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Uncomfortable Cloth Seats - Any Fixes?

steven1955

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
201
We've been researching the purchase of an Avalanche for some time, and we are actually on our second 24 hour test drive.

The first test drive was a fully loaded 03 black cladded with leather, and the comfort was OK, but we don't like leather. Too hot in summer and too hard and cold in winter.

I then sat in a blue 03 with the cloth benches and found the seat immediately uncomfortable. There was a lump at my lower back.

Tomorrow morning we return a green early build 03 demo with the cloth buckets. I found the seat comfortable as I test sat at the dealer for 10+ minutes, so I agreed to take the truck home to show my wife.

We live about 45 minutes away from the dealer. By the time I got home my shoulders hurt. What appears to be the case is that there was not enough lower back support, so the very firm padding up at the top of the seat forced me to hunch forward. Unfortunately, the cloth buckets are 6 way without adjustable lumbar support. By the way, I am an even 6 feet. My 5 ft 4 in wife found both front seats to be very comfortable.

The above was yesterday. Today I drove another 2 hours or so and found the same problem, and right now at the computer my neck is aching slightly.

So here are my questions:

1. Is there a chance that early build 03 seats are different than late build 03s? Maybe just eliminating this particular Avalanche and going to a newer build would be more comfortable. This, being a demo, could be a great deal, although its no deal if it hurts me.

2. Has anyone reworked the cloth buckets, either with GM or aftermarket parts? Are there businesses out there that upgrade factory seats but leave them looking oem?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Oh, and if the attachment works, here's a pic of the Avalanche we're considering.

[attachment deleted by admin larger then 100KB]
 
I just went out and looked. These cloth buckets do not have a knob for lumbar adjustment. Or any other knob for that matter. What they do have is an air bag on the left side of the drivers seat where I would expect a lumbar adjustment knob to be.

This particular Avalanche has the security package, which is primarily the side impact air bags and On-Star.

Do you suppose that when you get the security package (read that side impact air bags) and the cloth bucket seats that GM eliminates the manual lumbar adjustment?

Would some owners of 03 Avs please check on two things for me?

1. Maybe "irontrain" has already done this. Would someone double check to see if their cloth buckets in an 03 without side impact air bags have a manual lumbar adjustment.

2. Would someone double check to see if their cloth buckets in an 03 with side impact air bags does not have a manual lumbar adjustment. If it does maybe they could post a picture of where it is and what it looks like. When I'm being dense a picture is worth 1000 words.

Maybe all I need to do to find a comfortable seat is buy an 03 with cloth buckets but without the security package.
 
You might reconsider your leather thinking. As for too hot in the summer, I am in Houston Texas, where it is summer 8 months a year. Both my Av and my wife's Black Alero have leather and do not find it any less comfortable than my previous cars. As for too hard in the winter, get the optional seat warmer.

I too once shyed from leather (probably from the old vinyl days, 60's and 70's model cars,) but went leather in my Red Av and am happy as a lark. Yep, got lumbar support and side impact air bags in my 2002.
 
Everybody has their opinions about leather vs cloth. Our first 24 hour test drive was in a black Av with leather. Leather is just not an option we like. That being said......

I am hoping someone or sometwo, as requested in my previous post, will confirm that:

1. Cloth buckets + side impact air bags = no lumbar adjustment, and

2. Cloth buckets + no side impact air bags = manual lumbar adjustments

Are the businesses that retrofit lumbar ajustments or rebuild and reshape seats?
 
I have the cloth bench seat. I too noticed the lump in the middle of my back. I finally found the right combination of up/down adjustment to the seat surface to get the "lump" at the right place in my back. Just got back from a long trip yesterday and was comfortable. I'm sure you went through all of the adjustments, so maybe the bench isn't for you?

Good luck with your purchase and I hope you can get a comfortable one!
 
I have cloth buckets in my 03, born on 10/15/02. I do not have side air bags. I do not have any lumbar support. My seat has the control to move the seat back/forward, up/down and the lever to recline it.
 
I'd vote for rethinking leather verses cloth. Before buying my 02 with leather, I tried the all cloth buckets and the cloth/leather buckets----neither felt comfortable. However, once my butt hit the leather, that was all she wrote. I've got my ideal seat postion entered into the memory and my wife has her's so it's only a matter of pressing a button to get your ideal setting back. I've got the seat heaters so they're warm in the winter. My auto climate control is great and I've not experienced the slightest bit of discomfort in the summers---even when it's 100 degrees and high humidity.
 
BUMP.

OK, let's for the moment say that we won't rethink leather. That's because we don't like it for a seating surface. We like and want cloth. Leather is great for steering wheels, belts, and shoes, though. (We are not members of PETA.)

So, is there anyway I can find a way to make an 03 cloth bucket comfortable?

Anyone know if the late build 2003s cloth buckets are internally different than the early build 2003s?

Would the non side air bag version of the cloth bucket be better?

Should I look at used 2002s? Maybe the 2002 seats are better. But from what I've read, the 2003s fixed a few problems and I thought I'd be better off with a 2003.

We are trying to make an Avalanche work for us, and now the issues are seat comfort and money. And with the rebates, money is not likely to get much better. Also, my wife went from "its not a practical vehicle for us" to "I'm surprised, but I really like this truck". So if we are going to do this we had better strike while the iron is hot.

 
Hello Stevens1955,
I totally agree leather seats are most definitely not what I like. If it came to a choice of a Avalanche with leather seats and any other vehicle I would be buying cloth seat covers. One thing I did notice is that you keep mentioning cloth buckets while others have spoken about the cloth bench seat. Usually the two types feel quite different. Unfortunetly it is true that the Lumbar support is gone in the cloth bench seats for 2003. I however do not know if lumbar is gone in the cloth buckets. Sorry if this doesn't help because Lumbar might be gone in both bucket and bench. Anyone out there with a cloth bucket seat 2003 truck with Lumbar support?
 
My situation is the same as Q's post on the previous page. I have a 2003 with out side airbags and with cloth buckets and there is no lumbar support knob. What about those back supports that you can put on your seat sort of like seat covers? I remember when I was a kid (15 years ago) my Dad always used one when we drove to go on vacation. He had a disk removed from his lower back, so he had lower back pain. Just a thought though. I have no idea if they really work. Good luck!
 
I have An 03 with the leather option, after taking a test drive with both the cloth buckets and the leather the leather seemed much more comfortable to me. They have multiple lower and upper adj., power side lumbar,power lower back lumbar, seperate heat for the seat and back, and memory buttons for two separate drivers. Some post have noted that they may be to adjustable but when you finds that sweet spot you can lock it into memory. Also if you have kids nothing is easier to clean. Just a warm towel wild some mild soap and the juice,candy and everything else comes clean. Owned a 96 Surb. with blue leather which two infants grew up in and the seats looked almost new when I sold it.. Just my 2C.
 
Last night I went to the local dealer and arranged to sit for at least 15 minutes undisturbed in a recent build 03 cloth bench, a recent build 03 cloth bucket, a recent build 03 leather bucket, and a used (47k miles) 02 with cloth buckets. I compared that to the comfort of the previously tried early build 03 bench, cloth buckets, and leather buckets. Remember that I don't have enough data to make this statistically significant. Here are my observations:

1. 02 used cloth buckets: Most comfortable of all. The adjustable lumbar was worth having. Why did they have to get rid of it?
2. Early build 03 cloth bench: Uncomfortable due to a big hard spot at the lower back. Only needed 2 minutes to hate that particular seat.
3. Late build 03 cloth bench: Wins second place. Did not have the hard lump the early build 03 bench did.
4. Early build and late build 03 cloth bucket were the same: Soft in the middle back, caused me to hunch forward and made my upper back and neck sore. Lumbar support would have fixed this.
5. Early build and late build leather buckets were the same. Shape was comfortable, and the adjustable lumbar support was nice to have. I wish this seat was available in cloth.

So if I buy a new 03 Avalanche today I would buy the cloth bench. If I could retrofit lumbar support I would buy the cloth buckets.

Are there any GM parts guys (or gals) out there who see if the 02 and 03 bucket seats are similar enough that I could retrofit lumbar support to an 03 cloth bucket?

Anyone out there with a damaged 02 seat with manual lumbar that could be donated for its lumbar mechanism?
 
what about seeing if the dealer could replace the driver's side seat with the leather seat (with all the options) but change the cover back to the cloth? might cost you a few more bucks, but u could have the best of both worlds.. options of the leather seat but not leather..

just my $.02
 
Ahhhh, the continuing seat saga. ?I don't mean yours specifically. . . just that there are a few people, including myself that have had problems with the seats . . . both cloth and leather.

Many people know this story, and, so for them, I apologize in repeating it. ?

I had an 02 Av. ?It was a great vehicle, with very comfortable leather seats. ?I decided to take advantage of the great 03 incentives and traded it in for an 03. ?The seats didn't feel quite right during the test ride, but I thought they just needed some tweaking, as they were a new design over the 02. ?(When I say "seats", I mean my wife also had a problem with both the driver and passenger seats.) ?Turns out, no amount of tweaking would get me to a comfortable, pain-free position. ?After a while, these seats were causing me to have crippling lower back pain. ?It's not an issue of defect. ?It's an issue of design. ?So, neither the dealer, nor GM would offer any recourse that I was satisfied with, at the time. ?

I went to an upholstery shop and discussed the problem with them. ?They gave me some pieces of upholstery foam to place in different places on the seat back AND bottom. ?The angle of the seat BOTTOM can be critical in preventing or causing lower back discomfort. ? At the time, I could not come up with a combination of foam placement to get to a comfortable, pain-free position.

My next stop was a back pain seating retailer. ?These people were medical professionals, had great insight and advice, and had a huge selection of seat / back pads, as well as other related products. ?I tried every steenking product they had, adjusted about every way possible. ?Still, no solution. ?

I went back to the upholsterer's foam and finally came up with a combination that worked. ?It took a couple of frustrating months to get to this point and I am now satisfied. ?It looks like hell, but I am comfortable and pain-free now. ?I decided not to get the foam incorporated into the seats, as the contour would most likely not be easily duplicated . . . and it would be very costly.

On the leather seats . . . there was a design and mfg. change from the 02 to the 03. ?GM confirms this. ? Within the 03 production year, there are mfg. differences in the seats. ?The post 12/02 and 1/03 models are slightly better for me. ?Mine is a 9/02. ?Also, within a given production run of seats, you can find considerable variation. ?Although I was pretty tweaked about the whole seating thing at the time, my dealer was willing to trade another Av in to his dealership and scavenge the seats from it, if it met my needs. ?I think that was great of him . . . trying to find a way of resolving the problem.

So, make sure you try the seats out for an extended period. ?If they are not comfortable enough, you have a decision to make. ?Either the Av is not for you, or you are going to spend time and money in getting the seats corrected. ?Depending on where you go and what the solution is for your particular seat problem, the cost could either be minimal ($30 per seat) or substantial ($400 per seat).
 
Couldn't resist a comment here. I've got an '02 with cloth buckets, electronic adjustments and lumbar support. Even with all the adjustments I found the seats to be really uncomfortable. I played with the adjustments for about a month before I found a position that was somewhat comfortable. Still on long drives my right leg tends to fall asleep. (I'm 5' 9" & 185lbs)

Anyway after driving my Avalanche for a month I decided that I should take the trusty '97 Silverado pickup out for a day. Ye Gods! Even after 89,000 miles the driver's cloth (same controls as the Avalanche) seat feels like a 'Lazy Boy' when compared with the Avalanche seat. It is SO MUCH more comfortable than the Avananche seat it's unbelievable. The quality of the Avalanche seat simply can't compare with the Silverado seat.

I found myself wondering if I could find a set of Silverado seats and swap them into the Avalanche.

I have no idea what it would take to swap Silverado seats into an Avalanche but it's certainly a tempting idea.

Does anyone have an idea of what level of hassle would be involved with swapping Silverado Pickup seats into an Avalanche?? I expect it would be a major headache.



Happy driving!

 
Shimok said:
Couldn't resist a comment here. ? I've got an '02 with cloth buckets, ?electronic adjustments and lumbar support. ? Even with all the adjustments I found the seats to be really uncomfortable. ?I played with the adjustments for about a month before I found a position that was somewhat comfortable. ? Still on long drives my right leg tends to fall asleep. ?(I'm 5' 9" ?& 185lbs) ?

Anyway after driving my Avalanche for a month I decided that I should take the trusty '97 Silverado pickup out for a day. ?Ye Gods! ?Even after 89,000 miles the driver's cloth (same controls as the Avalanche) seat feels like a 'Lazy Boy' when compared with the Avalanche seat. ?It is SO MUCH more comfortable than the Avananche seat it's unbelievable. ? The quality of the Avalanche seat simply can't compare with the Silverado seat.

I found myself wondering if I could find a set of Silverado seats and swap them into the Avalanche.

I have no idea what it would take to swap Silverado seats into an Avalanche but it's certainly a tempting idea.

Does anyone have an idea of what level of hassle would be involved with swapping Silverado Pickup seats into an Avalanche?? ? I expect it would be a major headache.

Happy driving!

A couple of comments . . . .

Some leg pain and numbness problems in many seats, not just an Avs, can be attributed to either seat bottom angle and/or the insufficent seat bottom padding toward the back. ? To find a workable solution, you have to do some experimenting:

1) Sometimes leg pain or numbness is the result of prolonged leg pressure by the edge of the seat or seat frame, caused by an incorrect seat bottom angle. ?Try angling the seat bottom so that it's low in the front and high in the back. ?You are trying to get the maximum "tilted forward" angle. ?At first, this seating position might feel a little awkward or that you are rolling forward out of the seat, but your hips and lower back will quickly adjust to this after a few minutes. ?

2) In the absence of sufficient seat bottom angle adjustment, try placing a small section of substantial foam rubber on the back half of the seat bottom. ?Your goal is to maximize the "tilted forward" seating position, by raising the back half of the seat bottom. ?Experiment with different thicknesses to try to achieve the desired result.

3) If neither 1 nor 2 work for you, try going to an orthopaedic device specialist who can provide a range of devices to experiment with. ?These might include various seat bottoms and/or backs, or other related products.

4) Generally, I wouldn't recommend an auto upholsterer as a source for a solution. ?You could be talked into a costly solution that doesn't really solve the problem.

Try these suggestions, as you see fit, and let us know how things turn out.


On the Silverado seats . . . . My dealer offered to change my seats out for Av, Suburban, or Silverado seats . . . basically whatever worked for me. ?I found a Silverado on the lot that worked. ?The parts department tried to correlate the Av seat P/N with that of the Silverado, then make some direct comparisons. ?According to them, the wiring harnesses for the power seats, within the same model year, are completely different. ?In order to use the Silverado seats, they would have to do a hack job on the wiring harness. ?So, it turns out, that was not a clean, and hence, viable option.
 
I am like you, I find cloth seats much more comfortable than leather as far as the surface.

my 2003 cloth seats dont have much lumbar support.

I bought a $10 seat cushion from Walmart that seemed to help.
 
imaniguana,

I understand what you're saying on the seat angle. I've found that I can correct the 'dead leg' syndrome by tilting the seat slightly forward as you suggest.

Thanks for the update on swapping in the Silverado seats. I kind of figured that would be the case.

Still find it incredible that the Avalanche designers did such an incredibly poor job with the seats. I hope if any of them are 'lurking' out there they get a clue for future models.
 
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