• If you currently own, previously owned or want to own an Avalanche, we welcome you to become a member today. Membership is FREE, register now!

Update On Install, Brown Bread Comments

S

sreidvt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2002
Messages
107
Location
southeastern Vermont
CDT braxials and Brown Bread arrived yesterday and today I made some time to start installing the BB. ?Here's what I've found so far for what its worth:

1) DS was right about the fillet gloves. ?I did the whole inner panel of the FR door (almost every square inch) and did not cut up my hands because of these things - highly recommended.

2) I found the release on the BB backing paper to be perfect when the BB was preheated with a blow dryer. ?It held just long enough to get things in place but I was able to pull it off in tight spaces because it would release easily when needed.

3) The GM door panel fastener things are actually a pretty precise fit (a little surprising). ?I originally folded extra BB into the slots after cutting the openings but the door panel wouldn't seat that way. ?I needed to completely clear the slot as well as about 3/4" below the slots. ?On my truck at least, those plastic holders will only seat if they're right up against the door sheet metal (they won't allow for the extra thickness of the BB).

Pics so far: http://www.motorcycletours.com/av/audioinstall.htm
 
When I originally installed the Polks in the front doors, I removed the GM plastic attachment and made mounting holes directly in the sheet metal (using a gasket between the woofer frame and the metal). ?The CDTs are just a bit too big to fit in the sheet metal hole so I'm going to look for an adaptor which projects out slightly and has a larger opening (sort of like a very shallow funnel). ?I'll also look at the factory plastic gismo again.

The factory hole in the fiberglass door panel is a bit smaller than the CDT circumference (which I imagine would cause some refraction) so I'm going to enlarge that as well (by about 1/2").

QUESTION: ?There certainly is water getting down into the doors from the window glass, etc. ? I've heard pros and cons on the acoustic effects of using baffles. ?Would love to hear people's experiences with these. ? I wonder if the reduced air volume (of the baffle) would help or hurt the sound. ?

Sean
 
Glad the gloves worked out, those door panels are extremely sharp. I'm getting ready to get started BB'ing my truck soon as well. Keep us informed on the install.
 
As far as the baffle for the midwoofer affecting the sound, it certainly will. Cliff Designs does not publish Theil-Small parameters online, as far as I can tell, so running the specs through a program to determine the affects of a tiny enclosure vs free-air in the door will be impossible. The best thing to do is give them a try, and see what happens. Do this after the speakers are well broken in, as they will change sonically with time due to usage loosening the suspensions after break in. Try the speakers with and without the foam protectors. If you don't like the sound with them sealed in the foam protectors in place, modify them to prevent water from falling on the speakers while still allowing for air flow. If anything, I would expect the drivers bottom end to be affected the most with less operating volume. When you test them, listen to whatever track you like as a reference at the volume level that you are comfortable with on a daily basis. Turn the head unit off without touching the volume or any adjustments during the comparison, to keep things on equal ground.
 
Thanks DS, that's good advice as usual. While I'm breaking in the speakers (sans baffles) will the moisture do them any harm? These are more expensive than my past speakers so I want to be more careful. Maybe I should just start out with baffles that I modify to be open on the bottom? What are you planning to do for yours?

Cheers,

Sean
 
Sean,

As far as the baffles are concerned, I'd just cut the bottom out. I doubt that much water gets into the doors, but I've never checked. You could just cut the bottoms out so that air could flow freely but water would still be kept from falling down onto the drivers themselves. If you want to, you could always fiberglass them or coat them with some epoxy resin, like the stuff you coat furniture with, to make them stiff and more water resistant. I've fiberglassed them before and used them as tiny enclosures for 4" and 5 1/4" speakers.

The baffles could be used to "tune" the 6.5's if you experimented with them enough and had the desire to do so. Having the drivers in the door would be free-air operation for them. Having them in a stiffened foam enclosure would obviously be a small sealed install. The small sealed install will most certainly limit low end response, while the free-air will allow for over excursion due to lack of air pressure behind the cone. If you took the foam enclosures and messed with them enough by venting them little by little, you would eventually hit a "sweet spot" with the amount of air that the driver could move in and out of the enclosure. The pressure created by the moving cone trying to force air through the small openings would create a suspensions of sorts, resisting the reward cone motion and creating a vacuum for the forward cone excursion. This would allow for optimum air flow to enhance bottom end response while limiting excursion at the same time.
 
RocknZ,

Thanks, I didn't make pictures of the outer skin because it looked so darn ugly by the time I was done that I thought I'd wait and photograph the other door.

The BB backing falls right off once it gets below a certain temp but when its warm it holds on just the right amount, I found.

"Critical to cover area between arrows" - very good point, I missed that in my haste to rip the plastic off. I'll look at the left door to approximate the area. Could you explain a bit further how you addressed this.

DS & RcknZ,

This spring I'll probably play with baffle opening size but for now I think I'll just vent them at the bottom, thanks for the suggestion. It does get wet in there, especially in winter when some of the wet slop from the window gets pulled into the inner door when its rolled down.
 
SRE----
Crutchfield had an adapter plate that goes from
6.5 to 6.75
that MAY work for you
as far as the baffels
I tried them in and out and in and out and in and out
My opinion is they sound better off
though they do give protection from moisture
I went with speakers with rubber surrounds for extra protection
 
Let me pose another question for the audiophiles

Alot of emphasis is placed on DM and BB for sound deadening and with any quality install, separating the air from the rear and front of the speaker

With all the holes that are in the DM/BB when it is applied to the door, i would have to say it is not doing all of it's job

I have heard no mention [lately] of the gap that exists between the speaker and the inner door panel

After I filled the gap with weatherstripping,
I can defenitly say there is an increase in Mid Bass
and because the door panel is 98.25% one piece
does a better job of sealing the F/R air
 

Attachments

  • FRT_6_.75.jpg
    FRT_6_.75.jpg
    50.5 KB · Views: 24
I had the right door panel off today to do some measurements for the speaker mounting and made a quick late afternoon picture of the inner (sheet metal) door panel covered in BB. It's on the audiopics page linked in my sig.

I've been thinking about that gap (between the inner metal panel and the removeable fiberglass door panel). There seems to be about 3/4" space there with the BB but w/o a speaker mounted. It seems that I'm going to need to find a 1/4" board to use for mounting which should bring the driver away from the door just enough to fit (it's diameter is a bit too big for the hole). The depth of the speaker rim plus the braxial arm is about 3/4" so I may need to notch the fiberglass speaker hole to clear the bracket (unless my measurements are off a touch and it will just fit). If it will fit without notching the fiberglass door panel I'll make a about a 3/4" thick rubber gasket (notched to clear the braxial bracket) to seal the driver against the panel. What I need really is a giant rubber o-ring which maybe I can find at an industrial plumbing shop.
 
Thanks ZimmsAv,

I spent several hours tonight experimenting with how I could get the speaker shimmed out far enough to fit while still having the whole assembly clear the inner door panel when it was remounted. I measured, cut shims, experimented, re-measured, notched the inner panel (the upholstered one) to clear the braxial bracket, etc. on and on.

Finally I realized that there are only two ways to make these speakers fit in the Av front doors:

1) Cut the actual door sheet metal opening itself so that its diameter is about 1/2" larger. There's plenty of mounting depth but it would be an expensive mistake if someone screwed up the cutting. Then there's the problem of all that metal "dust" scattered all over inside the door - would be very hard to remove. I didn't take this option.

2) Rethink the mounting location all together... For quite awhile I'd been wondering how it would work to mount the driver on the upholstered door panel rather than in the door behind that panel. Did some measurements and drawings and...hmmm...this had possibilities. No guts, no glory so I used a jigsaw to enlarge the factory speaker cutout in the door panel. Then I built out the speaker opening in the door itself (layers were BB, then a spacer of 1/4" cherry wood, then the foam flange of the baffle, then more BB) until it came flush up against the speaker opening in the door panel and sealed against it. On the back side of the door panel itself, I used foam weatherstripping for the final seal. The CDT's fit perfectly and the door panel fit back on the door with no interference. Better yet, the door reinforces the door panel so the speaker actually sits in a very firm mounting.

The speaker is now out above the surface of the door panel so it has a clear shot to the ears. Only the mesh grill stands between the speakers and the ears and the tweeter looks to be in a prime position. I needed to tweak the grill a little to make room for the braxial tweeter but it was doable.

Now that I've figured out how to do this, I can start on the left door and then get the crossovers and drivers all wired up.

Cheers,

Sean
 
Wow....!!!

I've been using my right front door as the guinea pig for this project, testing out modifications, mountings, clearances, etc. So tonight I finished that door completely, BB all in, wiring run, drivers in, crossover set, etc.

So, on the left hand, my stock door with no BB and a decent Polk coaxial. On the right, the CDT Braxial, BB, and all the door mods. Just for fun I sat down to compare the sound and...I was speechless. First of all I felt like I gained two octaves down at the lower end, there were drums playing on one track that I didn't even know were in the recording. But the whole sound was so good it made the Polk sound like it was playing in a tin can. I honestly couldn't believe the difference. I asked my wife, who basically has no interest in audio, to sit in for awhile and even she was blown away. If you haven't done it yet, damp your doors. And these speakers are so sweet.

I hope I'm not boring anyone with all these posts. I'm really getting into this and figure the pics and info. might be interesting to someone.

I'm off to start hacking up the left door panel. This one should go much faster since I know what I want to do with it.

Sean
 
Very nice install pics. After you finish this project, what are your plans then? The reason I ask, is that each project I pour my time into, when I finish it I can't wait to start another one. Good luck with doing all four doors. I know it will sound GREAT!! My problem is vibrations from the roof console and the items in the center console and glove box. The bass shakes those areas to the point the things inside vibrate....solution.....empty all the JUNK OUT!!!! >:D >:D

LOOKS GREAT!!!!! Wanna do my doors?

MOD ON

Wiki
 
Thanks Wiki,

Do you have a heated garage and a ready supply of beer? If so, maybe we can talk. But seriously, I'd go for BBing all your doors - it really does make a difference.

Like you, I live from project to project and the problem is that I own my own business (like yourself) and so (in the off-season) if I'm not careful, the hobby stuff can get in the way of work and that ends up biting me. Actually my next project (if we get a spell with no snow and bare ground) is to finish up a wooden swingset, fort, etc. for my daughter and the baby girl due in March.

Cheers,

Sean
 
SRE---------
Nothing is boring here!!!!!!!!
IF you know it , you enjoy it
If you didn't know it, you learn from it

Now if there was some EASY way to get audio clips accurately on this site. that would be the balls

Nice pics, BTW
 
sreidvt,

1) ?Please expand on any installation tips on the BB install on the outer door skin.

2) ?Porting the baffles. ?Was there a specific amount cut?

3) ?Any pics of the door panel mount of the front speakers from the backside?
 
Hi Maverick,

Q3 first: I happen to have the left hand door handy. ?Pic is now added to web page. ?I used duct tape to hold the wiring flush against the door panel. ?Speaker wire enters near opening for window controls/door locks, goes to crossover and then over to speaker and under the foam tape (to protect the wires).

Q2: ?Yes, there was. ?I'll make a pic of the LH baffle later today (I haven't mounted it yet). ?I didn't do sound tests but instead opened it up as much as I dared while still protecting the speaker from water. ?That said, the woofer sounds fantastic.

Q1: I'll give this some thought.

Caped Crusader, thanks!
 
sreidvt,

I'm not seeing the pic of the left hand door yet but I see you are going to post other pics later.

BTW - This is an excellent post! Great job of explanation and pics to boot.

Really makes me rethink about mounting my Kicker RS6s to the door panel. I was chicken to try it before but it looks very doable.
 
Brown Bread tips, as requested.

1) If this stuff is cold, the backing falls right off. It's very important to preheat pieces with a hairdryer, just enough so the aluminum is warm to the touch.

2) Look carefully at the borders of your inner door panel, if you BB too far out, its a MoFo to get off. I had some showing with the inner panel mounted and had to strip it off. Used hair dryer and Goo-Be-Gone.

3) The outer panel is of course very hard to reach. Fillet gloves mandatory. Use the largest pieces you can manuever so that you can insert and then pull over, some sections can't be reached directly by large hands.
With patience, you can essentially cover almost all of this panel.

4) Watch the lower border of the BB, you don't want to block any drain holes.

Other than that, it's mostly improvisation. I kind of enjoyed it.

S
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top