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Author Topic: strange noise  (Read 8421 times)
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bucklwi1
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« on: 06/13/08 07:14 PM »

OK, I have a strange noise coming from somewhere on my truck.  I did a search and have found lots of info...too much.  I was wondering if people could help me narrow it down before I go to the dealer tomorrow.

I think it may be the driver's side front wheel hub, but read where someone else thought the same thing and it turned out to be the rear differential.  So here is a description of the noise:

the noise is a whirring, grinding noise.  it's definitely rotational.  the noise is not present when the truck is running but parked. I don't think the noise is present while driving in reverse, it's definitely not noticeable, but that may be because the speed is so slow. 

The noise is noticeable while moving forward and is especially noticeable when I go over a bump or turn right (even a very slight right hand turn-like to follow a curve in the road).  The noise is not noticeable when turning left.

This is why I suspect the driver's side wheel hub.  Not even 3 weeks ago, my girlfriend's Mustang GT had the same problem.  It was a horrible grinding noise while driving and turning right.  When she turned left the noise would stop.  I popped the wheel and brakes off, spun the hub and it squeaked.  Replaced the bearing and the problem was solved.

I do have the GM certified 100K mile warranty so I will still have the dealer check it out, but wanted some other input.  Any other thoughts? 

also, twice this winter, the "service 4WD" message came on in my truck.  Both times it went away after parking and restarting hours later (I was driving to work and the message came on, then when I left work at the end of the day, the message was gone).  After the 2nd time I called the dealer but the message wasn't there anymore so they said to bring it down the next time it did this, but it hasn't happened since.
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« Reply #1 on: 06/13/08 08:18 PM »

Wheel bearing, let me add the ABS sensor is in the front hub that holds the bearing.
« Last Edit: 06/13/08 08:19 PM by MichiganSilver03 » Logged

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bucklwi1
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« Reply #2 on: 06/14/08 08:16 AM »

Wheel bearing, let me add the ABS sensor is in the front hub that holds the bearing.

The tech checked all the wheel bearings, drive shaft, etc.  the passenger side rear wheel was making noise when he pulled the caliper off.  When he wiggled the rotor and you could hear a squeaking noise.

He told me that it was caused by rust build up between the backing plate and rotor.  Then he added that it was a normal condition.  He told me he would clean up some of the rust as best he could and send me on my way.  I thought no charge, but $134.93, so it looks like they charged me 2 hours of labor even though the truck was only worked on for 1 hour.

On the drive home there was not much noticeable noise.  No noise when going over bumps, whereas before there was.  Not noticeable when cruising straight.  When following a curve in the road to the right, the noise was noticeable.  And when I got home and made a right hand turn into my driveway, the noise is still there.

The tech printed out TSB #02-05-26-002A "Scraping noise from rear of vehicle".  It says the noise is caused by the parking brake shoe contacting the drum hat rotor without the parking brake being applied.  It says to correct it, replace the parking shoe brake and install a new designed spring clip retainer.  But the service manager says my truck already has the "updated parking brake".

Could this just take a while for the rust to wear away and then the noise will go away?  I got a company car in April and have not driven the truck much at all since then, so rust build up is certainly possible.  Before the company car this was my daily driver and there was no noise at all. 

does anyone else have any other insight or had a similar problem?  The tech said it was not the differential, axles, driveshafts, or wheel bearings...they all looked fine to him. 
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« Reply #3 on: 06/14/08 09:28 AM »

When he wiggled the rotor and you could hear a squeaking noise.

A squeaking noise would be normal if the rotor was loose.  That's due to metal surfaces rubbing together.

Quote
He told me that it was caused by rust build up between the backing plate and rotor.  Then he added that it was a normal condition.

Rust would indeed build up if the AV sat for extended periods.  But, the resulting sound should be a "shushing" sound and not a squeak.  Rotors are bare metal and when subjected to moisture, they rust.  But, rust on opposing surfaces where one moves (the rotor)  and the other doesn't (the backing plate) is no match for a 6000 lb rolling vehicle.  The resulting sound should disappear after a few miles.

Quote
When following a curve in the road to the right, the noise was noticeable.  And when I got home and made a right hand turn into my driveway, the noise is still there.

That doesn't sound like anything brake related....unless you were applying the brake during the turns.

My $0.02.....
Check your trailing arms connections and grommets on the rear axle.  There have been reports on this board of strange noises that were hard to diagnose, hard to locate, resulting from worn trailing arm grommets.  They generally do not make noises when going straight on a level surface except when accelerating or decelerating (resulting in axle torque), but the minute you turn, hit bumps or other axle torqing movements, the noises occur.

Is it a Z71?  If so, check your CV joints on the front axles.  If loose or worn, they make noises particularly when turning.

There are a number of things that could cause these sounds....just wanted to contribute my thoughts.  Good luck Thumbs up!

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« Reply #4 on: 06/14/08 11:46 AM »

OK, the noise has not gotten better at all.  This is really annoying!

The noise is not there at idle.

The noise is not there when driving straight.

The noise is not there when turning left.

The noise IS there when turning right.

The noise is sometimes noticeable after going over a bump.

When the noise is there, it's there whether I am braking or not.

The noise is most noticeable after driving the truck for a while, almost like it has to "warm up".  I just came back from a 5 mile test drive and the noise was noticeable as outlined above.  When I got home I parked in the street (for about 3 minutes) so I could move my other car into the street.  Then when I started the truck back up and turned right into the driveway, there was no noise.  I even backed out and pulled in again a little faster and still no noise.

I am about to pull wheels off 1 at a time and look for problems.  I already tried spraying WD40 on the trailing arm grommets, which did not help.  I will check the CV joints.  Any other thoughts?  I'm going to search now.  I keep thinking front wheel hub assembly but it did sound like it was coming from the rear today when I was standing outside at the dealership.
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bucklwi1
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« Reply #5 on: 06/14/08 12:38 PM »

A squeaking noise would be normal if the rotor was loose.  That's due to metal surfaces rubbing together.

Rust would indeed build up if the AV sat for extended periods.  But, the resulting sound should be a "shushing" sound and not a squeak.  Rotors are bare metal and when subjected to moisture, they rust.  But, rust on opposing surfaces where one moves (the rotor)  and the other doesn't (the backing plate) is no match for a 6000 lb rolling vehicle.  The resulting sound should disappear after a few miles.

That doesn't sound like anything brake related....unless you were applying the brake during the turns.

My $0.02.....
Check your trailing arms connections and grommets on the rear axle.  There have been reports on this board of strange noises that were hard to diagnose, hard to locate, resulting from worn trailing arm grommets.  They generally do not make noises when going straight on a level surface except when accelerating or decelerating (resulting in axle torque), but the minute you turn, hit bumps or other axle torqing movements, the noises occur.

Is it a Z71?  If so, check your CV joints on the front axles.  If loose or worn, they make noises particularly when turning.

There are a number of things that could cause these sounds....just wanted to contribute my thoughts.  Good luck Thumbs up!





the front CV joints are fine and I also sprayed lubricant on the u-joints...no change
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bucklwi1
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« Reply #6 on: 06/14/08 05:05 PM »

i took the driver's side rear wheel off and then removed the caliper and rotor.  the parking break shoe needs to be replaced, has a few cracks but I don't think is the cause of the noise.

can I remove the emergency brake shoe and drivew the truck without any problem?  maybe I can remove it and see if the noise goes away?

here is a video of the sound.  there is a lot of wind noise so you have to listen carefully.  but if you listen closely you'll notice that there is no noise when backing up.  then when driving straight around my neighborhood, no noise.  I made all right turns and that is when you can here the noise.  I even swereved to the right while driving straight and you can still hear the noise.

any ideas?

It definitely sounds like it's originating in the rear.  (I was not facing the camera front to face the noise, just trying to limit the wind noise)

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i2.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/bucklwi1/100_0705.flv">
« Last Edit: 06/14/08 05:08 PM by bucklwi1 » Logged
bucklwi1
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« Reply #7 on: 06/14/08 05:47 PM »

and here are some pictures I took of the driver's side rear e-brake shoe, hub and differential.  I know the e-brake shoe is cracked on the sides at the top, but it looks OK in other spots.  could this be the problem?  there was nothin out of the ordinary on the inside of the rotor.





the differential looks clean to me, no leaks evident.



does the hub look bad or leaky?



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bucklwi1
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« Reply #8 on: 06/14/08 05:49 PM »

here is the video with sound of the noise:  (posted again in case people didn't see it earlier in the post)

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« Reply #9 on: 06/15/08 08:14 AM »

Thanks for the video.  That would be an irritating noise. 

Yes....you can remove the E-brakes and still drive it.  Why are your E-brake shoes so worn?  Do you use them a lot?  Have you forgotton to release them in the past?  I never, never used mine on my '02 but failed a state inspection as they would not hold.  They were worn completely.  The repair shop said they had been over-adjusted from the factory.  I have seen other similar posts indicating much the same thing. 

To me, it does sound like a brake noise of some kind.  Could be warped rotors or E-brake drum.  E-brake dragging on the internal drum or maybe the wear indicator on the pads.  If your E-brake shoes were worn and cracked as a result of over-adjustment, the drum could have over-heated and warped.  This may accound for the random "shushing" noise pattern.  Or, if your disc pads are worn and the wear indicator is close to the rotor, try bending it back to avoid contact with the rotor.  Remember, when turning the wheel, you get flex in the entire brake mating surfaces system.  The bigger the tire (ie. resistance to pavement), the more pronounced it becomes.  Temperature, particularly if brake dragging causes it, will promote the occurence.

Or, another possibility is early signs of a u-joint failure.

Hope this helps.... Thumbs up!
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« Reply #10 on: 06/15/08 09:00 AM »

sure does, I appreciate the help.

I checked the read brake pads when I had the truck apart and they are fine.  Not even close to the wear sensors.

The inside of the rotors, where the praking brake contacts, was fine too.  No scoring at all.  I do use the parking brake quite often, since my driveway is on an incline, so maybe that caused a problem.  When I used it as a daily driver I used the parking brake every night and it never caused any noise.  I got my company ar in Mid April, so the AV has sat for long stretches, and now when I used it after sitting for a while, the noise starts.

I searched the forums until 3AM last night and am going to check a long list of things and lube whatever I can today, in hopes the noise goes away.  If I find something that helps I will look into replacing that part tomorrow.  If nothing works, I am going to remove the parking brake tomorrow and see if that helps.

Do I need to remove the rear hub in order to remove the parking brake shoe?  or do I just unscrew the retaining tab and yank the shoe out?

are u-joints easy to replace? I've done brakes, shocks, etc, so in relation to those is it as easy?
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« Reply #11 on: 06/15/08 09:21 AM »


Do I need to remove the rear hub in order to remove the parking brake shoe?  or do I just unscrew the retaining tab and yank the shoe out?

are u-joints easy to replace? I've done brakes, shocks, etc, so in relation to those is it as easy?

Answer to first question.  Yes...that is, if you want to remove the shoe to eliminate it as the possible source of noise.

U-joints are difficult.  But, there are significant "does and don'ts" to be aware of.  The originals have a locking nylon lock that needs to be torched to free the needle bearing cup from the yoke.  You'll need a press or good C-clamp (that's what I have used for years).  There are critical alignment issues with matching the free needle bearing cup with the U-joint cross when installing.

There is a thread on this board that will walk you through it step-by-step.  Good luck.
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« Reply #12 on: 06/15/08 10:27 AM »

Instead of taking off the ebrake, too check, couldn't you just set it partially, one or two clicks and see if the sound changes.  If it doesn't change, probably not the ebrakes.  You know the first thought I had when listening to the video was back in the old days the speedo cable would make a noise like that...a quick shot of graphite usually solved the problem.  I have no idea if the AV speedo cable is electric or hard cable, but if it is the later, I would check that out.
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« Reply #13 on: 06/16/08 06:27 AM »

Instead of taking off the ebrake, too check, couldn't you just set it partially, one or two clicks and see if the sound changes.  If it doesn't change, probably not the ebrakes.  You know the first thought I had when listening to the video was back in the old days the speedo cable would make a noise like that...a quick shot of graphite usually solved the problem.  I have no idea if the AV speedo cable is electric or hard cable, but if it is the later, I would check that out.

I already have done that a few times, it makes no difference in the sound at all.

It's gotta be something in the rear wheels or rear brakes. 

It only makes the noise when I turn the truck to the right.  Every time the noise was present in that video clip was when the steering wheel was turned to the right.  Yesterday I took it out for another test drive and even turning the wheel to the right for 1 second would result in the noise being heard.  Going straight or left, no noise.

In an effort to eliminate other possible sources of the sound.  I checked the nerf bars and body mounts, lubed the steering shaft, and lubed the shock mounting points.  No improvement.

If you are outside the truck watching it go by and listening for the noise it is definitely coming from the rear of the truck.  The noise is a rotational noise that definitely matches the spin of the tires, and if you drive slow the noise is slow, if you drive fast the noise is fast.

I'm thinking that when I had the parking brake set for 2 weeks straight and the truck not moving, maybe the e-brake shoes, froze against the rotors.  Then the first time I drove the truck after sitting for 2 weeks (I don't remember the noise being there the 1st time or 2) the e-brakes were warping the rotors but I didn't realize, and now they are bad?

Is it possible to warp the rear rotors and not have the inside of the rotors (where the e-barke hits) be all torn up?

I don't want to start throwing money at parts for no reason, but I'm afraid to take it back to the dealer after already spending $135 for NOTHING!!
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« Reply #14 on: 06/16/08 04:19 PM »

hhmm..be interested in finding out what this is, but regardless, I think I would be asking the dealer for my $135 bucks back, for making a useless repair.  Tell him they need to experiment on their dime..lol...
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« Reply #15 on: 06/21/08 02:10 PM »

hhmm..be interested in finding out what this is, but regardless, I think I would be asking the dealer for my $135 bucks back, for making a useless repair.  Tell him they need to experiment on their dime..lol...

Short Version

I took it back to the dealer this AM.  When the tech put the passenger rear rotor back on he bent the backing plate and it was touching the rotor.

Today he bent it back into place and then re-assembled.  No more noise.  What a relief!!!


Summary

The truck was my daily driver but in April I got a company car so the truck sat unused for up to a week at a time.  This caused the rust to build up on the backing plate which originally caused the noise.  When I took it to the dealer the first time, he found the rust to be the cause of the noise, cleaned it up a bit and re-assembled.  However, the noise was now worse than ever.  The 2nd trip to the dealer revealed that, during the first visit, the tech bent the backing plate so that it was contacting the rotor.  He fixed this problem and now the truck is squeak free!
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« Reply #16 on: 06/21/08 02:19 PM »

Short Version

I took it back to the dealer this AM.  When the tech put the passenger rear rotor back on he bent the backing plate and it was touching the rotor.

Today he bent it back into place and then re-assembled.  No more noise.  What a relief!!!


Summary

The truck was my daily driver but in April I got a company car so the truck sat unused for up to a week at a time.  This caused the rust to build up on the backing plate which originally caused the noise.  When I took it to the dealer the first time, he found the rust to be the cause of the noise, cleaned it up a bit and re-assembled.  However, the noise was now worse than ever.  The 2nd trip to the dealer revealed that, during the first visit, the tech bent the backing plate so that it was contacting the rotor.  He fixed this problem and now the truck is squeak free!

Glad they got it fixed but did you get your $134.93 back or did they charge you again?  Cool!
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« Reply #17 on: 06/21/08 02:37 PM »

Glad they got it fixed but did you get your $134.93 back or did they charge you again?  Cool!

did not get my $135 back, but there was no charge for the follow up work
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« Reply #18 on: 06/21/08 02:56 PM »

glad they were able to track it down, things like that can drive you nuts
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« Reply #19 on: 08/05/08 05:27 PM »

I've read this topic with great interest.  My 02 Z71 makes the exact same noise as in the video!  It's driving me nuts.  I just replaced the rear pads/rotors/e-brake shoes last week but the noise is still there.  I'm going to have a look at the backing plates tomorrow to see if they are causing the noise. 

This forum is grrrreat.

J
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« Reply #20 on: 08/07/08 08:43 PM »

Ok, I just bought a 2005 Chevy Avalanche with 30,000 miles. When I bought it a week later I started hearing a loud popping noise when I turn the steering wheel. After I got it back the popping noise is still there but only when the truck is moving and i am turning the wheel. I have told my dealership and they keep telling me nothing is wrong. However I know there is.
The Dealership said nothing is wrong. The noise can be compared to a loud thud
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« Reply #21 on: 08/07/08 08:46 PM »

Ok, I just bought a 2005 Chevy Avalanche with 30,000 miles. When I bought it a week later I started hearing a loud popping noise when I turn the steering wheel. After I got it back the popping noise is still there but only when the truck is moving and i am turning the wheel. I have told my dealership and they keep telling me nothing is wrong. However I know there is.
The Dealership said nothing is wrong. The noise can be compared to a loud thud
They are wrong..  There is a whole thread about problems with the Intermediate shaft..
Click here for more info  Most have it repaired under warrenty

Hugz
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« Reply #22 on: 08/07/08 08:52 PM »

So I plan to take it back then But what exactly is the problem?
So I should try to get it fixed! It is under warranty till 89,000 miles! Help me!
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« Reply #23 on: 08/07/08 09:07 PM »

So I plan to take it back then But what exactly is the problem?
So I should try to get it fixed! It is under warranty till 89,000 miles! Help me!
Click the link above, it will explain everything.. And yes TAKE IT BACK...   There is a TSB on it, and that is also in the info linked above
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« Reply #24 on: 08/07/08 09:19 PM »

Thanks for the Help I just love my truck
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