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Subwoofers sounds different

EpyonLanche

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
2,215
Location
Winston-Salem, NC
In my avalanche, I have two 12's in a ported box in the truck bed and its sounds great in the front seats. I removed the midgate. But in the back seats the bass is bad sounding. You can hear port noise and rattle. I noticed that if i moved the box closer to the tailgate the bass get a little better but not the best. I need a suggestions, so anything will help.
 
Epony, believe it or not, your subs will seem to sound a little better when you are a slight distance from them as the bass wave needs a few feet to form (its been a while since installer school so I don't remember the exact physics of it). Not really much you can do for the rear passengers as the bass is basically right on them. Have you tried firing the box in different directions? You could also try wiring your subs out of phase and see how that works for you.
 
I think that Kodiakz is onto something - at least to try out. Try facing them rearwards with the proper phasing. Then try reversing the phase. If your amp does not have a phase switch reverse the Positive and Negative on the sub. Try moving them forward and back. Play around with the placement.

I would think that if you placed it against the rear tailgate - faced backward - you will probably get the best bass - but sort of eliminates the use of the bed. But, even moving a them foot one way or another can make a difference. There used to be an article on sub-placement and SPL at www.teamrocs.com May be worth a look.

Do you have an aftermarket head unit or are you tapped into the factory head unit. If you have a Bose unit - the door speaker wiring has the bass filtered out by the crossover by the "woofer" under the center console - and you may not be getting frequencies you need if you are tapped off of these lines. They also have some screwed up Ohm readings on their speakers that may affect your amp signal.

Is the port forward or rear firing if the sub is faced toward the cab? A lot of time you cannot do a lot about port noise. Sometimes you can enlarge and lengthen the port to eliminate the whoosh-boom but you should use a sub box program to figure out what may work.

Hope it helps - just some ideas..

 
My port is facing the tailgate. I have a Kenwood head unit in the truck now. I built the box myself and yes it does produce port noise.
 
I have found that some porous foam (the grey stuff) placed in the port will drastically reduce port noise while not really affecting the air flow or sub performance.
 
I was thinking, what if I were to cut a long rectangular hole a the bottom of the midgate. would that help cancel those unwanted waves?
 
I tried posting about subs in beds once and got absolutely burned up, but I'll have another shot at it anyway........if you put subs into a trunk, which is exactly what the AV's bed is when shut on both ends and covered, you have a somewhat sealed enclosure with a sub box in it. When they are playing, they are trying with all their might to move air, hopefully to the listener's area so that he/she can hear it. The problem is that the 'trunk' is sealed away from the cabin, and a nearly sealed enclosure itself, so the air is attempting to escape, and the trapped acoustic energy is manifesting itself as vibrations and flexing panels, making the AV sound like its about to fall apart. Dropping the midgate should allow air movement to the cabin without problems at all, but makes the backseat useless. Why didn't Chevy's design guys think about this?? Should car audio be their top priority when designing a vehicle? ;)

To make matters better, play some music that you listen to and hear a lot of noise with, and play it at your usual volume. Track down vibrating pieces of the somewhat flimsy Av interior pieces (it is built better than most Chevy's seem to be I will say in its defense) and remedy the issues one by one. You have two options on a fix for these parts. You can either mass load them, with Raammat or Dynamat, concrete, lead, you get the picutre. This will increase the amount of energy required to make the objects vibrate, thus reducing or eliminating totally the noise issue. The other method is to increase the rigidity of the objects, for example attaching the flimsy little midgate hinge cover pieces to the Av in a more substantial way with hot blue, silicone or whatever adhesive you choose. Either way can get tedious and time consuming, but is well worth the work. You will be tremendously pleased if you can quiet the interior noises; your subs will sound totally different. Human hearing seems to detect what should not be present moreso than what should be present with music. Trained ears can tell if there's a response drop in the upper midrange or a midbass peak that is muddying the low end punch, but any ears will automatically home in on vibration parts that are buzzing and humming. If you ever hear a really good competition car, the subs will probably be impossible to localize, this is in part due to the fact that when objects vibrate, you hear the sounds they make and, being of higher frequencies, they are more directional and help identify where the energy, which is sub bass, is coming from.

Port noise is just as bad and means you are probably not getting the absolute best performance from you enclosure due to restriction. This is not always the case, some ports are just poorly shaped or installed haphazardly to generate the noise. I have seen many cases where "port noise" was in fact a leaky enclosure, a couple times around the ports, and the whistling was the air being pushed through these crevices.

If your box is nicely sealed, except for the ports of course, consider altering their size to allow for less restriction, thus eliminating the port noise. You seem to have a pretty severe case since you can hear them in the bed from the drivers seat. Stuffing foam into the ports will simply add resistance to the ports and alter the tuning of the enclosure, which defeats the entire design goal of a vented enclosure in the first place. I you were to go that route, you'd be better off just making the box a sealed enclosure.

As for the back seat sound quality, this is a common problem. Ignore it. You drive the vehicle in the front seat, so make it your primary concern. The backseat is in a totally different area of the vehicle and if it were optimized, the front seats would suffer greatly. However, getting rid of the vent noise and rattles will definately make the back seat sound much better!

What type of subs do you have, as in model number, what is the length and depth of the ports, and how large is the enclosure? If you don't know the internal size, give me the external and I can calculate the internal from that.

Hope I helped,

DS
 
kodiakz said:
I have found that some porous foam (the grey stuff) placed in the port will drastically reduce port noise while not really affecting the air flow or sub performance.


Kodiakz, when you say port noise, are you talking about that "bomp, bomp" noise that you hear when the woofer hits? i hear this sometimes depending on the low note the sub tries to hit. i have some of this porous foam. i will have to try it out. thanx for the info.
 
DS said:
I tried posting about subs in beds once and got absolutely burned up, but I'll have another shot at it anyway........if you put subs into a trunk, which is exactly what the AV's bed is when shut on both ends and covered, you have a somewhat sealed enclosure with a sub box in it. When they are playing, they are trying with all their might to move air, hopefully to the listener's area so that he/she can hear it. The problem is that the 'trunk' is sealed away from the cabin, and a nearly sealed enclosure itself, so the air is attempting to escape, and the trapped acoustic energy is manifesting itself as vibrations and flexing panels, making the AV sound like its about to fall apart. Dropping the midgate should allow air movement to the cabin without problems at all, but makes the backseat useless. Why didn't Chevy's design guys think about this?? Should car audio be their top priority when designing a vehicle? ;)

To make matters better, play some music that you listen to and hear a lot of noise with, and play it at your usual volume. Track down vibrating pieces of the somewhat flimsy Av interior pieces (it is built better than most Chevy's seem to be I will say in its defense) and remedy the issues one by one. You have two options on a fix for these parts. You can either mass load them, with Raammat or Dynamat, concrete, lead, you get the picutre. This will increase the amount of energy required to make the objects vibrate, thus reducing or eliminating totally the noise issue. The other method is to increase the rigidity of the objects, for example attaching the flimsy little midgate hinge cover pieces to the Av in a more substantial way with hot blue, silicone or whatever adhesive you choose. Either way can get tedious and time consuming, but is well worth the work. You will be tremendously pleased if you can quiet the interior noises; your subs will sound totally different. Human hearing seems to detect what should not be present moreso than what should be present with music. Trained ears can tell if there's a response drop in the upper midrange or a midbass peak that is muddying the low end punch, but any ears will automatically home in on vibration parts that are buzzing and humming. If you ever hear a really good competition car, the subs will probably be impossible to localize, this is in part due to the fact that when objects vibrate, you hear the sounds they make and, being of higher frequencies, they are more directional and help identify where the energy, which is sub bass, is coming from.

Port noise is just as bad and means you are probably not getting the absolute best performance from you enclosure due to restriction. This is not always the case, some ports are just poorly shaped or installed haphazardly to generate the noise. I have seen many cases where "port noise" was in fact a leaky enclosure, a couple times around the ports, and the whistling was the air being pushed through these crevices.

If your box is nicely sealed, except for the ports of course, consider altering their size to allow for less restriction, thus eliminating the port noise. You seem to have a pretty severe case since you can hear them in the bed from the drivers seat. Stuffing foam into the ports will simply add resistance to the ports and alter the tuning of the enclosure, which defeats the entire design goal of a vented enclosure in the first place. I you were to go that route, you'd be better off just making the box a sealed enclosure.

As for the back seat sound quality, this is a common problem. Ignore it. You drive the vehicle in the front seat, so make it your primary concern. The backseat is in a totally different area of the vehicle and if it were optimized, the front seats would suffer greatly. However, getting rid of the vent noise and rattles will definately make the back seat sound much better!

What type of subs do you have, as in model number, what is the length and depth of the ports, and how large is the enclosure? If you don't know the internal size, give me the external and I can calculate the internal from that.

Hope I helped,

DS

I dont hear any port noise in front of the cab, the bass sounds perfect. It just that I was riding in the back seat of my Av and the bass was terrible, I had to turn the radio down because i couldn't stand to hear all that rattle, especially the handle on the tailgate rattling. I have a preety high end system, I have 2 12 Audiobahn Flame Q Compression subs that push a total RMS of 3000 watts and 6000 peak. I have a Rockford Fosgate 1500bd amplifier pushing them in 2ohms. If i can't help the HORRIBLE noise in the back seats let me know, If I need to seriously invest in fatmat, dynamt, or roadkill let me know.
 
"Port noise is just as bad and means you are probably not getting the absolute best performance from you enclosure due to restriction. This is not always the case, some ports are just poorly shaped or installed haphazardly to generate the noise. I have seen many cases where "port noise" was in fact a leaky enclosure, a couple times around the ports, and the whistling was the air being pushed through these crevices."

I agree and disagree. Port noise is often caused by using the wrong size port. However, using some foam in the port does not do enough to change the volumetric characteristics of the enclosure, but can often stifle the 'whoosh' port whistling by slowing the air down just ever so slightly. Now if you don't like what you hear when you sit in the rear seat because you are then able to hear all the little rattles caused by the bass I think you are wasting your time. Any really hard hitting system will vibrate something somewhere in the vehicle no matter how much dynamat you use. I will have to agree with DS here in that you spend 99% of your time in the truck in the driver's seat--make sure it sounds good there and don't worry as much about the view from the rear!!
 
just wondering if anyone has put a sealed sub box in the bed..... I was thinking that since no matter what you do sub wise you need to remove it to use the midgate, why not put a sealed box with either 2 10's or 2 12's in the bed, with the amp mounted under the seat in the cab. I know that the topic talked about in here is problems with ported boxes, but what problems would I have with a sealed box.... mounted just behing the midgate...

I don't care for ported boxes as they give you a very wobaly bass, a sealed enclosure gives you nice tight bass...
 
I don't care for ported boxes as they give you a very wobaly bass, a sealed enclosure gives you nice tight bass...

That is true in some cases, however a properly built and tuned ported enclosure will almost always sound better with the right woofer. There are woofer that sound like crap in a sealed enclosure, but sing in a ported and vice versa. Sealed are a lot more forgiving for bad builders and box deisgn, since there is a natural roll of in the enclosure, ported on the othe rhand is tuned to have an amost 3 db gain at the ported frequency with a much sharper drop above that range, so crossovers and driver choice are a lot more cruical.

I like a sealed box most of the time since they can be a lot smaleer, but if you want to be all that you can be, go ported.

CHristian
 
cjk said:
I don't care for ported boxes as they give you a very wobaly bass, a sealed enclosure gives you nice tight bass...

That is true in some cases, however a properly built and tuned ported enclosure will almost always sound better with the right woofer.

CHristian

A properly designed and tuned ported enclosure can and will sound just as "tight" as a sealed box......I don't know where this myth of ported boxes sounding "sloppy" came from, but I'd suspect that it originated from soooo many badly designed boxes and prefabs with any woofer on the floor thrown in them.
 
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