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Fuel Additives

...and it brings up the point...I keep my Avy clean, I don't fill the tank when the gas truck is there (all that stirred sediment) check my tire air and have the low restriction intake (UPD) and exhaust (Corsa) so...my mileage for my 2002 Avalanche Z71 driven mostly city and rarely in 4WD (2 wheel Hi) got about 12MPG in the city when brand new...I am the original owner...when I added the UPD my mileage stayed at 12MPG...when I added the Corsa exhaust, it zoomed to 12MPG...I have tried the Lucas cleaner/lubricant for fuel injectors and stayed at 12MPG...
I am not heavy on the go pedal and I try to drive properly but I wanna have fun (the reason for the UPD and Corsa! )
I even use Mobil 1 and...12MPG...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Any thoughts???

With large trucks (like the Av), it's hard to get good mileage in true city driving. The biggest issue is the stop and go nature. Sitting at a stop light is 0 mpg. During accel, you're likely to get between 2-6 mpg until you ease off the accelerator. That means that during city driving, you need to be able to hold speed through a few lights just to average 12 mpg. So if you're driving in mostly stop-n-go traffic, you should feel lucky to get the 12 mpg you're getting!

The other thing to remember is that more power usuallydoes not equate to better mileage. In most cases, more power usually means you burn more fuel. This is not a 100% rule, and some small things can definitely help the mileage and the power under a specific set of conditions. Some small things can give a boost because they're considered expensive for an OEM to include compared to another product (K&N vs Paper filter is a perfect example), but most mods will reduce vehicle performance under another driving condition. OEM's spend a lot of time and money on designing a vehicle and engine that already gets the best average fuel economy and performance that they can get under every driving condition. There's this little thing called CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) that penalizes them heavily if they don't. Where their tuning can often be improved on is due to the fact that they have to optimize their tuning to work well under ALL conditions - most of which normal drivers won't see.

When I'm working on fuel pump modules, we have specific testing that is performed in northern Minnesota in winter - it was -38 in International Falls while I was up there a few weeks back. We test during the spring in Colorado - it was -20 at 12,000 ft in Loveland Pass and less than 2 hours later, +80 in Denver at 5000 ft on the same tank of gas last year. We test in the summer in the desert southwest - I saw +130 in Death Valley during a trip 3 years ago. Needless to say, an engine calibration has to take into account all of these conditions. A normal driver / modder does not. The penalty for having a vehicle die during so-called normal driving can be extreme if for example, someone ends up getting maimed or killed because they got out of their car and got hit by a passing car when they ran out of gas, while the gas gauge still reads 1/4 tank. Granted, this thread isn't about fuel gauges, but the same principle applies.

A specific performance tune can definitely improve a vehicles performance in specific climate more than the so-called "vanilla" calibration GM uses. The performance mod usually isn't worried about these extremes of environment, and quite frequently, won't perform well under all driving conditions. How many threads are there on this board where people complain that the same mod doesn't work well for their vehicle, or it doesn't seem to work as well in winter? That's the reason for it folks. GM's vanilla calibation isn't really vanilla, it's kinda more like Neopolitan - it has a flavor that works well for everyone.
;D

As a sign in my office states:

DESIGN DEPARTMENT

We can make it
CHEAPER
FASTER
BETTER


Pick Only 2​
 
Personally, I've found that I get the best results from STP Complete Fuel System Cleaner (the silver bottle) for keeping my fuel system clean and injectors firing the way they should. It also doesn't stress the rubber components (o-rings in the quick connects, injectors, module, etc.) too much from the testing I've done. There are one or two cleaners that are very aggressive in cleaning the system out, but can have adverse effects on some of the rubber components. Since we test at environmental extremes, it most likely will not be an issue for normal use, but when I see good results at the extremes, I feel safe in normal use.

It all goes back to the risk / reward calculation for engineers. Success gets you a nice little placque. Failure can mean things like the space shuttle or the hindenburg. So naturally, we don't take too many risks... ;)
 
Listen guys, Get 2 cans of Berrymans B12 to a full tank of gas, do this every 6-8K miles. You will notice the differance and will not be sorry!

Butch
 
Z66 BUTCH said:
Listen guys, Get 2 cans of Berrymans B12 to a full tank of gas, do this every 6-8K miles. You will notice the differance and will not be sorry!

Butch


Butch, you don't think the drying agents in the BerryMan's will harm the o-rings in the fuel system? sure 6-8M miles is not that offen, but over time?
i used it once, but i had a little spillage on the vehicle, and my hand. this brought the drying properties to my attention. for this reason i still believe in the Mystery Oil, or Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner.
i have proof these products work... i had problems with my Honda Passport a month ago. the dealer told me they came to the conclusion that my EGR valve was bad. also my intake could have had carbon build up that would require them to remove the intake manifold, and remove the build up manually. this would cost about $950. :7: :8: :E: after they took it off the intake was as smooth as a babies bottom. i think this would not have been the case if it were not for me adding the fuel additives, and intake cleaner for the throttle body.
 
PUNISHER said:
Butch, you don't think the drying agents in the BerryMan's will harm the o-rings in the fuel system? sure 6-8M miles is not that offen, but over time?
i used it once, but i had a little spillage on the vehicle, and my hand. this brought the drying properties to my attention. for this reason i still believe in the Mystery Oil, or Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner.
FWIW, gasoline itself and cleaners as well will dry out your skin. It's usually a good idea to wear gloves if you ever have to do any work that will cause you to get fuel on your hands as gas and most cleaners are carcinogens, and can be absorbed into your bloodstream through your skin. It's usually not an issue for filling up, but you don't want to be dunking your hands into an open gas tank.

Most cleaners will also dry out o-rings, but not all of them are as aggressive as others. Berryman's is really pretty much in the middle of the pack as far as how aggressive it is. Same with the Lucas product. Both should not give any issues when using them in your vehicle.

Mystery Oil is a concern to me because it contains a component that we've seen precipitate out and clog the fuel pump filter (the one inside the tank attached to the fuel pump, not the in-line filter) in the right set of conditions. You probably don't want to use it if you're going to be filling up with fuel that has Ethanol in it, and it's going to be really hot outside. We can't trace our field incidents to Mystery Oil specifically, but the component in it we know can be a problem.
 
UncleMiltie said:
PUNISHER said:
Butch, you don't think the drying agents in the BerryMan's will harm the o-rings in the fuel system? sure 6-8M miles is not that offen, but over time?
i used it once, but i had a little spillage on the vehicle, and my hand. this brought the drying properties to my attention. for this reason i still believe in the Mystery Oil, or Lucas Fuel Injector Cleaner.
FWIW, gasoline itself and cleaners as well will dry out your skin. It's usually a good idea to wear gloves if you ever have to do any work that will cause you to get fuel on your hands as gas and most cleaners are carcinogens, and can be absorbed into your bloodstream through your skin. It's usually not an issue for filling up, but you don't want to be dunking your hands into an open gas tank.

Most cleaners will also dry out o-rings, but not all of them are as aggressive as others. Berryman's is really pretty much in the middle of the pack as far as how aggressive it is. Same with the Lucas product. Both should not give any issues when using them in your vehicle.

Mystery Oil is a concern to me because it contains a component that we've seen precipitate out and clog the fuel pump filter (the one inside the tank attached to the fuel pump, not the in-line filter) in the right set of conditions. You probably don't want to use it if you're going to be filling up with fuel that has Ethanol in it, and it's going to be really hot outside. We can't trace our field incidents to Mystery Oil specifically, but the component in it we know can be a problem.

Thanks, I just know I have used it for years with good results!

Butch
 
Great thread. I was thinking about trying a fuel additive and was wondering which to use. All the great advice has made the decision easier.
Personally, I've found that I get the best results from STP Complete Fuel System Cleaner (the silver bottle)
Thanks.
 
A GM Document on "Top Tier" Gasoline.
---------------------------------------------------
GM Cocument #1631055:

"Info - Top Tier Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns) #04-06-04-047D - (Mar 17, 2005)

2005 and Prior All General Motors Passenger Cars and Trucks (U.S. Only)

2005 and All Prior Saturn Vehicles (U.S. Only)

2003-2005 HUMMER H2 (U.S. Only)

This bulletin is being revised to include additional gasoline brands that currently meet the Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-047C (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).

A new class of gasoline, called Top Tier Detergent Gasoline, is appearing at retail stations of some fuel marketers. This gasoline meets detergency standards developed by four automotive companies. A description of the concept and benefits of Top Tier is provided in the following question and answer section.

Gasoline Brands That Currently Meet Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards

As of February 23, 2005, the following gasoline brands meet the Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards:
  ? Chevron Chevron has markets in 29 states in the West, Southwest and South, as well as in Alaska and Hawaii. ALL grades of Chevron with Techron gasoline meet Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards.
  ? QuikTrip (not to be confused with Kwik Trip) QuikTrip operates convenience stores and travel centers in a number of metropolitan areas:
      - Tulsa, OK
      - Springfield, MO
      - Kansas City, MO and Kansas City, KS
      - Wichita, KS
      - Des Moines, IA
      - Omaha, NE
      - St. Louis, MO and St. Louis, IL
      - Atlanta, GA
      - Dallas-Ft. Worth, TX
      - Phoenix, AZ
      - Bartlesville, OK
      - Miami, OK
      - Vinita, OK
      - Columbia, MO
  ? Conoco has over 4,000 stations located in 33 states.
  ? Phillips 66 has locations in 32 states across the nation.
  ? 76 has over 2,700 stations located throughout the country.
  ? Shell Shell Oil Products has a network of nearly 7,000 branded gasoline stations in the Western United States. Shell Oil Company markets branded products through more than 10,000 stations in the Eastern and Southern United States.
  ? Entec Stations offer gasoline through stations located in the greater Montgomery, Alabama area.
  ? MFA Oil Company offers gasoline at "Break Time" convenience stores located throughout Missouri.

What is Top Tier Detergent Gasoline?

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced detergency. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards developed by four automotive companies that exceed the detergent requirements imposed by the EPA.

Where Can Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Be Purchased?

The Top Tier program began on May 3, 2004. Some fuel marketers have already joined and have introduced Top Tier Detergent Gasoline. This is a voluntary program and not all fuel marketers will offer this product. Once fuel marketers make public announcements, they will appear on a list of brands that meet the Top Tier standards.

Who developed Top Tier Detergent Gasoline standards?

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline standards were developed by four automotive companies: BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota.

Why was Top Tier Detergent Gasoline developed?

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline was developed to increase the level of detergent additive in gasoline. The EPA requires that all gasoline sold in the U.S. contain a detergent additive. However, the requirement is minimal and in many cases, is not sufficient to keep engines clean. In order to meet Top Tier Detergent Gasoline standards, a higher level of detergent is needed than what is required by the EPA. Also, Top Tier was developed to give fuel marketers the opportunity to differentiate their product.

Why did the four automotive companies join together to develop Top Tier?

All four corporations recognized the benefits to both the vehicle and the consumer. Also, joining together emphasized that low detergency is an issue of concern to several automotive companies.

What are the benefits of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline?

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner than gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" set by the EPA. Clean engines help provide optimal fuel economy and performance and reduced emissions. Also, use of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline will help reduce deposit related concerns.

Who should use Top Tier Detergent Gasoline?

All vehicles will benefit from using Top Tier Detergent Gasoline over gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" set by the EPA. Those vehicles that have experienced deposit related concerns may especially benefit from use of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline."
 
i notice a mineral like deposit build up when i use BP gas...  they have high detergent. 

these mystery lube slick50 stuff is different from what you are talking about right>?  we are talking fuel additive and injector cleaner,  not air intake or sythetic oil supplement ..
 
New to the forum and new Avalanche owner.  To learn more than you've ever wanted to know about fuel additives, oil additives, or just oils in general go to www.bobistheoilguy.com or specifically http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=5;DaysPrune=1000

These guys are nuts about oils and will rip most additives. 

Take a look.
 
i think what works best is if you put a cup of sand or sugar every fill up... one of the best is adding water to your fill up... make sure you have the ratio of 2 gallons of gas 1 gallon of water
 
I had a 1993 Ford Explorer that I kept out in the back yard for years to only use as a spare vehicle when one of our other cars was in the shop.

The fuel in it would sit for several years.

That truck always started and ran when needed.

I changed the oil in that truck every 5 years or so, whether it needed it or not.

I sold it this past spring to a co-worker's teenaged boy.

He is still driving the crap out of it to this day.
 
Gasoline should remain stable for about 3-6 months. Do you fill up less often than this?
Right now, over 3 months but less than 6. We use the Avalanche primarily for trips (and building supply runs). But nowhere to go for the most part and it looks like it will be that way for the foreseeable future Just concerned about additive affect on fuel system parts.
 
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