"brmiller Meets Dunes" - Estimates & Updates

[brmiller]

Thought I'd start a new topic for this saga rather than clutter up the cruise thread.

If you missed it, here's the refresher. Us Oregonians went to the dunes. I nosedived over one embankment and hit the other side at full tilt.

fender well (after removing tire obstruction)​	lo' and behold, I smooshed my bumper - whaaaahhhh​	bumper close up (I removed the foglamp assembly)​

Additionally, Chief supplied this "nice" annotated picture:

Well, I've been to three body shops today, and have some interesting information on the estimates.

• Two of the shops (one was my dealer's collision center) definitely expect frame damage. I don't know what Chief is referring to by "subframe" damage--no one used the term "subframe" and didn't respond when I asked if they thought there was "subframe damage".
• Two of the shops thought the impact bar (the actual metal bumper behind the cladding-colored bumper cover) was damaged and needed replacing.
• There was a little variance in some of the additional brackets that hold the impact bar in place; some shops thought they needed replacing, others didn't.

I know this is a big guessing game until they start taking it apart to see what they can find. But here's what I know I'm in for:

• $437.29 - bumper cover - the grey plastic cover that I've obviously cracked and twisted out of shape
• $81.45 - lower bumper cover brackets - there is one in the middlie which I folded, and one on each end that have been badly bent
• $367.32 - impact bar - if I need it; again, 2 out of 3 say yes
• $204.40 - impact bar mount brackets - these hold the impact bar onto the frame ends; only one shop thought I needed new ones, the others thought they could be repaired

That's about it for parts. On top of this is labor, obviously. The biggest wildcard is the frame labor. All the estimates came in with about 16 hours (combination of both repair/replacement and frame labor) though. Shop labor rates seem to run between $42 and $50 per hour, though. One of the shops has 8 hours for paint labor and another 8 for paint supplies (these add up to $575!), and I don't see what all has to be painted. Yeah, there will be some touch-up needed on the fenders, but not 16 hours worth.

Anyway, assuming 8-10 hours of frame labor, the estimates I got were $1447, $1720, and $2500. The latter $2500 estiamte is from the shop claiming all the impact bar components need to be replaced and are the same guys with 16 hours of paint labor and supplies. So their estimate may be high. Or they may be high. I was fairly impressed with the dealer coming in at $1720. Even if it's $2000 when all done, they weren't outrageous about it. The $1447 estimate is from a little shop out in the country 8 miles north of where I live that I have been referred to in the past by a friend.

What I need now is parts for cheaper than quoted. They all agreed on the parts cost, so it's obvious they get these out of a book and all get them from the same source. If anyone has any of the parts listed above or knows where I can get them cheaper than the prices listed, please let me know.

I'll update this as I get news and proceed on the repairs.

Brendan

 

[ColoradoAV]

Oh that's pretty sad to see . Sounds like that was quite an adventurous cruise. There was Chief straightening out his back bumper, brmiller "meeting the dunes," AvaLance getting stuck. Did anybody else have any interesting stories to report ? Nonetheless, I hope you all had a great time.

brmiller - good luck with your repair efforts. Those pics are sad to see

 

[RedAV]

<i>$81.45 - lower bumper cover brackets - there is one in the middlie which I folded, and one on each end that have been badly bent

$367.32 - impact bar - if I need it; again, 2 out of 3 say yes

$204.40 - impact bar mount brackets - these hold the impact bar onto the frame ends; only one shop thought I needed new ones, the others thought they could be repaired </i>

"EFF that" unless this is an insurance job.

I took a good look at mine when I installed my GM brushgard.

They would have to be severely damaged not to be straightened with a torch and hammer. Really, especially the mounts.

I would also replace the impact bar with a custom made bar out of more substantial materials. Again not out of the skill level of small welding and fabrication shop.

The first time one of mine gets damaged that is what I am going to do.

The plastic well there is always plastic welding unless it is torn (i.e., white edges). I have also used some excellent plastic bumper repair on similar items. You use it on the backside and it stays flexible.)

I think you are just going to have to buy that part. (Or repair it and bring it to Line-X for coating to cover the repairs.)

 

[pdxkevin]

...Did anybody else have any interesting stories to report ??

Sounds like we missed out on the adventure on Sunday. Saturday's half of the trip was a blast.

Brendan Have you considered going with a metal front bumper at this point? It might be a cheaper option. Worth searching the threads for the going deals. Just a thought.

 

[AvaLance]

Thought I'd start a new topic for this saga rather than clutter up the cruise thread.

If you missed it, here's the refresher. ?Us Oregonians went to the dunes. ?I nosedived over one embankment and hit the other side at full tilt.

fender well (after removing tire obstruction)​	lo' and behold, I smooshed my bumper - whaaaahhhh​	bumper close up (I removed the foglamp assembly)​

Additionally, Chief supplied this "nice" annotated picture:

Well, I've been to three body shops today, and have some interesting information on the estimates.

• Two of the shops (one was my dealer's collision center) definitely expect frame damage. ?I don't know what Chief is referring to by "subframe" damage--no one used the term "subframe" and didn't respond when I asked if they thought there was "subframe damage".
• Two of the shops thought the impact bar (the actual metal bumper behind the cladding-colored bumper cover) was damaged and needed replacing.
• There was a little variance in some of the additional brackets that hold the impact bar in place; some shops thought they needed replacing, others didn't.

I know this is a big guessing game until they start taking it apart to see what they can find. ?But here's what I know I'm in for:

• $437.29 - bumper cover - the grey plastic cover that I've obviously cracked and twisted out of shape
• $81.45 - lower bumper cover brackets - there is one in the middlie which I folded, and one on each end that have been badly bent
• $367.32 - impact bar - if I need it; again, 2 out of 3 say yes
• $204.40 - impact bar mount brackets - these hold the impact bar onto the frame ends; only one shop thought I needed new ones, the others thought they could be repaired

That's about it for parts. ?On top of this is labor, obviously. ?The biggest wildcard is the frame labor. ?All the estimates came in with about 16 hours (combination of both repair/replacement and frame labor) though. ?Shop labor rates seem to run between $42 and $50 per hour, though. ?One of the shops has 8 hours for paint labor and another 8 for paint supplies (these add up to $575!), and I don't see what all has to be painted. ?Yeah, there will be some touch-up needed on the fenders, but not 16 hours worth.

Anyway, assuming 8-10 hours of frame labor, the estimates I got were $1447, $1720, and $2500. ?The latter $2500 estiamte is from the shop claiming all the impact bar components need to be replaced and are the same guys with 16 hours of paint labor and supplies. ?So their estimate may be high. ?Or they may be high. ?I was fairly impressed with the dealer coming in at $1720. ?Even if it's $2000 when all done, they weren't outrageous about it. ?The $1447 estimate is from a little shop out in the country 8 miles north of where I live that I have been referred to in the past by a friend.

What I need now is parts for cheaper than quoted. ?They all agreed on the parts cost, so it's obvious they get these out of a book and all get them from the same source. ?If anyone has any of the parts listed above or knows where I can get them cheaper than the prices listed, please let me know.

I'll update this as I get news and proceed on the repairs.

Brendan

And fun at the beach $Priceless

 

[hultzger]

Brendan,
I hope it was fun up to that point!

I guess the one good thing is that you're in Oregon instead of California. Labor for my repair was $66/hr some places are up to $80

Rick

 

[flynhigh]

OMG Hultzger is still around!

Where have you been hiding man?

 

[ddrewry]

Brendan
I'm a little surprise your airbag didn't deploy

 

[Chasman]

I'll bet you were having fun up till then, Brendon!
I wonder if a brush guard would have saved you some repair dollars in this case?

 

[Beaverton]

Seems to me that any damage saved by a brush guard would be made up by having to replace/repair the brush guard itself. Additionally, the brush guard might transfer damage to other points underneath the skin (i.e. to wherever it attaches to the frame)

 

[hultzger]

OMG ?Hultzger is still around!

Where have you been hiding man?

I've mostly been lurking over in the a/v section watching the soap opera of bass enclosures

I usually receive the messages via e-mail since the firewall at work doesn't let me onto CAFCNA (not work related ya know). At night I'm frankly too tired, playing with the kids or too tired to reply.

 

[brmiller]

I guess the one good thing is that you're in Oregon instead of California. Labor for my repair was $66/hr some places are up to $80

LOL! I told my wife of your comment, and she said we need to have a banner made: "Good thing we're not in California!" I refer you to the anti-California subthread. I love this billboard. (We moved from Redwood City three years ago.)

Brendan
I'm a little surprise your airbag didn't deploy

In retrospect, yeah, me too. I estimate my speed at 10-20mph on impact. I don't think it was higher--maybe 25? Anyway, I got out to inspect, and Hillary asked "Did your airbag deploy?" I never thought about it. "Well no, I guess not." Lucky me, both from the expense of replacing, the bruising, and the sheer freakazoid I would have become if that thing had gone off in my face.

I wonder if a brush guard would have saved you some repair dollars in this case?

I thought about this for some time. I don't really thing so. The GM brush guard would have had its plastic/cladding covering torn up instead, just like my bumper did. I still might have had cracked/split bumper damage complete with sheered off mounting pins, plastic clips, etc. And the brush guard would have still transferred any unabsorbed energy to the frame which still would have upturned the fenders, hood, and nose. That's all assuming that whatever brush guard was on there would have even hit the sand. I didn't damage my headlights or grill/crossbar piece, so any brush guard that high (like the GM one) wouldn't have had much effect.

It seems to me that a lower guard like the WAAG frontrunner would also have had little damange-minimizing effect, as it would have likely bent (easily repairable I suppose), but the sand would still have put pressure on the fog lights and lower bumper cover (impact bar), resulting in similar loss.

The only front incarnation I could think of that might have changed matters was Blueruck's all-metal replacement bumper. But that would not have gave at all (like my bumper components did), all the energy would have been transferred to the frame. And then, would my frame damage be more extensive? I dunno. If anyone has any other theories on bulletproof front-end collision damage avoidance, I'd love to hear them.

It looks like I'm leaning toward filing an insurance claim on this one (my deductible is only $250), so I may not need "cheap parts" after all. Does anyone have any advice on at-fault insurance claims when it's a $250 vs. $2000 choice? My insurance company is Amica (no one's heard of them so far), and I've never filed a claim, nor do I have any points/tickets/accidents on my record.

Brendan

 

[hultzger]

LOL! ?I told my wife of your comment, and she said we need to have a banner made: "Good thing we're not in California!" ?I refer you to the anti-California subthread. ?I love this billboard. ?(We moved from Redwood City three years ago.)

Brendan

Thanks for the link, I missed that thread the first time some it is hillarious! My dad and stepmom were Californicators for 5 years in the mid '90s. Stepmom had get out of Grants Pass because Nordstroms and Pottery Barn were absent and Portland and Sac/SF were too far a shoplifting trip

The SF peninsula is outragously priced (I grew up in Foster City/San Mateo). Things are better out here in Contra Costa (Not Salem better). I'm like flynhigh, if the job wasn't so good(the inlaws actually are very good to) we wouldn't look back, may come and visit now and then. BTW, hows the job market in Salem

 

[brmiller]

BTW, hows the job market in Salem

Not too great for what I do. State government is biggest employer. But Mrs. still works, so we're making the mortgage and Av payment.

Brendan

 

[brmiller]

Finally got my camera out with me one of the many times I crawled under this thing to inspect damage with various estimater/adjuster people...

Uhhh... It's not supposed to look like this, right?​

Oh yeah, and did I mention that it's developed a strange creak in the rear when I back up, or start out from a stop?

And so it goes...

Brendan

 

[AvaLance]

OMG you mist a spot I still see some sand man I did not realize it did that much damage ouch did you find out about your sub fram?

 

[brmiller]

Lance, I have sand everywhere. The frame rails are still packed full of sand in places. I think I need to re-check my skid plates too--they are not bent, but they may be "platters o' sand".

But yeah, I really jacked things on that bumper. I don't know anymore about frame damage. Apparently, there is no "sub-frame" -- the collision people don't talk of that -- only real frame damage, of which I undoubtedly have some. They finally decided to just take it one step at a time: Write down everything they see that's busted, take it all off, write down everything they now see that's busted with the first layer peeled back, remove it, write down everything they see now.... My truck will come apart like an onion. I'm hoping I'm being overly dramatic, and that it isn't that bad. But they have to start tearing it apart to see.

That won't happen until next week or the week after. I actually have a committment for this weekend for which we need the truck, so wish me luck, as we drive 120 miles back out to the coast with it in this condition!

Brendan

 

[steelheadchaser]

Sub-frames are found on unibody vehicles. The Avalanche has a full frame. Had your vehicle been of unibody constuction, the sheet metal fit at the door/clip junction would be indicative of possible subframe damage.

 

[brmiller]

Thanks for explaining that, Steel. That makes sense. I'm not pointing fingers, but it was Chief that brought up the possibility of subframe damage. When I asked the collision people about this, they kind of ignored my comment, and said "There might be frame damage." I knew the Av was a full frame vehicle; I just didn't know that full frames and subframes were mutually exclusive and that subframes belonged to the domain of unibody construction.

Thanks again for the education.

Brendan

 

[Alaska_AV.]

Steel is correct about the frame/uni-body. But Sub sections of the frame can be correct also. The front and rear sections "i think' are hydro formed. The center section is stamped like most of the truck frames of the last century. Hydro formed and boxed in, the front is extremely strong. where it mates with the softer center box section, just below the foot well area. At the firewall body mount. That is most likely where the frame became Bent. Or else the fender would also be very distorted, if much more toward the front. The look under your bumper is great. All them bent parts did their job. Cushioning the blow of 6000 pounds smacking the ground. Could have been worse.

Paint time also includes parts you cant see. What has to be painted is a judgment call. The paint and materials used to fix the truck is charged a a flat rate based on paint time. 20+ bucks per paint hour. 8 hours to paint + 8 hours x $21 = $168 to pay for paint, clear, masking, car bag, buffer pads, glaze/polish, undercoating and on. Don't for get $5 Has-Mat disposal fee. oh ya add .5 hours per paint hour for clear coating. Add for new Alignment $$$$$ I paid 4 one on my AV. Paint time can also reflect having to blend the color of the new fender into the door and hood. If your lucky they will fix all the rock chips across the front of the hood. If your concerned about the new noise in the back, have insurance cover your butt.
later

Well I need a fresh beer , so much for the Quick reply box

 

[brmiller]

The center section is stamped like most of the truck frames of the last century. Hydro formed and boxed in, the front is extremely strong. where it mates with the softer center box section, just below the foot well area. At the firewall body mount. That is most likely where the frame became Bent. Or else the fender would also be very distorted, if much more toward the front.

I thought so as well. Since the fenders don't seem bent at all (the did slide a bit on their mounting bolts which can be seen under the hood), it seems likely that the entire front end is tipped back toward the roof, with a point of rotation somewhere between the fender and the front doors somewhere from bottom to top. The collision guys have surmised this as well.

The look under your bumper is great. All them bent parts did their job. Cushioning the blow of 6000 pounds smacking the ground. Could have been worse.

Yeah, I thought this too. Again, I don't know exactly how fast I was going, but I am impressed that I don't have a wrinkled hood, bent fenders, deployed airbags, etc. It seems that everything that could give way first did so. Hopefully the frame damage won't be too severe.

Paint time also includes parts you cant see. What has to be painted is a judgment call. The paint and materials used to fix the truck is charged a a flat rate based on paint time. 20+ bucks per paint hour. 8 hours to paint + 8 hours x $21 = $168 to pay for paint, clear, masking, car bag, buffer pads, glaze/polish, undercoating and on. Don't for get $5 Has-Mat disposal fee. oh ya add .5 hours per paint hour for clear coating.

Yeah, I called back one of the body shops to ask about all the paint hours. It does add up. That particular guy had 4 hours to paint the bumper cover and when I told him it already came in the grey plastic cladding color, he looked it up again. Sure enough--there was a note that said something like "Non-WBH models do not need bumper paint." Hooray for pre-molded plastic. (Hey! Should I get an '03 charcoal bumper? )

If your lucky they will fix all the rock chips across the front of the hood.

When I talked to the guy at the Collision Center at my dealer, they said that if it's an insurance job, they'd do all the paint real good so I didn't have any more problems down the road.

If your concerned about the new noise in the back, have insurance cover your butt.

Yeah, I could use some advice here. My insurance people and collision repair people have been really helpful so far, and I don't feel that I'm going to get screwed, but I'm really worried about this groaning in the rear. It's getting worse each time I drive it. Obviously, stuff that's wrong when I bring it in can get fixed, but what about 6 months after the claim and something new shows up? How can I be certain that it is or is not part of this "accident"? How do I get them to cover my butt in the future?

I also think my rubber mat scratched the bed upon impact! This sounds almost preposterous, I know, but I have huge scratches where paint is missing and it's all roughed up under my mat. I took the mat out to wash it and to wash the sand out from under it, and I saw all these scratches. The only thing I can surmise is that the weight of the spare tires, shovels, cribbing, and other supplies in my bed somehow managed to scratch the bed either through the mat or by dragging the mat across the bed with that weight on it. Thoughts? Needless to say, it wasn't like that before my "incident", so I'm gonna blame it on the collision.

Brendan

 

[brmiller]

Got the bumper off so the insurance adjuster good get a better look at what else is damaged behind the bumper. The insurance adjuster also completed his estimate to the tune of $2273.23. I went by to take some pictures of my own. Pretty sad looking. But I know it will be fixed soon. They're going to repaint both fenders, the hood, the driver's side door, and the bed. So the paint costs are what drove up the cost.

Check out the link in my sig for the latest update and pictures.

Brendan

 

[flynhigh]

Looks like things are moving for you Brendan, before long you will be ready to lead the way instead of Chief

 

[Alaska_AV.]

Congrats on getting the bed painted included Now get them to spray in a bed coating Just keep whining about the whine the back end is making, They'll do something about the rear end. Just get it on record, with a provision, before you sign-off on the auto claim.
I hope your neck and back is ok from the jarring you took. Wait at least a year before signing off on any medical claim.

I'm no lawyer, I just work in the back

 

[brmiller]

Good advice, Alaska... You know, I never had any back/neck problem from this. I think it was because as soon as I saw what I was plunging into I was braking and bracing myself on the steering wheel and floor. So I came out okay.

No, I'm not signing anything until I'm sure it's all done for. Sadly, I could not reproduce the rear-end groan on my way to take it in. But it's there. Hopefully they'll hear it when they move it around on the lot.

I'm still on the fence on this bed coating thing. At first, I thought it was a great idea when it came up in the other forum. Then I decided that even though it's a bit of work, I like the bed being blue (body color), and I can clean it up easy enough. Now that I have scratching, I'm really nervous that it may happen again when no insurance claim can "make it better" and then I'll be looking at problems long-term. Oh well. I guess I can always wait until problems arise, and then get it coated.

BTW, I updated my "Dune Damage" page (red link below in sig) with a picture of the scratches in the bed. It's a hard picture to see, since I just washed it, and it was all shiny-looking. But in the middle of the picture, you can see a bunch of white "streaks"--those are scratches--some fairly deep.

Brendan