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I blew my transmission

ok, now get this load of BS.......

Called the dealer this morning, transmission is at the dealer..... and I was told hopefully they will be able to get it installed today.....

WHAT I have been here for a week and HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE INSTALLED TODAY?????

:8: :E: :8: :E: :8: :E: :8: :E: :8: :E: :8: :E:
 
Update on Grey.

He just called and said he was about an hour from home... in his Avalanche.
He said they swaped it out for him.

I will let him give you the rest of the story.

Glad it worked out.

Todd
 
enkeiavalanche said:
I guess I can join the Blown Trans club now..... :E: I'm here in Md and it's gone...... :mad: :( :mad: :( :mad: :(
Bummer!
 
Damn! Nice that ordeal is over... Whew!

But Enkie, This isn't the way we take turns!!

What does or doesn't yours do?
 
3rd and 4th are gone... :E:  :E:
1st and 2nd still around but for how long  :rolleyes:  won't get us back to NJ ... Maybe in reverse... :rolleyes:
 
OK, was it serviced recently? Like a fluid change. I'm asking that, to determine a pattern; `seems they go out just after that! :E:
 
about 3 months ago....Had oil change last week, new brake set up last week,new wheel barrening put in this morning..Thats it...It's old pulls a 4200lbs camper at 70mph and likes to drive fast....

Enkei_Girl is takeing my picture right now... BUT the Batterys are dead...She should have bought the 35mm..... ;D
 
UhOh... Another digital camera jab.. >:D

Trans "oil" or eng oil?

Grey had a trans flush done to his just before the Laughlin trip. Must be the detergent affecting the old clutch plates.
 
Enkie, you mentioned the "tune"... I would feel that it messes with this a bit:

Document ID# 838146​
 
Transmission Adaptive Functions

The 4L60-E transmission utilizes a line pressure control system during upshifts to compensate for the normal wear of transmission components. By adjusting the line pressure, the PCM can maintain acceptable transmission shift times. This process is known as "adaptive learning" or "shift adapts" and is similar to the closed loop fuel control system used for the engine.

In order for the PCM to perform a "shift adapt," it must first identify if an upshift is acceptable to analyze. For example, upshifts that occur during cycling of the A/C compressor or under extreme throttle changes could cause the PCM to incorrectly adjust line pressure. When an upshift is initiated, a number of contingencies, such as throttle position, transmission temperature, and vehicle speed, are checked in order to determine if the actual shift time is valid to compare to a calibrated desired shift time. If all the contingencies are met during the entire shift, then the shift is considered valid and the adapt function may be utilized if necessary.

Once an adaptable shift is identified, the PCM compares the actual shift time to the desired shift time and calculates the difference between them. This difference is known as the shift error. The actual shift time is determined from the time that the PCM commands the shift to the start of the engine RPM drop initiated by the shift. If the actual shift time is longer than the calibrated desired shift time, a soft feel or slow engagement, then the PCM decreases current to the pressure control (PC) solenoid in order to increase line pressure for the next, same, upshift under identical conditions. If the actual shift time is shorter than the calibrated desired shift time, a firm engagement, then the PCM increases current to the PC solenoid in order to decrease line pressure for the next, same, upshift under identical conditions.

The purpose of the adapt function is to automatically compensate the shift quality for the various vehicle shift control systems. It is a continuous process that will help to maintain optimal shift quality throughout the life of the vehicle.

Clearing Transmission Adaptive Pressure (TAP)

Transmission adaptive pressure (TAP) information is displayed and may be reset using a scan tool.

The adapt function is a feature of the PCM that either adds or subtracts line pressure from a calibrated base line pressure in order to compensate for normal transmission wear. The TAP information is divided into 13 units, called cells. The cells are numbered 4 through 16. Each cell represents a given torque range. TAP cell 4 is the lowest adaptable torque range and TAP cell 16 is the highest adaptable torque range. It is normal for TAP cell values to display zero or negative numbers. This indicates that the PCM has adjusted line pressure at or below the calibrated base line pressure.

Updating TAP information is a learning function of the PCM designed to maintain acceptable shift times. It is not recommended that TAP information be reset unless one of the following repairs has been made:
  ? Transmission overhaul or replacement
  ? Repair or replacement of an apply or release component, clutch, band, piston, servo
  ? Repair or replacement of a component or assembly which directly affects line pressure

Resetting the TAP values using a scan tool will erase all learned values in all cells. As a result, the PCM will need to relearn TAP values. Transmission performance may be affected as new TAPs are learned. Learning can only take place when the PCM has determined that an acceptable shift has occurred. The PCM must also relearn TAP values if it is replaced.
 
does this mean don't use programers?????  Give me the old 350 4 barrel anytime...... (y)  NO!!! Computer crap!!!!!!
 
enkeiavalanche said:
does this mean don't use programers????? Give me the old 350 4 barrel anytime...... (y) NO!!! Computer crap!!!!!!

I thought you would praise that. >:D Right up there with digital camera's...

The programmers just tamper with the offsets that adjust when shift timing changes.
Plus a few other line pressure tricks and changes.

I doubt they really "hurt" anything unless they hit "too hard", since the shifts are more positive, there's less slippage that way; less wear?
 
ok just got home....

well after a stop for a few beers at the local pub.... ?>:D

OK.... they swapped out my tranny for a new one... so rather then no warrentee... I have a 12 month 12,000 mile warrenty on the tranny...

I asked them if they could tell what made the ranny go... they basically told me that I had a POS tranny from the factory, and they found not just metal shavings.... but metal CHUNKS in the tranny...

3rd and 4th were basically demolished....

GM covered my tranny even with 43,113 miles and no extended warrenty... and I will find out next week if they are going to send me a check for my out of town costs while my truck was in the shop.... I wonder if they will cover gambling losses ?>:D ?kidding...

Anyway Glad to finally be home and a huge thank you to Findlays GMC in Bullhead City, Arizona and to the customer service rep at GM that I have been dealing with for the past week... maybe I should send her flowers ?;)

Grey ?:B:
 
That deserves a topic on it's own. They certainly went out of their way.

Jolyn was even asking about how you were doing with it! I guess there's some focus away from the kid world after all!

With the chunks, instead of clutch problems, it sounds like the planetary gear's shafts (or just one of the four of them) worked loose. As I mentioned earlier, they weld them because of that!

What a relief. I hope your boss is understanding! At least you have proof!

Now for Enkie and I guess, was it Bonedog too... What a week!
 
I would think that would be pushing it a bit... :E:

`Wished there was a campaign on these; it looks like were all (4L60e's that is) concerned!

Even 74K is too soon.
 
sperry said:
I would think that would be pushing it a bit... :E:

`Wished there was a campaign on these; it looks like were all (4L60e's that is) concerned!

Even 74K is too soon.

well seeing as how there was no paper trail that I had my truck in for a tranny issue while under warrentee, and GM covered it anyway... them covering mine out of warrenty is almost addmitance of a known issue....

Just my $0.02c

Grey
 
Here's some more jargon..  Refer to the exploded views earlier..

No 3-4:
Input Housing Assembly (620-621, 646-655)

  ? 3-4 clutch or forward clutch plates worn
  ? Excessive clutch plate travel
  ? Cut or damaged 3-4 clutch or forward clutch piston seals
  ? Porosity in input clutch housing or piston
  ? 3-4 clutch piston checkball stuck, damaged or not sealing
  ? Restricted apply passages
  ? Forward clutch piston retainer and ball assembly not seating
  ? Sealing balls loose or missing
  ? Input housing (621) cracked or broken

Case (103): 3rd accumulator retainer and ball assembly not seating

2-4 Servo Assembly (13-2:cool:: 2nd apply piston seals missing, cut or damaged..
 
And more, I found a TSB! May not exactly be "it" but interesting...

Document ID# 1572774
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche​
 
4L60E , 4L65E Slip Condition in 2nd , 3rd or 4th Damaged 2-4 Band 3-4 Clutch - kw automatic band bind body busy chatter clutch fourth GTO second shift shudder slip third transmission valve PQC #PIP3136 - (Nov 30, 2004)

Condition/Concern:

The 4L60E/4L65E automatic transmission may experience a condition of slipping, late or missed shifts in 2nd 3rd and 4th. An internal transmission disassembly may reveal a 2-4 band and or a 3-4 clutch being distressed.

Recommendation/Instructions:

Based on engineering transmission quality review sessions the following items should be inspected and or replaced as required. These items were found to be the cause of the distress to the 2-4 band and 3-4 clutch.

Low Line pressure (perform a PCS test as defined in SI)

1-2 accumulator piston cracked or broken

2-4 Servo Piston Seals for being cut or damaged

2-4 Servo Apply Pin for being nicked/scored /binding in the pin bore

2-4 Servo Piston Bore for being scored or mismachined

2-4 Band Anchor Pin (41) missing (low mileage)

Servo Feed Oil Passage blocked with sediment

Forward Clutch Apply Piston Seals for being cut or damaged

Forward Clutch Apply Piston for being cracked

3-4 Clutch Apply Piston Seals for being cut or damaged

3-4 Clutch Apply Piston for being cracked

3-4 Clutch and Forward Clutch oil feed passage blocked or restricted (should flow check the housing, and the passages should be inspected for proper location)

3-4 Clutch and Forward Clutch Turbine Shaft Sealing Rings for being damaged or missing

3-4 Clutch check ball (620) for leaking

3-4 Clutch air bleed orifice cup plug (69:cool: is in place

Overrun Clutch Seal (632) damaged

#7 Checkball for not being seated or leaking

4-3 Sequence Valve (383) undersized

Boost Valve (219) stuck causing low line pressure

Input Sun Gear to Input Carrier Thrust Bearing (700) damaged came apart

Selective Washer (616) extra washer installed

Oil Pump Body (200) cracked/damaged

If none of the above items are found to be the root cause for the failure the Input Housing, Forward Clutch Piston and 3-4 Clutch Piston should be replaced and resealed as well as resealing the 2-4 Servo. Full sized trucks and utilities should have the shift cable properly adjusted and/or replaced if the cable is not holding proper adjustment. In the event the transmission as a repeat 2-4 Band or 3-4 Clutch Failure the transmission should be replaced.

Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance..
Models:

((02 - 05 CHEVROLET SILVERADO ) and (02 - 05 GMC SIERRA 4L60E TRANSMISSION) and (02 - 05 CHEVROLET AVALANCHE ) and (02 - 05 CHEVROLET TAHOE ) and (02 - 04 CHEVROLET S-10 ) and (02 - 04 CHEVROLET ASTRO ) and (02 - 05 CHEVROLET EXPRESS ) and (02 - 05 CHEVROLET SUBURBAN ON) and (02 - 05 GMC YUKON/XL ) and (02 - 05 GMC YUKON/XL DENALI ) and (02 - 05 GMC SIERRA DENALI ) and (02 - 05 CHEVROLET TRAILBLAZER ) and (02 - 04 CHEVROLET BLAZER ) and (02 - 05 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ) and (02 FB CHEVROLET CAMARO ) and (02 FB PONTIAC FIREBIRD ) and (02 - 05 GMC ENVOY ) and (02 - 04 GMC JIMMY ) and (02 - 04 GMC SAFARI ) and (02 - 05 GMC SONOMA ) and (02 - 05 GMC SAVANA ) and (02 - 04 OLDSMOBILE BRAVADA ) and (02 - 05 CADILLAC ESCALADE 4L65E TRANSMISSION) and (02 - 05 CADILLAC ESCALADE EXT 4L60E TRANSMISSION) and (03 - 05 HUMMER H2) and (04 - 05 CHEVROLET COLORADO) and (04 - 05 GMC CANYON) and (04 - 05 PONTIAC GTO)

.
 
It looks like this was what delayed Grey's trans.....

---------

Document ID# 1522494
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche​

Info - Product Quality Center for Engine and Transmission Assembly and Transfer Case Replacement #02-07-30-029E - (May 26, 2004)

2005 and Prior Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks

2003-2005 HUMMER H2

with Automatic Transmissions and/or Transfer Cases

This bulletin is being revised to add the 2005 model year. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 02-07-30-029D (Section 07 - Transmission).

To improve the quality of both OEM and Goodwrench? replacement engine, transfer case and transmission assemblies, the Product Quality Center (PQC) was implemented to assist dealers whenever an assembly requires replacement. The primary purpose of the PQC is to obtain faster and more accurate quality information on all replaced assemblies. This information will be used to improve the reliability of both OEM and Goodwrench? assemblies.

Included are all OEM assemblies replaced under warranty and policy, service assemblies (B and N claims) and over the counter assembly replacements beginning with repair orders written on July 1, 2002 for engines and transmissions and repair orders written on January 20, 2003 for transfer cases. Dealer empowerment regarding policy adjustments remains in effect, however, the need to replace an engine, transfer case or transmission must be reviewed with the PQC. Assemblies replaced under a GMPP extended service contract are not included. Dealers should continue to contact GMPP in these cases. When servicing engines and transmissions covered under an exchange program, contact TAC as described in the Exchange Bulletin.

Prior to replacing an assembly, dealers will need to call the PQC at 1-866-654-7654. The Center will be available Monday through Friday from 8:00 am to 5:00 p.m. in each time zone in the continental U.S. (in Canada, Eastern to Pacific Time). Prior to calling, please refer to the engine, transfer case or transmission template found at the end of this bulletin. The PQC will follow these templates in order to acquire information for GM use during assembly teardowns and root cause determination. Use of the templates will minimize the time spent on the telephone and avoid the need of a second call to the PQC. Copy the templates as required.

Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 02-06-01-026 and 02-07-30-028 for engine and transmission unit number locations.

Any of these assemblies sold "over the counter" and then considered for an assembly replacement MUST have the unit serial number attached to be considered by the PQC. If an assembly is returned without a legible serial number, dealers will need to contact their Area Service Manager (AVM) (in Canada, the District Service Manager (DSM)) who will determine if the assembly is the same unit sold over the counter. Dealers are encouraged to record the unit serial number on the original counter sales invoice.

If normal engine, transfer case or transmission diagnostic assistance is needed, dealers should still call the GM Technical Assistance Center. The PQC should only be called when an assembly is needed. In the case of an over the counter replacement, the dealer will be expected to obtain as much failure information as possible before the PQC will approve a replacement. This may include involving the purchaser in the call along with a representative of the dealership. Dealers should not provide the phone number to purchasers.

The PQC will review the diagnosis, offer additional direction, and when needed, authorize replacement of the assembly. The PQC will also pre-authorize the warranty claim. Dealers will need to provide the total claim expense, including a breakdown of the assembly cost and parts mark-up, labor cost (hours X warranty labor rate) with any additional hours. The Center can authorize a reasonable and customary amount of additional time to disassemble and reassemble the unit in order to determine if an assembly is required.

In many cases, the technician may not have all the necessary claim information during the initial call. In these instances, the assembly will be authorized and the technician provided with a case number. A second call will be needed at a later time to pre-authorize the claim which can be made by the Warranty Administrator once the claim information has been collected.

There may be situations where the assembly can be repaired but due to customer satisfaction reasons, an assembly replacement should be considered. In these cases, the dealer should still contact the PQC for assistance. They will collect the quality information and refer the dealer to their Area Service Manager (AVM) [in Canada, District Service Manager (DSM)] who can approve the replacement. The assembly can be installed only if the AVM/DSM provides approval. If this occurs, the warranty claim must be "H" routed for authorization.

If an assembly needs to be replaced and the PQC is not available (after hours, on the weekend), dealers should use their own discretion, including a repair vs. replace analysis. On the next business day, please call the PQC with all the required information (refer to the templates) and the claim will be pre-approved.

The following five labor operation numbers will require either pre-approval from the Call Center or approval from the AVM/DSM:
  ? K7000 -- transmission assembly replacement
  ? J1820, J1840 and J1880 -- engine assembly replacements
  ? K4410 -- transfer case assembly replacement

Dealer authorization will not approve these labor operation numbers. Repairs started before July 1, 2002 can still be submitted without PQC approval.

When returning a core assembly, a readable copy of the repair order and completed feedback form shipped with the new assembly must be attached to the shipping container per the instructions supplied with the new assembly. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 01-07-30-029 for transmission return information. DEALERS MUST RETAIN ALL ENGINE, TRANSFER CASE AND TRANSMISSION CORES UNTIL EITHER THE CLAIM IS PAID OR THE WARRANTY PARTS CENTER HAS SENT A REQUEST FOR THAT CORE.

PQC Call Process

  1. If dealer diagnosis indicates a need for either an engine, transfer case or transmission replacement, then complete the appropriate engine, transfer case or transmission call template in this bulletin. Accurate repair and replace estimates are essential to eliminating a second PQC contact.
  2. Call the PQC at 1-866-654-7654 prior to replacing the assembly.
        ? If assembly replacement is NOT authorized, then proceed with repair of the assembly. If agreement on repairs cannot be reached, contact your AVM (in Canada, DSM) for a final review of the case.
        ? If assembly replacement is approved, then proceed with the replacement and ATTACH the call template to the repair order.
  3. When the repair order is closed, compare the warranty claim line total to the replace cost estimate on the call template (Engine = line 11, Transfer Case = line 12, Transmission = line 13). If the final claim amount does NOT exceed $50.00 more than the estimate, then submit the claim. If the claim amount DOES exceed $50.00 more than the estimate, then continue with Step 4.
  4. Complete the last section of the call template and contact the PQC either by phone at 1-866-654-7654 or fax at 1-866-207-3109 making sure that the PQC case number field is filled in. If faxing, DO NOT SUBMIT THE CLAIM FOR A MINIMUM OF 24 HOURS as it will reject until the PQC adjusts the preapproved amount. If the PQC is unable to approve the difference, they will contact the dealer as indicated on the fax.

----------------------

The rest is the form they have to fill out...
 
sperry said:
That would be a good one to build up...

If you just want it R&R'd, you could go to most any trans shop.. The PCM/TCM should function ok with it, but it needs to go through a specific programming setup procedure.

If you want to come up to Garden Grove, My bud can do that... But he may want it for his EXT if it's all built up! >:D

Nothing like having a 4L65e spare hanging around!! Damn!

Does it have the hardened parts in it?

It's not built, it's just the 'stock' 4L65E from GMPP.  But from what I understand there are hardened parts (i.e. input shaft, etc.), 5-pinion planetaries, etc, so it is a little better unit than the stock 4L60E. 

What special programming needs to be done to the 4L65E?

None of the tranny shops around here want to touch it.  San Diego is a po-dunk town in many respects, especially when it comes to auto performance.  A couple of dealers have said they would do it, but they've said it would be $450-$550, which to me is ridiculous.

How much would your buddy charge?  Is he ASE certified (if so, that means the GMPP 12/12 warrantee starts from the moment the tranny is installed, not when I took delivery last year).  PM me if it looks promising.
 
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