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Author Topic: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped  (Read 71050 times)

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ralphm

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Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« on: 01/05/05 06:16 PM »

OK guys any ideas? 2002 2500 with 26,000 miles. Has stalled 4 times in last several days. Engine cranks ok, let it sit awhile and it restarts. Dealer has had it 3 days and it happened to him also. He reads no codes,  asked him about "crankshaft position sensor" and he says it checks ok even when engine won't start. He has been in contact with GM Tech Center but still no answers. HELP! :E: :8:
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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #1 on: 01/05/05 06:26 PM »

Has a fuel pressure test been run yet?

While it could be other things as well...it sounds very similar to loss of fuel pressure...
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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #2 on: 01/05/05 06:34 PM »

Weird that it's not storing codes. Starving / lean fuel should set a couple of P-codes.

Plugged up cats? Strange @ 26K...

Bad / contaminated fuel?

Aftermarket alarm engine kill?
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jt2500

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #3 on: 01/05/05 07:03 PM »

I will put a 100 dollars on it right now, that you have a bad crank position sensor.  I had the same problem about 5 months ago, do a search and you will find my posts.  My 02 2500 would stall out of nowhere, over and over again.  The dealer replaced the fuel pump, replaced the throtel  body, and fuel filter, the truck even stalled on the way out the door after the throtel body!  all that until I sugested for them to replace the crank sensor (due to research done on this site) and that was the fix. 
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jt2500

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #4 on: 01/05/05 07:06 PM »

I have sugestged this already to at least 2 other 2500 owners and was correct.  From what I read on this site, from an old post, its a common problem.  Hope this helps.  good luck
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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #5 on: 01/05/05 07:16 PM »

Or this?

Document ID# 1565073
2002 Chevrolet Avalanche
   
99-03 GEN III Engine Misfire at Idle Cold and Possible P0171 and/or P0174 -kw 4.8 5.3 6.0 LR4 LM4 LM7 LQ4 crack air hesitate intermittent internal intake leak lean miss power rough surge vacuum P0300 #PIP3232 - (Nov 15, 2004)

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom described in the PI.
Condition/Concern:

99 through 03 GEN III truck engines may experience any of the following:

   1. A cold rough idle that diminishes as the engine warms up.
   2. Possible DTCs P0171, P0174, or P0300.
   3. Random misfires at idle.

Recommendation/Instructions:

Check for leaking intake manifold seals around the intake ports. The intake gasket seals may be leaking around the intake ports, causing a lean condition. Many times they will leak around the bottom side of the port, making it a challenge to detect the vacuum leak. The technician may also note lower than normal MAF readings if the seals are leaking around the ports. If leaking intake gasket seals are found, they should be replaced. The intake plenum should also be checked for warpage that may cause an uneven clamping pressure of the seal. If the plenum is found to be warped, it will need to be replaced with new seals. Intake Manifold Cylinder Head Deck Flatness specifications are located in SI.

Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance.

Models:

(99 00 01 02 03 C1 C2 C3 K1 K2 K3 LR4 LM4 LM7 LQ4 LQ9 Chevrolet Silverado Tahoe Suburban Avalanche Express Trailblazer ) and (99 00 01 02 03 C1 C2 C3 K1 K2 K3 LR4 LM4 LM7 LQ4 LQ9 GMC Sierra Savana Yukon Denalli Envoy) and (02 03 K6 K7 K8 Cadillac Escalade) and (03 Hummer N2)
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OviedoAv

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #6 on: 01/05/05 07:18 PM »

Trust me on this one.....It is your Crank Shaft Position Sensor.............
It has been proven over ,and over here, on the '02 2500's, that is what your problem is.
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sperry

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #7 on: 01/05/05 07:22 PM »

`Still looking for that CPS bulletin!

Meanwhile,  another:

Document ID# 1416911
2002 Chevrolet Avalanche
   
Engine Misfire due to Injector Fretting Corrosion - kw 2.2 3.1 3.4 3.8 4.2 4.3 4.8 5.3 6.0 8.1 adaptor chuggle fuel hard idle lamp light L36 L1 L18 L61 LA1 LG8 LL8 LU3 LR4 LM7 LQ9 LQ4 LN2 MIL misfire #PI01353A - (Dec 19, 2003)

When servicing the vehicle with the VIN you entered, the following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms.

Condition/Concern:

This is a supplement to bulletin 03-06-04-030 for driveability symptoms of long or hard starts, chuggle, rough idle and light or intermittent misfire. The malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) may also illuminate.

Recommendation/Instructions:

Analysis of returned Multec II injectors indicate that terminal fretting corrosion may also be responsible for the conditions described in this bulletin. Fretting corrosion (microscopic in nature) is nearly impossible to detect in the field. Symptoms of fretting corrosion may be a miss that is corrected after the injectors have been disconnected and then reconnected cleaning the terminals in the process. The most effective method to correct this condtion per field comments is to remove the connector and apply/inject dielectric grease, P/N 12377900 (in Canada, P/N 10953529) to the female terminal. Be sure to cover both cavities and reconnect the injector. Please refer to bulletin 03-06-04-030 and/or June 2003 TechLink for further information.

Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance. This diagnostic approach was developed for the vehicle with the VIN you entered and should not be automatically be used for other vehicles with similar symptoms.

Models:

(00, 01, 02, 03 Buick Century, LeSabre, Park Avenue, Regal) and (02, 03 Buick Rendezvous) and (02, 03 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade EXT) and (03 Cadillac Escalade ESV) and (00 Chevrolet S-10) and (00, 01, 02 Chevrolet Camaro, Lumina) and (00, 01, 02, 03, 04 Chevrolet Cavalier, Impala, Malibu, Monte Carlo, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, Venture) and (01, 02, 03, 04 Chevrolet Express) and (02, 03, 04 Chevrolet Astro, Avalanche, Trailblazer) and (03 Chevrolet Blazer, S-10, Trailblazer EXT) and (00 GMC Sonoma) and (00, 01, 02, 03, 04 GMC Sierra, Yukon, Yukon XL) and (01, 02, 03, 04 GMC Denali, Denali XL, Savana) and ( 02, 03, 04 GMC Envoy, Safari) and ( 03, 04 GMC Envoy XL, Jimmy, Sonoma) and ( 00, 01, 02, 03, 04 Oldsmobile Alero, Silhouette) and (02, 03, 04 Oldsmobile Bravada) and (00, 01 Pontiac Transport) and (00, 01, 02 Pontiac Firebird) and (00, 01, 02, 03, 04 Pontiac Bonneville, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Sunfire) and (01, 02, 03, 04 Pontiac Aztek) and (02, 03, 04 Pontiac Montana) and (03, 04 HUMMER H2) with 2.2L, 3.1L, 3.4L, 3.8L, 4.2L, 4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, or 8.1L Engine (VINs F, 4, J, E, K, S, X,V, T, N, U, G - RPOs L61, LN2, LG8, LA1, L36, LL8, LU3, LR4, LM7, LQ9, LQ4, L18) and Multec II Fuel Injectors)
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jt2500

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #8 on: 01/05/05 07:24 PM »

Guys,

Im telling you, my dealer had no idea about this, and replaced everything on my truck and it kept stalling.  This all happend to me around 27K miles 4-5 months ago. 
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OviedoAv

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #9 on: 01/05/05 07:29 PM »

Seems like I am one of the few '02 2500's that hasn't had this problem. I will count my blessing though, and if it does it, I know exactly what I will have replaced.
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sperry

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #10 on: 01/05/05 07:38 PM »

Found it!, but not a TSB...

A damaged crankshaft reluctor wheel

A damaged crankshaft reluctor wheel can result in different symptoms depending on the severity and location of the damage.

    * Systems with electronic communications, DIS or coil per cylinder, and SEVERE reluctor ring damage may exhibit periodic loss of crankshaft position, stop delivering a signal, and then re-sync the crankshaft position.
    * Systems with electronic communication, DIS or coil per cylinder, and SLIGHT reluctor ring damage may exhibit no loss of crankshaft position and no misfire may occur. However, a P0300 DTC may be set.
    * Systems with mechanical communications, high voltage switch, and SEVERE reluctor ring damage may cause additional pulses and effect fuel and spark delivery to the point of generating a P0300 DTC or P0336.
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ralphm

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #11 on: 01/06/05 11:24 AM »

Thanks Guys,
Dealer claims fuel pressure checks ok. When he checked crankshaht sensor in the no start condition he says it checks ok. I'll give him 1 more day to play and then insist on the replacement of the sensor. 
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RichUF

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #12 on: 01/06/05 11:48 AM »

Start familiarizing yourself with your state's lemon laws.  I'm serious.  I think the AV is the absolute best vehicle on the road, but if a service department backed by engineers of the largest auto manufuacturer in the world can't figure out how to fix their modern marvel, then ask them for one that works.

I was incredibly patient with my lemon while GM tried to figure it out, and in hind site I probably shouldn't have been.  Only time will tell  :-\
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ralphm

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #13 on: 01/06/05 04:18 PM »

Dealer called and says he FOUND IT. Claims the alternator has an intermittant internal short. It finally shorted completely and took a fusible link with it. Will be repaired tomorrow. I can accept a short shutting the engine down, but why wouldn't the engine start right away afterwards?? Guess I'll see tomorrow. Thanks to all again.
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OviedoAv

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #14 on: 01/06/05 04:40 PM »

That would be a new one on me ??? ::)  Keep us posted.
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ralphm

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #15 on: 01/08/05 01:27 PM »

Problem Fixed. Talked to the mechanic who worked on the truck. After he changed the alternator and fusible link it stalled again. This time he was able to get a code. Crankshaft position sensor! A lot of you guys were right. He believes he couldn't read it before because the intermittant short was causing the voltage to drop and the code was lost. :) :) :D
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PUNISHER

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #16 on: 01/08/05 01:37 PM »

Has a fuel pressure test been run yet?

While it could be other things as well...it sounds very similar to loss of fuel pressure...


   good point.  i had the same system symptoms in a Z-28 some years ago.  it was lack of fuel pressure.
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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #17 on: 01/27/05 10:32 AM »

A friend of mine is currently having this problem - engine stalls out almost randomly.  Truck is 2002 with under 25,000mi.  Truck is at the dealer.  Dealer wanted to clean fuel injectors but could not promise to solve the problem.  Will keep you all posted with the process.
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ralphm

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #18 on: 01/27/05 05:54 PM »

The mechanic who repaired my truck showed me the defective sensor. Instead of being straight it had a slight curve in it. This is caused by heat ,over time, and eventually the sensor is too far out of position and the engine quits. As it cools it may move just enough  for the sensor to read again and the engine will restart. The replacements are designed slightly different to avoid distorting.
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corey

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #19 on: 08/29/05 12:35 PM »

My 2002 2500 has been stalling and after checking the fuel filter and pump myself, I gave up and took it to the dealer. They immediatly suggested the cranks shaft position sensor. Seeing that everyone else has had this same problem and this fixed it, gives me hope that the dealer is right.
Thanks.
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OviedoAv

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #20 on: 08/29/05 12:39 PM »

My 2002 2500 has been stalling and after checking the fuel filter and pump myself, I gave up and took it to the dealer. They immediatly suggested the cranks shaft position sensor. Seeing that everyone else has had this same problem and this fixed it, gives me hope that the dealer is right.
Thanks.

That is your problem, take my word for it. Guaranteed :welcome:
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corey

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #21 on: 08/30/05 09:24 AM »

Yep. I got it back yesterday afternoon and it runs better with no stalls.
$110 for parts (I also had a wiring harness that needed replacing)
$583 for labor.
What a racket.
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58vette

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #22 on: 08/31/05 03:02 PM »

Ok so get this ...
two days ago my 02 avalanche 4x4 2500 w/ the 8100 stalls five miles down the road after
fueling up  . I suspect bad gas / clogged fuel filter  or pump bad but I'm stranded on the road
so after it cools down it starts up and I try to make it home to diagnose the problem better.
well it didn't make it very far , it seems that as soon as it gets up to operating temp it dies.
it doesn't matter if it is at idle or 30 mph it just dies. the problem started a 11:00 am I live
25 miles away , I didn't get the truck home to 10:30 pm . every time it died I would try
something else . first I checked the fuel pressure at the rail seemed good , next time I changed
the plugs , the old ones were white . still no change .. next the fuel filter , Nope nothing..
well I get up the next morning and decide to use the internet for what it was designed for...
 :B: I found this site and this thread and am convinced that my problem is the crank sensor ckp
because I have no spark when the condition happens.. I talk to the dealer and they say that's
highly unlikely they're sure it's the fuel pump , they want to tow it in drop the tank change the
 fuel pump Yada yada .. about $1,000.  or so .

instead I go to autozone put a deposit down to borrow the obd scanner , it comes up po335 ckp
crank sensor I think to myself those guys on that site are Awesome . so I buy the crank sensor
and the dealer mechanic said "good Luck buddy "  $98.20 total  go home cut up both hands ,
cursed every Chevy designer but I finally changed it out Problem solved ! :D it runs like new again!
well the bottom line is YOU GUYS ROCK ! and I'm  proud to join a group of avalanche owners with
the common sense that you guys have... thanks up& running in SW Florida again......
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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #23 on: 08/31/05 03:10 PM »

Ok so get this ...
two days ago my 02 avalanche 4x4 2500 w/ the 8100 stalls five miles down the road after
fueling up  . I suspect bad gas / clogged fuel filter  or pump bad but I'm stranded on the road
so after it cools down it starts up and I try to make it home to diagnose the problem better.
well it didn't make it very far , it seems that as soon as it gets up to operating temp it dies.
it doesn't matter if it is at idle or 30 mph it just dies. the problem started a 11:00 am I live
25 miles away , I didn't get the truck home to 10:30 pm . every time it died I would try
something else . first I checked the fuel pressure at the rail seemed good , next time I changed
the plugs , the old ones were white . still no change .. next the fuel filter , Nope nothing..
well I get up the next morning and decide to use the internet for what it was designed for...
 :B: I found this site and this thread and am convinced that my problem is the crank sensor ckp
because I have no spark when the condition happens.. I talk to the dealer and they say that's
highly unlikely they're sure it's the fuel pump , they want to tow it in drop the tank change the
 fuel pump Yada yada .. about $1,000.  or so .

instead I go to autozone put a deposit down to borrow the obd scanner , it comes up po335 ckp
crank sensor I think to myself those guys on that site are Awesome . so I buy the crank sensor
and the dealer mechanic said "good Luck buddy "  $98.20 total  go home cut up both hands ,
cursed every Chevy designer but I finally changed it out Problem solved ! :D it runs like new again!
well the bottom line is YOU GUYS ROCK ! and I'm  proud to join a group of avalanche owners with
the common sense that you guys have... thanks up& running in SW Florida again......


:welcome: to the site.  Where in SW FL are you located?

Little secret - although OviedoAV can correctly identify this fault, do NOT let him get wind of the fact that you think he has common sense.  Seriously ;)
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WILDFIRE

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Re: Engine Stalling.... Dealer Stumped
« Reply #24 on: 08/31/05 03:13 PM »

congrats on getting it fixed and  :welcome:
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