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Predator Vs. HPIII

SICKWIDIT

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Messages
169
there has been a lot of topics posted here about these digital tuners..and i would be interested to here from people who have both...what are some highs and lows of both products
 
Well,,,

Since I have had both, I can now comment... There are virtues of both units, and drawbacks...

Here's my experience with my particular units on my 1500 Z71 Avalanche, and it may be totally different from yours so no flames please... ?>:D

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The Diablo I had didn't have a clue during the 1-2 WOT shift... I tried 8 or 9 combinations of settings (Firmness, Time, and on both T/H and Regular) ... It shifted like a lazy Ford Maverick ... The oem 1-2 shift without the Predator was A LOT quicker and firmer without even being in T/H ... The 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 was crisp though at WOT and partial throttle ... I had Version 1.03 ...

The Hypertech has shifting down-pat ... Crisp at WOT and partial throttle in ALL GEARS ...

ADVANTAGE: Hypertech (due to the flubby 1-2 on the Predator)

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Predator is all 91-93 octane or nothing ... You can't run the unit period if you don't run 91-93 octane...
*** Simply dialing back timing or adding fuel on the Predator only covers WOT, and not partial throttle tuning, which is where I ran a lot of knock retard while trying 87 octane ... (I had no Knock retard with the 87 octane at wot anyways; it was under lugging conditions at partial throttle where the 87 fell short, which is where the manual fuel and spark won't help you) ... Also, I will say, as an alternative, you can have Diablo or RWTD send you an oem file to upload to the Predator to allow 87 octane, but then you lose the 93 octane file, and if you want to run 93 tuning, you need to get the file again from them... You can only have 1 "tune" file per unit according to James at RWTD ...
The Hypertech gives you 3 tuning options... Stock, 87, or 93 octane tuning ... All in one unit ... If you want to just keep the stock tuning, you have all the other features to play with... Diablo comes canned with 91-93 only, and their tune is a required upload...

ADVANTAGE: Hypertech

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I tried to use Diablo's partial throttle upshift adjustments (speed vs. load) and saw no improvement at loads of 20% all the way to 50% ... It did hold each gear a smidge longer above 50% load, but it was barely noticeable ... Hypertech does not adjust partial throttle shift points, so here even though it wasn't significant, I have to say:

ADVANTAGE: Diablo

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Let's talk "kick-down" ... It's when you floor it, and the truck drops to the lowest safe gear for passing power... We all know what this is... The Diablo DOES increase WOT upshifts, but the kick-down does not increase at all ... You still get oem kick-down points... The Hypertech adjusts both... If you add 7 MPH on the 2-3 upshift, you also get that 7 MPH increase on kick-down... Example: Stock, if you floor it at 69 MPH, it will drop all the way to 2nd ... If you are going 70 or above, it will only drop to 3rd, and man is it slow moving in 3rd at 70 MPH ... With the Hypertech, adding 7 MPH to the 2-3 shift, I can floor it at anything below 77 MPH, and it drops to second, and lunges... Nuff said... I guess you could manually select second with the gear shift, but the Hypertech takes the guess work out of it ... So,

ADVANTAGE: Hypertech

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Diablo is married to the first truck it programs period... You are comitted to it for life... Hope your av's buyer wants a Diablo ... Hypertech can be re-used on another truck, or be sold later to another user ... Bad hit for the Predator ...

ADVANTAGE: Hypertech

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The Diablo has excellent diagnostic capabilities, even though it runs real time data at a slow read rate ... It runs real time data about 1 second behind, so if you have 9 degrees of retard in that second, you might catch it on the down slope and it may show you only 3 or 4 ... The KR needs to be under the timing line in the display, not all the way at the bottom... You cannot look at KR along with other related readouts like timing advance, coolant temp, etc... They need to put KR up where the other stuff is, not below O2 sensors that take up 4 lines alone ... ?:8: ...The Predator Checks and clears DTC's ... Hypertech is a lame duck for diagnostics, as it has none ... Even though the Diablo's screen needs re-organizing, along with some speed, it gets the nod here ...

ADVANTAGE: Diablo

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My Diablo hung 4 times ... The 6 Hypertechs I have owned never have once ... But, the Diablo easily regrouped when it was powered up again... I will say, it never hung in the middle of an upload, restore, or back-up ... It hung with "script errors" only when I tried to modify the tuning ... I also had 2 errors that said "time not elapsed" or something like that ... I followed the instructions to the letter, as they were on my lap ... You can't blame this one on me ... The Hypertech manual is a little better than the Predator's ... I felt like I was on Sesame Street while reading the Diablo manual ... ;D

ADVANTAGE: Hypertech

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Diablo has much broader ranges of adjustment and fine tuning ability ... You can adjust firmness from +25% to -25% all in .25% increments... The diablo truly shines here ... It is the same with RPM shift points... It allows 10 RPM increments... Hypertech firmness is on or off ... But the Hypertech even though it is on or off, on is near perfect ... The Diablo also allows you to adjust WOT spark timing and Fuel Enrichment, a big thing for tuners on the dyno trying to tune WOT for max power output ... Hypertech gives you 3 tuning options, but you get what you get, unless you send it back to Hypertech and they give you another tune file ... Big time winner to Diablo

ADVANTAGE: Diablo (Big Time)

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Diablo offers a max speed shut off of 125 MPH, Hypertech offers 128 MPH ... Not a big deal, but 3 MPH is 3 MPH ...

ADVANTAGE: Hypertech

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Price: Average retail pricing... Diablo = $425 ?....
Hypertech = $340 ... Both offer a Lifetime Warranty ...

ADVANTAGE: Hypertech

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This is all I can think of right now at 3:45 a.m. ... If you guys think you can add to this, let me know ... My personal "unbiased" opinion is that the Predator is an extremely talented unit, but has some issues that need worked a little, at least in my unit ... The Hypertech, on the surface or in ads may seem pretty basic, but once you experience them both, the Hypertech does it all well, and only falls short of the Predator in diagnostics, and finer tuning adjustments...


I didn't run either of them side by side on the dyno, but remember, they both offer 93 octane tuning, and recommend a cooler stat ... Is it possible that a mass produced programmer FOR the masses which the manufacturers are in direct competition, that recommends 93 octane for their best "canned" tuning can outshine one another? ... The 5.3 comes pretty close to perfect tuning from the factory, and I would think Hypertech's 93 tuning will be very similar to Diablo's 93 tuning ... There's really no mystery to uncover here, it's the same things tuned in the mapping ... ie, max timing advance for 93 octane common pump gas without pre-ignition... They both tune incrementally throughout the power band ... So my guess is, if you don't plan on playing around with the Predator's manual timing and fuel feature while on a dyno, the Hypertech is probably close if not very similar with it's canned 93 tune ...

Take away the Predator's diagnostics, and the WOT spark and fuel dyno tune ability, and the Hypertech edges on it ?... IMHO ... ?Again this was my observation on one avalanche with a single diablo, and 2 hypertechs ... So, don't assume my findings are the norm, as trucks, and environments vary... You need to decide what's important to you in a programmer ... ?:B:

BTW, I'm back with the Hypertech, and for now am content with it's performance, and abilities ...

11H


 
Jryther,,,

The Diablo also changes the tuning in the tow haul mod.

It defenitely does that ... But my impression is that by looking at the parameters in both T/H and Normal, they keep relatively the same settings in the canned tune... But it DOES allow you to set up the parameters differently if you want two modes... For example, you can set up T/H to shift later, rev higher, and firmer ... Nice deal there... But I didn't notice more agressive performance tune (ie, mapping) in T/H ... I will say this is a nice feature in that when you feel spunky, you can set up T/H button as a race shift pattern button !

But, ... What happens to the T/H mode when you use the Diablo, is it puts the shift firmness on an even keel with the normal mode... I think if they would have left the oem firmness in place in the T/H mode, we would have al alternative to the "Diablo 1-2 slop" ... Although, they do keep the oem part throttle upshifting pattern of T/H ... ;D

Going back to stock gave me the soft shifting in Normal, and my hard shifting in T/H... But under WOT, the truck shifts much better in T/H and Normal ... Maybe they could just not touch the tranny in their version 1.04 concerning the 1-2 shift... As the T/H firmness in the oem 1-2 shift is great; then we could bump the point of shift ... Again, those with Diablos already will like to see this worked out as you all are stuck with them... Those of you who are on the fence about a programmer, have some info here to compare...

I will say, the Hypertech is a redundant tuner, and has been for years... But my findings show it is far from out of the picture... And it still offers excellent results in places the Diablo falls short...

Jryther, To address your post a little more, you say the Diablo offers dual tuning ... One setup in T/H and one in normal... Well, I question you this... What would be the difference between the Diablo with a mild setup in Normal and an aggressive set up in T/H .... Versus, the Hypertech set for firmness, and 5800 RPM shifts in Normal and in T/H respectively? ... I think the results would be similar ... For all intense of purposes ... If you have not ever tried a Hypertech, find one and give it a shot... I am totally sure you will be happier with the shifting patterns compared to the "current" Predator ...

I will say though, if and when Diablo irons out these issues, (kick-down speed, 1-2 shift, sole 93 tune, diagnostic tweaks, marriage, and the partial throttle mph points) it will be the force to reckon with... Albeit at almost $100 more for now ... It's a hard choice as it is !

11H
 
I will keep working with Diablo to get this issue fixed and will let you know when we have something.

Sweet deal bro... I know the Diablo has major potential; can't be perfect within a year right? ... At least it's being worked on... ?:B:

Also, could you ask if they can offer a "release" service where if you wanted to sell it, or re-use it on a like vehicle, they could offer a Predator "renew" service... And they could actually make $$$ on that too!

Hypertech will convert any programmer to be re-used on another "out of realm" (i.e. You sold a 97 Camaro and want one for your 2002 Truck) vehicle for $200, and that's attractive to some ...

11H
 
No flames here 11h, let?s leave that type of conduct to the folks on LS1 Tech Forum ;). I appreciate the comparison and hope it will help improve v1.04 from Diablo. The only thing I might pick at was that from what I read on your post you only ran the Predator with 87 oct and it is tuned for 91 or 93 oct. But as you didn?t compare the two programmers as how the tunes effected engine performance I guess that is a moot point and there probably not much of a difference with the tuning between the two with premium gas.

In addition, I wish you had done dyno pulls on each unit; I would have loved to see if either really does make any more power. My guess is that it would be minimum or nil for both. :p

As you may remember my Hypertech wouldn?t install, which may or may not have been caused by the Superchips programmer I had that crashed during installation. When the Hypertech unit failed to install the folks at Hypertech sent me a replacement that did the same thing. After that, they didn?t want to work with me to resolve my problem and told me to return the unit for a refund. :D:

Diablo on the other hand went out of there way to help me. When their unit wouldn't install they had me send them my PCM and they programmed it. I have to say from my experience that the folks at Diablo are much more customer orientated than Hypertech. (y)

One last thing for consideration; some of our members had there PCM?s fried during their Hypertech installs and had to get their AV towed to the dealership and play dumb. :6: According to Johan at Diablo their unit has never disabled a PCM. Something to consider. :rolleyes:

Now I will sit back and wait for V1.04. :sleep:
 
One last thing for consideration; some of our members had there PCM?s fried during their Hypertech installs and had to get their AV towed to the dealership and play dumb. ? ?According to Johan at Diablo their unit has never disabled a PCM. ?Something to consider.

Enlighten me Johnny_D ... When was this !?

I recall one instance, and there was speculation he didn't pull onstar or had poor voltage... Maybe I missed something...???

Last I checked, the Hypertech was near flawless, and never fried anyone's pcm ... Just didn't work and replacements were sent out ...

Here's the Hypertech poll:

Hypertech Poll

I will agree with you on the customer service of Diablo... And RWTD ... All these guys especially James are first class ... Lets hope it stays that way ... Hypertech tends to be a little snooty when you have a problem, but they have been doing this thing for near 20 years ... I give them credit for not selling out or merging as so many other aftermarket companies have...

In addition, I wish you had done dyno pulls on each unit; I would have loved to see if either really does make any more power.

I could have actually ... I had no retard with 87 at WOT with the Predator so I was hoping my av was a "lucky" one ... So, I'm sure my increase would have been the same as running 93 oct... If you can slip passed their tuning with 87 getting no retard at WOT, you won't do any better running 93 ... If it aint running KR, the mapping don't know what's there ... 87 or 93 ... But again, the margin above what the 5.3 does stock is not much... Running premium pump gas along with the oem tuning being so good, doesn't give too much room to work on power increase... They have a tough job... It's easy to make power at WOT, but the partial throttle to WOT transitions need to be kept happy as well ... It's all one big picture... And I haven't even mentioned load yet... Now on the new Turbo Diesels, there is a lot of room to play; also the standard 6.0 Vortec has lots of room to go up ... ?>:D

On the power making statement... I think every truck is different as far as the PCM goes... Yes, the PCM is the same, and the programming is the same, but they will make various adjustments to acheive a desired outcome... I think the ability of these units to make extra power depends on how far your current tune is out on a limb to live happily... Also, depending on mod severity, it will skew too ... The main draw back to the oem PCM tuning is that it prioritizes fuel effeciency then emissions... Power is last... Chevy does it pretty good though... Unfortunately the target under partial throttle for A/F ratio is 14.7:1 ... This does not equate to max power... And the further the LTFT's are from zero, the less potential for power when WOT is acheived... If the A/F ratio was a little closer to max power ratios instead of stoich, I think we would be better off for power, but not so on emissions or mileage...

I tell ya GM, it's your tree; I'm just a squirrel tryin' to get a nut !

11H (going nuts)
 
11H said:
Enlighten me Johnny_D ... When was this !?

I recall one instance, and there was speculation he didn't pull onstar or had poor voltage... Maybe I missed something...???

Last I checked, the Hypertech was near flawless, and never fried anyone's pcm ... Just didn't work and replacements were sent out ...

Here's the Hypertech poll:

Hypertech Poll
(going nuts)

Ahh, here for a few. Sorry I don't have time to find them all at this monent:

NEED HEL RIGHT NOW WITH HYPERTECH UNIT HELP

NEED HEL RIGHT NOW WITH HYPERTECH UNIT HELP





 
Wow... I wasn't aware of those two siuations... Looks like JD took care of the guys though... (I have talked to JD down there years ago, and he's cool...) ... All the problems I have heard of with the Hypertech at the shop were from power supply problems...

I would think you getting re-flashed after the SC fiasco would have fixed your issue with the Hypertech ... But really, it does suck when you have to put up with tight lipped bs from Hypertech... I have found that it depends on who you talk to down there, which is unfortunate... :7:

11H
 
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