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Author Topic: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?  (Read 16133 times)

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PromptCritical

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #25 on: 10/13/15 11:36 AM »

Watch the test videos.. If you still believe the same, then we will have to agree to disagree..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_flow_sensor#Coldwire_sensor

I didn't say damage.  These sensors work on the principle of heat transfer.  Airflow cools the wire.  You get anything on that wire in there, and you affect the heat transfer.  The ECU has a range of expected values for airflow for error checking.  If the wire heats up too much because it has oil on it impeding heat transfer, it will read a low airflow value and the car will throw a code indicating that the sensor *might* be faulty.  If this is the case, clean it and you're GTG.

Like 09ChevyAv above said he had happen.

Theoretically, you could get enough crap built up that the senor will no longer read correctly, but I was just reading that sensors also sometimes have a "burnoff" function that heats it up to burn off contaminants after the car is shut off.  Dunno if ours have that.
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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #26 on: 10/13/15 11:44 AM »

I know how they work..

Like I said... Watch the test videos.. If you still believe the same, then we will have to agree to disagree..
« Last Edit: 10/13/15 11:46 AM by Randy »
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PromptCritical

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #27 on: 10/13/15 12:11 PM »

So what they're really saying is that the OIL will not affect the performance of the MAF sensor in the slightest, even temporarily, regardless of how much you blast in there? 

:bsflag:
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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #28 on: 10/13/15 01:27 PM »

That's not what I heard.

They said after submerging  the MAS in the K&N oil the readings were "awkward" for a time until the airflow pulled the oil off the wire and the readings returned to normal. Didn't damage the MAS, didn't keep giving erratic readings, returned to normal after a few cycles and that's after submerging it in oil not a tiny bit, not a drop, but submerging it. Also what about the constant oil mist with no change in the readings.

Obviously oil can cause a problem but the oil that could come off the filter after over oiling is minimal if any. They over oiled a filter and ran air across it for 3 days and zero oil came off of it. So if any did come all it would take is to clean it and you would be back on the road.

My original MAS was throwing coeds P0101 and the dealer replaced it under warranty and the code came back they said there must be something else wrong, cats, vacuum leak, wiring etc.. I then put a Granitelly MAS on it and still had the codes, I R&R the intake looking for a vacuum leak no change, checked voltages at the connectors and couldn't find a problem kept throwing the Po101.. Then I was getting new tires mounted and was talking to one of the mechanics seeing if he had any ideas. So after the tire were mounted he hooked up his Tech 2 and we went for a ride, he had me accelerate part throttle, full throttle up and down a hill a few times and he said it was definitely the MAS was bad and that it would not load more than 70 percent.

So I picked up a new MAS at the auto parts and it still the same P0101, WTF. Went back to him and he said he would bet on it the new one must be defective.. Since it was a off brand I was sceptical but I took it back and they gave me my money back and I ordered a new ACDelco/Delphi from Rock Auto, put that on and it ran great, full power now..

So long story but I went through 5 MAS before I found one that worked.. I had a paper filter on for the first two and the K&N for the rest 200,000 plus miles. They go bad all by themselves..
« Last Edit: 01/20/16 08:06 AM by Randy »
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PromptCritical

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #29 on: 10/13/15 01:52 PM »

So, to sum up:

Little, if any oil comes off the filter, even if severely over-oiled.
Large quantities of oil in the MAF will cause temporary erratic readings until the oil blows off.  What's left won't do anything.
There is no evidence that MAF sensors can be damaged by K&N oil.
MAF sensors are prone to failure on their own, and apparently even out of the box.

"Relax Jonesy, you sold me."

Honestly, I've never really believed that these filters are destructive.  I've always worried about over-oiling screwing up the MAF, so I've just been careful to only oil the outside and not overdo it (My Tahoe has an AirRaid that I service with K&N).  Apparently that's not an issue either.

I sometimes have a knee-jerk reaction to sensationalist claims involving "always" or "never", but this looks like they got a lot of data to back it up.  Besides, to deny warranty, the dealer has to basically prove your mod caused the failure.  Probably in their interests to just give you a damn MAF.

 :thumbsup:
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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #30 on: 10/13/15 02:58 PM »

 :thumbsup:

Glad to pull back from the dark side..

A lot of people think their snake oil and chose not to use them and that's their choice but the facts are the facts..

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oih82w8

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #31 on: 11/09/15 12:35 PM »

From my experience with K&N Air Filters, they cost twice as much as a paper filter and last a lot longer!  So it pays for itself after two or three regular filter changes (plus the recharge kit, another $12.99).  From my understanding with a visual aide (The K&N Air Filter Airflow Demonstrator) that we used to have at the car parts store, it showed the flow rate of similar sized air filters, K&N and paper, and a ping pong ball.

http://www.knfilters.com/video/KN_Airflow_Dem.htm

There are other "oil wetted" air filters; Air Raid, Spectre, AEM, etc...which will provided similar results as K&N.
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tralme98

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #32 on: 01/20/16 07:00 AM »

From what I understand (which isn't much  :P) I would use the K&N for the dust aspect. Your sensors are vulnerable to dust and the oily compound of the filter material will help prolong the life of your sensors. 2 cents
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enoniam

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #33 on: 01/20/16 07:17 AM »

I've used two different K&Ns on my truck - one a drop-in into the stock airbox which I am currently running, the other a squat-ish cone for the ram air setup I ran before going supercharged.  Supercharged setup used the stock airbox. 

I've probably got close to 200K miles on that drop-in filter.  Usually just clean it in the spring.  They filter a bit better when a bit dirty and I like the extra filtration during the winter salted streets months.  With the boost-vacuum gauge I installed when installing the supercharger I can tell that I'm still getting good airflow through the filter in the truck's current normally aspirated setup.  With the cold air temps the engine isn't needing as much help as during the summer months as well.
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Alwaysnosing

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #34 on: 09/27/16 02:39 PM »

I've been running an AEM dry performance panel (drop in filter) for the past 12months, I like its no frills no maintenance style and it was a good upgrade over the standard filter. I then added the Raid Intake hose and changed my tune to the Intune Performance 87 octane. The intake sound was good and quite frankly I didn't and still don't for the most part care about the MPG. I was happy...

I got a screaming deal for an almost new K&N from a friend of mine who had it installed for about 2 months and then traded his truck, got it for the princely sum of $15! Cleaned it thoroughly, re-oiled it and put it in. There is a big difference between the AEM dry filter and the K&N with regards to air flow, it is noticeable across the rev range and especially in the upper echelons. I know there is some debate with regards to the oil on the K&N but I have used them on numerous vehicles and haven't fallen foul of the dreaded contamination of the MAF sensor, not to say it doesn't happen but i haven't experience it as of yet.
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redheadedrod

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #35 on: 09/27/16 07:16 PM »

Hmm, I will just say my piece and move on...

I use K&N filters on my car but I also noticed if I over oiled it the MAF would cause codes...

The test videos you show are deceiving.

We use similar filters on some equipment at work and you can DEFINITELY see the oil coming off the air filters collecting on stuff after the filter...

With a CLEAN oil impregnated K&N filter you can most certainly have oil pass through but it is not something that you can see in a couple days... In my car it didn't happen until the third cleaning. The oil WILL come off as a vapor and WILL collect on things behind it. But this happens over time. The issue isn't so much the oil as the dust and dirt a new filter lets through. I have seen video demonstrations in the past that show dust getting through a clean K&N filter that doesn't go through a paper filter, nor a dirty K&N filter. The pores in the filters are more open. You are depending on the oil to attach to the dirt and it does...

The issue is that the oil is made to stick to dirt so if it DOES get onto other components such as your MAF sensor wire it will collect dust from a clean filter. So you are more likely to see the issue after you have cleaned the filter a few times.

I use them because they save money more than anything else. I have yet to see any proof that they help performance in any way. GM does a pretty good job in most of the vehicles getting the air into the vehicle. No way does it boost gas mileage or make throttle response faster. Would only do so if the intake was restricted by the air filter which is not the case.

But if you go into it realizing that over oiling can and WILL coat the MAF wiring and realize the easiest way to take care of that is to spray your maf with MAF cleaner when you clean the filter you should be good and never have an issue.  You could also wait to clean the MAF for a couple weeks after the filter if you are worried about the oil coating the MAF. After that point any excess oil should have already pretty much passed through.

As I said, I call BS on those test videos, they are deceiving... I have seen oil impregnanted filters pass oil at work as well as on my own vehicles but it is easy to maintain.

And depending on what type of environment you drive in and how well you maintain your filter you may never see an issue.
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EXT4ME

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #36 on: 09/28/16 04:33 AM »

In my case, I had grown tired of cleaning my K&N filters in previous vehicles, so when I discovered my EXT had a K&N installed when I bought it, one of the first things I did was to toss it in the trash and begin installing quality paper filters at regular intervals.

I never had any "problems" using a K & N filter, but I just found it easier to toss in a fresh quality paper filter every now and then and be done with it.

When I pick up my oil and filter at the parts store for a change, I pick up a new air filter and change it at every other oil change or so.

I still use a K & N in my 1993 Ford Explorer, but that truck only gets around 700 miles a year put on it.

That will most definitely be the last air filter that truck ever gets.

 :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: 09/29/16 03:57 AM by EXT4ME »
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Randy

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #37 on: 09/28/16 06:50 PM »

Totally disagree.. Never had  a problem with K&N's, to each his own, if you don't like then don't use them..
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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #38 on: 09/28/16 09:23 PM »

Totally disagree.. Never had  a problem with K&N's, to each his own, if you don't like then don't use them..

like he said I gave mine away.   :9: 
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JV

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #39 on: 09/28/16 09:57 PM »

Totally disagree.. Never had  a problem with K&N's, to each his own, if you don't like then don't use them..

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redheadedrod

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #40 on: 09/29/16 09:37 AM »

Like I said, nothing major, didn't help anything but cleaning the MAF was easy to do so I don't consider it an issue and I still run the K&N on my caprice. It does have Ram Air Intake... And even with that Ram Air intake it is very difficult to see ANY difference in air through the engine than with paper filter and factory air box. I could log a VERY slight increase at speeds over 50 mph with the Ram Air Intake... VERY as in could measure it but certainly didn't increase mileage or performance measurably.

Just be aware if you over oil them you MAY get the maf wire coated and if you do just clean it. Not really an issue. I got like 6 paper air filters with my truck so I don't expect to be going to a K&N filter any time soon. Got them when someone was cleaning out their garage. Otherwise I would consider getting one for my truck because they do work and I don't drive in highly dusty areas.

Rodney
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LanachenMo

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Re: Does A Drop In K&N Filter Make Any Difference?
« Reply #41 on: 11/28/17 04:33 PM »

We ALL know everyone has their own experiences with their OWN trucks. Now that being said the K&N is still a good filter if  used correctly. Yes you need to properly clean and re-oil and let it dry and shake off any excess from the cotton fibers. Now if I  had better  flowing exhaust system and a tuner that little 5.3 liter would feel more like my old 350 ci engine I  had on  my 1998 Z71. Just saying the K&N either drop in or the  whole air delivery system is  a great easy to do addition to their trucks.
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