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Author Topic: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!  (Read 20617 times)

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beergut

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Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« on: 08/22/10 09:54 AM »

I bought my 2004 at around 66k also- now it has about 100k-

lets see...

speedometer is broken
steering clunks left to right
ac blows hot air on drivers side
cv boots torn
wiper motor burnt out
front hub bearings gone
going on 3rd factory installed transmission within 5 months (don't even get me started!)
rear diff cover leaking

and I only drive it about 35 miles a day to & from work with an occasional trip to maine (from mass) I have to baby it for fear it will break again.

This is the worst truck I've ever owned and I'm in the process of trading it in now- maybe for a ford crossover or a toyota tacoma- done with chevy and their over-hyped & over priced avalanche!
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beergut

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #1 on: 08/22/10 10:06 AM »

Sorry- don't mean to be a hater and I used to love my avalanche but I can't take this truck anymore!

I've never had a truck with so many issues! lets see...

speedometer is broken
steering clunks left to right
ac blows hot air on drivers side
cv boots torn
frozen brake caliper
wiper motor burnt out
front hub bearings gone
going on 3rd factory installed transmission within 5 months (don't even get me started!)
rear diff cover leaking

and I only drive it about 35 miles a day to & from work with an occasional trip to maine (from mass) I have to baby it for fear it will break again.

This is the worst truck I've ever owned- I've already been a few rounds with Chevy customer care they ended up not helping in any way- and the factory tech who's been in the garage for 18 years says these trucks are always in with tranny & electrical problems! I'm in the process of trading it in now- maybe for a ford crossover or a toyota tacoma- done with chevy and their over-hyped & over priced avalanche! bye bye chevy crapalanche :E:
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beergut

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #2 on: 08/22/10 10:12 AM »

2004 avalanche- 100k miles

speedometer is broken
steering clunks left to right
ac blows hot air on drivers side
cv boots torn
frozen brake caliper
wiper motor burnt out
front hub bearings gone on both sides (left me stranded 500 miles from home in Holton, ME)
going on 3rd factory installed transmission within 5 months (don't even get me started!)
rear diff cover leaking

These trucks fall apart like wet newspaper in a wind storm once they reach 99k! Junk!
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beergut

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #3 on: 08/22/10 10:22 AM »

2004 avalanche- 100k miles

speedometer is broken
steering clunks left to right
ac blows hot air on drivers side
cv boots torn
frozen brake caliper
wiper motor burnt out
front hub bearings gone on both sides (left me stranded 500 miles from home in Holton, ME)
going on 3rd factory installed transmission within 5 months (don't even get me started!)
rear diff cover leaking

These trucks fall apart like wet newspaper in a wind storm once they reach 99k! Junk!
The new Avalanches look horrible- and I'd never buy another avalance again- I'll be trading this one- in about 3 days. Getting either a new ford edge crossover or a toyota tacoma. 
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mrosenfield

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #4 on: 08/22/10 10:39 AM »

Sorry you are having so many problems.
 I have a 2003 3/4ton 4x4, with 119k miles on it. I use it regularly to haul stuff for work, including pulling a 12000lb car hauling trailer 300 miles, about once a month.

I have replaced the left front wheel bearing twice, and the right front once. I have replaced the tie rod ends and drag link, and done the front brakes once.
The only problem I'm currently having is that the tach quits when it gets hot (I live in Phoenix, where it has been 108-110), and the driver's seat is torn.

So I'd have to say that maintenance has been a bit higher that I'd like, but nothing extreme.
And this is definitely the most versatile vehicle I've ever owned. I dread having to replace it with a regular pickup, GM or any other brand!
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beergut

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #5 on: 08/22/10 11:33 AM »

versitile yes- reliable no.
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coonhunter1

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #6 on: 08/22/10 11:37 AM »

What year and how many miles are one it? I have a 03 with 145,000 miles on it with and have had no problem get regular maintenance.  :thumbsup:
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MyBigToy

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #7 on: 08/22/10 11:42 AM »

Sorry you had the problems. Did you buy the truck new or used? Not that it really matters since you've decided to get rid of it; it sounds like you got a lemon. I've got 65K on my 02, 40k of those with the Magnacharger in place. Mine has been the best vehicle I've ever owned. Other than the brake recall and the cats going out within the warranty period it's been trouble-free. I believe you'll find the vast majority of owners have had a good experience.
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Gone but never forgotten: 2002 LPM Z71 - Magnacharger w/3" pulley, TOG's headers, 216/224-.551/.551-115 cam/pushrods/dual springs/titanium retainers, built tranny, Yank TT2600 converter, 24K GVW Tru-Cool tranny cooler, Flex-A-Lites, ProCold intake, MSD wires & TR6 plugs, 20" Panther Juice 6's, 2.8" rear lowering springs, J&J Enterprises stainless grille, custom metal rear step bumper. Best vehicle I have owned to date!

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beergut

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #8 on: 08/22/10 12:42 PM »

What year and how many miles are one it? I have a 03 with 145,000 miles on it with and have had no problem get regular maintenance.  :thumbsup:

It's a 2004 just turned 100k (babied highway miles) - been having problems since 70k-
regular maintenance???  ::) it's been to the dealer 7 times since I bought it 6 months ago! They've had it almost equal as much as I've had it!

My problems seem to be echoed by many other avalanche owners- so saying it's a lemon isn't quite accurate- more like substandard cheap Chinese parts or poor engineering. When thousands of people complain about the same exact  problems- it's not a "lemon" issue... it's a quality control issue.
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Flint4x4

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #9 on: 08/22/10 01:10 PM »

It's a 2004 just turned 100k (babied highway miles) - been having problems since 70k-

it's been to the dealer 7 times since I bought it 6 months ago!

70k in 6 years then you did 30k in 6 months ?
It sounds like it wasn't driven regularly with no regular maintenance, believe it ot not if the previous owner only took rare long distance trips with it on the highway just sitting for long periods can cause many of your problems.
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FWD + RWD = 4x4, loaded '04 AV totaled late 2016

beergut

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #10 on: 08/22/10 01:31 PM »

70k in 6 years then you did 30k in 6 months ?
It sounds like it wasn't driven regularly with no regular maintenance, believe it ot not if the previous owner only took rare long distance trips with it on the highway just sitting for long periods can cause many of your problems.


I don't think the 30k I drove it is the problem- The truck isn't driven over 65mph and 80% are highway miles to & from my summer home in Maine- I can justify replacing wheel bearings at 100k- but 3 trannys with different failures every time? (no lie) speedo gage? ac issues and a wiper motor??? and just recently my drivers window motor is acting up- hardly pushes the window to the top.

 Sorry bro- these are all known issues with these avalanches (come to find out a little too late) and a little highway driving does not justify these kinds of failures- poor craftsmanship and cheap parts does.

Even Chevy acknowledged epic failures with the ac system & transmission when I got into it with them, but stopped short of helping financially. They offered to mediate between the previous repair facility and the new one via 3-way conference calls- that's about it. I need a reliable vehicle for my family and me, and the 2002-2005 avalanche simply has too many issues be considered even a 3 star vehicle.
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MyBigToy

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #11 on: 08/22/10 02:20 PM »

It's obvious you've made your mind up and have closed it to any thoughts except yours. Good luck wherever you go in the future....... :wave:
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Gone but never forgotten: 2002 LPM Z71 - Magnacharger w/3" pulley, TOG's headers, 216/224-.551/.551-115 cam/pushrods/dual springs/titanium retainers, built tranny, Yank TT2600 converter, 24K GVW Tru-Cool tranny cooler, Flex-A-Lites, ProCold intake, MSD wires & TR6 plugs, 20" Panther Juice 6's, 2.8" rear lowering springs, J&J Enterprises stainless grille, custom metal rear step bumper. Best vehicle I have owned to date!

Daily driver: 2012 Centennial edition 4LT Grand Sport Corvette convertible

Flint4x4

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #12 on: 08/22/10 03:31 PM »

driver window regulator is normal if it freezes shut, try to use it then it breaks

Some of the other things too, you don't know for sure how it was treated since 2004
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coonhunter1

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #13 on: 08/22/10 03:49 PM »

There is no way that it is that bad are chevy would have had alot offset recalls it sounds like it was a lemon and has not been properly  maintained not because of bad parts look at the people that still have 02 with only regular maintenance.
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gaindian

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #14 on: 08/22/10 04:05 PM »

I don't think the 30k I drove it is the problem- The truck isn't driven over 65mph and 80% are highway miles to & from my summer home in Maine- I can justify replacing wheel bearings at 100k- but 3 trannys with different failures every time? (no lie) speedo gage? ac issues and a wiper motor??? and just recently my drivers window motor is acting up- hardly pushes the window to the top.

 Sorry bro- these are all known issues with these avalanches (come to find out a little too late) and a little highway driving does not justify these kinds of failures- poor craftsmanship and cheap parts does.

Even Chevy acknowledged epic failures with the ac system & transmission when I got into it with them, but stopped short of helping financially. They offered to mediate between the previous repair facility and the new one via 3-way conference calls- that's about it. I need a reliable vehicle for my family and me, and the 2002-2005 avalanche simply has too many issues be considered even a 3 star vehicle.

Sad to see you're having these issues. 30K in 6 months AND replaced 3 trannies during that time, as well as other issues! Wow! Do you take the scenic route thru Texas to your summer home? Just sayin'.
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beergut

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #15 on: 08/22/10 04:15 PM »

It's obvious you've made your mind up and have closed it to any thoughts except yours. Good luck wherever you go in the future....... :wave:


hahaha- are you serious? "closed it to any thought except mine." Yes, I have my own thoughts, because the ones posted above don't make any sense, sorry to disagree but I am the worlds most leading authority on my opinion, and my opinion is based on a solid foundation of facts compromised by the sum of many hours of research and reading over the past 6 months since I bought this money pit.

I'm a Quality Control Analyst for one of the worlds largest pharmaceutical research manufacturers- before my current position I was a QC Analyst for a manufacturer that fabricated "machines" for military / government applications- QC is my field, it's what I know.

That being said...  A few problems here and there over the course of many years, on any one vehicle's model in particular is normal- BUT similar complaints (in the thousands) about very specific failures in a very particular model year cluster is not to be considered a "lemon" vehicle purchased from a dealer. Simply put, it's a failure by the manufacturer to utilize the proper research & development and to secure quality components to build their automobiles. This is why european & Japanese manufacturing is far superior to that found here in America. European manufacturers allocate a much larger percentage of money on research & design and emphasize  the importance of quality engineering. American manufacturers spend more money designing vehicles with pretty bells & whistles to entice the consumer into a purchase. This is a fact, by the way, not an opinion- It was my undergraduate thesis.

The failures I have experienced with this truck are not caused by a lack of using it- or as a result of driving it 30k miles in the past 6 months. Justifying these failures as "common" is ludicrous and is the path I expected die hard pro avalanche owners to take.

The truck I bought was (ascetically)  perfect in every way, with a clean car-fax with regular service records reported.
Your comments about regular service makes absolutely no sense to me! What type of maintenance are you referring to? What maintenance do you perform for a wiper motor, door window motor, AC actuator and a speedo gage cluster??? What kind of "regular maintenance" ensures a transmission won't need to be replaced 3 TIMES IN THE PAST 5 MONTHS!!!

Your comments make absolutely no sense taken in the context of my truck's failures! And the cherry on top of this heap of mechanical failure is that THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO OWN THE SAME VEHICLE ARE HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS!!!!!  

A sincere thank you to those who tried to help, I appreciated your input.     :wave:
« Last Edit: 08/22/10 04:27 PM by beergut »
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msdinsp

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #16 on: 08/22/10 04:31 PM »

Looking at your problems, I see some that look like regular service items for a truck with 100,000 miles.
Wiper motor, for that mileage, I wouldn't have a problem replacing.
Same with window motor.
Speedo guage cluster - I would expect that to last life of vehicle.
AC actuator, depends on dust and other items that have been sucked through system.

It appears that the most valid complaint is on the tranny - should definitely should last longer than yours have. One of two things appear to be happening to me, problems are since you have owned it. to me it could definitely be an owner problem, or whoever is rebuilding the tranny.
Chevy is not rebuilding the trannies, so to put the blame on them is ridiculous.
Whoever is doing the rebuild is the other possibiltiy.
I realize that you are defending your opinion of what I and many on here have found to be a great truck. but put the blame where it belongs.
It is either the owner or whoever is doing the tranny work, that is causing the majority of the trouble.
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MyBigToy

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #17 on: 08/22/10 04:54 PM »


I'm a Quality Control Analyst for one of the worlds largest pharmaceutical research manufacturers- before my current position I was a QC Analyst for a manufacturer that fabricated "machines" for military / government applications- QC is my field, it's what I know.


My whole career - 27 years to date - has been spent in Quality Engineering/Management in manufacturing of various types (electric motor manufacture; surface mount capacitor manufacture; tier one polyurethane foam manufacture for many domestic and foreign OEMs; aluminum and zinc diecasting, machining, assembly, and testing for heavy equipment manufacture; tier one stamping and assembly of decorative and structural trim for automotive; tier one extrusion and injection molding of EPDM rubber for automotive; tier one assembly and testing of automotive seating for JIT delivery; and the past two years have been in the manufacture of medium power transmission transformers) so I am also aware of what quality is and is not. I've been all over the world and seen good and bad manufacturing in many countries. I may just have a little relevant experience to pass judgment also......

I'll give you that GM made a really poor decision regarding the 4L60E in the Avalanche but something is wrong with the trannies being installed if you've burned through 3 trannies in 5 months. Mine's been behind my supercharged Av with 475 hp or better for 40k miles now (65K total miles) and it's still surviving. The cluster issue was a known and documented defect that GM should have (and did, as far as I know) stood behind.

European manufacture superior to American...... :laugh: .....and how much more does the European product cost? Every person I've known that owned an Audi had nothing but problems with it and it costs and arm and a leg to fix them. Japanese manufacture was in the past but how about that current Toyota quality?  :o

In my experience routine maintenance has very much to do with how well a vehicle lasts. I would consider a window regulator motor going out in a truck with over 100K miles to be normal maintenance; that driver's window has been up and down a zillion times in that many miles. Same goes for a/c service with that many miles.

You can do the same research on ANY manufacturer's vehicle that's sold in large volume and find thousands of complaints about some type of issue with their vehicles also so that argument holds no water either.

Like I said to start, sorry you had the problems but don't bash the record of the Avalanche based on your bad experience. As I stated, there are many more here on the forum that have had a positive rather than negative ownership experience. I've been here since almost day one.  :cheers: and Sayonara.
« Last Edit: 08/22/10 05:05 PM by MyBigToy »
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Gone but never forgotten: 2002 LPM Z71 - Magnacharger w/3" pulley, TOG's headers, 216/224-.551/.551-115 cam/pushrods/dual springs/titanium retainers, built tranny, Yank TT2600 converter, 24K GVW Tru-Cool tranny cooler, Flex-A-Lites, ProCold intake, MSD wires & TR6 plugs, 20" Panther Juice 6's, 2.8" rear lowering springs, J&J Enterprises stainless grille, custom metal rear step bumper. Best vehicle I have owned to date!

Daily driver: 2012 Centennial edition 4LT Grand Sport Corvette convertible

cooncitycornflake

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #18 on: 08/22/10 04:55 PM »

I always find it interesting that my local mechanic knows the common problems for all the car/trucks I bring him, such are mechanicals and materials.  One benefit of buying used so others can find the failing for you to consider models against.  When my ford turned out to hit many of the negatives of the model it got replaced with my chevy.  When my Chevy start to hit the failings of this model, it to would be a pos to me. I just hope to get further down the road from where you got stuck or mine too would be my last chevy.  I can't believe what some people seem to accept for the sake of blind brand loyalty.   Enjoy shopping for your next and the objective studies.
« Last Edit: 08/22/10 05:20 PM by cooncitycornflake »
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MyBigToy

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #19 on: 08/22/10 05:12 PM »

I can't believe what some people seem to accept for the sake of blind brand loyalty.   Enjoy shopping for your next and the objective studies.
me

I'm anything but blind and brand loyal. I've owned 15+ vehicles since I started driving and have owned many different brands - Chevrolet, GMC, Ford, Dodge, Mazda, Honda, Mercury, Lincoln, Buick. I've only had what I would consider one bad vehicle and that was a 1985 Ford Bronco II, my first new vehicle purchase.
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Gone but never forgotten: 2002 LPM Z71 - Magnacharger w/3" pulley, TOG's headers, 216/224-.551/.551-115 cam/pushrods/dual springs/titanium retainers, built tranny, Yank TT2600 converter, 24K GVW Tru-Cool tranny cooler, Flex-A-Lites, ProCold intake, MSD wires & TR6 plugs, 20" Panther Juice 6's, 2.8" rear lowering springs, J&J Enterprises stainless grille, custom metal rear step bumper. Best vehicle I have owned to date!

Daily driver: 2012 Centennial edition 4LT Grand Sport Corvette convertible

cooncitycornflake

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #20 on: 08/22/10 05:26 PM »

If you thought my observation was directed at you, please rest assured that it was not.
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beergut

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #21 on: 08/22/10 05:27 PM »

Looking at your problems, I see some that look like regular service items for a truck with 100,000 miles.
Wiper motor, for that mileage, I wouldn't have a problem replacing.
Same with window motor.
Speedo guage cluster - I would expect that to last life of vehicle.
AC actuator, depends on dust and other items that have been sucked through system.

It appears that the most valid complaint is on the tranny - should definitely should last longer than yours have. One of two things appear to be happening to me, problems are since you have owned it. to me it could definitely be an owner problem, or whoever is rebuilding the tranny.
Chevy is not rebuilding the trannies, so to put the blame on them is ridiculous.
Whoever is doing the rebuild is the other possibiltiy.
I realize that you are defending your opinion of what I and many on here have found to be a great truck. but put the blame where it belongs.
It is either the owner or whoever is doing the tranny work, that is causing the majority of the trouble.

These transmissions are Chevy remanned / rebuilt- they are being rebuilt and installed by Chevy ASE techs. As far as it being an "owner operator" problem- total miles between tranny 2 and 3 ... 254 miles (2 weeks) It's not something I'm doing, not even close- unless shifting a tranny into D from P is considered wrong.


quote:
"European manufacture superior to American......  .....and how much more does the European product cost? Every person I've known that owned an Audi had nothing but problems with it and it costs and arm and a leg to fix them. Japanese manufacture was in the past but how about that current Toyota quality?"

I'm not digging out my 8 year old research paper now- but you need to do some research yourself. I spent over half a year writing my 40 page paper comparing foreign & domestic vehicle research, design & engineering- The statements I made are 100% accurate, there are published reports on the subject to back it up straight from the manufacturers. I used these documents in my research paper.
If you are as experienced in QC / R&D and continuing engineering projects as you say you are, this really should be no surprise to you. As the finest vehicles ever manufactured in the world are all foreign. American R&D is a joke. Audi (Volkswagen) spends more money on interior ergonomic design concepts and engineering then Chevy does on an entire vehicle from crank bearings to bumper mounts- this is just a very well know fact. Don't even get me started on what Porsche spends on engine R&D compared to what Chevrolet spends on engine R&D- you'd be very embarrassed.
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ms38w

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #22 on: 08/22/10 05:28 PM »

Given that the mileage equates to roughly 167 miles per day, 7 days a week for 6 months, I don't see how his driving pattern would cause a transmission failure.  2.5 hours driving at 65 mph should make the tranny happy if anything.  These issues are caused from poor quality repair and/or service on the parts involved.  Even though the window, and wipers should not be failing at this point, it is not uncommon for them to fail at this stage in their life.  If he only drove while it was pouring down rain and had the wipers on "hi" for 30k miles, I might expect them to fail even sooner.  If he rolled the window all the way up , then all the way down, and repeated this process for 30k miles, I would expect the window motor to fail prematurely.  But I doubt this was the case.  Still, these things do fail at any given time.  It's the nature of electro-mechanical items.  Even the gauges can fail at any time.  All these items can fail about the same time.  It's never expected or welcomed.  But it's something we all must deal with.  The transmission would be the main deciding factor here.  I would insist on a new transmission, not a rebuilt one.  I have never been a big fan of anything rebuilt.  And certainly not from the same place in such a short time.  It is unfortunate that these problems have ruined how he perceives the vehicle.  How can we be sure that the carfax was accurate?  If it had never been serviced by a recognized facility, there would be no record of the service ( or lack there of).  Even if it were taken to a recognized facility that reported the services to carfax, it's only paperwork.  We don't know that the tranny was flushed and serviced properly just because the shop manager put it on the ticket.  If the shop was trying to cut corners and only replace a portion of the tranny fluid with new, that would be detrimental to the tranny.  There are too many factors involved to say that all Avalanches are junk.  His may be junk.  He might not have the know-how or willingness to tinker with it and see what's really going on.  Maybe the dealership where it is being repaired is hard up to sell him another vehicle.  I agree that many parts put into these and many other vehicles are inferior.  I look at all of that when I look to buy a vehicle.  In many cases, I would buy a used vehicle over a new one simply based on the materials and fit/finish.  I looked at new Silverado's a few years ago...didn't like the way the plastic in the center console felt.  Plastic is here to stay, but there are different quality levels even in plastic.  
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GeauxLSU

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #23 on: 08/22/10 05:54 PM »

When I bought my Avy I did one thing I swore I'd NEVER do and something else I didn't think I'd do until a few years later. 
The first thing was buy a brand new model of vehicle it's first year out.  I swore I'd NEVER do that!  I bought my Z66 in September of 2001. 
The second thing I didn't think I'd have done until a few years later was buy domestic.  (Admitedly it was odd selling a made in Tennessee Nissan to buy a made in Mexico GM.   ???
In my 30 years of driving I've owned multiple Toyotas, Nissans, Pontiacs, a Ford and a 5 series BMW.  The only 'POS' in the bunch was the BMW (but it did drive nice  ::) ). 
My Avy has 106k miles on it and has never had one single item go wrong.  Literally, not one.  I just bought it's third set of tires, and it's third battery.  Besides oil changes (oops, I lied, I replaced a headlight bulb that burned out the other day and the driving lights) that is it.  And I mean that is it!   Though I drive it pretty conservatively,  I certainly have not 'babied' it by any means when it comes to maintenance, meaning I won't tell when I had the other fluids changed (but it rhymes with NEVER).  The only time it has ever been to a dealer is when I had the working perfectly fine tailgate cables replaced for free with the coated ones under the only recall notice I've ever received.   That 2 minute replacement was well.... 2 minutes.   For crying out loud I'm on the original brake pads! 
Sorry you got a bad AVY.  Good luck with your new ride...  whatever it is. 
If it makes you feel better, I'm mad at Gubment Motors too... but it sure isn't because of the quality of my ride.   ;)
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coonhunter1

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Re: Done with this POS Avalanche truck!!!
« Reply #24 on: 08/22/10 06:03 PM »

Looking at your problems, I see some that look like regular service items for a truck with 100,000 miles.
Wiper motor, for that mileage, I wouldn't have a problem replacing.
Same with window motor.
Speedo guage cluster - I would expect that to last life of vehicle.
AC actuator, depends on dust and other items that have been sucked through system.

It appears that the most valid complaint is on the tranny - should definitely should last longer than yours have. One of two things appear to be happening to me, problems are since you have owned it. to me it could definitely be an owner problem, or whoever is rebuilding the tranny.
Chevy is not rebuilding the trannies, so to put the blame on them is ridiculous.
Whoever is doing the rebuild is the other possibiltiy.
I realize that you are defending your opinion of what I and many on here have found to be a great truck. but put the blame where it belongs.
It is either the owner or whoever is doing the tranny work, that is causing the majority of the trouble.
i agree with that
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