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Torsion Bars Modification, what is the truth?

Boombastic

Full Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2003
Messages
143
Location
Manitoulin Island Ontario
I read the posts, and got too many conflicting stories.

My questions are:

Do you need a realignment after this mod?

Does it affect handling, if so how much?

Does it affect ride?

It is harder on the front end parts?

Is it harder on tires?

Boombastic of Manitoulin
 
my guys said dont do it,, not worth it,, front end will wear out faster,, not good things for an inch...
 
My .02
Had mine adjusted up about 1.5" by the dealer, said it wouldn't cause any problems but I had to get a front end alignment along with the torison bar adjustment.
 
I have not cranked my bars on my Av but in the past I did crank them on an S-10 pickup that I used to have. I was replacing ball joints every year so that I could get an inspection sticker. Of course there were probably other factors that played into that like the 30 inch tires on an S-10 suspension.

My reason for not cranking them on my Av is that one of the things that blew me away when I first drove the Av, was the quality of the ride. I don't want to do anything that would make it more harsh.

-Mark
 
If they weren't meant to be adjusted and it was going to wear out a front end a lot - I wonder why GM would make them adjustable.

If you crank them up and drive Miss Daisy around town everyday without any other Mod's - I doubt you will have any problems.

If you add larger tires, go 4x4ing and drive your AV in a Non Miss Daisy fashion, I am sure these factors will contribute to damage.

Now the ? is what % of the damage is caused by Mod's, 4x4ing and driving style and what % is caused by cranking them up.

nh_mark - I bet your tires and playing had a lot to do with the damage - the S10 doesn't have a real stocky build.
 
Yup, I agree with Blueruck.

They are designed to accept some adjustments. Now using the Ford keys and adjusting to the max trying to get maybe 2.5", then I think that would cause some problems. But if you want to just bring the truck up an inch or so with the factory keys, go for it!

~bekind
 
nh_mark said:
My reason for not cranking them on my Av is that one of the things that blew me away when I first drove the Av, was the quality of the ride. I don't want to do anything that would make it more harsh.

-Mark
I have not noticed any degredation in the ride quality with my torison bars adjusted up 1.5" ;)
 
3BAV said:
Yes



Will Generally make the truck sit a little higher and will thus move the center of gravity up a bit. So you won't be able to corner or conduct emergency lane changes as easily as before. Now you are only going to raise the truck a bit so depending on what is on your truck you may never even notice the difference.



Yes it will make the ride of the truck firmer in most cases. You will feel more bumpes and cracks in the road.


Yes it will. Now how much is difficult to determine. The parts are going to be put under greater stresses because of the fact that the torsion bar is not going to absorbe a bump as easily as before. So these parts are going to take part of that absorbtion and wear out quicker. How much sooner depends on allot of things. How you drive it, do you offroad? Etc....


If you don't get an alignment after you do this it will be harder on the tires. If you do get an alignment I would say that it will be a little harder on the tires as they absorbing some of the bump now as well.

Hope that helps.

Jon

Fantastic Post!! This is the trust guys no matter how you want to slice it. The issue is not whether the above statements are true but whether your desire to level your front end is so great that your willing to stress your suspension.

I have studied this topic to some extent. Tightening your Tortion bars or installing Ford Keys is not a good thing to do.
 
They are adjustable so they can set the spring rates of the front suspension by torqueing the TORSION bars .......other wise the spring rates my not be correct and you get harsh ride (RAISE FRONT END)

or

Too SOFT and bouncy ride (LOWEr FRONT END)

PEACE
 
When people say they notice their ride is a little harsher there is a very good reason for this. When you lift your front end via tightening the torsion bars or installing the Ford Key you are increasing your front ends upward movement ability and decreasing its downward movement ability.

So basically when you hit a hole in the road the upward movement is fine but when the suspension springs back and expands, thus forcing the wheels back down, it reaches its limit. That limit is what is causing your ride to be firmer and this is bad for your suspension. Imagine banging two pipes together with the force of the Avalanche's front end weight. After a few years what do you think these pipes are going to look like? Would you trust their integrity?
 
Believe me, if you twisted the t-bars to lift 1.5" and you state the ride is firmer, it has nothing to do with the reaching the limit of your suspension. You may reach your limit if you do 80 of a RR crossing or something and get some air. But by just twisting the factory keys you are not bottoming out the suspension. If that was the case every hole you hit, and you bottomed out, it would feel like you were hitting a curb or something.

Besides why do you think there are the huge jounce bumpers on the Z71s >:D

~bekind
 
If you?re driving your truck on the highway and are certain that you will never have it off road, then I would endorse this idea. I on the other hand do put my truck on the beach and occasionally get the feeling to do a little mudding. This idea is not good for those who are naturally a little intensive on their suspension.

Unfortunately I don?t think this all helps Boombastic :2:

 
What happens when you lift it 1.5 inches is increase the spring preload in the torsion bars....IE stiffer and stronger spring...which makes for the harsher ride.....

And powersurge was suggesting you have moved the neutral spot of the wheel travel...so it is 1.5 inches less down and 1.5 inches more but when the wheel bottoms out by going up all the way through travel you have increased the entire suspenion loading since the SPRING (torsion bar) has a much higher spring rate now.....

SO not only have you increased the spring travel you have increased the spring rate.....

ESTIMATE here....

Say spring rate at stock is 1000 pounds/inch

you crank on them until it is lifted 1.5 inchs......now what has been done is when you bottom out....you have increased the suspenion loading 1500 pounds per side......which could be significant to some components as you will now wear them out quicker by fatigue.....

HTH

yes cranking is a cheap lift but has consequences....
 
I spoke with the service manager at my dealership and he strongly felt that this mod should not be done. He told me nothing but bad could happen doing this mod. One thing is that you will be voiding the warrenty.
 
Sicilianos Avy said:
I spoke with the service manager at my dealership and he strongly felt that this mod should not be done. He told me nothing but bad could happen doing this mod. One thing is that you will be voiding the warrenty.

Voiding the warranty is a crock of Sh*t from this dealer - if you took you AV in and it wasn't level side to side what would the dealership do?

That would be the same as saying anything GM put on the AV that you adjusted from factory settings would void the warranty - humm I adjusted my seats - am I voided now? How about my headlights. If this would void the warranty and was so damaging then GM should make every truck level and put a bead on the threads.

Mine are cranked - Am I taking a risk sure - lets visit this subject when someone has been cranked for a year and has the front end inspected. I tlaked to the guys at my shop (not GM) they build 4x4's and work a lot on GM products - they told me cranking them up is not really a big issue as for wear and tear.


Not dinging you Sicilianos Avy - I think your dealer is full of it - you are just sharing what you were told.
 
... This topic is getting beat to death beyond belief holy man !

... The bottom line is that this cranking torsions scares people because of the old body style chevy's front suspension geometry ... Turning the older trucks up put the front control arms into a steep angle ... Which put the half shafts under stress along with mainly the lower ball joints which would wear out twice as fast if you cranked them up all the way ... The older trucks also would get twice the lift by doing this as compared to the new trucks ...


... The new trucks (1999-UP) have gone to a shallower front geometry and cranking them all the way gets you about an inch... These new angles are shallower stock and shallower with them cranked even more than the old body stock set ... The new truck have bigger lower balls and have new upper and lower arms that are forged aluminum tubular type in which the half shaft can achieve a near straight shot to the hub ....

... My opinion is this ... And also the opinion of my friend, a GM shop foreman for 15 years who now runs a Cadillac shop ... As a matter of fact I also ran this by our area Rep who used to teach technicians for GM and he has the same comments I do (that's where I got a lot of my info from) ... He owns a 1997 Old body Tahoe and a new body 2001 Z71 Silverado ... He said cranking the torsions on the new trucks won't hurt anything measureable... Just leave 2 threads exposed as this allows the keys to have a solid hold ...

... Now to address motion ... Ya, turning your torsions on the av should give you about an inch ... AT BEST ... If you think an inch adds that much more pre-load then so be it ... These are trucks built to be abused and this suspension has been abused... Believe me, I work behing the GM proving Grounds and have friends that work there ... What this suspension has been subjected to in testing is horrendous... If you use stock components and turn your torsions up, I would say it's equivalent to instead of driving 45 MPH on bumpy roads, that you are driving 50 now ... More rebound, more compression, but well within the limits of the torsion bar and suspension ... Unless you plan on jumping your avalanche, I see no big thing... Now if you are doing things to cause near load-less de-compression, you have bigger worries to address like driveline angles ...

... If you're the casual to moderate offroader all the way down to the daily streeter who wants a more level truck, quit quabbling over this torsion bar cranking ... Just do it, and get it re-aligned ... If you're worried about ride, then run the recommended door sill pressure of 30#'s ...

... It may scientifically cause more stress, but more wear ? ... There are other larger variables that will impact your vehicles life that are more important like how you maintain your vehicle and how you drive it... Those are the type of things that you will see as directly proportional to longevity in your avalanche ... Not turning up your torsion bars a few turns ... If it were a concern, then GM would make them require a special tool for adjustment ... I am at the service drive at least once a month talking to a good friend of mine and in about an hour, half the trucks that come in have their torsions cranked ... My friend says that the ball joints in these trucks don't suffer failures as such ... Believe me A-LOT of peole are cranking their torsions ... IMO as always ...

11H
 
First off all, there is no question that this mod is suppsoe to be bad for your truck
the question is how bad
I have 40+K on my lifted av(8inch CST suspenisin, torisons bars are cranked up all the way with a 3inch body lift and 35 tries(getting 37's next week), 35k which is after the lift, in that time the only problem i have had on my front end is the driver side cv joint boot coming loose twice with the factory boot clamp on(the fix is an easy one, just use a screw down clamp from home depot(like you would use for hoses), and grease up the boot every every 6 months or so, if you notice a little seapege) the other problem is the bearing going bad on the front driver side (this problem happens because of bigger tires and has nothing to do with torsion bar adjustments)
on a side note
I sell New tires and wheels at 10% above dealer cost (huge savings)if anyone is interested hit me up at cjindustry@aol.com
 
Damn, CJ - Post those pics!! Sounds like you got a beast.


Finally, an intelligent discussion on this topic - no consensus, but at least both sides are being heard. My gripes in 2-3 of these prior discussions was all of the "experts" claiming that cranking the torsion bars caused the truck to blow up, the moon to quit rising and dogs to turn on their masters. As 11H stated, we are driving an off road capable machine that has been put through the paces and abused much more than you or I will probably ever abuse it (Blueruck excluded). If we were all driving the latest Yugo Wagon ? I would be much more concerned.
 
You're right Castle this is a pretty good discussion on this topic.
It sure is one that has many conflicting views from people who are very educated in the matter.

So this is the way I see it.
If you drive on a completely flat surface (the highway) how much do you really stress the suspension? Not much. Under this scenerio tighten away and while you're at it add the keys.

If you're an off road junky and frequently max out your suspension movement then there "MAY" be consequences down the road.

"May" is the operative word here. Now the owner has to decide if "May" is a concern they should have.
 
??? I'm assuming that the adjustment can also be made to lower the av right? I'd like to bring mine down an inch in front and 1.5 in the back just to fill in the wheel wells a bit but still enjoy the ride. I also agree that any changes should be accompanied with a wheel alignment, better to be safe.
 
All,

I adjusted my bars up to level out the front end on the advise of a GM certified tech, had it re-aligned and so far (knock on wood) no problems. I have yet to take if off road in any serious fashion but what I have done I taken my time and don't go bouncing through mudd boggs. Now I cannot say nothing will ever happen nor can I say its not beating the crap out of my suspension but the ride is about the same and to date I see no sign of wear. Bottom line, do it if you want and don't if you have concern, I guess we'll all find out later down the road. If anyone sees a black 02 Z71 on the side of the road somewhere in Missouri with the front tires hanging off please stop >:D

dday
 
This may be a distinction without a difference, for most Avalanche owners. I am in no way an expert, so I asked the owner and service manager of my dealership, whom I have grown to trust. (Whitmore Chevrolet in West Point, Virginia). They both told me that it is done all the time, and they have never had a problem. They ordered and installed the ford keys, and adjusted the tortion bars (03 Z71) to get another 1.75" on the front, and aligned it. Now my 285-70-17 MTRs do not rub, it sits level, and there has been no deterioration in ride quality or handling. The ride quality is comparable to my wife's 02 Suburban 1500. My truck is designed for off road use, and carries an extra 250# on the front, with my Stealth bumper and Ramsey winch.

Advice from experience - try it. If you do not like it, it is easily and inexpensively reversable.

Gerry
 
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