Horn Mods

I'm thinking about installing a different (and louder) horn--need to get the attention of some of these SA drivers. I did a search and couldn't find any threads on horn mods. Any ideas?

Here are some suggestions:

Truck Horns - 152 DB

The Best Darn Parts - by all means check out the Dukes of Hazard horn set.

gandolphxx said:

Here are some suggestions:

Truck Horns - 152 DB

The Best Darn Parts - by all means check out the Dukes of Hazard horn set.

Click to expand...

Pardon my ignorance but I was always under the impression there were some laws or rules or whatever you wanna call them with respects to horns (e.g. decibels/frequencies, etc.) can any of our law enforcement members comment?

BTW, I loved the Dukes of Hazzard...

I have installed a 100-watt Whelen Eletronic Airhorn/PA system. This is the same type of system used on Emergency Vehicles (just minus the siren). The horn is not quite as loud as a true big truck airhorn, but certainly as good as one that runs off of those little compressors (those don't last too long in rainy FL). This horn has been very wet and very muddy. I have it mounted behind the plastic "shield" just behind the front bumper to protect it a little. The control head is mounted under the driver's seat (tight fit with the power seat) so that I can get to the Mic (short cord - extension available but expensive). The horn works off the standard horn switch; simple tap into the fuse box in the engine cmpt - no cutting of factory wires required.

I've found (from being in emergency services) that some people respond better to voice than to a horn... of course there's always that one that will shoot back - thank goodness I haven't found him yet. The PA portion is Excellent and with a few mods, can be used to play radio very loudly outside the truck (or you can just hold it up to a speaker !). Downside --- very expensive... but I like it !!

You can buy one at Galls.com. You'll need to add an appropriate speaker too.

-davidc166

Glad that I found this topic about horns. Does anyone here have experience with the horns made by Hella? Earthroamer.com had them. FYI, it's a website about a guy who fixed up a Dodge Ram for expeditions. ( I know, I know.... But I'm interested in HD parts.
As far as the legality goes, I'm in California. Anything goes. I see vehicles on the road everyday with expired tags, so I'm not in the least bit worried about CHP.
Durwin

i'm looking at the air horn route (when i get some extra $)

one of my friends went to bone yard and picked the horns of an old cadi. i think it was late 70s model and wow are they load

Great find! Something I wanted but only think about when driving. The train one is perfect to get the 'Grandmas' out of the FAST LANE.
Another mod for the never ending wish list...

I've got a set of air horns hooked up to my Silverado... loudest things on earth. Scares the sh*t outta people when they try and move over on you. To keep legal I have a two way switch on the dash that flips back to the normal car horn.

Skidd said:

I've got a set of air horns hooked up to my Silverado... loudest things on earth. ?Scares the sh*t outta people when they try and move over on you. ?To keep legal I have a two way switch on the dash that flips back to the normal car horn. ?

Click to expand...

Sneaky... very sneaky

gandolphxx said:

Here are some suggestions:

Truck Horns - 152 DB

The Best Darn Parts - by all means check out the Dukes of Hazard horn set.

Click to expand...

That train horn is a MUST for me! I wonder if I will mount it out for all to see or put it under the hood. Nah....keeping it under the hood. Now to find the $600 to get the horn and the compressor. Any suggestions on mounting locations. I was thinking opposite side from the under hood fuse box or down low somewhere.

I have the cheapy air horns mounted behind the front facsia/front fender now. I love the sound of Stutter tones. ( fire truck air horns) I'm going to try and mount an air compressor and mount a set on the A/V. Tell me that won't move some people!!

Check out my pic's these baby's are pretty loud don't know the brand they are hooked up to the factory horns I just couln't sit there and see this big bad a$$ truck sit there with that wimpy factory horn.

I like the train horn sound however I do believe that driving around town it may be a little TOO MUCH!
But on the highway I do have to agree that it would be amusing to blair the horns at an SOB that cuts me off!
Iwould definitely love to get some new horns, I want loud ones, something that will tell people not to mess with me, but I want them to be legal. So I guess the search continues.

-James R.

Ok folks, I'm getting serious with this horn thing. Does anyone out there know how loud the stock horns are? The Hella's that I'm finding are in the 135-140 range. Griot's Garage have some for about $65 that look as though they would be an easy replacement for the stock horns. They are about 135dba. The Hella air horns that I've found are a little louder at 140.
I want be be offensive to the next gram ma that I see doing a California lane change. ( Gradually drifting into the adjacent lane w/o a turn signal or without looking)
Durwin

Update: In later discussion in this thread, Boar-Ral has shown me the light. I have been saying that 3dB is double the volume. In fact, 3dB is double the signal power, which is not the same thing. It actually takes about 10dB increase to double the percieved volume. I stand corrected. My apologies to Boar-Ral and everybody else!
Be aware that dB is a logarithmic scale. Each 3dB is double the volume.

Take the Griot's at 135 dB as a reference. Then a horn that is 138 dB (135 + 3) would be twice as loud, and one at 141 dB (138 + 3) would be twice as loud as the 138. The horn at 141 would be four times as loud as the one at 135. The Hella horn should be almost 4 times as loud as the Griot's.

The train horn at 150 dB is 15 dB louder than the 135. That makes it 32 times louder than the 135 dB horn. (15 divided by 3 is 5, 2 raised to the fifth power is 32)

Also, there are different loudness scales, one of them is dBa, I don't remember the others) and numbers cannot be directly compared between them. (I'll let an audio expert come up with the conversion formulas.)

Finally, the sound level can be measured at different distances. The closer the measurment is made to the sound source, the louder the reading.

The only way to really compare sound levels is if they are measured on the same scale, and at the same distance. Unfortunately, must ads do not indicate the scale or distance, so direct comparisons are difficult.

It's just like with audio specs: you can compare the watt rating of two amplifiers, but unless you also know the distortion level and speaker impeadance, you really can't compare the numbers.

-- SS

ShapeShifter said:

Be aware that dB is a logarithmic scale. Each 3dB is double the volume.

Take the Griot's at 135 dB as a reference. Then a horn that is 138 dB (135 + 3) would be twice as loud, and one at 141 dB (138 + 3) would be twice as loud as the 138. The horn at 141 would be four times as loud as the one at 135. The Hella horn should be almost 4 times as loud as the Griot's.

The train horn at 150 dB is 15 dB louder than the 135. That makes it 32 times louder than the 135 dB horn. (15 divided by 3 is 5, 2 raised to the fifth power is 32)

Also, there are different loudness scales, one of them is dBa, I don't remember the others) and numbers cannot be directly compared between them. (I'll let an audio expert come up with the conversion formulas.)

Finally, the sound level can be measured at different distances. The closer the measurment is made to the sound source, the louder the reading.

The only way to really compare sound levels is if they are measured on the same scale, and at the same distance. Unfortunately, must ads do not indicate the scale or distance, so direct comparisons are difficult.

It's just like with audio specs: you can compare the watt rating of two amplifiers, but unless you also know the distortion level and speaker impeadance, you really can't compare the numbers.

-- SS

Click to expand...

This is true!! Except I heard it was for every 2 db gained it is a preceived doubling of output. It doesnt matter. It is nice to see someone else who knows their stuff!!! Needless to say, my PA system measured at 35 yrds is a whopping 132 db!!! Can you say FEEL IT!!!!

From my crappy memory banks it is 10 dB is a doubling of the sound pressure level....or how it feels on the ears...

The different scales are dBA, dBB, & dBC.......each measures different thingys....and some are used for noise polution measuring...dBA is the most popular and this is where anything over 110 dBA can cause permanent hearing loss....(Check OSHA regulations) and hearing protection is required....

In a former life 95 dBA required ear protection by certain design standards.......

Most sound standards measure from 1 meter away and from all different positions......

So what does this have to do with horns.....Well if you place a horn under hood and block the trumpet with thingys the sound level outside would not be as loud as if it was mounted on top of the hood....

For some really cool and loud air horns check out kahlenberg horns They are used on trains, yachts and ships...they have sound clips so you can hear

ShapeShifter said:

Be aware that dB is a logarithmic scale. Each 3dB is double the volume.

Click to expand...

This is a common misconception, going as far as several home and car audio magazines recognizing it. The truth is that every 10 dB is double the volume, not every 3 dB. But the general idea is there: 50 dB is not simply twice as loud as 25 dB.

Just my two cents.

My current horn system is similar to DavidC166's. (DavidC166 went Whelen, I went Code 3.) Two months ago, I complimented my standard horn with a Code 3 V-Con horn and siren system. (Details are available at http://www.code3pse.com/productdtl.asp?grp=cd3&familyid=4&id=24.) This is the same system that is installed in most fire trucks and is responsible for the deep, loud air horn sound when they are trying to get through traffic. Contrary to popular belief, most fire trucks do not use a real air horn. In addition to the standard air horn, it also includes three different sirens, though these are obviously illegal to use in public. It also has a PA input, though I haven't had the urge to use that yet. My Code 3 system drives a 100W Whelen speaker, mounted behind the grill. There is no other way to describe the sound other than 'loud.' It is not an obnoxious sound though, and compliments the Avalanche quite well. (I keep driving past a building downtown where people are striking, just so I can heed their 'honk to show support' signs. )

I decided to not perform a simple horn replacement though, because I live in an apartment and do not want to upset the neighbours with the sound of the alarm arming itself. Getting around this took some thinking, but a friend designed a circuit to determine if it is the alarm honking the horn or myself, and all of that is driven into a switch to let me disable the Code 3 system if I want to.

The installation sounds quite complex, but now that everything is done and we have the schematics left to look at, it really wasn't that bad. Just a lot of experimenting at first.

I will try to record the sound and submit a link to it within the next few days. I recorded it once, but overloaded the microphone and it came out distorted. I will try again from a distance.

Update: In later discussion in this thread, Boar-Ral has shown me the light. I have been saying that 3dB is double the volume. In fact, 3dB is double the signal power, which is not the same thing. It actually takes about 10dB increase to double the percieved volume. I stand corrected. My apologies to Boar-Ral and everybody else!

Boar-Ral said:

This is a common misconception, going as far as several home and car audio magazines recognizing it. ?The truth is that every 10 dB is double the volume, not every 3 dB. ?But the general idea is there: 50 dB is not simply twice as loud as 25 dB.

Just my two cents.

Click to expand...

I may be mistaken, but I stand by my earlier comments. Just to be sure, I looked up the definition again, and found this:

dB
Pronounced decibel or just dB. Gives a logarithmic relation between two powers. The scale follows the relation:

db = 10 * log10(P2 / P1)

where
P1 is the reference or input power
P2 is the output power

0 dB means that the powers of P1 and P2 are equal. 10 dB means that the power P2 is 10 times higher than P1. 20 dB means that the power P2 is 100 times higher than P1 and in the same way -10 dB means that P2 is a tenth of the power of P1. Decibels is really a dimensionless scale, but it allways means the effective power ratio measured along a logarithmic scale.

Click to expand...

Now take the case where P2 is twice P1. The ratio P2/P1 will be 2. The log base 10 of 2 is 0.30103, and ten times that is 3.0103. (As a generalization, that's close enough to 3 for most people.) If P2 is four times P1, then 10 times the log of 4 is 6.0206. And so on.

Now, all of that being said, there are some strange conventions with audio, and the standard engineering rules may not apply. If that is the case, I stand corrected. If you have a reference that indicates otherwise, please let me know. I'm always ready to learn something new.

-- SS

All I know is my sound system standing on the 35 yrd line, and the band doing a sound check in the endzone of the stadium 4 wks ago, was measured with a hand held "device" reading 132 Db. I can feel it in my chest and when I get near the bass cabinets, my vision goes blurry!!

I measure loud by the above mentioned chest/vision method. And yes I wear earplugs!!!

Hehehehe. Thank you all....
I now have it narrowed down to two.. The Griot's Garage replacement and another one made by Hella with 2 trumpets....
Now.. Anyone out there know how loud the stock horn is??
Thanks for the help so far.
Durwin

ShapeShifter said:

Now, all of that being said, there are some strange conventions with audio, and the standard engineering rules may not apply. If that is the case, I stand corrected. If you have a reference that indicates otherwise, please let me know. I'm always ready to learn something new.

Click to expand...

Indeed. The problem with any formula such as this is that there are many variables, as you can see. (I do not mean ambient sound or other environmental variables. I mean concrete variables including voltage, etc.) Using the logarithmic forumula for dB, every 3 dB results in a doubling of the signal level, but to acknowledge a perceived doubling in volume requires 10 dB. This is because what we hear is not just the signal level. There are many variables between it and what we hear.

This may be confusing, but I am trying to paraphrase as best as possible because this book is even more confusing. What I find works better is do simply get a dB chart and use it instead. Besides, how often do you go, 'Wow! That horn sounds like 150 dB!' More likely, you'd be comparing it to a train or something anyway.

Boar-Ral said:

Indeed. ?The problem with any formula such as this is that there are many variables, as you can see. ?(I do not mean ambient sound or other environmental variables. ?I mean concrete variables including voltage, etc.) ?Using the logarithmic forumula for dB, every 3 dB results in a doubling of the signal level, but to acknowledge a perceived doubling in volume requires 10 dB. ?This is because what we hear is not just the signal level. ?There are many variables between it and what we hear.

Click to expand...

OK, I get it. With a 3 dB increase, the power level (and presumably the sound pressure level) is indeed doubled. However, what I missed is that the human hearing response is apparently not linear!

So I guess that doubling the power does not double the perceived volume. I will gladly concede your point. I learn something new every day.

My experience is with radar signals and RF measurements. In that realm, the physics remains pretty stable and predictable. In audio, I guess the physics is also the same, but the human physiology is not!

Besides, how often do you go, 'Wow! ?That horn sounds like 150 dB!' ?More likely, you'd be comparing it to a train or something anyway.

Click to expand...

In my case, I'd probably say something like "Holy S---! That hurts!"

-- SS