Best bang for the buck

[MyBigToy]

Vortech supperchargers dont last long when the bearings go not if.. When its about another two thousand dollars to have them rebuilt. And when u blow all thar money for more power u might as well blow some more in a new trans and motor. Blowers are ticking time bombs on a stock bottum end.

I disagree with this sentiment. The stock LM7 bottom end has proven to be pretty much totally reliable on up to 10 lbs of boost.

 

[RedRocketZ28]

Vortech supperchargers dont last long when the bearings go not if.. When its about another two thousand dollars to have them rebuilt. And when u blow all thar money for more power u might as well blow some more in a new trans and motor. Blowers are ticking time bombs on a stock bottum end.

Tell that to the numerous guys running forced induction stock bottom end 5.3's and 6.0's.  The guy that tuned my Z28 has a buddy with a stock bottom end 5.3 in a Ford LTD with a 76mm turbo on it.  Makes over 800 rwhp and he beats the piss out of it.  Another guy has a 5.3 with 180k miles on it, untouched bottom end, twin 70mm turbos, running 25lbs of boost.  There are soooo many guys on LS1tech going the turbo route.  My Z28 for instance, has a junkyard 6.0 in it that had 103k miles on it.  I cleaned it up, slapped a turbo cam in it, my buddy built my turbo kit with a Harbor Freight welder, and I now have a car that puts down over 600 rwhp through a 4L80e and unlocked converter using a $300 76mm turbo.  Just ordered a bigger, better (Turbonetics) turbo for it for this year too .  Will be over 700 rwhp with ease.

If my Avalanche didn't have the junk 4L60e in it still, I would build a turbo kit for it.  If I still have it in the next two years, it will get a 4L80e swap and a turbo kit.  It's just too easy to make power with these motors going the F/I route.  An Avalanche on 7-8 lbs., even with the stock internals, would be an animal.

 

[Carpenter29]

The treads called best bang for buck not dumping seven grand if you plan on spending that kind of money best bet is buying a built create motor u cant tear those motors up they shut down before they get damaged.  Youll have a brand new motor that has 450 pluss na horse power. Stock bottom end on a 5.3 is rated to 400 hp.

 

[Carpenter29]

Ls3 525 na horse power creat engine 7,8000$ summit racing. Buy the time u spend $ on the supercharger you would be better off having bought that motor. Thats wht im saving for. O and it comes with a warranty

 

[RedRocketZ28]

The treads called best bang for buck not dumping seven grand if you plan on spending that kind of money best bet is buying a built create motor u cant tear those motors up they shut down before they get damaged.  Youll have a brand new motor that has 450 pluss na horse power. Stock bottom end on a 5.3 is rated to 400 hp.

Huh?  I suggest you do some research before you start spouting off false information.  For starters, your best bet is not buying a CRATE motor, especially something from Summit.  You can get built short blocks for less than 3 grand from a reputable speed shop.

Whoever told you the stock bottom end 5.3 is rated to 400 hp has no idea what they are talking about.  Did you completely ignore everything I posted above?  The early years LS motors (04 and below) can handle 650 rwhp all day long.  If the tune-up is good on it, they can take higher amounts than that before rods start bending.  The 05+ motors have stronger rods and pistons and people have made 1000 rwhp with them.  Hell, people have made 1000 rwhp with early year motors as well.

FWIW, I have about $8,000 in my total build for my Z28, which includes the price I paid for the car.  If something happens to my current motor, I go to the junkyard and buy another one for $500, and build a forged 370 from my current block and run the junkyard motor until my built one is done.  This route will still be probably $5,000 cheaper than your crate LS3 motor and be stronger to boot.  Those crate motors are STOCK motors anyway.

Not trying to be an ass but I have been around these motors for quite some time and know what they can and cannot do.  This thread got derailed when you stated the stock bottom end is a ticking time bomb with a blower. 

Here's a good thread for you to read...

http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1529749-9-sec-stock-short-block-lq4-full-size-4x4.html

We can relate here since it is in a full sized truck.

 

[MyBigToy]

The treads called best bang for buck not dumping seven grand if you plan on spending that kind of money best bet is buying a built create motor u cant tear those motors up they shut down before they get damaged.  Youll have a brand new motor that has 450 pluss na horse power. Stock bottom end on a 5.3 is rated to 400 hp.

I agree with RedRocket - you derailed the thread with the stock bottom end comment and we simply disagreed with your statement. Take it from people who know from experience; I'm conservatively pushing 450 hp and running 7# of boost. I've got 8+ years and 55k+ miles on my MP112 Magnacharger with exactly zero issues since it was bolted on. I gave $4500 for the blower new, and you can pick up low-mile used examples today for less than that. Line me up with a NA 450 hp motor Avalanche and I'll walk it off the line due to the huge torque advantage because of the blower. Oh and, by the way, my installation was covered the same as the factory warranty by Magnacharger.

Each person has to research and decide what they feel is the best route for them; I chose the Magnacharger because of the huge amount of torque available immediately off-idle. Low rpm torque is what these heavy pigs need to get them moving off the line.

 

[RedRocketZ28]

I would love to put a Maggie on mine.  Unfortunately, it's just not in the cards right now.

 

[Loggie]

Fellers  We all can be sidle here    because we all know the best bang for the buck is an~$400 nitrous oxide systems kit from NOS 

 

[MyBigToy]

Fellers  We all can be sidle here    because we all know the best bang for the buck is an~$400 nitrous oxide systems kit from NOS 

Which is a really good way to blow up an engine when you get greedy and keep upping the shot size! 

 

[Loggie]

Which is a really good way to blow up an engine when you get greedy and keep upping the shot size!  

yeah lol but thankfully I only blew up my transmission 

 

[Carpenter29]

Lol I would think a brand new 500 hp ls3 would be a better investment if your gonna spend that kinda money anyone can go buy a junkyard motor and get it stroked but its not a ls3 for 500$ Bust me all up if ya want but it makes since. And superchargers bearings do go out some sooner than others. Rebuilds arent cheap is all im sayin..
Had a vortec on my cobra mustang

 

[RedRocketZ28]

You realize there is nothing special about the LS3 right?  If I wanted to I could put the LS3/L92 heads and intake on my LQ4.

You are right though, a stroked junkyard motor is not an LS3.  A forged junkyard motor will handle a lot more power than an LS3.

 

[we_fly_high]

Some of the fastest ls trucks in the nation run on stock bottom end 5.3s and 6.0s. Most of them turbo a few nitrous.
Your argument about about supercharger bearings is invalid, technology has come a long way and if superchargers needed rebuilt as much as your hinting, no one would consider them an option anymore. Sure I would have one rebuilt if I bought a used blower but its the same with a turbo or refreshing a motor after you buy one.
I would go with a junkyard build any day, and more bang for the buck if you do all the work yourself.

Red, I've been hearing good things about those on3 turbos, and talk about bang/buck!

 

[RedRocketZ28]

Red, I've been hearing good things about those on3 turbos, and talk about bang/buck!

Yes sir, they certainly are.  I paid $320 shipped for mine and it laid down 606/570 on my LQ4 on 14 lbs through an unlocked converter.  The car got hot on the dyno and started pulling timing when we tried turning it up more.  Only downside of them is that the exhaust side is small.  It is something like 64.5 mm and the power was dropping off around 5600 rpm.  Only would have got worse the more I tried to push it.  The new turbo should be here next week and hitting 700+ will be no problem.  Hope my fuel system keeps up though, ha.

I may just have to throw the on3 on the Avalanche at some point.  They are a good match for a 5.3.  

 

[SamHouseIII]

http://slpcars.com/?page_id=1369

HP Cost money....how about the SLP Avalanche? 33K more to the base cost?

SLP 700HP Supercharged Avalanche 

 

[junkyarddog]

Just make sure the your cruising RPM is at least 500 above the stall of the converter, if not you'll have to adjust the rear ratio.

 

[Carpenter29]

And how much money u guys have invested into your turbo/supercharger setup?? Just curious?

 

[MyBigToy]

I already posted that I gave $4500 for the Magnacharger. Add another $1000 for the cam/install and another $1000 for the converter/install (bought used). I gave Loggie $225 or $250 for the HP Tuners. It's been a LONG time ago that I put the TOGs headers on but I think I gave $250 for them (again, used but brand new, reconditioned by TOG with the Titanium ceramic coating).

The look on some young pony car driver's face when I stay ahead of them from a stoplight..............................................


                             Priceless!!!!!!  

 

[Loggie]

I already posted that I gave $4500 for the Magnacharger. Add another $1000 for the cam/install and another $1000 for the converter/install (bought used). I gave Loggie $225 or $250 for the HP Tuners. It's been a LONG time ago that I put the TOGs headers on but I think I gave $250 for them (again, used but brand new, reconditioned by TOG with the Titanium ceramic coating).

The look on some young pony car driver's face when I stay ahead of them from a stoplight..............................................


                             Priceless!!!!!!  

that is a good feeling...well, at least it used to be    I miss my old AV

 

[RedRocketZ28]

And how much money u guys have invested into your turbo/supercharger setup?? Just curious?

I have MAYBE $8,000 into my entire build for my car, including the price of the car itself.  Not including all the parts I sold from the original blown LS1, T56 tranny, etc.  Mine was very budget oriented.

ON3 is now a sponsor on LS1tech and they apparently have a single turbo truck kit in the works.  Depending on quality and price, the Avy may be getting one next year .

 

[we_fly_high]

A low boost avalanche is very achievable on a small budget, less than a new motor and trans combo anyday. This avalanche isn't boosted yet but in parts ready to go on plus what's on the truck I have just over 7 grand for a decent setup including the cam and exhaust and trans work done. And I would run it against an ls3 anyday with confidence. Remember, this is all about bang for buck.

 

[speedysteveabz]

sorry for resurecting an ancient thread but im looking to squeeze a little bit more get up nd go from my 07 Avy, its totally standard at this point

Im used to much smaller performance cars and this is my first truck but obviously I understand basic physics and dont expect rapid performance from a 3 ton brick !
My main gripe is off the line performance and acceleration up to 60 after that im not too concerned and performance is adequate, I especially dislike what feels to me like an excessively slippy gear shift, its "normal" and have run a couple of other Avy's nd Suburbans of similar age and they basically all feel the same, the 6 spd 2013 was however noticably better but then so it should be 

I dont drive like an idiot ( most of the time ) but occasionally would like to "take off" with a smile on my face

It sounds to me based on what I've read here and a couple of other sites that the most cost effective route to give a decent "seat of the pants" improvement within a limited budget is

Corvette servo ( improves shift pressure and shift time 1-2 & 2-3 ) about $20 looks like a simple DIY process
Nelson postal tune ( PCM swap ) about $300
I'm sure a trq converter swap would also help massively ( did this to an old subaru WRX auto I used to own and it was a fantastic difference ) but thats a little extreme for a daily driver and more intrusive than I really want to be at this point.

An exhaust would also potentially help a little but im not looking for  any extra "sound" and cost wise the gains from this appear to be minimal

Would you guys agree ? is a shift kit ( around $50 ) really nessecary for the above ? it looks like a good bit more work for potentially no additional gain in my particular application ?

Id really appreciate any feedback

Thanks,
SS

 

[MyBigToy]

If you are looking for the off-the-line oomph, the first mod I would do is the converter. It makes a huge difference and as long as you buy a "tight" converter it drives basically like stock. A Yank TT series or a Circle D seem to be the consensus go-to choices for an inexpensive converter. A 3k tight stall would be a good choice if you are concerned about drivability. I've got a Yank TT2600 but it supposedly flashes more like 3k at my power level.

You should get a tuner or pcm tune to adjust the shift points and times to your liking. My preference would be a tuner so you can do it yourself. You can pick up a used Predator pretty cheap these days and should be able to do an acceptable job on shifting. A Vette servo is pretty cheap and not a bad idea.

 

[speedysteveabz]

Thanks for the response MyBigToy, when you say a "tight" converter I take it you mean it has a high level of fluid coupling during lower RPM than its actual lockup value ? so that it doesnt slip excessively until the lockup RPM is reached, thereby giving a normal level of drivability when not driving like a madman i.e. 1000-2000rpm normal cruising around or when the gas tank is on "empty" and your trying to get to the nearest station. ( the subaru I changed the TC on had I guess what would be called an open TC ) basically the car didnt move till you hit around 3500rpm then banged into drive and shot of like a scalded cat.. I really do not want that in a truck and would like to keep the ability to drive sedately in most cases..
Ive seen mention of using a TC out of a wrecked 6cylinder Trailblaser as a cost effective option is this viable or would the results be disapointing ?
How DIY is changing the TC on an AVY ? I have a driveway but the garage is too small to work on the truck inside, as Ive said Ive done this swap on a subaru but havent messed with the truck yet and of course everything is a good bit bigger and heavier to deal with, im gonna look around for a "how to" for TC replacement and see if its something I'm willing to try on my daily driver
Regarding programmers, im definately not an expert on this and have never personally used one, I did however have the ECU in the subaru postal remapped and know some of the theory behind engine fuel & ignition mapping & did the soldering of a new eprom into existing ECU myself so im not scared of messing with things I probably shouldnt..
I have heard good thing about Nelson performance and their postal maps ( you tell them your mods and make up a remap accordingly ) and some bad things about the limitations of DIY programmers
is the Predator you mentioned better than the rest and could have the same results as a legit job from the likes of Nelson ?

Thanks again for the feedback really appreciate it,

SS

 

[enoniam]

I ran a converter out of a 6 cylinder trailblazer before putting in my Circle D.  It was noticeably different than the original but I decided I wanted more.

As to whether changing it would be a DIY for you - I'm guessing it would be.