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Tesla or Hybrid AV...Why Not...

Tesla or Hybrid AV

  • Hybrid AV

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • Tesla Type AV

    Votes: 4 57.1%

  • Total voters
    7

bludrgn2

Full Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
359
Location
USA/Asia
I wish they would make a EV AV...That would be so cool, street version for daily driver. I always research and watch videos on this conversion with other vehicles. Tesla Avalanche, wooohooo!... :B:
 
Huh you didn't have option of "No way" on your survey.  >:D

Why it may be nice to be more economical with an AV I for one didn't buy it for gas economy, I got it for room and comfort while being versatile for many daily chores.

I don't want to be some company's test dummy for new technology. I know they sell the EV as good for the environment to make many people feel good about owning a vehicle but I have seen several articles that when you look at the environmental impact in battery manufacturing and disposal the so-called greener vehicles are actually worse on the environment during a vehicle's lifetime compared to a conventional vehicle. You also may save money at the gas pumps but what will be the replacement cost for those large battery packs? My guess it will lead to the "throw away car" where when the battery pack wears out it becomes cheaper to get rid of car and get another one. I also know charging stations can be few and far between and not sure I would want to be limited to 50 mile radius or something similar.
I would envision to make an EV AV they would have to trim the weight/size of it since 6,000 lbs is a lot to expect to move at decent speeds with just electric. Speaking for some large people or large families that smaller vehicle will not fit well in their life.
 
Oh, I wasn't trying to create this poll in order to save on the environment...I was thinking on saving money on my pocket book...I think the tesla's are very cool and love them. The warranty is ten years on the batteries and prices on the lithium batt are coming down in price. A friend has a hybrid Ford small suv and not liking it so much. Tesla seems to have their vehicles running strong and smooth. I looked at some at a mall a couple of years ago. Price is high but car is sweet.
 
Rather a Diesel version
 
I'd be all for an electric Avy.  Not due to environmental or economic concerns, but for the performance.  Most people's view of electrics is that they are best suited to save on costs or the environment, but this is not true if you approach the subject from a performance perspective.  Unlike gas engines, electric motors do not require rpms to develop torque.  100% of an electric motor's torque is available as soon as the drive shaft starts turning.

I was first introduced to running brushless electric motors when I decided to convert one of my nitro remote control cars to electric.  Once I got the conversion done, the biggest problem I had was not blowing the tires off of the wheels.  With lithium based batteries, the run times were insane too.  The only reason that I haven't gone to a larger scale with it, was due to battery technology not having caught up the electronics.  Battery tech has come a long way since then and this post makes me think that the cover bed leaves lots of options for battery storage.

There are however, still other "kinks" that need to be worked out in terms of an Avy conversion.  For example, powering the brakes and power steering, not to mention the heating and air conditioning.
 
The AV's bed cover panels would be ideal converted to solar cells. My son's 1998 Audi has a solar panel built into the sunroof, which operates the interior fans in reverse when parked in the heat. Works a treat to keep the interior from turning into an oven in the summertime, and no draw on the battery.
No doubt technology has advanced enough since then, enabling good use to be made of the AV's bed panels as a power/recharge source.
 
A fully electric Avalanche or and full size truck for that mater would not be very practical since the weight (6,000 lbs) would make it a short range vehicle only. Even with removing the gas motor/trans combo, the electric motor and batteries would increase the weight.

And as far as saving money, my friend has a Tesla and there is a cost to putting in a charging station at your house $2,500 -$5,000 depending on your layout and size charger you install (40amp or 80amp). His electric bill jumped $300-$500 a month depending on if he plugs it in during the day or night.

Nice car though, acceleration is awesome 0-60 under 3 seconds..
 
I understand about the performance of electric vehicles, many positive reviews about Harley Davidson's Livewire bike project. Hard to beat it's performance but still very short range and long recharge times for batteries. Battery room could be in the bed of the EV AV but at what sacrifice? Loss of space and usage as a truck?
The idea about bed panels as solar cells would need some compromise since it would make them heavy, brittle, and more expensive. All that could lead to complications in removing and storing the panels as well as making them more desirable as theft items for criminals. Remember one of the best features of the AV is it's quick and easy conversion to various configurations so do we really want to make it harder to convert? Maybe using the roof as solar panels could work, except for those who like roof racks and use them.
One thing to consider is everything breaks down sooner or later (even Rolls-Royce has repair shops) the question is how much would you be inconvenienced if the vehicle breaks down? I would hate to have a Hybrid or EV and need repairs, the nearest mechanic could be hundreds of miles away and parts could take days to get shipped in to you. Even something like running out of energy, AAA can't bring you a charging station, maybe they could tow you to one and you could wait several hours for a charge to get home or to work? I am old school and would just rather have someone bring me a can of gas or tow me to a local repair shop where any make of mechanic could work on my vehicle not just a brand certified mechanic.
Never say never though, who knows one day when EV stations are a plentiful as today's repair shops, dealerships,auto part stores, and gas stations I could be humming along in my 2045 EV AV?  >:D :B:
 
Vaeagleav, therein lies the problems with the limitations of an electric vehicle and is likely the reason that people have the perception that they do of electric vehicles.  To extend the run time, they have to limit the amount of current that the motor can draw at WOT during acceleration.

A decade or so ago, the limitation of charging a battery for an EV was the time it took to charge the battery.  I don't think that applies so much any longer on the battery side.  What I mean is that lithium based cells can now be charged at a rate of 1C per hour.  "C" being the capacity of the battery.  I've seen cells take can take up to 3C.  Essentially, what that means is that the battery will charge in an hour or less, IF you can provide the current from the charging system.

I really don't know what size battery you'd need to push an electric system in an Avy EV.  I would imagine that ideally, it would be based on a 110, or even better, a 220 volt system to help keep current draw down.  I really wish I was stronger in the math department.

Ideally, I'd like an Avy with the system restricted to match the power of an 8.0l.  As for the batteries, I'd imagine that someone creative could come up with a place to put them in a place that wouldn't compromise the utility of an Avy.  Since you're gonna be getting rid of the big bulky engine and transmission, I think there would be room, although it's gonna require some out of the box thinking.

As for needing a mechanic, I don't know.  I'd guess that the two most common problems are going to be either a dead battery or a fried controller.  There really isn't much to break.
 
Vaeagleav said:
be humming along in my 2045 EV AV?  >:D :B:
How about we shoot sooner, 2020...False floor in bed of trunk to store batteries ( only need very few for this one) and solar paint any color but you will see the solar panels in the paint...The vehicle charges it's batteries and powers itself as the engine as it runs so no need for any stations, not for this one. Two models (big electric brush-less motor and smaller one) one for everyday small jobs and other for lots of work. As you said never say never. We just need the public to push this through. It's not like we already have the technology kept secret on many different products you only dream t of 20 years ago....
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-brushless-motors
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/58236/why-does-a-tesla-car-use-an-ac-motor-instead-of-a-dc-one
 

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Battery placement would not really be an issue, there would be plenty of room under the bed without fuel tanks, exhaust and transmission.. IMO, range would be the biggest issue..

Technology is getting better, Tesla's "Supercharging" stations can give almost a full charge in about 30 minutes and the newer model cars will be able to drive up over a battery changing station and a fully automated system will swap out the battery pack in 90 seconds. This could be the future of the electric vehicle, instead of "gas stations" you would pull into "battery stations".

But IMO your just trading one pollutant for another, if this becomes the norm out there the pollution created by the mining, transportation, refining and disposal of the lead battery in it's life cycle has been proven to have a bigger carbon foot print than a car getting 30mpg having a 10 year life cycle.

But like some have said, who knows what future technology will bring...
 
All Batteries can be recycled and do not have to be wasted into the environment...We have the ability and it is being done already. Interstate does this and sells them out of warehouses.
It's like believing we have a water shortage and there is a whole ocean of water. My buddy has a 60 foot boat and has a water machine that filters all the salt out and does so many gallons an hour. These water machines have been around for over 20 years...I feel we need to take the power and control away from these oil companies (War, Government, etc, etc) and do whats best for us...It's happening already, waiting to see what the Oil companies come up with next to throw a wrench into this. Read oil investors are selling and investing in Green. Changes are Eminent...
 
Yes most batteries are recycled.. The pollution and health risks are from the mining, transportation and refining are the problem. There's no free ride with electric vehicles as some believe, just like with oil there are environmental issues..


http://worstpolluted.org/projects_reports/display/84
 
The future of stored energy does not lie in lead batteries so that's a non issue, I believe. If i built an EV, I'd use lithium cells. Probably some base on a lithium manganese chemistry. These cells have a high storage density, charge quickly and don't make for a big fireworks show when the casing is pierced. I've seen what happens when lithium polymer cell casings are pierced. That's a fire you can't put out.
 
Where do you think the materials come from, thin air.

The iron, cobalt, nickle, Lithium, Carbon etc. that they are made of all come from mining not to mention the extra copper the goes into the motor and battery cables.. Like I said there's no free ride and there are still environmental issues.
 
Got It...But I still would make that trade instead of oil. I mean if you want to go there about being harmful health wise, more people have been killed or died do to oil wars.  China is mining more and more coal and will continue. That is not our call. They also will be the ones who will continue to manufacture all these batteries. They have the worst quality of air there. Thanks for the article, very informative. And yes there is lots we can get out of the air... :B:
Randy said:
Where do you think the materials come from, thin air.

The iron, cobalt, nickle, Lithium, Carbon etc. that they are made of all come from mining not to mention the extra copper the goes into the motor and battery cables.. Like I said there's no free ride and there are still environmental issues.
 
LOL...

I agree, never said we weren't moving in the right direction. We can reduce our dependency on oil but it will be a long time before we have something that truly doesn't harm the planet. There's always a trade off..

If everyone owned a electric vehicle and plugged them in every night the power plants would all have to power up to meet the demand and depending on the type of generation would increase pollution. Hopefully it would be less so it's a win.

But now that there's less demand for oil and the oil company's are making less they raise the price and transportation cost go up for everything that gets shipped (that's everything) so we pay for it elsewhere. No simple fix unfortunately.

We are getting there..
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVXWGBgYj3M BUS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxnZ-L-7edc  HHR
 
I would like to see something more like the tech used for the chevy volt.  Pure electric for the short trips around town but having a gas or diesel motor to charge the batteries during longer trips.  Battery or solar technology just isnt there yet to fully replace fuel burning engines but until then the "volt" style electric is a good alternative.
 
Scobay said:
I would like to see something more like the tech used for the chevy volt.  Pure electric for the short trips around town but having a gas or diesel motor to charge the batteries during longer trips.  Battery or solar technology just isnt there yet to fully replace fuel burning engines but until then the "volt" style electric is a good alternative.
The Chevy Volt is not bad. The technology is there ...but they are slowly giving us a little at a time...I watched this, what you think about this diesel MB over 1000 miles on one tank...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EITiqurE8dc
And the NEW BMW i3 has that electric and gas you were speaking about to a degree...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrWL0d1img
And this video is the simple way to explain how it all works...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFWEc7Ytq44
 
On the topic of charging stations for EVs, They're popping up all over the place around here.

Minneapolis has it fair share of problems but one of the things I like about it is that they're always looking for alternatives to help save their environment and let people use alternative means of transportation. I must admit I use but one of the services they offer as I prefer my own vehicles, but they do have a lot of ride sharing services with vehicles parked on almost every block, bicycle rental stalls located strategically all around the city and even a 2 lane section of highway that is free for HOV vehicles and buses to get in and out of the city (This I use daily for my commute to work as my better half and I have similar work schedules). Heck this is the only city I've been to that buses have the right of way and can legally drive on the shoulder of the road when there is traffic to ensure that the folks who take the bus get to where they're going. No wonder its ranked number 1 on the list of biking cities in the U.S. and number 18 in the world.

As for EV charging stations, we now have 2 at work in EV only parking stalls and their are more to come. There are also free rapid charging stations near the public library, in various locations around the University, and at some of the dealerships (BMW, Tesla) near the city limits just to name a few.

Heck I drove up to Subway to get a sandwich the other day and the Goodwill store next door has a charging station in the parking lot. Pretty soon EV stations will be very easy to find.

 
Seems like the running gear from a hybrid Tahoe would fit in an Avalanche fine. 6.0l, battery pack, transmission, electric motor, etc. The hybrid Tahoe has a higher tow rating than the regular Tahoe. Gets 20+ mpg. Not a hell of a big return on what I'm sure would be a huge investment.

2008-chevy-tahoe-hybrid_1.jpg


I don't understand why a 1/2 ton diesel that can haul 10k lbs or get 25 mpg isn't available from one of the big 3. But you can bet it'll be in the pickup or van long before it'll show up in a specialty SUV.
 
New building codes are starting to require charging stations or at least the raceways to support future installation of charging stations. So they are going to be popping all over the place.

Hopefully they will get the cost down on recycling Lithium batteries. Right now they are not being recycled due to the cost and the new materials being so much cheaper.
 
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