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Power Folding Mirror Question/Survey

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darkwingZ24

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
96
Location
Surrey, BC ? ?CANADA
Hi,

? ? I searched for a topic on this but found none, so I appologize if this has been discussed before...

? ? I have a 2003 AV with the power folding mirrors and I have noticed a little quirk that has been bugging me and I was wondering if others have noticed it. ?

? ? What happens is when I park the truck I fold in the mirrors. ?Now when I come back to start the truck I start the truck before unfolding the mirrors. ?The mirrors don't seem to know they are folded and try to move back to their driverx position and obviously can't since they hit the door. ?So when they are unfolded I have to hit the driverx button to tell them to go to the correct position. ?I also tested the manual mirror control and I can still control the mirros when they are folded.

? ? Now I have spoken to the dealership and they spoke to GM and GM admits that they know this situation exists and that I am (somehow) an oddity that not many people encounter this problem (they claim 1 17000 or something ). ?So i figure either people don't fold in their mirros, or they are diligent enough to unfold the mirrors before they start. ?GM said that this might be fixed in a future upgrade but until more people exhibit this problem it's not high priority. ?

? ? Has anybody experienced this? ?If so I would suggest to make a point of mentioning it and maybe if enough people speak out GM might do something. ?Thanky-you.
 
I played with mine (2003) on the way home tonight, folding and unfolding while driving. They always went back to the proper (ie preset) position.
 
Humm that is really interesting being that I have a 2002 AV I don't have the power folding mirror but working at a dealership I have played around with them now let my varifi so you put the side slector swich in the middle then you hit the right hand side arrow on the larger mirror adjustment and the mirrors go in, then to get them out you hit the left hand button... if this is what you are doing then I am not sure what the prob. is but there is really somthing wrong I hope this helps
 
Interesting. I just tried mine (2003 Z66). While folded, I put the key in the ignition which triggers the 'personalization' (seats move, etc.) I can see the mirrors 'try' to get to the right tilt while they're still folded in. They don't seem to hit anything, and when I unfold them they are in the right position.
 
I use mine each night to get into the garage, the only problem I have is if I leave them folded up at night, when I start the truck and leave the garage the drivers side will only position itself in the "curb" mode. I must put truck in park and hit the driver button then it sets in the right position. Both unfold allright, just drivers side wants to think I am backing up. BTW I do not use the curb mode, found it to "bug" me to much when backing up.
 
My mirror does the same thing. Each time I unfold them, I have to hit the driver 1 button to get the drivers side mirror out of the curb position. The passenger mirror doesnt do this.
 
Mine work fine on my 03 but my G/F had the same problem with her Envoy mirrors... They say there is no fix yest as far as I know.... :(

NatcanAv
 
Crabby Blue said:
I use mine each night to get into the garage, the only problem I have is if I leave them folded up at night, when I start the truck and leave the garage the drivers side will only position itself in the "curb" mode. ?I must put truck in park and hit the driver button then it sets in the right position. Both unfold allright, just drivers side wants to think I am backing up. ?BTW I do not use the curb mode, found it to "bug" me to much when backing up.
Click to expand...
What he said goes for me....
 
I just wish I had power folding mirrors on my AV so that I could get my AV into my garage without manually pulling in the mirros by hand!!!

>:D :6: >:D
 
Crabby Blue said:
I use mine each night to get into the garage, the only problem I have is if I leave them folded up at night, when I start the truck and leave the garage the drivers side will only position itself in the "curb" mode. ?I must put truck in park and hit the driver button then it sets in the right position. Both unfold allright, just drivers side wants to think I am backing up. ?BTW I do not use the curb mode, found it to "bug" me to much when backing up.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I am talking about. What happens is that to fold the mirror it has to tilt down so it can fit. If you watch when you press button to fold them if the mirror is set to a position higher than allowed while folded the mirror will tilt down before folding. In the folded position the bottom of the mirror that sticks out will hit the black triangular plastic trim if not safely tucked away. It is this bottom part of the mirror that hits when you put the key in as the mirror tries to move back to a position where the bottom of the mirror sticks out farther than it is allowed to go and when it is folded out it appears to be in the "curb assist" view just because it wasn't allowed to go back. The reason it doesn't seem to affect the passenger side is because the position it is usually in is already below what is allowed when folded so it isn't moved when the mirror are folded.

Mrosenfield: it works fine as long as you don't take the key out after folding them then put the key back in w/o unfolding them.

Why when GM was writing the software to control this stuff they didn't add a little bit to tell itself it's folded and store the position it was sent and wait until it's unfolded to move... seems simple enough to me but then again I didn't build the thing :)
 
I went through a lot to get them to fix this problem. They can't. I have found my solution. Fold/unfold your mirrors with the key in or out for both. Meaning. if you fold your mirrors with the key out, then you must unfold them with the key out also. If you forget, then stay in PARK, and hit the driver 1 (or 2) button.
 
darkwingZ24 said:
This is exactly what I am talking about. ?What happens is that...
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I had a feeling that was the issue, but I couldn't be sure since I have an '02 with manual folding mirrors and no memory. However, when I fold the mirrors, I have to move the mirror in first so it will clear the hinge. then when I unfold I have to move the mirror back.

I suspect that those that are complaining of this problem have the mirror adjusted so that this clearance is an issue. Those that don't have the problem have the mirror adjusted further in so this clearance is not an issue.

Why when GM was writing the software to control this stuff they didn't add a little bit to tell itself it's folded and store the position it was sent and wait until it's unfolded to move... seems simple enough to me but then again I didn't build the thing :)
Click to expand...
My guess is that while there are sensors that tell the controller the position of the mirror glass, there is no sensor that tells the controller whether or not the mirror is folded.

When it comes time to fold in the mirror, the position sensors tell it there will be a clearance problem, so the glass is moved to a safe position before the mirror folds.

However, when the driver puts in the key, and the mirror is folded, the controller doesn't know this and tries to move the mirror to the stored position. However, it fails since its movement is blocked. Then, when the mirror is unfolded, the glass is in the wrong position.

Actually, now that I think about it, it seems like there would be a simple software fix. When you first start the truck with the mirrors folded, let the controller try to move the glass and fail, that doesn't matter. What the software needs to do is re-set the position of the mirrors after an unfold operation. When the unfold button is released, it should just pretend that the current driver button was pressed and reset the mirrors one more time!

Of course, software changes always seem easy on the surface, until you start looking at the details. While it sounds like only a line or two of code is needed, it's probably more involved than that. Still, this sounds like something that can be fixed in software without having to re-engineer the mirrors and add new position sensors.

-- SS
 
Looks like the general has some reprogramming to do.

There appears to be a bug in the software controlling the folding side mirrors.

The dealer was unable to replicate it (gee, imagine that). So I took a few moments to attempt to reproduce the problem ALL THE TIME. (At first I thought the problem was intermittent.) Here's what I found out.

On my car (and I suspect other 2003 GM trucks with the folding mirror option), if you fold the mirrors in, lock the doors with the remote, then unlock the doors with the remote (thus recalling the personalized settings for that remote- among which is the mirror position), the mirror attempts to go to it "stored" location. The problem is, the mirror is folded in, and it can't do it.

So, once you unfold the mirrors, the mirror isn't in the "stored" position. You have to press the memory recall button to get it back to the right position.

Get this: If you fold the mirrors in, then out, without using the remote. They work fine.

Can anyone else confirm this behavior on their equipped rig?

My car received all software updates as of "6/28/03". (There were 5 module recalibrations [aka updates] performed.)

-Ed
 
Mine works like yours. When you unlock the doors with the remote the folded mirror attempts to go back to it's stored location but can't make the full adjustment.

I would imagine that the computer thinks that the mirror IS in the correct position when you fold it out since the FOB issued that command.

So the reprogram would be along the lines of...

- IF mirror is folded (do not set mirrors to stored position on FOB).

But to do that they will have to have a data point or a sensor which tells them whether or not the mirror is folded I guess.


I'm curious about the software updates. Do you know what was included and how you go about getting them? My truck is starting to sound like my PC that reminds me to download security updates every so often.
 
I was thinking that perhaps the sensor (switch) in the mirror that tells the BCM that the mirrors are folded might be bad. Hmm. I have a feeling that GM doesn't have a fix for this.

Regarding updates. The tech at the dealer allowed me to peek over his shoulder when he updated my rig. By using the Tech2 to gather version numbers of modules installed on my car, he took that back, plugged it into the PC they had in the back, and the PC downloaded all of the module recalibrations (firmware updates) to the Tech2, which he then took to my car and had the updates performed. In my case, there were 5-6 updates. And on the screen of the PC, if told you a brief blurb about what each update addressed. A couple of the updates I remember, one was for a 3-2 downshift clunk. (It helped, but its still there.) and another was for the climate control system.

Hope this helps,

Ed
 
Thanks for the confirmation.

I just got my AV back from the shop today and they said they were able to reproduce my "problem" with the mirrors. However, when they contacted GM's tech center, they said it was working "as designed".

So, it seems the general forgot to add a switch to the folding mirrors to tell the BCM not to send adjust the mirrors when folded in. Wanna bet the 2004's will have that switch? Talk about an oversight!

-Ed

TXAVy said:
Mine works like yours. When you unlock the doors with the remote the folded mirror attempts to go back to it's stored location but can't make the full adjustment.

I would imagine that the computer thinks that the mirror IS in the correct position when you fold it out since the FOB issued that command.

So the reprogram would be along the lines of...

- IF mirror is folded (do not set mirrors to stored position on FOB).

But to do that they will have to have a data point or a sensor which tells them whether or not the mirror is folded I guess.


I'm curious about the software updates. Do you know what was included and how you go about getting them? My truck is starting to sound like my PC that reminds me to download security updates every so often.
Click to expand...
 
I have the same mirror problem on my 2003. I almost always fold the mirrors in when I park. When I use the remote unlock, or put the key in, before unfolding the mirrors, the mirrors try to adjust to the memory position but can't. Then when I unfold the mirrors the drivers side is not adjusted properly. This has been really bugging me, as I have then had to manually adjust the thing. :mad: I guess I'm not the only one with this problem and it does help to learn that they will recall the position by pressing the driver-x button. Seems like it would be easy for the General to fix this. So far that is my only grip about the awesome Av.
 
MexicanMenace said:
While we're on the subject, anyone know if it's possible to install these onto a 2002 AV?
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If you do some poking around in the accessories forum, you should find some discussion on this.

As I recall, the mirrors should fit mechanically, and those functions that exist on the 2002 should still work with 2003 mirrors. However, there will be no wiring or controls for the other functions like turn signals and power folding. There will still be a substantial amount of work to get these functions working, plus you will need to figure out some sort of switch/pushbuttons to fold and restore the mirrors.

It looks like it may be possible, but it won't be plug-and-play.

TwoDogAv said:
Seems like it would be easy for the General to fix this.
Click to expand...
Even if there is no swtich to tell the mirror controller that the mirror is folded (as there apparently is not) it should still be a relatively simple software change to address this problem.

Suppose the mirrors are folded when the driver gets in and starts things up. With no switch, the mirror controller has no way to know this, so it just blindly tries to restore the mirror position. Of course it can't because the mirror is folded. This is how it works currently, and is the root of the problem. The simple fix would not change this, it would still try to restore the position while folded. However, once the mirror is unfolded, why not just give it another try to restore the correct position? This would solve the problem.

Right now, it seems that the mirror position is restored when you start the truck, and when a driver selection button is pressed. All that would be needed iss to add a few lines of code to do the same process to restore the mirror position whenever the mirrors are unfolded. No extra hardware would be needed, just a little bit more intelligence.

(Of course, that's easy to say when you don't have to do the work yourself. Everything is easy when it's somebody else's problem.)

-- SS
 
Well, after the first few times I had trouble with the mirrors adjusting themselves when I got in, I learned that most of the problems are my fault, driver error!. It seems that, someone else said this, if I fold the mirrors in with the motor running, back into the garage and shut off the engine, I must start the truck up to unfold the mirrors(returning to exact position). If I get into the truck and hit the X before starting truck, they go out but not up into correct position. If I fold them with engine off, must unfold with engine off.
Savior is that if I forget, just put truck in park and push driver one button. I do not have a problem with the mirrors glass folding in on itself and "clunking". I have hit them when I forgot to fold and will say they hold up real nice after that nono. :love: Don't know what I would do without them, real nice touch, even with a mild inconvinence at times. :B:
 
Thanks for your stream of consiousness ShapeShifter. Being a fellow techie and former programmer, I was thinking the same thing- just have the mirrors restore the memorized position after unfolding- a couple of more bytes of code on an embedded system. (In fact, the funny thing is that the mirrors DO recall the memorized setting after unfolding if you DON'T use the fob.) Go figure.

Not an ideal solution, but it does workaround the problem of not having a switch. It really blows me away that this "oversight" escaped the engineering phase. My guess is the bean counters got involved. But extra lines of code should be *that* expensive.

Hmm....

-Ed

ShapeShifter said:
Even if there is no swtich to tell the mirror controller that the mirror is folded (as there apparently is not) it should still be a relatively simple software change to address this problem.

Suppose the mirrors are folded when the driver gets in and starts things up. With no switch, the mirror controller has no way to know this, so it just blindly tries to restore the mirror position. Of course it can't because the mirror is folded. This is how it works currently, and is the root of the problem. The simple fix would not change this, it would still try to restore the position while folded. However, once the mirror is unfolded, why not just give it another try to restore the correct position? This would solve the problem.

Right now, it seems that the mirror position is restored when you start the truck, and when a driver selection button is pressed. All that would be needed iss to add a few lines of code to do the same process to restore the mirror position whenever the mirrors are unfolded. No extra hardware would be needed, just a little bit more intelligence.

(Of course, that's easy to say when you don't have to do the work yourself. Everything is easy when it's somebody else's problem.)

-- SS
Click to expand...
 
I have an 03 AV same problem! I thought it was me. Once I got the hang of the quirk (I've owned a lot of old cars, so this is not new), no problem as long as the kids aren't screaming lol

But on the lighter side, if you would like to have some fun with your G/F , WIFE or signif other, go to your nearest window and hide behind the curtians, as soon as they get ready to leave, hit the button on your remote and watch the look on thier face as the radio/cd ac/heater and mirror change to your presets and they freak out lol (wife likes classical, i like rock, poor woman LMAO) Just dont do it when they are in drive/rev, don't want to mess up the AV (or the wife lol) :)
 
I fold mine in every night and my do try to go to the memory position but it does not hit anything. Another subject, I hit my driver side mirror while pulling in the garage tonight (several reasons why, it makes me sick to think about it). Anyway, I have no pictures to post, but the mirror portion is ok, it is the base section with the bottom light that cracked. Anyone have an idea on how much this will cost to fix??
 
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