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Retractable power antennae mod?

N

NorthernAV

GUEST
Last week the Av was in for a lube/oil. As a general rule I always visit the parts department for anything new. While looking about another customer came in with an exchange for a retractable power antennae for a Cadillac car. He said it wasn't suitable for his application and they refunded his cash.

The wheels in my head started to roll... :0: Could this be something useful on my Av? I also have a 92 Nissan Pathfinder and while off-roading last winter in the forest I ripped the antennae clear from its base. This is something I don't want to do with my shiny new Av (my neighbour is going to remedy the forest path with his dozer.)

I've searched the boards for this topic but had no luck. Has anyone tried such a mod and been successful? If so, what did you use? I wonder if the Cadillac version of the Av has this feature and if it's compatible.

Any thoughts?
 
I have a EuroStyle flexible antennae, I works great and stays upright for the most part after long trips at high speeds etc.
 
chad2fw - I have considered the EuroStyle flexible antennae... thing is I rarely listen to the radio. Even on the trip through Toronto (which has some awesome radio stations) two weeks ago not once did I power up the radio... 6 CD's of personal compilations is hard to beat (no pun intended).

So really all I'm trying to do is clean up the lines of the truck and prevent some grief, while leaving the option of radio for those days when I should be listening to the radio (snow days, school closings, highway closings).

I'm putting a call into the dealership again today to find out if any of the other truck/suv models have this option. Will post if there is such a beast. I would imagine the option (if it does exist) won't be cheap... but if I can get a model number, there are some good wreckers here in New Brunswick.
 
There are plenty of power antennas available as after-market add-ons. Check the standard car-radio places listed in the sticky topic in the audio/electronics forum. They are often less than $100.

The big question is if there is enough room in the fender to mount the antenna. Normally, the motor is mounted right to the bottom of the antenna assembly, but if space is tight, there are models (might be hard to find) that have the motor connected by a flexible shaft so it can fit in a smaller space.

This is what a typical one piece unit looks like. The picture shows the part that mounts below the fender, only the very top portion is visible above the fender:

h12044pw22bPCD.jpeg


There are two main styles: automatic and manual. The manual units use a rocker switch which you push and hold to raise or lower the antenna. They work much like power windows. The automatic ones have an input which is usually tied to an output of the radio. When this input has power, the antenna fully raises. Turn off the power, and the antenna fully lowers.

When you turn off the ignition, a manual antenna will stay extended, unless you hit the button yourself. An automatic antenna, on the other hand, will retract if you turn off the ignition.

One thing to keep in mind if you don't use the radio much: with an auto antenna, it will generally be raised whenever the head unit is on, even if you are listening to a tape or CD. To get around this in the past, I added a switch to the signal lead. Turn the switch on, and the antenna is up whenever the ignition and radio are on, and it is down otherwise. Turn the switch off, and the antenna is down no matter what. I would normally leave the switch off, and only flip it on on the rare occasion when I listened to the radio.

With a manual antenna, you don't have to worry about this, it's only extended/retracted when you want it to be.


Hmmm... you've got me thinking about adding a power antenna to the Av... >:D

-- SS
 
or...
you could leave the antenna as it is and take the little plastic wrench they gave you in the glove box and unscrew it whenever you're going off-roading.

But it sounds fun to do the modding by putting a power antenna in. >:D
 
Why had I not thought of this?!?!
I wanted to do this in a previous vehicle, but there was not enough room in the fender...
I guess I'll have to look into this.
 
There is an EXT that parks in our garage here in Downtown Denver. It has a fixed antenna as well. The thing about antennae is that they need to be grounded to metal - typically to the fender where they are mounted.

I would bet that you could not mount a power antenna where the factory antenna is mounted. It seems pretty sturdy and the under cowl clearance would present a problem - as mentioned by Shape-Shifter.

The fender - or in our case the hood - since it drapes over the corner - is probably not the best place to mount it. If the antenna was up and you opened the hood it could break the antenna or bend the hood where it mounts.

I was thinking somewhere in the back in front of the rear side storage bins. You have under fender clearance - the front of the bin over the tire hump. If there is not a metal plate there to mount it to under the cladding, you could probably run a ground wire somewhere behind the bed cladding and find a ground.


Now the biggest question - can you install the power antenna without creating a ground loop

Ground loop = engine noise

I had installed a beefed up system in my old Toyota Camry. Had an engine whine in the system. Went through and re-grounded everything in the system and finally tracked it down to the Ground differential from the power antenna on the rear fender. Ended up having to buy an antenna ground loop isolator and killed the problem.

If there is not metal under the cladding I recommend running a ground wire from the base of the antenna to where you have the head unit grounded. This should isolate the ground loop.

If you 4-wheel much - I would recommend the toggle-controlled antenna that Shape Shifter mentioned. If you are using the factory HU you may have a problem getting a turn on lead to activate the antenna automatically. - After Market HU would provide an antenna lead.


Hope this babble helps a little.
Steve
 
Castle_Rock_AV said:
If you are using the factory HU you may have a problem getting a turn on lead to activate the antenna automatically. - After Market HU would provide an antenna lead.

This will be one of the issues with an '03 as there are no tap off points associated with the RAP, so a manual one might be the better option.

Not sure about this for the 02's
 
I kinda just like my stock antenna as I always see them power antennas stuck hav way or bent like a pretzel
 
EarthQuake said:
you could leave the antenna as it is and take the little plastic wrench they gave you in the glove box and unscrew it whenever you're going off-roading.

Is that little plastic wrench only provided if you own a 4x4? If not anyone know what the part # would be?

Thanks.
 
Castle_Rock_AV said:
I would bet that you could not mount a power antenna where the factory antenna is mounted. It seems pretty sturdy and the under cowl clearance would present a problem - as mentioned by Shape-Shifter.
I just took a closer look, and it does not look like it will be possible (or if possible, not at all easy) to mount a power antenna in the stock antenna location.

The stock location is so close to the windshield, that the area below it is not open: it is essentially the continuation of the A pillar, and is a beefy solid area which provides support for the door hinges.

Normally, the stock antenna is mounted further forward on the fender, so that the area immediately below the antenna is the open area behind the fender between the wheel well and the A pillar. Others are mounted on a rear fender where the area below is in the trunk. Either of these locations would generally have enough room for a power unit.

But, as Castle_Rock_Av points out, further forward on the fender won't work because that is the hood:

The fender - or in our case the hood - since it drapes over the corner - is probably not the best place to mount it. If the antenna was up and you opened the hood it could break the antenna or bend the hood where it mounts.

That leaves the rear fender:

I was thinking somewhere in the back in front of the rear side storage bins. You have under fender clearance - the front of the bin over the tire hump.
There is not a lot of depth in the compartment over the wheel wells. You might be able to find a special version with a short overall length under the fender, but the typical standard design is likely to be too long to fit.

The area behind the wheel is certainly deep enough, but that is the area below the side compartment openings. Again, not a practical mounting location.

One area that might be a possibility is just a little further back by the grab handles: just forward and inboard of the handles is a triangular flat recessed area. That could be a good mounting point. The area below is inside the fender, between the storage compartment and tail light.

The real question is how much room is back there, and how do you get in there? I fear the only way to get in there is to remove the inside wall of the cargo box. I hope not.

Of course, if this location is contemplated, one would have to be careful to always make sure the antenna is lowered before opening the storage compartment. (Take a look at the location, open the compartment, and you will quickly see why I say this.)


Now the biggest question - can you install the power antenna without creating a ground loop

Ground loop = engine noise
You bring up some very good points about ground planes, ground loops, and noise. Hopefully this will not be an issue, but it may be a moot point unless a good mounting point is found. :6:


Skidd said:
This will be one of the issues with an '03 as there are no tap off points associated with the RAP, so a manual one might be the better option.

Not sure about this for the 02's.
Yes, a manual antenna may be the best for an '03. One could simply attach the control line of an automatic antenna to the regular switched power, but that could be a problem when trying to listen to the radio after turning off the ignition. When the ignition is turned off, the antenna will lower, but the radio will continue playing on RAP, but without an antenna.

For an '02, which does have a place to tap into a RAP circuit, an automatic makes more sense, especially if one uses a switch to turn off the antenna manually if the radio is off, or playng a CD.


Using the plastic wrench to remove the stock antenna may be the simplest solution. (Now if only I had recieved one of those wrenches with my truck.) :p

A shorter euro style antenna is another option that is becoming more attractive.

-- SS
 
I was thinking about a power antenna also, so started checking out the Caddy's Ext and Escalade. Has anyone noticed that the Escalade does not have a radio antenna? I work at a GM plant and there are few of them in our lot. The Ext has an antenna, but the Escalade does not. (Or do I have that Backwards?) Any way, I asked a service tech and was told that the antenna-less caddies use an antenna grid between the headliner and the roof. Supposedly the sunroof negates this option, but I thought I did see an Escalade with the sunroof and no antenna. I have not had a chance to check my Helms manuals to see if this is true or not, but I think it is. ( I even went up to the trucks to see if someone stole the antenna, but they did not even have a mount for it.

Paul.
 
ShapeShifter said:
The real question is how much room is back there, and how do you get in there? I fear the only way to get in there is to remove the inside wall of the cargo box. I hope not.

There is a nice pocket back there, and you are correct SS, the side panel has to come out to get to it.
It took me about an hour to get it out and that is working with a bad right hand ( 4 weeks out of surgery on the wrist) when I am right handed. You just have to remove the tiedowns, the plastic, and the one bolt inside the storage box just below the latch, and the inside sail panel.
I am planning on putting insulation all the way around the left storage box,... a friend said, I should just buy a 12V compressor and make it actively cooled,...He's in air-conditioning though.
 
chad2fw said:
I have a EuroStyle flexible antennae, I works great and stays upright for the most part after long trips at high speeds etc.

These work great for off road in the tree's and brush - my stock was always flipping around 4x4ing and I got tired of seeing it flex back and move around when driving.

I love the shorty look :)
 
cost wise this may not be a fix compared to a short flexible antenna, however, any thoughts as to mounting a cb radio style spring for the antenna?

Using Firestik Fiberglass cb antennas I always have used a spring, as the antennas are the best on the market, IMO, however being rigid, they are known to snap or even break the antenna mount off the truck if hung up offroading. The spring elminiates this concern.

As far as it ripping the antenna from the truck.. I doubt this will happen, but I can see the antenna being bent and needing replaced due to certain off road adventures...

Dont know if this helps, or is even a possibility for you, but thought I would post this idea...

Grey_Av




Oh.... some CB antennas are CB/WB/AM/FM and if you have a cb or are wanting to install one, only having one antenna is a possibility...
 
What little plastic wrench in the glove box???

It is orange plastic and has a socket opening to slide down the antenna mast onto the nut that screws to the antenna mount on the fender. It is of disposable quality. I asked my dealer for one when I picked up my Avy on delivery after reading about it on this site. It is nothing that special, and if you ask a salesman he would probally give you one no charge. There is a GM part number. I don't have it handy though. The one nice thing about the plastic wrench is that it does not scratch the antenna nut during install/removal.


As for siting a new antenna location:

1) What do you do with the old mount on the fender?

2) How about hiding a fixed antenna in the sail panel area?

Regards,

SpottyJ
 
Didn't get one of them there Antenna wrenches with my AV - Guess the General ran out.

Anyway - things like this antenna problem drive me nuts. If I were going to build a system I would probably go with a Fuba type antenna and mount it at the rear of the cab in front of the 3rd brake light. Antennas near the engine compartment present special problems due to the electronics in the engine compartment. Alternators do not have to comply with FCC 15.

After the Camry mentioned above - I bought a 99 Avalon. It had a marginal antenna in the rear window. When I had it tinted with 20% metal film - it pretty much killed my reception. A former Manager mentioned the Fuba - which VW used at the time. Took a lot of measuring and nerve to drill a hole in the roof - but the install was flawless except for some stray silicone that left a film that was still there when I sold the car. Could only tell when I was wet.

Problem with the AV is that it is so big that it would be a bee-atch to climb up there to unscrew if you run it through a mechanical car wash. Would not be a problem for me. The closest my AV came to a mechanical wash was when I ran it through the touchless wash to clean the AV after the Colorado GTG in Aug. It was filthy.

They make much shorter versions of these antennae now. Look at the Lexus GS - it is only about 3-4" tall.

Like ShapeShifter, I went out and walked around the AV. The area near the grab handle came to mind - but looks like you put a little more thought in it than I did. The wheel well area is not as accessible as I thought. The storage door goes forward clear to the drain grills.

Think we have exhausted all of the options. I would think that if you really do not like the factory antenna - the best option would be to go with one of the shorter billet type antennas.

 
Skidd,

Wouldn't Holden cars/Ute come with these?

If not ant you really want one I will get one and ship it to you >:D
 
Grey_Av said:
Skidd,

Wouldn't Holden cars/Ute come with these?

If not ant you really want one I will get one and ship it to you >:D

No, they don't... we actually don't have any cars that have a fixed whip type antenna. Everything has a retractable type. Generally speaking the base models are manual (hand operated) and the upper end types are automatic.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll give it a miss. It just seems like too much trouble for a USD$0.02 part. I'll try to get one when I next order some parts from the USA... the I'll be able to give y'all the part number and real cost.... I'm betting that it anin't two cents either. :rolleyes:
 
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