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Major Problem Here!! I No Longer Have Reverse!!

powersurg

Charter Member
Full Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2002
Messages
1,895
Location
Long Island, New York
Today I throw my car into reverse and nothing happens. I put my foot on the gas and the engine just revs. It's like Reverse is now neutral. THis totally sucks. I checked my tranny fluid and it was low. I put more tranny fluid in but the reverse has not come back. There are no Tranny fluid puddles either on my driveway or street. What's up!! It's strange because there is no hint of a problem with any other gear. Even in reverse, it sounds like nuetral!!!
 
Have you driven it foward after losing reverse? Does it shift through all the gears? A very common problem on 2000-up 4l60e's is that the reaction sun shell splines strip out and the result is no reverse and no 2nd and 4th.
 
I have noticed on mine I can place it the shifter between rev and neut and a little bump of the lever back towards rev will kick into gear.

Hope you dont need a trip to the dealer for a trashed tranny :(
 
Powersurge,,,

That's funny if the sun gear/shell goes, there's usually some sort of warning (like previous hard reverse engagement) ... The sun shells have been beefed up recently too ... What causes the Sun shells to fail is the application of full line pressure in reverse... Due to the PCM assuming there's slippage... The mis-read slippage is due to the wearing of the pressure regulator boost valve/sleeve... ?

Truck eventually either flattens the splines, or strips them completely from the sun shell... Heck, the older ones used to crack... I think GM needs to really take a hard look at the sleeve material they use, as this has been a problem for a while, even on the 4L80E... ?:8:

But normally there is some symptom before this happens right?

*** Also, if you check the tranny fluid on the newer trucks, if it's has not reached 150 degrees F., you will get a low reading on the stick... The trans needs to be brought up to this temp before the reading will be accurate...

If this is not done, the stick, even though the truck is running, will show up to a qt low... Be careful with this!

11H
 
Hello All,
It has been cold here and I noticed that the tranny was taking time shifting into gears. I read a few threads here how that was to rev the engine thus warming it up faster. I have since dismissed this as a problem.
I had reverse the day before. There were no weird sounds. There was nothing out of the ordinary. I have every forward gear. I also have 4 wheel drive. I can use all the gears without any indication there is a problem. Is there a fuse maybe that controls this? THis is weird. The truck is fine in all other aspoects.
 
Powersurge,

When it was new, I had a very rarely occuring problem with my reverse in my old 02. You'd shift into reverse and it would just sit there and do nothing. It eventually cleared up. It also was a bit sluggish in shifting in the forward gears in very cold weather.
 
had this problem with my wives lincoln. It would only go forward. I had to get a new trans. I'd take it it immediately.
 
11H,

These shells can fail with out a hint of a problem. Sun shell breakage has always been a problem with the 700's and 4l60E's. Up until recently the splined part of the shell broke off, now the problem is they strip out. From what I've heard is that GM changed suppliers of the shells and the current shell is of a softer metal. I've heard from other transbuilders that do work for dealers, and they have seen these shells fail in as little as 5,000 miles :eek: I personaly will not use a GM shell on a rebuild until they get this problem fixed. I prefer to use an aftermarket shell that has been heat treated or even beter a shell made by SPX called "the beast" which is much thicker than a stock shell. This is what I'll be putting in mine when it fails, which I expect to happen at some point, I just hope it doesn't happen 300 miles from home :rolleyes:

I think the problem that puts a lot of stress on the shell is the 1-2 shift. Because of the low first gear ratio there is a large drop in rpm from 1-2. In 1st that shell is spining at a pretty good rpm, especially if your foot in the throttle, taching at 4-5 grand, then having it come to a complete stop when the band applies in under a second. Thats going to be quite a load on those splines.

High line pressure will aggravate the problem even more if say it has a code 1870 which the computer will go to maximum line pressure when it sets, and if someone drives it like that for a period of time with a harsh 1-2 shift. I don't think high line in reverse has a big impact on the shell, because there isn't any real movement of the gear train when going from park to reverse. In park the low/ reverse clutch pack is already on to hold the gear train from moving. The reverse boost valve wear is not as big of a problem in the 4l60e compared to the 4l80e. I agree that they really need to do something about the wear problem with the 4l80e. This is the only problem I see that is keeping it from being a bullet proof tranny. 90 percent of the 4l80's I do are because of no reverse complaits, and it always is because the boost valve is worn out.

Powersurge, It sounds like the shell is not broken. It could be something like a stuck valve. No there isn't a fuse that would cause no reverse, none of the solenoids are used for reverse. It is controlled hydraulically by the manual valve. Sounds like a trip to the dealer :(
 
I must thank you all for the extremely informative posts. It's this right here that makes this site worth a million bucks.

I will take it in on Monday/Tuesday. It is a holiday on Manday and I would imagine the service department is closed.

I really hope they don't find any reasons not to cover this under warentee. I have a really bad feeling about this because my Jeep's transfer case went and Chrysler wasn't going to cover the part because they said I didn't get my truck serviced from them. I had to get a lawyer and ultimately I won. It still cost me $250 which was a lot better then the $2800 they said the part was going to cost.

OK, so I am bringing it back to the dealer. I just hope I have no problems with them :cautious:

Thanks Again Guys, you were a real help!!! ;)
 
Keep us up to date with your problem, and how it was solved. Also let us all know how your dealer handled your problem, good-or bad. ;D
 
tomsr said:
Keep us up to date with your problem, and how it was solved. Also let us all know how your dealer handled your problem, good-or bad. ? ?;D

Yes I will do that. I am bringing the truck in tomorrow or tuesday. You will all know the outcome.

 
Update:

Brought the truck to the dealership today. The guy was shocked when I told him what the problem was. I was also having a problem with the right rear view mirror defogger. Like Whoopy when you compare it to the Tranny problem.

The service rep said they will do a diagnosis and determine the cause of the problem. This should be either today or tomorrow. Whether I get a loaner car depends on how serious the problem is and how long it will take to fix it. I think this is fair. I will borrow my father's car until then.

The service rep said that if the tranny is shot they may rebuild it as opposed to putting a new one in. What do you all think about this? Since I bought the truck I have some reservation about putting a rebuilt anything on my truck!!. Historically rebuilt parts are pieces of garbage!!. At least that was the case with all the water pumps I put on my 1980 Delta 88
 
Hi Surge,

I guess a lot would depend on whether they rebuild your transmission or replace it with a "rebuilt". At least you know what yours has been through and how many miles are on it.

If they get a rebuilt from inventory you'll have no idea of the history. Hopefully they give you a nice long warranty.

kw
 
Powersurge,,,

I'm sure mike will pop in here, and I hope he does... I have talked to a Corvette Tranny shop before, and they told me this...

Always have YOUR tranny re-built, as transmissions wear to the harmonics, and vibrations of the vehicle it was mated to when it was a brand new unit...

I don't know if there is any truth to this, but I would rebuild yours... There are many hard parts that will get stressed that are not necessarily part of a rebuild... (Input Shaft Assy) ... For example, the input shaft (Steel) goes into an aluminum drum... After some miles, and hard driving, this area where the shaft and drum meet, can get really stressed, and eventually crack at the splined part...

Now, upon visual inspection of say a 4L60E with 50,000 miles, the technician may not see a problem with this part because it's intact, and not cracked or shows any signs of failre or fault... You just might get a rebuilt core with stressed parts ... Now you, POWERSURGE, trade in your practically new core for a used, re-built unit, and you don't know how THAT one was used... It may have hard use, and the part I mention for example might be stressed to 50,000 (more or less) miles already... I don't know if I'm entirely correct, but this is my vantage point...

11H
 
I just got off the phone with the dealership.

They are bringing in an outside torque converter for some additional testing. They determined that the tranny is shot and that there is a bunch of junk inside the Transmission. He said tey had no idea what the crap was but that I should be able to get me truck back by tomorrow. I have to call him vack at 3:00 tomorrow.

So Far So Good

 
Mike, do you work at a tranny shop or a dealer or something? Thanks for the wealth of info! (y)

I wish I knew of you about 9 months ago when I was pulling my hair out about "Shift Solenoid B" in the 4L60E in my old truck.

Had the thing in the shop for a week - couldn't find anything wrong.

They replaced solenoid. Worked great for a week, and **** the bed again.

I traded the truck in at that point.
 
Powersurge said:
I just got off the phone with the dealership.

They are bringing in an outside torque converter for some additional testing. They determined that the tranny is shot and that there is a bunch of junk inside the Transmission. He said tey had no idea what the crap was but that I should be able to get me truck back by tomorrow. I have to call him vack at 3:00 tomorrow.

So Far So Good

METAL SHAVINGS.

that's what my wives car had.

 
11H,

I have no idea on the harmonics and vibrations thing, thats a new one to me.

The GM rebuilds are pretty good at replacing most of the hard parts with new stuff.
Yes there are parts that can get stressed that are not replaced on a rebuild. I usually don't replace the input shaft housing assembly unless the bushing surfaces are worn, all you can do is a look for cracks around the spline area. They rarely fail, it takes a lot of abuse or high horsepower to break them. Another thing is planetaries, it's something you have to look at very closely and determine if you want to reuse it or not.

Marc_W,

Yes I work at a tranny shop, I've been a builder for 15 years.
 
When I was talking to the Service Guy he said that they had the tranny apart and were waiting for a torque converter to be delivered. I asked if the Torque Converter had a problem but he said no. He said there was a bunch of garbage in the tranny. Why would he need a Torque Converter delivered if there was nothing wrong with mine? Please keep in mind you are dealing with an automotive moron.

Thanks!!!
 
Powersurge,,,

I have heard that the oem converter is the best route, so maybe they are having a new one shipped to their location... It might not be a locally stocked item... Maybe that's what he means...

I have heard the new 300mm converters are highly sought after by builders...

I have heard that anytime there is contamination in the tranny like shavings or the like, the converter gets replaced...

This is all second hand info though, so don't run to the bank...

11H
 
The OEM converter is the only way to go on the 98-up units. The converter clutch lining is a woven carbon fiber type material that GM holds the patent on so there isn't really an aceptable replacement lining avaliable to the aftermarket, but several companies are getting very close.

The converter needs to be replaced if the unit is full of metal, for one thing, if it was reused you would be dumping metal back into a fresh unit and also if the metal gets imbeded into the the lining it will destroy itself.
 
OK Folks, I got my truck back!! ;D

First I would like to say that Ramp Chevy in Port Jefferson NY is awesome. They did an extremely efficient job in returning my vehicle back to may after it suffered major surgery. :cry: Everything was covered under the warentee.

Here is the Low Down as it is explained on the Invoice given to me.

Miscelanous Tranny Hours Tech(s): 24

Customer States // Has no reverse.
Verified No Reverse: Found Low and Reverse Clutch Failed, Also found low and reverse piston jammed. Found Desbris under piston and vlave body. Necessary to overhaul Tranny. Topped off Fluid. Road Test OK

Items Required
FLTR KIT 4.197
PLATE PKG 4.163
GSKT KIT 4.005
T/CNV REM 4.115
CORE RETURN
PLATE PKG 4.163
GASKET 4.515
FLUID 8.8

Customer States// Passenger Sideview Mirror heater is inoperable
Found it to be not operating
Replaced Mirror Glass with New

Items Required
Mir-Kit 16.068


Thanks for all your concern. (y)
 
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