GM memo to dealers regarding oiled air filters and warranty claims

[ynnek888]

I hope this isn't a repost.. Didn't find it on the search..

================

The following is a memo from GM stating the use of rechargeable air filters may cause transmission shift problems, engine driveability problems & SES Light On problems (throwing codes). It also states these problems will NOT be covered under warranty. Yes, in part of the memo, it states "excessively oiled" filters. But for the most part, it reads any use of this type of filter & these issues won't be covered.


quote:
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SERVICE - ALL BUICK, CADILLAC, CHEVROLET, GMC TRUCK, ISUZU, OLDSMOBILE, PONTIAC AND HUMMER DEALERS


Subject: A/T Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or SES Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter -- 2004 and Prior Cars and Lt Duty Trucks and 2003-2004 HUMMER H2
Message #: VSS20040056

Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013 will be available in SI on March 18, 2004.

Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES)
Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter

Models: 2004 and All Prior Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2003-2004 HUMMER H2

DO THIS
First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket excessively oiled air filter

DON'T DO THIS
DO NOT repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter.

The installation of an aftermarket reusable, oiled air filter may result in:

1. Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On

2. Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)

3. Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range

The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.

When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with a OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.

Transmission or engine driveability concerns that are the result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[PewterAv]

I was just into the Dealer for an issue with my rear window. I have a close friend who works at this Dealer as a technician. My friend noticed that I use a K & N filter. He informed me that they have had several Avalanche's and pickup's in with Mass Air Flow sensor failures. All of these vehicles had K & N filters in them. He talked to GM Techline, and they told him the K & N filter has been linked to Mass Air Flow sensor failures.

If you look at your air filter assembly, you will notice that the MAF sensor is located directly above the filter. A heated MAF sensor just above an oil treated filter does not seem to live very long. I am also a technician. I was with a Chevrolet dealership for some time, I am now with a fleet shop. With all that I know about these air intake systems and after looking closely at me Avalanche, I will no longer be using an oil treated filter. By the way, a MAF sensor runs around $400.00.

Sorry this was so long, just thought some would like to know.

Lee

 

[MikeF]

It figures... I spent almost 2 months toying with the idea of installing one of these filters on my 2003 5.3 Av and I finally decided to order the Procold today, and then I see the above post after ordering it. Arghhhh...
Can I assume (I know what happens when you do that) if I don't excessively oil the filter (it is a K&N type filter in the Procold, correct?) I should be OK? Or, would the dealership be within it's rights to void any warranted repairs associated with the filter just because one is installed - regardless of whether it's excessively oiled or not? Mike

 

[Beaverton]

This is interesting. I put my K&N in not long after I bought my truck. It's been about 15 months, and it only has the oil it came with out of the plastic wrap.

Recently someone posted (and I'm sorry that I can't recall who) mentioned that their truck seemed to running a bit rich 700 miles after installing their K&N, complaining that the inside of his tail pipes were getting black carbon buildup pretty fast.

Because of that post I've been considering putting back in my old stock filter and seeing if there was any difference. The inside of my tailpipes are fairly black, too. I should note that this is also about the same time I noticed a drop in my mileage...

 

[PewterAv]

Sorry Mike. I too was thinking of a ProCold. As far as the dealer concerning the filter, it would most likely depend on the dealer's discretion. Some dealer's stick to the written word from GM, and some dealer's are willing to work with you. I was told that GM recommended removing the oil treated filters. Although, this could probably change at any time.

Lee

 

[MikeF]

Hehe.. In may case, I plopped down the credit card and called from the office and then came home and read the email about GM...Geez.. now I am going to be reallllllly second guessing myself when it comes to deciding on what exhaust system upgrades I should install .
The good news is that I have an Autotap OBDII scanner that I will hook up to the computer prior to installing the Procold... try and get some baseline measurements: cold start, hot start, cruising etc.. and capture whatever data I can re the MAS and mixture. Once I feel comfortable with the data I collected, I'll install the Procold and see if I can come up with anything that is radically different from the baseline under the same conditions. This may take some time to work out so if there are folks out there that have gone down this road already, chime in ...Thanks. Mike

 

[ygmn]

I drove mine with stock filter assembly for over year....black soot on tail pipe....

Change to procold for over a year....still have black soot....never had a SES light.....

Lucky I dunno...but happy

 

[MikeF]

Ahhh.. there is light (or should I say no SES light ) in this thread...
I would have thought that the issue re MAS problems and rich mixtures would have been discussed to death by now if there was a real problem..
I understand there is an air intake guru out there (11h?) that uses the procold. Is there an issue with the K&N filter in the Procold configuration? Cheers. Mike

 

[gregas]

GREAT.....................






(note to self......self, remove Pro Cold before going to dealer....)

 

[aetatis]

(note to self......self, remove Pro Cold before going to dealer....)

Thats pretty easy to do also. I always save my old oem parts
because of this..

Technically speaking I don't understand why GM should have a
problem with an aftermarket filter.. I noticed a lot better performance
out of my engine with my volant (Which has a K+N type filter btw).
A bit more HP and a bit better Gas MPG...

I can understand why descreening a MAF sensor would be bad but
an oiled fitler? And the filters don't seem to be dripping in oil. They have a pretty light coating..

Anyone heard what K+N or Procold has said regarding this?

Aetatis.

 

[Tubbyslanche]

I hope this isn't a repost.. Didn't find it on the search..

================

The following is a memo from GM stating the use of rechargeable air filters may cause transmission shift problems, engine driveability problems & SES Light On problems (throwing codes). It also states these problems will NOT be covered under warranty. Yes, in part of the memo, it states "excessively oiled" filters. But for the most part, it reads any use of this type of filter & these issues won't be covered.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SERVICE - ALL BUICK, CADILLAC, CHEVROLET, GMC TRUCK, ISUZU, OLDSMOBILE, PONTIAC AND HUMMER DEALERS


Subject: A/T Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or SES Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter -- 2004 and Prior Cars and Lt Duty Trucks and 2003-2004 HUMMER H2
Message #: VSS20040056

Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013 will be available in SI on March 18, 2004.

Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES)
Light On as a Result of the Installation of an Aftermarket Reusable, Excessively Oiled Air Filter

Models: 2004 and All Prior Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2003-2004 HUMMER H2

DO THIS
First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket excessively oiled air filter

DON'T DO THIS
DO NOT repair under warranty if concerns result from the use of a reusable aftermarket oiled air filter.

The installation of an aftermarket reusable, oiled air filter may result in:

1. Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On

2. Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)

3. Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range

The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.

When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with a OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.

Transmission or engine driveability concerns that are the result of the installation of an aftermarket reusable, excessively oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wonder What K&N and the Others would reply with

 

[SpottyJ]

Anyone heard what K+N or Procold has said regarding this?

Wonder What K&N and the Others would reply with

It is interesting that on the K&N Website it states that their "Replacement Air Filters" ..."Will NOT void US vehicle warranty"

But, on their "Performance Intake Kits" there is no mention of Warranty.

Don't know if that means anything or not!

I sent a note to K&N asking what they think about the their products and voiding a warranty. More to follow...............

 

[dhpro]

Spoke to Pro-Cold and they hadn't seen the memo. He did say that it would imply that oil was massing on the MAS and then clogging causing problems down the line. He implied its a result of sloppy filter maintenance/oiling and that we shud all be very patient when reoiling. He further says that they won't have much success not warantying, however thats no consolation for anyone with an issue. Suggest checking the MAS before dealer service or better yet replacing the OEM whenever dealer service is done, that way it never makes the service record. R/

 

[Major Penalty]

I have had a procold for 4K miles now and have been real happy. I read this thread earlier this week and sort of disregarded it because there has not been much mention here of issues with the MAF sensor after installing an intake with a K&N filter.

Then tonight the SES light comes on. Fortunately, the Predator arrived the other day and was sitting in the box on the counter. So I grab it and scanned for codes. Result:

P0174 Fuel Trim, Bank 2, System too lean

A quick google search pulls up a Ford TSB about this error entitled MASS AIR FLOW (MAF) - SENSOR CONTAMINATION. Albeit a Ford TSB, the information indicates:

"MAF sensors can get contaminated from a variety of sources: dirt, oil, silicon, spider webs, potting compound from the sensor itself, etc. When a MAF sensor gets contaminated, it skews the transfer function such that the sensor over-estimates air flow at idle (causes the fuel system to go rich) and under-estimates air flow at high air flows (causes fuel system to go lean). This means Long Term Fuel Trims will learn lean (negative) corrections at idle and learn rich (positive) corrections at higher air flows. "

This now has me wondering. I am not too worried though and cleared the code. Let's see if it comes back and I would not want to give up my procold.

Anyone here had any issues with the MAF sensor after installing an aftermarket air filter or more specifically a procold with K&N?

Thanks,

-- MP

 

[02-Z66]

i remember this issue coming up before. there was talk about the oil for the filters being bad for your MAF. i decided that the gains were not worth me having to shell out the bucks to replace a MAF, or anything else for that matter.
i did have my tranny go out on me though on the '02. i did have a K&N AiRaid installed since the first day i owned the truck. i got it fixed under warranty thank goodness. i did not see the need for one on the new AV.

 

[Cool Rod]

I have a ProCold too. So far no problems, and I'd like to keep it.

Is there an un-oiled filter that can be substituted for the K&N on the ProCold?

 

[agate]

I have Pro Cold on my AV for a while now. I did have problems with a trouble light for the MAF, but thought that was associated with the increased air flow.

Did not notice my K&N filter for the Pro Cold had any oil on it when I installed nor when I checked it about 6 weeks ago.

Did learn that the plastic tube from the MAF to the throttle body will hold water in it. I had ran through some which got sucked up into the Pro cold because its position in the fender ( not recommended for puddle jumping) shut the engine down. I did not realize I had water in the tube for 2 months.

Mike

 

[Intimidatoruag]

ok ... I don't get it ... how can a K&N AIR filter cause problems with the transmisson? ....

My wife has been driving the truck the last 2 weeks and has just voiced a concernthat someting is wrong with the tranny ... slipping from 1st to 2nd and sometime acting as if it is in "N" when it is in Drive ..... hum .... :?

 

[gregas]

ok ... I don't get it ... how can a K&N AIR filter cause problems with the transmisson? ....

My wife has been driving the truck the last 2 weeks and has just voiced a concernthat someting is wrong with the tranny ... slipping from 1st to 2nd and sometime acting as if it is in "N" when it is in Drive ..... hum .... :?

Same here...just started yesterday..........03 Z71 19K

 

[bonedog]

This memo doesn't state you CAN'T HAVE the intakes just the OVER OILED Filters!!

When you wash and reoil the filter some people over oil it and cause the MAF to get screwed up. Just follow the directions and make sure the filter is dry before reinstalling it.

The Memo means that if the MAF gets screwed and it is because there is excessive oil from a reusable filter on it. No dice with replacement, if the MAF just went bad and has no oil residue then you are good to go.

Just watch the oil and you are all set!!

Bonedog

 

[Nightshark]

I have 42k on my 2003 now. I have had the Procold intake on for about half of those miles. I have never had any problems with the SES light or the way te truck runs. Runs better with the Procold.

I would guess most of the problem comes from the people that over-oil their filters thereby causing excessive oil to come off into the intake and collecting on the MAF. If you are careful, I do not think you will have a problem. If your SES light does come on and you have had a K&N on for a while, most likely something else has set off the light. Todays systems are extremely sensitive and it is easy for a SES light to be sent from a multitude of systems and sensors

 

[FSUGUY]

Same here...just started yesterday..........03 Z71 19K

my problem was similar.... I had my tranny rebuilt 2 days ago..... the longer you wait the worse the tranny will get.....take it in ASAP......

 

[weedskc]

I'm thinking about adding the air intake kit, but from the comments I've read, I'm not yet sure if the benefits are worth the trouble. What air filter should I go with if the K&N creates a problem with the sensor? Any ideas.

 

[Major Penalty]

I would not let this discourage you. Even though I got the SES light, I am not convinced that it is due to the intake/K&N and I am not that concerned. The procold is the best mod I have done to date in terms of performance impact.

If the light comes back on, I am going to put the OEM box back on and reset the code. If it comes on then, I am going to take it to the dealer for further investigation. If they replace the MAF, then I will put the procold back on. If it happens again, then I would be concerned.

It is pretty trivial to install one of these intake kits and to put the OEM box back on. Since we all feel that this is sort of ridiculous, I would not let it deter you at this point.

I have taken my Av to the dealer for other things and they did not say a word about any of my mods, which include a different instrament cluster too. I only receive compliments when I take it in.

 

[vdubpig]

Are we talking about the FIPK kits only? Or how about the straight up replacement filters (square shaped, fit in air cleaner box, made by K&N)??