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Dummy Guide to get a better sound system ?

brownprider07

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Sep 14, 2013
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Hi i own a 2002 chevy av, Since i have had it i always wanted a better sound system , but as tech savy and common sensed as i can be the whole sub and amps and speakers confuses the poop out of me, what size subs do you think would be good ? i was thinking 12s ? i want bass, i dont want to drive down the road annoying people with it but once in a while when im alone i might want to turn it up  >:D  . i will be putting in a double din radio but maybe later on, i dont know what order i should go in , not the richest person so i was thinking of adding some things at a time , is there an order you think i should go in ? like radio first , then speakers, then subs and/or etc ?
 
You should contact customer service at Crutchfield, they are great to work with and can help build the system of your dreams and plan out the components, wire harnesses etc. that you would need to meet your needs.

http://www.crutchfield.com/
 
I was kinda like you wanting to upgrade but not wanting to spend a ton of cash.

First I upgraded from the stock head unit to a Pioneer double din navigation (AVIC Z3) and did the dbl din coversion in my 2002 running the stock speakers until I figured out what what and how I was going put together the rest. I then did some research and started collecting the components, most from eBay and saved a ton you just have to be patient and watch for deals.

Once I had all the pieces I installed the rest and now it sounds awesome. I'm not into the big thump so I went with a self powered sub under the back seat but it sounds great.

Pioneer Stage 4 component speaks front and rear... TS-C172PRS.
Pioneer amps... 2 x GM-D9500F bridged 200 watts a channel.
Sound Ordinance B-8PT sub

I was thinking of upgrading the amps with Pioneers latest (GM-D8604) they put out 300 watts a channel bridged but it sounds so good and clean that I don't want to mess it.                              
 

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Sorry to bump such an old thread, but...

I got a question. I'm a guitar player, I've got a 50 watt guitar amplifier running through a cabinet with four 12" speakers. The volume knob goes from 0-10, I rarely ever play the thing over 3 and it's loud as all get out. 30 minutes to an hour of playing will get the ears ringing the rest of the day.

So I'm confused. Randy, you've got 4 channels at 200 watts powering 4 component speakers & a sub? Sounds like overkill eh?

If I just want an upgrade over the factory sound in my '02, can I assume that the factory amp is putting out 20-35 watts/channel & shoot for 50 watts with a 100 watt sub?
 
Speakers all depends on the efficiency of the speaker.

I have a set of 10" subs that are rated for 300 watts of power. They absolutely pound at 300 watts. But they are efficient enough that I have also made them pound on as little as 25 watts...

But then I have also have used 6x9 speakers that were rated for 75 watts and lord help you if you only put 25-30 watts to them... You could barely hear them. You really needed to put 75 watts to them.

And if you are using very clean sound with no clipping of the amplifier you can generally push much more power through a speaker than if your amplifier is being over driven and you are constantly clipping the signal. A Clipped signal will overheat your amplifier, tears up your speakers and will make it much harder for you to listen to it for long periods of time. You are almost better off getting an amplifer that is overkill and dialing it back although MANY of the latest decent quality amps have anti clipping setups in them.

Also realize if your ears are ringing that is a sign of damage to your ears. Your ears have to have time to recover to prevent permanent hearing damage and this goes beyond just ringing in the ears. You likely already have permanent hearing damage if that happens to you more than once a week. For practicing you could easily get by with a simple 10" sub and leave the big power for performances where you need the power...  My guess is your speakers are wired to a lower ohm which then makes the amplifier put out much more than 50 watts but then it is also generally much dirtier sound and makes it more prone to hearing damage. I suspect going to a single smaller woofer will still be plenty loud and help protect your hearing. Do NOT play it loud enough to let your ears ring. You may also want to invest in some decent hearing protection for performances if you want to be able to hear when you are older...

Last DOT physical I had for the CDL I have was about 4 years ago and the tester told me I have perfect hearing which is highly unusual for someone almost 50... And I have had large sound systems in my cars so I am either lucky or have a good idea once in a while... ;)

Rodney
 
My system is mild compared to a lot out there. I'm not into big thump-in bass just good clean sound. I don't listen to it cranked up all the time just once in while when a favorite song in on.. If you want to put together a system like your describing and want decent sound out of it then the minimum you would need is:

1. Upgrade the factory receiver.
2. Bypass the factory amp.
3. Add self powered sub.
4. Upgrade factory speakers.

You can do number 1 and 2 first using the stock speakers (1&2 is how I did mine for awhile) and do the 3 and 4 later if dollars are a concern. Metra makes a double din kit for the 99-02'S now so you don't have to do any fabrication if you want to add a double din receiver. This will get you a decent sounding system without adding multiple amps and wiring.

Another thing that really helps a lot is sound/heat insulation, for $300-$400 and a days time you can pull your seats, carpet and door panels and add the insulation. This cuts down on road noise and has the same effect as adding a more powerful system and will make any almost any system sound better. Also a side benefit is your heat/cooling system will perform better also.



http://metraonline.com/part/DP-3002B
 
Randy said:
Another thing that really helps a lot is sound/heat insulation, for $300-$400 and a days time you can pull your seats, carpet and door panels and add the insulation. This cuts down on road noise and has the same effect as adding a more powerful system and will make any almost any system sound better. Also a side benefit is your heat/cooling system will perform better also.

I will add that this is mostly unnecessary in our vehicles. Since it is a Luxury SUV there already is substantial sound proofing. About the only thing you really can improve is the doors and even that is nominal. If you use Dynamat you only need to use a little bit. You do NOT need to totally cover a panel. It will work if you cover as little as 10% of the metal with a pad. It is to stop resonate frequencies.

However the door panel its self will reduce that substantially and the outer door skin is not very susceptible to resonate frequencies so it is very possible to install sound deadening and sound proofing in our vehicles and gain absolutely no difference... It is money best spent somewhere else...
 
redheadedrod said:
I will add that this is mostly unnecessary in our vehicles. Since it is a Luxury SUV there already is substantial sound proofing. About the only thing you really can improve is the doors and even that is nominal. If you use Dynamat you only need to use a little bit. You do NOT need to totally cover a panel. It will work if you cover as little as 10% of the metal with a pad. It is to stop resonate frequencies.

However the door panel its self will reduce that substantially and the outer door skin is not very susceptible to resonate frequencies so it is very possible to install sound deadening and sound proofing in our vehicles and gain absolutely no difference... It is money best spent somewhere else...


It's true you only need cover a small area to reduce resonate frequencies but they are only part of it. I would have to disagree since I installed the sound deadening materials in stages, the floor and outer door skins first which made a big difference then at a later date I did the inner door panels and that made even more of a difference. What I thought was air noise getting by the seals was just plain road noise coming through the holes in the door panel. Once those gaps were sealed my interior was allot quieter. I had the door panels off and drove around to listen were noises were coming and one of the biggest was from the water drains at the bottom of the door, pure road noise coming in behind the door panel with only the plastic rain guard in the way. That's when I added it to the inner panels and no more road/air noise coming through.

 
I know in my truck unless I have loud tires or other issues going on the road noise is very nominal. But then again I drive a POS cavalier as a gas miser. I swear you can hear a bird chirping when you drive by it in that thing. The ONLY time the slight road noise will be noticeable is if you play your stereo at really low levels.

Nothing wrong with using Dynamat in your doors to remove the "ringing" of the door panels but there are better materials that are cheaper if you want to remove excess exterior noise. Or sound proof...

But I will state again, the level of sound deadening and sound proofing in our trucks is going to be sufficient for most people. You are better off taking that money and buying better speakers or better amplifier. If money is no object then by all means... Put a couple inches of sound proofing in the floor, use some dynamat and sound proofing in the door panels and roof and fill all of the pillars with expanding foam. You will make a measurable difference but is it practical?

For me when I have my system finalized I would only worry about the doors if I happen to get some materials cheap. Really not worth the effort otherwise. But your mileage may vary. Now in my cavalier it would be a different story... If I want a good sounding stereo in that thing I need to spend at least $500 in sound deadening/proofing materials.

Rodney
 
Well people. I think today I think all my speakers have quit working on me. Unless it's the radio unit itself. But the tweeters seem to be working fine still. So money is an option sadly. What best speakers for the price and of course I will add more things because I like a good thump but not here I come thump. Oh what about the radio unit. So far I have looked at some pioneer touch screens. They seem expensive
 
It looks like your going to have to change out the whole system. The Pioneer touch screens are good units, that's what I have but there are many others out there but if you want a decent one you'll need to spend $700 -$1,000, most of them put out about 50 watts max and will power the speakers until you can add amps.

As far as speakers the pioneer TS D1720C are good, you don't want to cheap out or you will regret it, you can find these on ebay for $100 -$150 a pair. .

You want a little thump but don't need blow out the windows then a self powered under the back seat will put pretty good bass these can be had for around $200. Install kit, wiring, connectors etc. are going to cost another $500 plus depending on how far you want to get into it.

By the time your done your going to need to spend at least $1,500 -$2,000 for a minimum system and $2,500 -$3,500 for a mid range system.  I've seen guys spend over $1,000 just on insulation and sound deadening  which is overkill but if you want to do the floor and doors you could easily spend $500.
 
While our trucks are really solid and quiet, they have hardly any vibration dampnig or sound proofing in them. They do hold sound in really well. I just installed dapmner and mlv mat,in,my,backseat this weekend. And not,1 little peice of deadner was in it. Just carpet and padding. Anything you add to it is another layer noise has to go thru so,to me it,has to,help.
  im normally an alpine headunit guy but ,i have a ,$380 pioneer right now that i wouldnt trade for anything. In this case,i would get a 300-400$ pioneer headunit. Get a 5 channel,amp 100x4 + 1?3-500.  Get a component set,for the,front like a polk audio is,fine. Maybe a coax set for the,back but doesnt need to. And a 10in sub under the,bak,seat. Youll have a nice system that gets a little thump And wont zpend  but 1200ish
 
Would I find any good speakers and amps at best buy ? I'm going into Daytona today and I know there is a best buy there or should I be patient and order online
 
Many people here want to offer help but realistically you have to figure out what is reasonable to you..

Lets start first with what do you currently have? Since you say you have tweeters I am assuming you have a BOSE system? These have an amplifier hidden in the center console. 2002 is different than 2003 so I am not fully aware of the differences since I have a 2003.

Lets look at your options...
Aftermarket head unit... 
You need an adapter to sound out your chimes since they normally play through the radio and there is no ignition lead at the radio. You CAN get by without it but you will lose your chimes and you need to find an ignition source at the steering column.

As far as deck you have basically 3 options. (high power means the deck has built in amplifier)
1. You can get a high power deck which can run your speakers directly without subs...
2. You can get a high power deck with subwoofer rca's that can be used to run an amplifier that will run your subs.
3. Get a deck that has 3 sets of RCA's and no internal amplifier (I had an old Kenwood deck that was a high power deck that also had the 3 sets of RCA's but these are not common.)  You can then run the RCA's to different amplifiers and run your fronts. rears and subs.

As far as amplifiers go... All depends on how loud you want to go...  You can get a simple 5 channel amplifier that does 4x50 and 1 by 120 and have a reasonably loud system or whatever you want to do. (I have an amplifier like this I could use in my system. It makes life much easier since it has the subwoofer crossover built in and blocks the sub base from the other speakers.)

As far as speakers go you could go with a single 10" sub woofer under one of your back seats to a bed full of speakers... Personally for me if I go beyond a pair of 10" subs i am over powered. I can rattle the rafters with a pair of 10"s in a sealed box and walk quarters off the hood... I hit 129DB at a sound competition with my pair of 10" in a sealed box and 180 watts run at 2ohm. Just saying you don't HAVE to have big speakers to get loud. And actually a pair of sealed 10" subs can sound a whole lot clearer than a set of ported 12's... The larger the speaker the louder it will go but generally the less clear it gets compared to the same brand speaker of a different size. And a ported box is loud at a set frequency and lower at others where as a sealed box is the same across all the frequencies it plays.

In the end the MOST important thing is to make sure your speakers match up with what you are using to power them. The sub woofers I have are very efficient and very durable. I have powered them off 25 watt apiece and still rattled the trunk while they really prefer closer to 10x that power. Other subs might handle 500 watts through them but require 200 watts just to make them move. Just depends on what you are using.

So in essence you don't HAVE to spend $1500 to have a nice sounding system. Of course if you can afford it then all you can do at the same time will make life easier for you and cheaper in the long run but nothing requires you to do it all up front. If you are not very comfortable looking at stuff then take a friend with you and go ahead and check out local places that do car audio. Best buy is OK. You can also look around on a site such as crutchfield and get an idea what you can afford. Your best bet if you are scrapping for money is to spend a lot of time researching what is available and then decide what you want with some knowledge. A place like best buy can be good or bad depending on who is working there. You need to figure out a budget you can afford and figure out where you WANT to go and go from there.

We can certainly help you with what you decide but you have to figure out what you can afford and how far you can go.
 
Thank you so much readheadedrod, that actually helps a bit more. By chimes what exactly are you talking about ? Well I don't know honestly what to do. Because my speakers are going bad. One day they play another they don't. Usually it's just the tweeters going. So it's like if I get speakers won't have to get amp and head unit to be able to match up with the speakers and not burn anything out ? I can't understand why it's so difficult for me to grab this concept of. Amps, subs, coaxs, comments , wires I need , wires I don't need and etc
 
2002, no BOSE, no chime adapter needed..

If money is an issue go back to my second post and start there with the Head unit, bypass the factory amp and replace the speakers, you can pick up all those pieces for $500 for a cheap system (and sounding) and no additional wires needed unless you add a subwoofer or up to $1500 and have good sound system that you can expand on later if you want to add amps etc.

It's all what you are looking to achieve. If you can shop around and save on some of the pieces you can spend less.

If you to add on later then you will need a lot more wiring for patch cords to the amps, to the subs, speaker wires from the amps, 2Ga battery cable or bigger depending on the amp size, junction blocks, fuses, more miscellaneous wiring 
 
Randy, Bose or not has nothing to do with Chimes... The Chimes are done by the radio and have been for a while. They are done in the radio in my 2001 Cavalier which is a POS in comparison. (Base model with manual everything... )

The Chimes are the warning sounds you hear when your keys are in the ignition with door open etc. You will lose those without an adapter. If your vehicle has RAP (Retained Accessory Power) then the chimes are in your radio and you have to get an adapter to do it right. Without an adapter you lose those Chimes and will have to pull the ignition  from the steering column or from an accessible location in the fuse box. (There are some unused fuses you can tie into such as maybe the SEO fuse.)

If you DO pull ignition from the steering column make sure you fuse it close to where you connect to the original wire.

RAP is where your radio still plays after the key is turned off until you open the door or until 10 minutes passes. If your radio does this then yes you most certainly DO need an adapter to keep the Chimes and to use the RAP.

Some vehicles have external amplifiers. I am not sure if non-bose trucks do but I know bose equipped trucks do. If you have a center console instead of a seat then you likely have an amplifier.
The GM headunits seem to be designed to power the speakers directly but know if there is an external amplifier through the databus. If there is an external amplifier then the head unit will send out a low power signal to the amplifier where it is then modulated accordingly. So if you have an external amplifier you can bypass it and the head unit will power your speakers directly. You lose some volume, possibly gain some clarity because the OEM amplifier does a poor job, and lose any subwoofer if you have one. There are instructions on how to bypass the amplifier elsewhere.

There is no real recipe for how you HAVE to do this... Will all depend on how you want to do your system. A 2Ga wire is over kill if you only end up running a 200 watt amplifier. And totally unnecessary if you go right from the battery. For my 4x50 1x180 watt amplifier I ran 8ga wire to it directly from the battery. That is what it called for and it ran great. However it would not have hurt it to run a 6ga or 4ga wire to it. Just costs way more.

Wiring is like a pipe. You can't go too big but you can certainly go too small. Too small is bad... The bigger you go the more the wire costs however. If you go with a good quality 1/0 gauge wire for instance last time I checked pricing (years ago) it was like $8 a foot... Where an 8ga wire might be $.25 a foot.



 
redheadedrod... I have a 2002, so I know what I'm taking about, you don't. The chimes are not part of the radio, my chimes were not affected when I changed out my head unit and the factory amp is under the dash/glove box not the console as in later years. All of my door, key, headlight reminders all work just fine. 2002's do not have the databus, that's on 2003's and up. I been putting stereos, amps and speakers for more than forty years in every vehicle I've ever owned and do the research on every vehicle I work on..

My RAP still works and it's 20 min, and you don't need any type of adapter other than the wiring adapter that plugs into the factory plug so you don't have to cut you wiring harness for a 2002. Metra PN 70-1858 and an antenna adapter is all you need, about $20.00.

He wants to put in a dbl din head unit, Metra now makes a kit for that so little or no fabrication is required. Metra PN DB-3002B, $150-$175. I've never seen one installed so I can't speak for quality or looks.

If you want to use the factory speaker wires power the speakers from the head unit then you have to put a jumper on the factory amp (under the glove box) and bypass it. Then you can use the speaker wires in the door with adapters or cut and splice the connectors for the new speakers. Metra PN 70-2021, About $8.00-$12.00, many treads on it here. You have to re-pin one side but it's very easy to do

As far as the size of the power cable, since I don't know what size amp or amps or subwoofers he will get it's a mute point and will need to be determine when he designs his system now and for the future. If he is going to run one small amp then he may be able to get away with 8Ga. If he's ever going to add subwoofer then he should run a larger cable to plan for the future or dollars and time will be wasted doing it twice. You can pick up 25 ft. of 2Ga welding cable for under $40.00, if all the system needs is 4Ga or 6Ga then it's even cheaper. You can get 1/0 welding cable for $2.00 -$5.00 ft.

So quit confusing the guy and do your home work before you open your mouth.
 
You don't need to be rude about it Randy...

And realistically doesn't really matter if you have been installing for 30 years.. I can say the same thing... I also held a professional level installer license from Metra after attending their school,  but again, doesn't mean a thing for something like this. I have build competition systems and have been involved with various other systems so you really don't need to talk to me that way or any member for that matter.

So even if the information I had about RAP and chime in THIS case were inaccurate the rest of the information I gave was on the money.
This page : http://www.crutchfield.com/p_120701858/Metra-70-1858-Receiver-Wiring-Harness.html?tp=2977
Shows the harness being pretty straight forward and they didn't mention needing any special adapter.. So yea I was wrong even though I have been told in the past to expect to need a special adapter if your radio supports RAP and EVERY GM vehicle I have come into contact to this point with RAP HAS required an adapter going back to 1998. So I am rather shocked to find out the 2002 Avalanche wouldn't need such an adapter.

So just goes to show GM is as consistent with radios as they are elsewhere...


 
Rodney you may want to leave this one alone, I don't think you are familiar with 1999-2002 GM trucks..

So before I get a nasty PM from the powers here I'm gone.
 
Woah people please no arguing. I really appreciate all the help I am getting. I understand there a little more explain you do because I can't grasp it. I really do thank you. But I think I should start slow. So I'll start with the head unit. Yes I want a double din and I do prefer touch. What have you guys had and liked. Although I would love to spend 700 or 1000 on one I don't. In the future I will want to install a back up cam. I am willing to by used , refurbished , just to get a good one and hope it's in good condition. My range is pretty much no more than 400. So what things should I order or buy the same time when I buy the HU. Oh on a side note. I saw these kicker brand speakers at best buy for 55 , bad brand ? I think they were coaxials.
 
Sorry Rodney.. But you come across that way also in your posts, try to put it a different way so you don't offend people.

Now back to brownprider07... You can probably find a DD touch screen on ebay for around that but your going to have look. There's some of the Pioneer's AVIC 5000NEX (last years model) for $400-$500 and the 5100NEX's there for $500-$600, they have back up camera input. You may be able to find a Alpine or other for less, maybe a used one might come up. The install pieces for a 2002 for a DD is going to cost close $200 so be aware of that.

The kicker speakers may be okay, best thing is to look up the model number and try to find some reviews...
 
I installed a Kenwood DD 419 and replaced my crappy Bose door speakers with some good Kenwoods and kept my Bose sub in place. The Bose sub sounds pretty good but I hated the Bose door speakers. Cheap paper speakers. I love the sound of mine now.
 
when choosing a headunit. You want to pick,something with,features that you will use. You only want toucscreen and back up cam?  there is no reason you need a 700$ radio 3-400 tops. I spent $380 and mine,has 7 band eq. 4v preouts usb port sd slot sub control plays movies. could have,gotten a back up cam and blu tooth adapter but i,dont,want them.  
Is love to,know what he nex line offers,over their regular line ip that makes em worth another $300+ and btw mine is a pioneer that i bought 4yrs ago
 
Found a pioneer app radio 3 for 538 at best buy and an alpine with Apple car play that's 599. That alpine is pretty nice. But they also had two pioneer app radio 3s that were out of box for 515. I'm willing to buy one of those two. There nice I think. So that and then amp bypass adapter , antenna adapter , and dash kit from metra ? Correct ?

P.s. A college kid also in need of a better laptop hah. Mine at this point needs an upgrade but that can wait. That's why I'm tight on money if you guys are wondering. Plus I only work part time.
 
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