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Longevity of Brake Lines

goudh

Full Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Vermont
Lost my brakes two weeks ago (not a good feeling).  Turns out two lines rusted through and rest were ready to go.  Very expensive repair on an item that should last more than 6 years.  Was told it was because of the winter driving conditions.  Having the Av in the winter should be an advantage.
 
I had the same BS from my Service Department.  I told them the salesman did not warn me that I could NOT drive my 4WD Avalanche in the winter! :E:  I think there should be a class action lawsuit.  GM will wait until someone is killed and then they sue, settle out of court - God Bless America!
 
For a few dollars more, they could have put stainless steel lines on all the Avalanches.  But they didn't do that!

One of the problems comes from the plastic skirt that goes around the rear wheel wells.  The line was ran on top of the frame rails - someplaces  behind the wiring harness.  There is no way to get a high pressure hose to clean that area everytime you wash the vehicle.  Over time, the dirt builds up and the lines corrode and rust through.  It doesn't even leave you a clean spot on the lines where you could put a compression fitting to do a temporary repair.

Behind the rear wheel, the lines is ran in a half box, following the contours of the frame mount for the spare tire.  The dirt gets on top of the mount and there is no way to get a high pressure hose up there to clean it at all with the spare tire and trailer hitch installed.

So the dirt sits up there until the frame rots and then it transfers the corrosion to the brake line and then it isn't long until it rots out also.

Just a bad design.

They made it really convenient for the person that puts the line on at the factory, before the body is put on.  But a real pain for the person that has to change it 6 years down the road.
 
goudh said:
Lost my brakes two weeks ago (not a good feeling).  Turns out two lines rusted through and rest were ready to go.  Very expensive repair on an item that should last more than 6 years.  Was told it was because of the winter driving conditions.  Having the Av in the winter should be an advantage.

If yo need new brake lines,  you may also want to check and replace transmission cooling lines.  I had a 6 year old Suburban where the transmission lines rusted and cost me $3000 fro rebuilt Transmission
 
GM has a major problem with brake line corrosion.  Yesterday my son was using my 04 Avalanche to haul some furniture and all of sudden the chimes and the brake warning light came when he pressed the brake pedal and the pedal went to the floor.  Fortunately, he wasn't on a downgrade or the "2 mile hill" and he slowly was able to bring the Avalanche to a stop.  Brake fluid was gushing out under the drivers door.

We had the Avalanche towed home and as you can see in the attached photos, the brake lines under the drivers door outside of the rail are completely rusted, and one finally let go.  Ditto for most of the brake lines going into the metal block inside the frame.

My 04 Avalanche has only 38916 on the clock.  We live in NE Pa. where there is a lot of salt and brine used on the roads in the winter.  Can't GM install brake lines (like stainless steel) that resist corrosion?  Someone could have been seriously hurt or killed by this sudden failure.

I will go after GM legally if I have to to have all rusted brake lines replaced at no cost to me.  I would ask fellow Avalanche enthusiast to take a look at their metal brakes lines asap, especially under the drivers door and if live in a northern state.  I wouldn't want to have this happen to anyone else.

I will also file an incident report on the NHTSA site.
:mad:
 

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Filing a complaint, filing a lawsuit on a company that is going into bankruptcy - is not going to repair a 2004 Avalanche - that has been out of warranty for several years.

It must be apparent that they knew that they could have used better materials, but they didn't to save themselves a couple of pennies.

Betch, moan, whine and complain - but a brake line rusting out is all a fact of life when you live in Pennsylvania.

The main point where the line rusts out is behind the skirt, at the rear wheel - where it bends and goes around the frame towards the gas tank to the rear differential.

Most mechanic's will change all the lines at the same time, due to the fact that you cannot replace just one when they are all rusted out.

The main cause is because they mount the brake lines on top of the frame rails in a place that is not accessible to a high pressure wash hose when you are at the car wash.

Even if you could get at them, the stupid running boards are usually in the way!

Save yourself a lot of grief and take it to a garage and pay for the repairs yourself and forget about the law suit.  Any sensible lawyer will tell you that you will spend 3 times as much on his fee's as what you will ever recover.

When my line blew, I was in the apex of a S curve on the side of a hill, 25 miles from the nearest garage, in the middle of Clear Creek State Park in Pennsylvania and I had to drive it home - 40 miles with no brakes.

Not something that you could do in Pennsylvania where the elevation goes between 2500 and 1200 feet in elevation.

It took almost 4 hours of back roads driving to get it home without killing anyone and it took 8 hours to change the rear line.

I replaced mine with a plastic coated line from NAPA that is claimed to last longer than the regular steel line!  Cost was about $2 a foot for a 25 foot line.
 
The last time I had a poblem with brakes lines rotting out was almost 30 years ago !!! I just assumed they were stainless these days. I guess one more thing I have to look at now  :mad:
 
That is strange mine is a 03 and I'm in the rust belt also. Mine has no sign of rust like that and I have twice the mileage.
 
My rear driveshaft looks like it came from the Titanic wreck :E:
 
Monte Carlo Man said:
Betch, moan, whine and complain - but a brake line rusting out is all a fact of life when you live in Pennsylvania.

I have driven in New England all my life, I have (non GM) cars that I bought new that are now 18 years old and I have never had to replace a brake line.  Not to mention I have never owned a (non GM) vehicle that had a frame that looked like it was from a junkyard after it was a year old.

The corners being cut at GM are inexcusable.  Period.    :B:  :kidding:
 
.. and by the way I would completely agree.  Drop a dime to the NTSB on it.  Just wait until the taxpayers see how they are building things when they start covering warranty claims.
 
Warning Avalanche owners - check your brake lines for rusting.

I recently experienced sudden and total brake failure on my 04 Avalanche with 38,916 miles on the clock.  Fortunately it happened on a quiet and pretty level residential street at low speed.  Had I been on the highway, towing and on a downgrade I may not be writing this.

The cause was burst metal brake line that rusted out in the area under the driver's door, running outside of the frame rail behind the left front wheel well.  There are 4 brake lines running together in this area.  This is where all the winter muck sprays up into and accumulates.  Four lines were totally rotted (Service Manager's words) not only there but elsewhere and to the point nothing was safe or salvable.  All lines were replaced along with the rotted out rear backing plates.

Attached photos shows rotted backing plates and sections of the brakes lines that rusted badly.

I believe this problem affects not only the Avalanche but Silverado and GMC trucks built on a similar frame.  I would ask all owners, for their own safety, to take a look at their brake lines asap - especially in the area under the drivers door outside of the frame.  If they look anything like mine do you are heading into a world of trouble.  I believe GM has a serious problem here, especially for those who lived in the snow belt states and Canada.

Total cost for the dealer to replace my brakes lines, backing plates and a rusted caliper was $1383.42 and so far no assistance from GM.  BTW, I have heard some say not to worry about the rear backing plates rusting away but consider they are there to protect the calipers and the emergency braking system.  Unfortunately, they are not easy to change.

Be safe everyone.
 

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I had the exact same problem this weekend.  I am so disappointed that the brakes failed.  It is awful.  My son was in the back of the car.  I thank the Lord above that I wasn't driving on the highway.

Can someone recommend a good stainless steel replacement?  I googled for a replacement and I couldn't find a goodridge for a 2003 z71 1500 1/2 ton.  Any help or brand recommendation will be appreciated.  Doesn't have to a Good Ridge. 

Thanks!

Avy_Fluke
 
Dunno about stainless steel brands, but a week after my Avalanche brake lines burst, my son's 99 Buick LaSabre burst a rear brake line that rusted out.  Like I said, GM has a problem here.

We replaced all of the rear lines in his Buick with teflon coated brake lines.  Bought straight stock in the local Advance Auto (comes in various lengths), we already have a brake line bender, flairing tool and pipe cutter.

The teflon coated brake lines are black and are only slightly more expensive than the standard steel lines.

Hope this helps.

 
For those of you who have replaced your lines, did you buy pre-made, pre-bent lines from GM or can you get a standard coil and standard fittings from a local parts store and bend them up yourself?  I'd like to use good Poly-armour line and only do this once, but I'm a bit paranoid that there is some unique fitting in the system that I won't be able to duplicate.
 
You can buy pre-bent brake lines at the dealer but I have found not all lines are carried in stock.  Obviously for a line with many bends in it buying it already pre-shaped is the way to go. 

For the do-it-yourselfer, you buy straight brake line stock.  Comes in various lengths with both ends flared, but more often than not, you will need to cut one end off to create the correct length.  For this you will need a tubing cutter.  You can buy this at any auto supply, Lowes or hardware store.  Brake line components, fittings, etc. are all pretty common and available everywhere.  You won't run into anything you can't replace on your AV.

NOTE: there are two types of brake line flares (fittings);  1. Double flare and 2. a Ball flare.  GM uses both types.  You won't know what type until you unscrew the end of the line.  They CANNOT be interchanged.  Either way, you need a special flaring tool to create the required type of flare on the cut end of the brake line.  Remember to slide the fitting on the line first! 

You buy the flaring tool in an auto supply store and while you are there get a brake line bender - one that accommodates various diameter brake lines.  They are not expensive and ensure you don't crush the brake line when making a tight bend in it.

Before doing any actual work, practice cutting, flaring and bending some brake line stock.  Examine your flare under a magnifying glass to ensure there are no cracks in the flair.  Flaring is not difficult, just takes a little practice.

If you going to join two ends of a brake line together (e.g. old to new or new to new) you will need fittings to join the flared end to.  Get the type that matches the flare type (Double or Ball) and have extras.

Once the new lines are in place, double check the tightness of all fittings (use a flare nut open end wrench for this), ensure the lines are not near anything that moves, gets hot or they are not hanging down where something could snag one.  Then bleed the lines and check for leaks.

There are some great articles on installing brake lines, and flaring - just Google brake line flaring.

Hope this helps.  Good luck.

PS.  Installing brake lines is not a hard or technically difficult job, but it somewhat time consuming, it's a dirty job, and can be a back breaker if you have to do it in your driveway.
 
I checked mine on my 04 (I live in the salt belt) and they still look new.  Could it be something in the carwash undercarriage wash or something?  Were these vehicles bought new (a Katrina thing maybe?)  It just seems weird that only some people are experiencing this, unless GM realized there was an issue and quietly made a design change...
 
I'll throw my hat into the brake ring as well. I have an '03 with 114,000km (about 68,000miles). This is the second time I've had to replace all my entire brake lines.

I lost the rear brakes 4 months ago (for the second time). $800 Cdn to fix. The dealer said I will have to get the front ones done by next year. Well "next year" went by in 4 months. We were rushing to the hospital yesterday to bring in the mother in law who had fallen and broke her wrist. Brakes went right to the floor trying to stop to get on the highway. Dropped them off at the hospital and made it to the dealer with just a little bit of brake power left. A risky move driving through town at the end of the month on a Friday afternoon (heavy traffic). Anyway, dealer said all the 4 front lines need to be replaced. The two from the master cyl to the box under the driver, and the two that return back to the front. And its going to take 7-8 hrs at $83.00/hr shop wages....plus parts. There goes $1000  :E: :E: :E:

I was going to tackle this myself but decided "nope". I've a diy sorta guy but I'm gonna leave this to a guy who's done it before, in a warm garage with a vehicle lift. Its 5 Celcius here today (40 F). Not the warmest temp for driveway work, doing a job I've never done before.
Now why in Heaven's name did they run the front passenger brake line all the way to the front, under the radiator cowl and then track back to the wheel???? They could have gone half the distance by going from that box, over the other side of the frame and shoot to to the tire.

Automobile engineers are stupid.

Also when I popped the hood this morning this wire was dangling from the hood, broke off at the firewall. It wasn't like that yesterday.
Everything looks pretty good from the top looking down, but from underneath its a different story.
 

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My lines burst in the same place.  All 4 front had to be replaced from ABS Module box forward.  Cost $1384 (US).

What has been most surprising about this problem of brake lines rusted to the point of failure is the deafening silence from GM and the various consumer agencies that are supposed to protect us.

I have had 3 GM vehicles where the brake lines rusted through.  In the case of my 2004 Avalanche, I have reported the problem to the National Highway Traffic Association (NHTSA), Consumer Reports (2x), ConsumerAffairs.com (2X), the BBB, two local TV stations, and the Pa. Attorney General's Office.  Both GM and the BBB said the mileage on my 5 year old vehicle was to high (38,916) for consideration of "special customer assistance" or mediation.  No one else has responded other than the Pa. Attorney General who said they would look into it and Consumer Reports who said they would review my complaint for future reports.

But what adds insult to injury is our Government is more concerned about lead paint in toys and garlic presses.  Yes, garlic presses.  The US Consumer Product Safety Commission, on 9/16/09 issued a recall (release 09-343) for garlic presses because the blades can break during use, posing a laceration hazard to users.  Garlic presses versus bursting brake lines?  What's wrong with this picture?  How many people have to get killed or injured before the NHTSA realizes there is an epidemic of rusting brake lines out there?  But we seem more concerned with nasty garlic presses (that have injured no one) than an out of control 2 or 3 ton vehicle with a sudden loss of brakes.  Where is the justice?  Where are the priorities?   ???

I believe we are only seeing only the tip of the iceberg of rusting brake lines, especially in the snow belt states and Canada.  The NHTSA won't publish numbers (nor will GM).  So obtaining the actual nationwide numbers of brake line failures, and resulting accidents and injuries are hard to come by.  Not everyone enters complaints into the NHTSA, even if they know the NHTSA exists.  Insurance companies and repair shops provide no records.  Nevertheless, GM cars in particular, in the snow belt states, seem to be most susceptible to rusting/rotting/failing brake lines.  My repair shop tells me they are constantly replacing rusted brake lines.  The other evening the local news reported an accident (in Scranton Pa.) involving a late 90's Cadillac that ran up on a sidewalk.  Reason for crash, per the state police, was brake line failure.

So perhaps on the surface it might appear there are not enough "numbers" to justify an investigation and/or a class action suit.  But how many failures do you need?  No brake line or major brake component should fail for any reason on any vehicle.  And just think, there is a longer warranty on body rust through than there is on the most critical safety component in the vehicle - its brake lines.   ???

Consumer Reports, not to long ago, did a report on aging tires that could fail.  An important safety issue - because manufacturers use a convoluted dating codes and it is not easy to determine the age of a tire.  How about aging brake lines?  State inspections, where mandated, only measure rotor/brake pad/drum/shoe thickness.  Brake lines are NOT always part of the inspection.

If I had the resources, I would start a class action suit.  I can't believe the silence from the consumer and safety advocate organizations, plus the media, around this critical safety issue.  But not to worry, our garlic presses are now less likely to cause bodily injury than my 6000 lb Avalanche if/when it bursts another brake line.   :E:  :E:

If your AV is more than a couple of years old and you live where it snows, get under and inspect all the metal brake lines and do so every time your vehicle is serviced.   Rusty brake lines MUST be replaced.  No, it's not cheap but what's the alternative?  And don't expect help or acknowledgement from GM if your AV is out of warranty.

If it sounds like I'm on a crusade - well I am.  I can deal with bad windshield wiper modules, crappy intermediate steering shafts, broken tailgate handles, bad power window motors and the like.  I can't deal with suddenly no brakes and total ignorance on the part of GM.   :mad:

Thanks everyone with putting up with a long post.......
 
My lines look horribly rusted as well and am planning on replacing them, but im broke because of school.  If a line bursts, say on the front, is there a separation in the system so the rears will still have full pressure.  Or does a break cause a pressure drop across the whole system?

I have seen stainless steel braided flex lines that can replace the steel units on those hot rod shows that are on the weekends, but I have never been able to find them.  They would seem like a simple DIY replacement.
 
intensem1rider said:
My lines look horribly rusted as well and am planning on replacing them, but im broke because of school.  If a line bursts, say on the front, is there a separation in the system so the rears will still have full pressure.  Or does a break cause a pressure drop across the whole system?

I have seen stainless steel braided flex lines that can replace the steel units on those hot rod shows that are on the weekends, but I have never been able to find them.  They would seem like a simple DIY replacement.

Since circa 1970 vehicles sold in the US have been required to have dual, isolated braking systems.......normally front and rear.
 
For intensem1rider - watch the fluid levels in your master cylinder.  If one side of the reservoir loses fluid faster than the other or you need to add fluid often you are already leaking very slowly someplace.  But a very slow leak is not always a prelude to a brake line that is about to suddenly burst under pressure.

ITXI is correct.  Dual (independent front/back) braking systems are designed to provide some braking in the advent of a sudden loss of brake line pressure caused by a burst line.  Unfortunately, most of the vehicle's braking (60-70%) are handled by the front brakes.  Suddenly having only 30% or so of your braking power left, in a 6000 pound vehicle, exacerbated if you happen to be towing a few thousands pounds, puts you and others in serious jeopardy.

In my case one of the front lines burst and the pedal went to the floor.  Yes, there was a little braking, but jamming on the parking brake and dropping the tranny into 1st brought the beast to a slow safe stop faster than what braking power remained at the rear wheels.  The back brakes alone are not sufficient to stop you quickly - say on the interstate at 65 mph and all of a sudden you come up on slow or stopped traffic.

The scenario is a little better if the back brakes suddenly fail.  You still have more than half of your stopping power plus the parking brake (in my days it was called the emergency brake with good reason).  But stopping distances will be longer.  And if your towing and you suddenly lose your back brakes heaven knows what to expect.

Ran into a neighbor today I hadn't seen in several months.  He recently lost his brakes in his 10 year old Chevy S10 pickup.  Yep, rusted brake lines.  Had them all replaced to the tune of $1,500.

 
Can add me to the list. 29K on an 04 2500 and the brake lines look like crap. The one that is leaking had a wire harnes clipped to it with a plastic holder. It was leaking right where the wire was clipped to it right above the large clip that holds the brake lines in under the drivers door area. It looks like its the one that goes to the front passenger wheel. Looks like a hassle and a half to replace. The others dont look much better.. :E:
 
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