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Av Vs GVWR Vs Trailer Towing

saint

Charter Member
Full Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2002
Messages
29
Location
Calgary, Alberta
The lease on the car is up in September and we are starting to look at replacement vehicles to buy. At the top of our list is an Av. At some point in the next year ot two we plan on getting a small trailer (around 18-21 feet) for camping. The question I have is regarding the GVWR on the 1500 Av.
The police are getting more stringent up here in Canada regarding overloading trucks pulling trailers, so I want to make sure I get the right size pickup.

Correct me if I'm wrong on the calculations here.

It seems like the GVWR of a 1500 4X4 Av is 7,000 lbs. The truck itself weighs right around 5,700 lbs (heavy). If you load it up with 4 occupants (600 lbs.) + 400 lbs. of cargo + the tongue weight of the trailer 400 lbs (this is an average of a few 21 foot trailers I have examined) I come up with a total weight on the truck of 7,100 lbs. According to this I would be overloaded on the Av. Does this seem right?? If this is the case then it wouldn't seem like the 1500 Av would be able to legally tow very much at all.

I know that on the GM website it says it has a towing capacity of over 6,000 lbs, but that doesn't really have a bearing on the GVWR. If my calculations are correct, the 1500 Av wouldn't tow much, and I would need to look at the 2500 Av instead. I am not keen on that idea mainly because of gas mileage concerns and the much stiffer suspension. We would only be towing the trailer 3-4 weeks a year, but if I get pulled over and am overweight, they force you to leave the trailer where it is until you can tow it with a proper vehicle (at least in one province up here in Canada).

Can anybody help clarify this for me at all, or point out the error in my calculations?? I know the Av 1500 would have enough power, just not if I could legally tow the trailer.

Stephen
 
What you need to find is the GCWR (Gross Combination Weight Rating), this is the maximum that your entire rig (camper and truck may weigh combined). This is available in the dealers towing guide if it is not published elsewhere. Subtract the weight of your loaded tow vehicle from the GCWR and you get the maximum weight of the trailer that yo may tow. I can speak from experience when I say that the Avalanche is a VERY capable tow vehicle. I tow a 23' hybrid camper with a gross weight of 4400#. My 1500 Z71 Avalanche handles it with ease. My previous vehicle was a 1995 GMC Yukon. I was concerned about going from a 5.7 litre engine to a 5.3, but this Avalanche has much more towing power than my old Yukon, and gets better gas mileage! I am sure that you will find the 1500 Avalanche more than adequate as long as you keep your trailer weight reasonable. There is an "unwritten law" that you should keep your trailer weight at no more than 75% of the maximum tow rating of your vehicle. This seems to be good advice. We tend to add "stuff" to our campers and often end up with more weight than we anticipated, so the 25% cushion is probably prudent.
HTH
 
The 1500 2WD with 3.73s has a towing limit of 7300 lbs while the 1500/w 4.10 is rated at 8300 lbs. I believe these numbers are based on 5400lbs( the weight)+ a full gas tank and a driver.

I the GVWR is 6800lbs for the above truck, but it's for the AV only, not a trailer. Yes, the extra weight in the AV would need to be subtracted from the towing weight.

The worst case scenario would be:
AV with 1400 lbs of gear = 6800.
Towing cap: 7300 - 1400 = 5900 lb trailer.
 
copied from the chevy website:
TRAILERING(1)
Trailer towing 1500 2WD 1500 4x4 2500 2WD 2500 4x4

3.73 axle ratio (lbs.) 7300 7100 10,400 10,100
4.10 axle ratio (lbs.) 8300 8100 12,000 12,000


1 Maximum trailer weight ratings are calculated assuming a base vehicle, except for any option(s) necessary to achieve the rating, plus driver. The weight of other optional equipment, passengers and cargo will reduce the maximum trailer weight your vehicle can tow. See your Chevy dealer for additional details.


CAPACITIES
Model 1500 2WD 1500 4x4 2500 2WD 2500 4x4
Curb weight (lbs.) 5400 5652 6353 6642
Payload(1) (lbs.) 1363 1322 2247 1958
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(2)
(GVWR) 6800 7000 8600 8600
1 Maximum payload capacity including weight of driver, passengers, optional equipment and cargo.
2 Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) includes vehicle, passengers, equipment and cargo.

 
The more I look at this, the more I see Saint's point. Because of the near 5700 lb weight of a 4X4, there is only 1300 pounds left for payload. If you subtract the trailer tongue weight of 400 lbs, then you only have 900 lbs left for occupants and cargo. My family weighs about 550 lbs, so that leaves 450 lbs for cargo. That may be cutting it close for me if I decide to pull a travel trailer.
 
I broke out the manual from the glovebox:

The Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) for the C/K 1500 is 13,000 lbs for 3.73 gears and 14,000 lbs for 4.10 gears. This inlcudes vehicle, trailer, cargo and passengers.

The 2500 GCWR is a measly :rolleyes: 17,000/19,000 lbs for 3.73/4.10 respectively.

So it seems that a 1500 4WD 3.73 AV can pull how much fully loaded? 13,000 - 6,800 (max Gross vehicle weight) = 5,200 lbs.

The trailer tongue weight is a good question. I don't think that they could say the max trailer weight is 7,300 lbs but it's really only 6,800 lbs if the tongue weight is 500 lbs. ???
 
Saint,

If you really believe that you must have a 1500 series truck then just put that 400 pounds of cargo in the trailer. Problem solved.

But, you stated:
If my calculations are correct, the 1500 Av wouldn't tow much, and I would need to look at the 2500 Av instead. I am not keen on that idea mainly because of gas mileage concerns and the much stiffer suspension.

There would be a 'gas-mileage' penalty but, not as much as I think you're assumimg.
As for that "stiffer suspension"? Have you taken a test-drive of these trucks yet? Although I do not, yet, own one, I have driven several examples of both. Believe me "Stiff" is not a word that you will use once you have driven that 2500.
It did feel a little bit heavier than the 1500 but, not at all stiff. It rides like a limo and handles even better. I have driven limos for many years... this thing is better.
Being in Canada I can see why you'd need the 4x4 version but consider this, as well. If you are ever going to be towing anything weighing more than 4,000 pounds at an elevation greater than 4,000 feet you will be very glad you got that 2500 with the big-block motor.

We would only be towing the trailer 3-4 weeks a year, but if I get pulled over and am overweight, they force you to leave the trailer where it is until you can tow it with a proper vehicle (at least in one province up here in Canada).

Having said that, I would go with the 1500 if I knew I would never be pulling the trailer in the mountains. And, if you're sure that is the largest/heaviest trailer you're ever going to tow with it. Just put that extra "cargo-weight" where you need to. If it's too much for the truck, put it in the trailer. Really, like Big_Don said, that GCWR is just as important, so long as you don't exceed your GVWR as well.

I think the 1500 Avs are very well suited to towing boats, what with their lower tongue-weights , and reduced 'frontal-area' drag.

I guess if I were you I go with the 2500. But, the 1500 could do it.

There are a lot of 2500 Av owners on here and I'm sure they can give you a much better perspective on their ownership experiences.

Whichever you go with I'm sure you're going to love it. :)

So long as it's an Avalanche!


 
Thanks for all the responses to my questions. I have done a little more checking on this, and at least in my area, the total weight (truck & trailer) is taken into account as well, but one of the primary things they look at is the GVWR and not the GCWR. If this is the case then the GVWR of 7,000 is the more important thing to look at. That would take us back to the 5,600 lb vehicle (dry) + gas + occupants + cargo + tongue weight. This is the most important of all the calculations. If the vehicle itself is only rated for 7,000 lbs, then the combined weight on both axles cannot exceed that, no matter what.
I guess the best way to compensate for this would be to take as much of the cargo from the truck and put it in the travel trailer. Taking an average of 10% tongue weight to trailer weight, moving 400 lbs of cargo from the truck to the trailer would increase the tongue weight by about 40 lbs if you put the extra 400 lbs pretty close over the axles of the trailer. Putting the weight closer to the front of the trailer would increase the tongue weight a little more. Of course, then you would have to worry about the GVWR of the trailer itself. The 21 foot trailer I used had a dry weight of 3,600 lbs and a max weight of 5,000 lbs. That 1,400 lbs shouldn't be bad, you migt just have to not fully load up the water tanks if you think you are getting close to the max. it is too bad the GVWR on the 1500's was not the 8,600 lbs like on the HD trucks.

I just talked to a lady who was pulled over last summer traveling in ?the next province over. She had exceeded the weight on her 1/2 ton and as result, she had to leave the trailer parked till she could get rent a 3/4 ton truck to pull her trailer back. Talk about a nightmare. I never did get details as to what type of 1/2 ton (HD or not) or how big the trailer was. They don't seem to care as much in the province I live in, unfortunately most of our camping is done in that particular neighboring province.
 
Twain,

That scale is not all that big. It fits in the trunk of a police-cruiser. They only have to weigh one wheel at a time. They have a formula for determining the total weight of a vehicle.
The local-police in our township have these scales but, they only bother with trucks on the highway. Stopping vacationers in their RV's is just poor public-relations, IMHO. That really stinks.

Stephen,

I think you're on the right track there. The thing to make sure of is that you don't exceed the WR's of either the truck's GVWR, the trailer's GVWR or the trailer's axle's GAWR or any of it's tires ratings, as well. As far as that "tongue-weight" is concerned, I don't think you'd be able to exceed it with a trailer that small. You would surely exceed the GVWR of the trailer and it's axles before that would happen. It's better to have a little too much tongue-weight than not enough. Too light a tongue weight leads to trailer-sway. Too much can be compensated for with a "Load-Equalizing" hitch or "Friction/Traction" type anti-sway devices, (if the tongue-weight is not in excess of the trucks rating). I prefer the "Load-Equalizing" hitch.
As far as the "Gross-Combined-Weight-Rating" for the 1500 Avalanche goes,... I can't imangine a 21' travel-trailer being loaded heavy enough to exceed that without exceeding it's own GVWR.

Good luck with it, whatever you do.

I'd keep checking back to this thread, as I'm sure there will be many responses from 2500 Av owners with lot's of very good reasons for giving that BEAST a serious consideration.

You're going to love it, whichever you go with.
 
Trying to figure out the whole trailer weight thing really stinks, and what you have told us about Canadian laws concerning it. But, I also have some really scary stories to tell you about people who have exceeded their vehicles capabilities, and paid the price for it.

The latest, only happened 2 weeks ago. A buddy of mine decided to hitch up his camper (not sure on size) to the back of his Durango, and head down to New Orleans. On the way there, they were hit by some nasty winds, which started the trailer hopping one way, and the truck the other way. To make a long story short, they lost control of the truck, and ended up rolling it in the median, after doing a complete 180 on the freeway. My friend had to be cut out of the durango, and has spent a good deal of time in and out of the hospital because of a busted colar bone, and two fractured disks in his back.

 
Thanks for the help everyone. I'm hoping to get an Av in the fall. I would have liked to see what the 2003 model looks like, both inside and out, but the timing may not be right. We will be buying around the end of Sept. and they may not have the 2003's up here that early. We recently went to a car show the other weekend to look at our options for a vehicle. All that happened out of 2 + hours of walking around is that now the wife wants a sunroof on the Av. So basically the car show ends up costing me an extra grand for a vehicle. How did that work :eek: :eek:

It is interesting I haven't heard from more 2500 owners on this. I have to admit that I haven't driven a 2500 but the gas mileage difference would not be working in my favour considering most of the driving would be without a trailer.
 
Saint wrote "It is interesting I haven't heard from more 2500 owners on this. I have to admit that I haven't driven a 2500 but the gas mileage difference would not be working in my favour considering most of the driving would be without a trailer."

As you can see by my signature, I drive a 2500 Av, 4x4, 4.10 locking, loaded except sun roof. Given the potiential for trouble with the law, I would suggest you get the 2500 to insure no problems. After all you are towing your trailer for fun! Re-read the previous sentence again, and then again. The 2500 chassis and 8.1L motor keep things moving, stopping when needed, and always under your control. The ratings keep the officers and your worries under control.

Mileage is better than my previous Suburban which was a 2500, 7.4L, 2wd. Currently I'm getting +-11.0 mpg when diriving in very heavy big-city traffic. I've made one trip on the road of 250 miles each way. Mileage was still high 11s but that included some city driving plus extended cruising at 80 mph (posted limit of 75), and a few miles at 90 mph (yes that is what the traffic flow was doing, I was only holding my place in line). Again this is with 4.10 gears! It handles highway cruising much better (quieter, smoother) than my Suburban did.

My wife says the Av rides BETTER than that Suburban. Since 2500 Avs are scarce, try to find any 2500, preferably with a 8.1L, at your dealer, whether pickup or Suburban and go for a drive. That will give you a good feel for the ride and drive of the 2500 series Av. Once you own and drive a big block truck, you will never go back. Yes it is that much nicer!

Summary: 2500 series pros - elimination of problems with the law, more power and stability while towing, more than acceptable ride when empty. 2500 series cons - none (I don't give a hoot what the mpg is, just use a credit card... it takes the sting out of filling up).

Figure it this way: for 50,000 miles at 10 mpg (2500) versus 50,000 miles at 14 mpg (1500), the extra gas used comes out to 1429 gallons. So it will cost you only about $2000 over 50,000 miles of driving. Seems like cheap insurance against problems to me. It won't take many citations, tow truck rentals, etc. to make up the difference. Let alone the peace of mind from not worrying.
 
I just had my 1500 A/V weighed this morning and with 4 wheel drive and the Z71 package the total weight without me in it was 5900 lbs. Includes more that 3/4 tank of gas. To me it is heavier than what it should be. Ditto on my Coleman Caravan. It is a few hundred pounds heavier than the advertised weight. Like someone said I think the GCVW is the main factor. The little trailers like mine or even the light weight ones up to 28 feet should pose no problems.
 
The GM website lists curb weight for the 1500 series 4x4 Av at 5678#.
 
Saint,

I would advise getting the 2500. I had a 1/2 ton Silverado with the 5.3 and it pulled nicely as long as there were no hills. My 8.1 Av really pulls nicely, in all conditions. I have a lot of tongue weight with my trailer and installed the Air Lift bags and compressor to level the Av back up. Its an easy installation to recover from an improperly balanced trailer.

As far as the fuel economy goes, the passing quality at highway speeds with the big block completely deletes any economy convictions you might have once had.....
 
Harveywk said:
I just had my 1500 A/V weighed this morning and with 4 wheel drive and the Z71 package the total weight without me in it was 5900 lbs. ?Includes more that 3/4 tank of gas.

Harvey,

5900lbs without the driver is really heavy. The curb wt is supposed to be 5678lb, which includes a150lb driver. The truck has the extra wt for the Z71 stuff but I can't imagine it would be over 370lb (222+150). Did you have any cargo in the bed, the cab, the side compartments, wt distribution hitch.

This is really discouraging for the 1500 Z71 owners. The pay load may be less than 1,000lbs, not much you can tow if you have passengers and a heavy duty WD hitch.
 
Flix said:
5900lbs without the driver is really heavy. The curb wt is supposed to be 5678lb, which includes a150lb driver.

Took my 1500 AV 2WD to a Cat Scale after just filling up with a full tank of gas and came up with these numbers:

Steer Axle: 3100 lbs
Drive Axle : 2680 lbs

Gross Weight : 5780lbs

I usally don't travel with a full tank of gas which will reduce this weight a little bit and give me a pretty good cargo capacity. I will try and take my trailer to a scale this weekend when we go out camping and loaded up to see how closs we really are with hitch, tongue, and family.

Steve
 
My AV weighed in at 6200 #'s this past weekend - the tank was on E - the bed was empty except for the rubber mat and the GF & I were in the truck - take us out of the AV and it tipped in at 5860 #'s - this was on certified scales - I know the weight because we weighed in again and found out the AV had 1700 #'s of rock in the back :)

To me Chevy's curb weight seems light
 
Blueruck said:
To me Chevy's curb weight seems light

I've seen your photos Blue. I'm guessing that the weight difference is from all the mud that must be clinging in all the nooks and crannies of your undercarriage. >:D

Seriously, though, a few gallons of gas @ 6lbs per, a couple of pounds x4 for your larger tires, clinging mud, it all adds up. Differences in option packages may be a contributing factor also, such as bench vs buckets, sunroof, trailer hitch, running boards, etc.
 
Flix said:
Harvey,

5900lbs without the driver is really heavy. The curb wt is supposed to be 5678lb, which includes a150lb driver. The truck has the extra wt for the Z71 stuff but I can't imagine it would be over 370lb (222+150). Did you have any cargo in the bed, the cab, the side compartments, wt distribution hitch.

This is really discouraging for the 1500 Z71 owners. The pay load may be less than 1,000lbs, not much you can tow if you have passengers and a heavy duty WD hitch.


From the chevy website:

1500 2WD 5,487
1500 4x4 5,734
2500 4x4 6,793

I assume these are bare bones measurements, so if you add in a few accessories, it would easily top 6,000 on the 1500 and 7,000 on the 2500.

The AV is the heaviest SUV in the Chevy line up. The 1500 Suburban 4x4 checks in at only 5,123 according to the Chevy website.

The 1500 is a very capable vehicle but if you plan to do any serious hauling or towing, get the 2500 (it really is not much more expensive than the Z71). The gas mileage does suck but you can easily blow the extra bucks in aftermarket performance products.

 
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