Reply #29 on: 11/04/07 09:24 PM »

If you folk's can make it the first week Of February I'll come down
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« Reply #30 on: 11/04/07 10:36 PM »

Great idea!
Did you know that besides the wednesday and friday evening test and tunes, Speedworld also has Sunday funday from 10:00AM to 4:00PM.
Maybe we all ought to skip church and go Sunday.

Here's Januarys scherdule:

 Wednesday
January 9    "Street Drags"
Friday
January 11    "Street Drags"
Sunday
January 13    "Funday Sunday"

Wednesday
January 16    "Street Drags"
Friday
January 18    "Street Drags"
Wednesday
January 23    "Street Drags"
Friday
January 25    "Street Drags"
Wednesday
January 30    "Street Drags"


Big laughter with tears sounds great, Tim!!!!!do you know if the first week in Feb is open?
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« Reply #31 on: 11/04/07 11:37 PM »

WOW You rock! Hey good job on taking the ffort to accomplish this when alot of people havent even heard of this, me included. I thought this was on putting a 6spd auto to ur ride but wow.

saw your post on how your selling your tires. And i have to tell you i looked at your trucks pics alot since mine is pewter and black cladding as well and i love the wheels on it. I would buy the rims in a heartbeat but i just put new 17 tire size on mine.
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« Reply #32 on: 11/05/07 06:46 AM »

Big laughter with tears sounds great, Tim!!!!!do you know if the first week in Feb is open?
Wednesday and Friday nights are open the first week.

http://www.speedworlddragway.com/schedule/
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« Reply #33 on: 11/05/07 08:26 AM »

ChevyGuyNC, Yes it is the rear axle and I am allready working on a 1-ton Axle upgrade to match the 1-ton transmission.

butterfingarz, thanks man glad you liked reading about the project!


Going on a Saturday or Sunday to Biflo Drag Track is not a good idea because they usualy don't give out Time Slips, it is purly Heads Up racing. They only do Time Slips on Wednesday and Friday nights for Test and Tune...
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« Reply #34 on: 11/09/07 08:46 AM »

UPDATE: 11-09-07


Ok, I've got my nex axle on order and being built!!! Hopefully will be here a couple of weeks...

It will be a GM 14 Bolt Full Floating 1-Ton Axle w/4.56 gears and a Detroit Gear Locker. Also it will come converted to Disc brakes and I am sending the guy my axle so he can move all the Coil Suspension parts to the new one... That means a Bolt in installation when the new one arrives!

Since the new axle will be 8 Lug Wheel Hubs I will run Wheel adapters in the front so, that I can run 8 Lug Rims all the way around... I also need the Adapters to space the front rims out a little becauset the 14 Bolt axle is wider then the factory 10 Bolt.


As usual I will have a full Write Up, Review and Photos thread for you guys when its done.
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« Reply #35 on: 11/09/07 08:56 AM »

UPDATE: 11-09-07


Ok, I've got my nex axle on order and being built!!! Hopefully will be here a couple of weeks...

It will be a GM 14 Bolt Full Floating 1-Ton Axle w/4.56 gears and a Detroit Gear Locker. Also it will come converted to Disc brakes and I am sending the guy my axle so he can move all the Coil Suspension parts to the new one... That means a Bolt in installation when the new one arrives!

Since the new axle will be 8 Lug Wheel Hubs I will run Wheel adapters in the front so, that I can run 8 Lug Rims all the way around... I also need the Adapters to space the front rims out a little becauset the 14 Bolt axle is wider then the factory 10 Bolt.


As usual I will have a full Write Up, Review and Photos thread for you guys when its done.
Woot!  You rock!
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« Reply #36 on: 11/09/07 09:20 AM »

I think the 8 bolt axles are narrower by 3 inches, or at least they are on the 2500
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« Reply #37 on: 11/09/07 10:00 AM »

love love the writeup dude and love the setup even more
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« Reply #38 on: 11/09/07 10:47 AM »

I think the 8 bolt axles are narrower by 3 inches, or at least they are on the 2500

There are different wdiths availible in the 14 Bolt axles, I am going with one of the wider ones at 70 Inches over the Stock 10 Bolt Avalanche axle that is about 67 Inches wide...
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« Reply #39 on: 11/09/07 11:19 AM »

Not that you're super worried about it, but how has this improved your fuel economy?  I'd be interested in seeing that.
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« Reply #40 on: 11/09/07 11:42 AM »

i see a new driveshaft in someone's future. Thumbs up!
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« Reply #41 on: 11/09/07 12:42 PM »

Not that you're super worried about it, but how has this improved your fuel economy?  I'd be interested in seeing that.

On my drive you Savannah I saw a 2mpg improvment, more even around town!
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« Reply #42 on: 11/09/07 03:37 PM »

Hey Dave aka Lord Aries  Wave your not playing fair...................Your most unique AV keeps getting more so with all these improvements. Heavy Duty Axles, 6 speed manual tranny, and that darn snorkel tube. I guess I'll just have to concede that my poor little 0l'e whitediamond will never be more than the runner up most unique AV. In the greater scheme of things I'm no more than 1st place loser.................. Sad  I need a hug

Great write-up by the way and I can't wait to see and hear about your finished product..................Dave 03
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« Reply #43 on: 11/09/07 05:02 PM »

i can already see who the first to have a diesel av will be.. Big laughter with tears Big laughter with tears
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« Reply #44 on: 11/11/07 03:37 PM »

i can already see who the first to have a diesel av will be.. Big laughter with tears Big laughter with tears
I don't think you're lying. Lord Aries, you have got to be the craziest person on here. To just take a completely good, working transmission and replace it with a manual 6 speed is..... well, I'd rather not say that. How does your brain work to come up with things like this?
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« Reply #45 on: 11/12/07 08:31 AM »

jimbo, I have already looked into a Diesel swap very deep and it CAN be done and it would NOT be that hard to do!!!! Worst part is finding a Complete used Duramax motor in good condition for under $6,000... But, thats a good price considering what the motor is capible of...


joeami, yea my brain is wired a little diffirent then most.  Tongue The creative center has control over pretty much every other part of my brain....
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« Reply #46 on: 11/12/07 04:04 PM »

jimbo, I have already looked into a Diesel swap very deep and it CAN be done and it would NOT be that hard to do!!!! Worst part is finding a Complete used Duramax motor in good condition for under $6,000... But, thats a good price considering what the motor is capible of...


joeami, yea my brain is wired a little diffirent then most.  Tongue The creative center has control over pretty much every other part of my brain....


Hey LA,if you want to do the 6.6 swap...let me know.there is a junkyard over in Moultrie,Ga i know of that can get you the entire 6.6 duramax drivetrain and the accessories for $6,000 with a warranty.
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« Reply #47 on: 11/12/07 04:32 PM »


Hey LA,if you want to do the 6.6 swap...let me know.there is a junkyard over in Moultrie,Ga i know of that can get you the entire 6.6 duramax drivetrain and the accessories for $6,000 with a warranty.

I made a note of this/you in my list of crazy stuff I want... I wonder how much life my little 5.3L has left in it, it would be a shame if my turbo accidently over boosted to say 18lbs and blew it apart...

When I get a new house with a real Garrage, then you will see madness with machinery... Woohoo!


P.S. There are a few other things that are needed with the 6.6L Duramax swap that also drive the cost up...

- Fuel Tank
- Fuel Sending System
- PCM
- Other misc crap
- 2500HD Torsion Bars or Solid Front Axle Conversion
- Oh and of course some good old fasion Welding of the Frame to mount/support the 6.6L Duramax...

But, this is still a viable option when compared to the cost of building a 408 Stroker Motor...  Wink

But, I am getting off topic now...
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« Reply #48 on: 11/12/07 08:14 PM »

I made a note of this/you in my list of crazy stuff I want... I wonder how much life my little 5.3L has left in it, it would be a shame if my turbo accidently over boosted to say 18lbs and blew it apart...

When I get a new house with a real Garrage, then you will see madness with machinery... Woohoo!


P.S. There are a few other things that are needed with the 6.6L Duramax swap that also drive the cost up...

- Fuel Tank
- Fuel Sending System
- PCM
- Other misc crap
- 2500HD Torsion Bars or Solid Front Axle Conversion
- Oh and of course some good old fasion Welding of the Frame to mount/support the 6.6L Duramax...

But, this is still a viable option when compared to the cost of building a 408 Stroker Motor...  Wink

But, I am getting off topic now...

 Big laughter with tears

You want to talk to someone who thinks the same...then here you go.Here's a price/parts list of what you need.These prices are rough estimates,and are negotiable through the people i know.

DriveTrain:6.6l, ZF 6speed,                         :$6000
Accessory drives:                                        :Included with drivetrain
Electronics:PCM,ECM,TCM,etc                      :Included with drivetrain
Instrument cluster:6.6l                                :$200

Frame: Complete 6.6l 6spd                         :$1000
Tank: Plus all fuel lines,pump,sender          :$350
Solid axle conversion kit                              :$1600 +
Ford Solid front Axle: 4.10 geared,ABS        :$1200 +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current Totals                                          $10350 + S/H


I'm still the only one in my area who stuffed a stroker 540ci caddy motor into a 89 RS T-Top Camaro...and didn't have to cut the firewall or fenders out to make it fit. What do you think of those prices?? Send me a PM on stuff you need,and I'll check my sources.
« Last Edit: 11/12/07 08:17 PM by kavesman1 » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: 11/12/07 08:24 PM »

OMG!  I want to drive this Frankenstein AV!    Very impressive LA Shocked
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« Reply #50 on: 11/12/07 09:10 PM »

Lord Aries,  how's the shifter throw?  Long or short?  The only thing that has kept me from buying trucks with manual trannies is the long shifter throw.  I like 'em short and tight...like Danica Patrick...I mean like her car's shifter 
 Cool!
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It's a true hybrid...part Hummer, part Duramax, part rocketship and part Avalanche.

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« Reply #51 on: 11/12/07 09:28 PM »

I like 'em short and tight...like Danica Patrick...I mean like her car's shifter
much better that way


LA, what kind of job do you have that allows you to afford these crazy mods and their possible malfunctions?
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« Reply #52 on: 11/12/07 10:26 PM »

I like 'em short and tight...like Danica Patrick.
 Cool!

mee too !!!
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« Reply #53 on: 11/13/07 08:15 AM »

Kavesman, we'll talk sometime when/if my current motor blows up...

ms38w, the throw is not bad at all and you get used to it real quick. You can drive it like a sports car with pratice.

joeami, its not how much money I make (which is NOT a lot at all Sad ), its the fact I do pretty much ALL my own work... I also am very good at finding low prices on stuff I need (thats the little bit of Jew in me)... For example, usualy I prepare months in advance for an expensive mod, buying parts along the way until I have all i need to get it done...

OH and most importantly in order to afford my modding habbit I do NOT have any pets, wifes and/or kids. LoL Tongue
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« Reply #54 on: 11/13/07 11:10 AM »

OH and most importantly in order to afford my modding habbit I do NOT have any pets, wifes and/or kids. LoL Tongue

or girl/boyfriends hehe
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« Reply #55 on: 11/13/07 11:12 AM »

and will soon be selling his pet rock on ebay!





















 
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« Reply #56 on: 11/13/07 07:29 PM »

(thats the little bit of Jew in me)

LA.. we have talked about this numerous times.. your not a Jew... you are Jew'ish'.
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« Reply #57 on: 11/14/07 08:17 AM »

 Big laughter with tears So true!  Tongue
LA.. we have talked about this numerous times.. your not a Jew... you are Jew'ish'.
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« Reply #58 on: 11/14/07 09:58 AM »

Cool.  That is the one feature (ZF-6) that I wish for nearly daily (except when I was having left knee problems).  I almost ordered an 8.1/ZF6 2500 HD but couldn't justify loosing all the features the AV has. 

You have my mind clicking...   Its almost a reversible swap.  (Just have toput my full console back in). 
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« Reply #59 on: 12/06/07 06:27 PM »

http://www.gmfullsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101319      Cool
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« Reply #60 on: 12/06/07 06:47 PM »


In that writeup he mentioned "nitrous".   It didn't have nitrous the last time that I raced it.  Huh
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« Reply #61 on: 12/06/07 06:57 PM »

Looks great Aries. Can't wait to see it in person.
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« Reply #62 on: 12/11/07 09:25 AM »

In that writeup he mentioned "nitrous".   It didn't have nitrous the last time that I raced it.  Huh

I'm not running NOS...
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« Reply #63 on: 08/27/08 03:05 AM »

Nice swap i am relatively new to the board and catching up on the past. Would it be possible to obtain a list of the parts you need to do this swap from you? what was your approximate cost. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for you time.
Mike

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« Reply #64 on: 08/27/08 08:24 AM »

Nice swap i am relatively new to the board and catching up on the past. Would it be possible to obtain a list of the parts you need to do this swap from you? what was your approximate cost. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for you time.
Mike

I don't know how or think i can send private messages so here is my E-mail address. BBCSTROKER427@comcast.net

The problem you will run into is finding a ZF-6 Transmission for as cheap as I did. It took weeks to find one in running condition and it was literaly one of two in the whole country. No joke, I called every parts yard I caould find and ones that do national searches... You would be looking at $3,000 for a remanufactured one!

Another member here (Lukas) is doing a Manual conversion as we speak! He is doing the NV4500 5-Spd and I have been helping him with the parts he needs. Once he is done I am sure I can get him to post the exact parts he used.
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« Reply #65 on: 08/27/08 09:06 AM »

The problem you will run into is finding a ZF-6 Transmission for as cheap as I did. It took weeks to find one in running condition and it was literaly one of two in the whole country. No joke, I called every parts yard I caould find and ones that do national searches... You would be looking at $3,000 for a remanufactured one!

Another member here (Lukas) is doing a Manual conversion as we speak! He is doing the NV4500 5-Spd and I have been helping him with the parts he needs. Once he is done I am sure I can get him to post the exact parts he used.

I think you have forgotten about me.  I also have a FACTORY NEW zf-6 manual transmission.  It is one of the few things that was installed in a timely manner. I opted to cut the floor out of the truck instead of lifting the AV, and ended up going with an electronic t-case from a one-ton Silverado instead of the sloppy input shaft...too much play in it.  The only thing I lost was the auto-trac feature, but everything else is still done electronically. Tongue
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2002 Z71...Amber DRL's.
turbos removed and FOR SALE OR TRADE
Still got that 408 cid stroker......6.7L ...Yeah, Baby!!!
It's a true hybrid...part Hummer, part Duramax, part rocketship and part Avalanche.

05 PT Cruiser Touring Convertible
02 VTX 1800C
01 Jeep Wrangler Sport
99 Econoline Cobra Conversion
79 Corvette L82
28 Pontiac Six Landau Sedan---SOLD
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« Reply #66 on: 08/27/08 10:05 AM »

MS38W you got any pictures of what it looks like on the interior? How much did you cut out?
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SPINTECH EXHAUST W/ 4 INCH TIPS, 18 INCH MOTO METALS. 35X12.50X18, 4.10s FRONT AND REAR. AMBER DRL, 6 INCH TUFF COUNTRY LIFT, 6.0L SWAP, BUILT 4L60E, DETRIOT TRUE TRAC, 14 BOLT 5 LINK SF REAR DIFF SWAP, ELECTRIC FANS, NELSON PERFORMANCE TUNE, TAYLOR WIRES, HI OUTPUT ALT, 6 INCH LCD MONITOR, CLADDING RESTORE, ON BOARD AIR (IN PROGRESS), DUAL BATTERIES (IN PROGRESS), FRONT DIFF SWAP (IN PROGRESS)
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« Reply #67 on: 08/27/08 10:25 AM »

I think you have forgotten about me.  I also have a FACTORY NEW zf-6 manual transmission.  It is one of the few things that was installed in a timely manner. I opted to cut the floor out of the truck instead of lifting the AV, and ended up going with an electronic t-case from a one-ton Silverado instead of the sloppy input shaft...too much play in it.  The only thing I lost was the auto-trac feature, but everything else is still done electronically. Tongue


Damn, so you are having to Re-Tunnel the body? That will be interesting to see... I still don't understand why you had an issue the input shaft on the T-Case, the input shafts are all the same design for the 241-243-246 t-cases... I have verified this with multipule places that rebuild the t-cases, either something was wrong with your t-case or the shop did not put it back together right.

The only real slack adder in my drive line is the super agressive Detroit Gear locker, that thing had a bit of play due to the spring locking assembely.
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« Reply #68 on: 08/27/08 11:08 AM »

Third times a charm. Here is a pic with the stock input shaft next to the one they ordered, but didn't fit.
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2002 Z71...Amber DRL's.
turbos removed and FOR SALE OR TRADE
Still got that 408 cid stroker......6.7L ...Yeah, Baby!!!
It's a true hybrid...part Hummer, part Duramax, part rocketship and part Avalanche.

05 PT Cruiser Touring Convertible
02 VTX 1800C
01 Jeep Wrangler Sport
99 Econoline Cobra Conversion
79 Corvette L82
28 Pontiac Six Landau Sedan---SOLD
03 Dutchman Lite BH27-Pac-N-Play
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« Reply #69 on: 08/27/08 12:53 PM »

Third times a charm. Here is a pic with the stock input shaft next to the one they ordered, but didn't fit.

Yea thats not right... Mine looked the same as the one that came out only it was 29 spline on the input side...
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« Reply #70 on: 08/27/08 08:43 PM »

Now this might sound like a dumb question. But changing from an automatic to a manual, would that cause any problems out here is california cause of the stupid smog laws? Or once nelson has erased error codes light wouldn't come on?
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04 AVALANCHE Z71
SPINTECH EXHAUST W/ 4 INCH TIPS, 18 INCH MOTO METALS. 35X12.50X18, 4.10s FRONT AND REAR. AMBER DRL, 6 INCH TUFF COUNTRY LIFT, 6.0L SWAP, BUILT 4L60E, DETRIOT TRUE TRAC, 14 BOLT 5 LINK SF REAR DIFF SWAP, ELECTRIC FANS, NELSON PERFORMANCE TUNE, TAYLOR WIRES, HI OUTPUT ALT, 6 INCH LCD MONITOR, CLADDING RESTORE, ON BOARD AIR (IN PROGRESS), DUAL BATTERIES (IN PROGRESS), FRONT DIFF SWAP (IN PROGRESS)
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« Reply #71 on: 08/27/08 09:52 PM »

Now this might sound like a dumb question. But changing from an automatic to a manual, would that cause any problems out here is california cause of the stupid smog laws? Or once nelson has erased error codes light wouldn't come on?

Don't see why it would affect the Smog ruling on the truck... for the Tuning you would ust need a Tune from a Silverado that had a manual and no more codes..
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« Reply #72 on: 08/28/08 02:19 AM »

Thanks for all the help lord aries. I will wait to see if you guys come up with a post on the part needed for the swap. I am assuming your transmission came out of a 01-06 Chevrolet 2500 6.6L/8.1L 4WD

I am assuming this is somewhat of a list to start:

Transmission of Course
Clutch Master Cylinder
Clutch Slave Cylinder
Pressure Plate
Clutch
Associated Bearings
Flywheel
New Starter for Manual
Clutch Pedal Assembly
Lines
New Input Shaft for T-Case

By the way where did you order input shaft from?
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04 AVALANCHE Z71
SPINTECH EXHAUST W/ 4 INCH TIPS, 18 INCH MOTO METALS. 35X12.50X18, 4.10s FRONT AND REAR. AMBER DRL, 6 INCH TUFF COUNTRY LIFT, 6.0L SWAP, BUILT 4L60E, DETRIOT TRUE TRAC, 14 BOLT 5 LINK SF REAR DIFF SWAP, ELECTRIC FANS, NELSON PERFORMANCE TUNE, TAYLOR WIRES, HI OUTPUT ALT, 6 INCH LCD MONITOR, CLADDING RESTORE, ON BOARD AIR (IN PROGRESS), DUAL BATTERIES (IN PROGRESS), FRONT DIFF SWAP (IN PROGRESS)
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« Reply #73 on: 08/28/08 08:39 AM »

Thanks for all the help lord aries. I will wait to see if you guys come up with a post on the part needed for the swap. I am assuming your transmission came out of a 01-06 Chevrolet 2500 6.6L/8.1L 4WD

I am assuming this is somewhat of a list to start:

Transmission of Course
Clutch Master Cylinder
Clutch Slave Cylinder
Pressure Plate
Clutch
Associated Bearings
Flywheel
New Starter for Manual
Clutch Pedal Assembly
Lines
New Input Shaft for T-Case

By the way where did you order input shaft from?


Yep, the trick is you need to mix the following to make it work.

- Flywheel from a 2500HD with the 6.0L V8 and a 5-Spd Manual
- Clutch and pressure plate from a 2500HD with the 8.1L V8 and the 6-Spd Manual.
- Slave and Master from the 2500HD with the 8.1L V8 and the 6-Spd Manual

The 4wd ZF-6 has a 29 Spline out put shaft, you can eiether swap the shafts on the t-case (which didn't work for ms38w)... Or just get an NP243 T-Case from the 2500HD 8.1L with the 6-Spd Manual and just swap it into the truck. You will just loose the Autotrac 4wd features but, who cares about that anyways? Personaly if I had the money at the time and had known, I would have swapped in the fully manual NP241 t-case and done away with the electronis all together! I still plan on that if I can't sell the truck...
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« Reply #74 on: 08/28/08 10:53 AM »

Yep, the trick is you need to mix the following to make it work.

- Flywheel from a 2500HD with the 6.0L V8 and a 5-Spd Manual
- Clutch and pressure plate from a 2500HD with the 8.1L V8 and the 6-Spd Manual.
- Slave and Master from the 2500HD with the 8.1L V8 and the 6-Spd Manual

The 4wd ZF-6 has a 29 Spline out put shaft, you can eiether swap the shafts on the t-case (which didn't work for ms38w)... Or just get an NP243 T-Case from the 2500HD 8.1L with the 6-Spd Manual and just swap it into the truck. You will just loose the Autotrac 4wd features but, who cares about that anyways? Personaly if I had the money at the time and had known, I would have swapped in the fully manual NP241 t-case and done away with the electronis all together! I still plan on that if I can't sell the truck...

If you can't sell it...MOD IT!!!!!!! Beating
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Be sure to check my web page often for updates  to the 1000HP Avalanche project!

2002 Z71...Amber DRL's.
turbos removed and FOR SALE OR TRADE
Still got that 408 cid stroker......6.7L ...Yeah, Baby!!!
It's a true hybrid...part Hummer, part Duramax, part rocketship and part Avalanche.

05 PT Cruiser Touring Convertible
02 VTX 1800C
01 Jeep Wrangler Sport
99 Econoline Cobra Conversion
79 Corvette L82
28 Pontiac Six Landau Sedan---SOLD
03 Dutchman Lite BH27-Pac-N-Play
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« Reply #75 on: 08/28/08 11:47 AM »

If you can't sell it...MOD IT!!!!!!! Beating


Oh trust me, if the truck doesn't sell its going to get a hell of a make over. I am going to fix everything GM screwed up as far as the rest of the drive train goes.
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« Reply #76 on: 08/28/08 12:37 PM »

i might have found a tranny already..which would be great. I am pieceing togethter the parts little by little.
How much did you have to mod your cross member?

Just curious...you have ford keys and a 3 inch body lift and you can clear 35's?
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04 AVALANCHE Z71
SPINTECH EXHAUST W/ 4 INCH TIPS, 18 INCH MOTO METALS. 35X12.50X18, 4.10s FRONT AND REAR. AMBER DRL, 6 INCH TUFF COUNTRY LIFT, 6.0L SWAP, BUILT 4L60E, DETRIOT TRUE TRAC, 14 BOLT 5 LINK SF REAR DIFF SWAP, ELECTRIC FANS, NELSON PERFORMANCE TUNE, TAYLOR WIRES, HI OUTPUT ALT, 6 INCH LCD MONITOR, CLADDING RESTORE, ON BOARD AIR (IN PROGRESS), DUAL BATTERIES (IN PROGRESS), FRONT DIFF SWAP (IN PROGRESS)
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« Reply #77 on: 08/28/08 01:02 PM »

i might have found a tranny already..which would be great. I am pieceing togethter the parts little by little.
How much did you have to mod your cross member?

Just curious...you have ford keys and a 3 inch body lift and you can clear 35's?


These should help get you going:

1- Clutch Pedal Assembly #15027983   
1- Clutch Slave w/Line #15019756   
1- Clutch Master w/Line & Switch #12572806    
1- Shifter Stick w/6-Spd Knob #15179181      

I can't promise these are perfect so confirm them with a local GM parts guy.

The cross member is easy, just extend about 4 inches using of plate steel welded to it. I had to notch the Torsion Bar cross member too just a tiny bit to clear the T-Case.


Yes I have 35's w/3 Inch BL and Keys... BUt, 35's really are too big for the set up. You WILL need a Body lift to clear the transmission unless you want to retunnel the floor pan...
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« Reply #78 on: 11/30/08 07:53 PM »

Did something similar years ago in a friends 84 Camaro, 2.8 V-6 5-spd to a 327 V-8/Super T-10, can easily become a never ending search for the next weakest link.

Great write-up BTW.

Just for the record...this is EXACTLY why I had the ENTIRE driveline rebuilt with heavy-duty parts right from the beginning.  It costs a lot up front, but will save heart-ache in the end...if you can find someone willing AND ABLE to not only perform, but COMPLETE the task!!! Thumbs up!  Lord Aries was my inspiration and a great resource for information.
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Be sure to check my web page often for updates  to the 1000HP Avalanche project!

2002 Z71...Amber DRL's.
turbos removed and FOR SALE OR TRADE
Still got that 408 cid stroker......6.7L ...Yeah, Baby!!!
It's a true hybrid...part Hummer, part Duramax, part rocketship and part Avalanche.

05 PT Cruiser Touring Convertible
02 VTX 1800C
01 Jeep Wrangler Sport
99 Econoline Cobra Conversion
79 Corvette L82
28 Pontiac Six Landau Sedan---SOLD
03 Dutchman Lite BH27-Pac-N-Play
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Chevy Avalanche Fan Club Forum  |  Avalanche Owners Zone  |  Chevy Avalanche Performance Modifications  |  Perf: Drivetrain Brakes & Suspension (Moderator: Loggie)  |  Topic: 6-Speed Manual Transmission Swap
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