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Wet Carpet!

A

Av3

Charter Member
Full Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Messages
47
Location
Detroit, Mi
I swept the Av out last night and found the carpet on the passenger side right next to the plastic molding (front right corner) there is a little "ditch" there about 3/4" wide and it was completely soaked. It rained the night before pretty hard. Any ideas where it could be leaking. I'm gonna get the hose out and investigate. :7:
 
Windshield, Door seal, Incoming air vent....????
 
Hey Av3,
If this is at the B pillar that sits between your front and rear door, I have some bad news. Odds are that the leak is not where you think. Run your finger along the carpet where the kickplate is all the way to the rear corner where the rear seat belt bolts into the body. If your carpet is wet along the side and in the far corner, but not along the back where the midgate is, you have a leak coming from the wheel well. This is not noticable immediately because what happens is water enters through the well and above the seatbelt bolt, then travels down under the kickplate and forward to the B pilllar. I am currently working with a dealer to find the fix. Resealing the well has not completely stopped it, and they are still looking into how to fix it. One quick way to check is to spray the well with a car wash wand, then pop the cover off the seat belt bolt. If you see water drops, you have the leak.
 
Ahhnuld...Thanks for the advice, I remember reading the post about the leak in the wheel well. If it's coming from the rear wheel well and is soaking the carpet in the passenger side carpet that's a serious amount of H20!! I work at the Cadillac Assembly plant and have watched the robots apply the sealer in the wheel wells and they miss the seam a good bit of the time. I'll also have to check around the firewall too.
 
:8: :8: Went out to my truck and investigated the back seat carpet on the passenger side and found the carpet is soaked back there too. The carpet around the bolt that bolts down the seat near the mid gate and towards the middle is soooooaked. I took the cap off the seat belt bolt cover and it looks like dried water droplets but I can't under stand that much water coming in through the bolt.
 
It would seem that way, but here is the deal.
Where the seatbelt is bolted on the body actually slopes up about 3-4 inches, then levels out to a flat spot horizontally. The water is pooling on that flat spot, then runs straight down over the bolt, as well as towards the corner. Under the kickplate is a channel that funnels the water towards the front evrytime you hit the brakes. I am set to drop off my truck this Monday, and when I get it back, I will post all info, including any TSBs I find out about. That way, hopefully you won't have to go back 5 times like I have so far.
 
Ahhnuld...Thanks any info would be great. I didn't get a chance test for leaks this past weekend to busy but I am gonna tackle it after work.
 
Went to the shop yesterday. They have the entire right side of the bed wall torn out, and there is a 8 inch square hole that is covered with plastic just in front of where the wheel well is on the side wall of the bed. It is here that you can clearly see where the water would be making entry. They were waiting to see if the job on the seam worked and then would seal the left side well. This test was supposed to happen yesterday, and I have not heard back yet. Not a good sign.
Additionally, they had to remove the track and seals on that side, so I am sure the midgate and/or covers will leak, althought they assured me they would water test without the covers, then with the covers to verify all is well. Jury is still out, I will let you guys know something hopefully soon.
 
fyi - I placed this in the "My AV leaks cont" thread earlier this week...

Dropped it off finally. First thing out of Services mouth - this can take up to 3 WEEKS!!! He pointed out one in the garage and said "that one had been there for 2 weeks already" - waiting for the parts from Mexico. He claims that mine is the 3rd one they have had with a problem out of all the ones they have sold so far - lucky me

I got a call just before noon, and he said the problem was 3 fold, each one contributing in their own way. he claimed that the one I saw in the garage had the same problems. This is what he said they have to do...

1) Replace entire midgate rubber seal - I mentioned that I was concerned that the new seal will get flattened in the same spot over time like the original. He said that the flattening was not the problem, but just an overall poor design. The part I am getting is supposed to be of a newer design. I don't know if that's his opinion or fact though.

2) The wire harness that goes through that area is not properly sealed. They will replace the new pass thru seal.

3) The seatbelt bolts were not properly sealed. They will remove the carpet and seal the area. The carpet will also be replaced.

Now for the best part - since it will take up to several weeks to get the part, he said I can either continue to use the loaner or pick up my AV and come back when the parts are in. He also stated they will keep it in the garage wi th the other one. Since it has been raining almost non stop for the past two weeks here in New England, I opt'd to keep the loaner RELUCTANTLY. I did not want to get any water damage from drivining it around.

So who ever got the Metro for a loaner, be happy - I got a @!#$'ing Kia - no power anything what so ever and some stinky @$$ perfume smell

I'll fill you in when there is more to tell...

Addition...
I called GM Cust. Serv. and they said they only give $30/per day allowance for rentals (you can book it or the dealer). Turns our you can only get economy for this rate, unless you book it for week blocks at a time (at best you can get Grand am platform) - if you go over your week block, you pay anywhere from $35-$45 per day ontop of the weekly rates. So, I am stuck with the Kia :D:
 
I posted this on the other water leak topic:

:D:Here is my last probable update to my ongoing leak problem:

The dealer had at least one side of the bed disassembled in order to trace the water entry from the wheel wells while in the shop last week. I know this because I stopped by to check the progress. They resealed the entire seam and pinch weld inside the well from the top of the well forward, but not the back part. They told me they did both sides. After taking it to the carwash and sparying both wells, water is entering the cab like before, and its pooling up in the hollow space under the midgate drains, so when I turn, you can hear it slosh back and forth.
It is now official, I have a lemon. This was my 5th and final attempt. Either it cannot be fixed, or they just won't fix it. I will be calling the BBB online number to start negotiating the buy back in the morning. If they swap out with a Silverado pickup comparably equiped without my having to put more money up, then I will try GM again. If I am forced to come out of pocket, I will eat it and go back to Toyota. This was my first GM vehicle I have ever owned, and depending on their response, maybe the last. I have tried a Dodge back in 1997, and that turned out to be a turd as well. I can deal somewhat with the cover and midgate leaks, but for water to be coming in through the wheel wells is an amazing feat of poor design. I cannot live with a truck that is meant to go offroad that I cannot even drive when it rains.
:cry:My apologies, but I am no longer a fan of the Av, I will be dropping off the board shortly. I hope all of you do not have the same issues, although in a quite a few posts, i have read similar symptoms, and I would not be surprised if more of you start having the same issues.
I have learned a great deal from many of you, and even have a good friendship started with Helmet, who works downtown with me.
Take care all!
 
Ahhnuld said:
My apologies, but I am no longer a fan of the Av, I will be dropping off the board shortly.
Click to expand...
Hey Ahhnuld,
You know that I have been fully briefed on the continuing saga with your AV, but I am still regretful to hear that you are going to trade it in. I completely understand, and I'm sorry that you have had to deal with all of that.
I suppose I feel fortunate in that I haven't encountered any of those problems. I wish you the best of luck with the last chapter of this venture.
You know if you pick up a Silverado, there is no real reason to drop off the board. There are several Silverado owners floating around in here, and they provide valuable information as well as everyone else.

I'll see you at lunch later this week. (my turn to buy ;D )

helmet
 
Hey Ahhnuld, I know how frusterating dealing with repeat problems on a new vehicle is. How it makes you totally dissapointed in it and how you don't even want to look at it any more. I have been there with boats and cars.

Now that you know about the trouble spots on the Av, Would you consider the option of GM getting you into a 2003 AV if it worked out that way ?

Just curious. I love my AV but I have been having rough idle problems and will take it into the shop for the third time tomorrow. The response I get is that Since no trouble codes come up then there is nothing they can do. That is frusterating.

I hope you get satisfaction either way.

Good Luck
 
:love:Thanks guys for your support.

Xrover,
No, I can't say I would consider another Av at this point, not unless they changed the design of the wheel wells. The one thing that always did worry me was how long the seals and rubber would hold up in the midgate area over time.
I am worried enough about all the engine and tranny problems that GM is having, so they will need to make me a deal I can't refuse to get into a truck.
What really bites is that the Av is the most comfortable vehicle I have ever owned, and it rides great.
I have a bad feeling that I'm gonna get soaked (no pun intended), but if I do, I'm going to get a Tundra, as I originally planned. It is certainly not as nice, but hey, there is something to be said about reliability.
 
Ahhnuld...I understand your :8: My Av went in today for the first of what sounds like several trips to the dealer for leaks. I like the Av for is versatility and style but I am starting to regret not buying a Tahoe Z-71.
 
I posted this in the leaky av posting:

BUT!!!!! I have news!
I called to check on the status, and found out that the GM engineer was indeed there and he had a fix for my issue. The trough is not flat, but slanted from the middle of the truck downward to the pillars so the water goes to the corners. In the corners of the trough are 1/8 inch slots that are supposed to allow the water to drain to the bottom of the truck. These slots apparently got filled with heavy foam used to fill the chassis and body cracks, holes, etc.
The TSB for this states to run a 18 inch rod through them to clear the foam. What the engineer suggested was to drill 2 3/8 inch holes up from the bottom of the body into the trough, treat them with rust inhibitor, and seal a grommet and rubber drain tube that is tapered flat on the end to allow the water to drain out much faster, and remain sealed so water cannot enter to cab from high water, rain, etc.
I asked to talk to the engineer to discuss why my truck seemed to have this problem and no one else needed holes drilled, and was advised that he would not talk to me due to GM policy and was reachable only through the area rep, and would ONLY speak to the dealer. In fact, the service advisor stated that often when the engineers are creating fixes for issues, they will not even release any written info until is comes out in a TSB.

Needless to say, I was greatly skeptical, so I drove on down to see the handywork. I must admit, I was impressed. I saw the drain tubes, which were sealed well, but could not see the 1/8 inch slots. I need to lie on my back to find them. They had just brought the Av back from a long water test on the wheel wells to confirm that the leak was fixed, and indeed, not a drop came in. All the panels and midgate covers were off, so I could see. They are cleaning up and putting it back together so I can get it tomorrow. In fact when I pulled up, I noticed a white Z66 Av with Manufacturer plates parked out front of the service dept., and asked if that was the engineer, which it was, and he was the one water testing. I asked to go over to watch and was told "nope". I asked if the engineer would turn into a pumpkin if he saw me.
At any rate, I am please to announce that I will be able to retain my club membership with pride.

For all of you in the Dallas area, Greg Turk with Huffines Chevrolet in Lewisville 972-221-8686 has been outstanding in working with me on the matter. The biggest problem they had was getting enough information of the design of the water system and having to follow GM policy in repairing the truck, which I believe is why it took so many times to finally get it. The attitude from the dealer was always agreeable and accommodating, as well as them being quite gracious in upgrading my rental vehicle to a truck or full size car at no expense to me. Hopefully my detailed posts will help others pinpoint to cause of the water and a fix for it, so it does not turn into a trial and error experience.
My many thanks to all of you who were supportive and offered advice and information. Any one who wants to discuss my water problem further, please email me at my address listed in my profile.
 
Ahhnuld said:
At any rate, I am please to announce that I will be able to retain my club membership with pride.
Click to expand...
Glad to hear it Ahhnuld! Welcome back aboard! I'm glad you've got this behind you, and hopefully anyone else that encounters the same trouble can now get it resolved quickly.

By the way, did the GM engineer look like this >:D ?

helmet
 
Congratulations, glad to have you staying here with a fixed truck! At the very least hit Helmet up for lunch. ;D
 
Hey Helmet,
Actually, he was like the tooth fairy. I never actually saw him, but I saw evidence of his being there by the fact I saw the AV he drives. After I looked at my truck when the service manager brought it up, the engineer was magically gone.

Hey gandolphxx,
Its funny you mention lunch. Its Helmet's turn to buy next time. ;D
 
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