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Author Topic: Ticking Noise and O Rings  (Read 607 times)

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dna9656

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Ticking Noise and O Rings
« on: July 16, 2019, 20:45:35 PM »

OK, I have a list of parts to replace when I install a new o ring on the oil pick up tube to stop the insesant clacking of my rocker arms. I'd like to know if I have missed anything.

Melling Hi Vol. pump and tube w/new o ring(s)
Oil pan gasket (FEL-PRO)
Timing chain set Prolly Melling or Sealed Power)
New timing chain cover and gasket/ seal kit( Dorman)
Oil diverter (GM)
Oil level sensor (GM)

Please let me know if there are any other parts I need/should repce when I'm in the engine
I understand there are a few timing chains available for the 5.3 it all depends on where your cam sensors(?) are; in the front of the engine or the back.
I have a 2006 L59  flex 5.3. VIN is 3GNEK12ZX6G101883
THANKS IN ADVANCE!!! :thumbsup:

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2019, 03:52:23 AM »

I had the Melling M295HV-324S oil pump, pick up tube and o-ring kit installed a couple of months ago.

My oil pressure is back to being like new again.

Best money I have ever spent on this truck.

Good choice!

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2019, 14:22:59 PM »

I don't believe you need to have anything torn apart to change the oil level sensor.
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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2019, 18:05:54 PM »

Oil level sensor is on the right side of the oil pan.

Probably best to change it out during an oil change when the pan is empty or when the oil pan is removed, if you want.

But the pan does not have to come off to change out the sensor.

 :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 18:08:27 PM by EXT4ME »
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dna9656

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 20:34:25 PM »

I just learned about that oil level sensor today; I was looking over the Haynes book and saw a photo of the sensor on the oil pan. That oil pan isn't like the one(s) I'm accustomed to seeing, the old school ones were stamped out of sheet metal, (apparently) nowadays they are cast aluminum. Thanks for your input, I have the sensor on my list and submitted my order today. Now I just need a place to do the job.
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dna9656

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2019, 11:14:59 AM »

To all that have responded to my post so far; I am replacing the O ring that causes cavitation and therefore must be denying oil to the rockers/ lifters hence the ticking noise because I have already ran all the cleaners, flushers, and transmission fluid to break loose a stuck lifter. So while I am "in the motor" I' replacing all that has a bad rep and the oil diverter GM came up with to divert oil from splashing up on the (for $6.00 I'll do while I'm in there) lower cylinders and increasing oil consumption. I am also replacing the timing chain set (because I have 180k miles) and timing chain cover because my research here says to do so and so does Haynes and GM. To do all that the oil pan has to come off, to get the pan off I have to move the front axle so while I'm doing all that I want to replace anything that should be replaced because it has a bad rep or just proactively. I'm using the same point of view one uses when changing thewater pump when installing a new motor... if you reuse the old pump sure as daylight you're going to be going right back in the motot in less than 6 months to replace that water pump; same as the alternator or that wire harness under the intake....
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redheadedrod

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2019, 19:18:16 PM »

How hard is it to change the oil pump? I am pulling my oil pan because I want it to stop leaking oil and to insure I can get another 30k miles out of it before I do some upgrades.

My current plan is to just replace the pickup tube, o-ring and pan gasket. Never been in an engine but I do stuff like that all the time at work. Just not as complex.

Rodney
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dna9656

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2019, 20:29:20 PM »

Everyone here and the Haynes says you have to move the front axle forward on a 4 X 4 to get the oil pan off, if you're going to go through all that work you may as well do what I'm doing, replace the oil pick up tube, install the oil diverter, the timing chain and sprockets and if you do that you are supposed to change the timing gear cover, so may as well change the oil level sensor while your down there. I got the best prices on amazon.com. The oil pump is driven directly on the crank, get the hi volume one, not the hi pressure. Better to move more oil than move less oil at higher pressure.
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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2019, 05:01:31 AM »

The last project I had done on my engine was having the oil pump and oil pick up tube with included o-ring assembly replaced.

I suggest using the high volume Melling M295HV-324S oil pump kit with included oil pick up tube and o-ring.

This will ensure you are getting the correct o-ring to match the oil pump, as it comes with the kit.

Several months before I had the oil pump replaced, I had the oil pickup tube and o-ring assembly replaced.

While this improved, but did not correct, the low oil pressure situation I was having at the time, the cure was short lived and more drastic action was needed.

To R&R the oil pump, the oil pan was removed.

On an AWD (like mine) or a 4WD, the front diff can be lowered and secured just far enough forward without having to be completely removed.

The cross member under the engine must be removed.

To remove the timing change cover, the water pump and everything on the front of the engine must be either removed or loosened and moved out of the way, including the radiator.

Make sure you have the correct tools to R&R the crankshaft pulley.

Be sure to review the installation videos on the Melling web site for the correct procedures for installing the standard high volume oil pump.

Oil pump alignment and correct torque of the mounting bolts is important.

You can ignore any talk of shims on the standard high volume pump.

That only applies to the high performance versions of the oil pump.

While reviewing your plan and parts list, I think if it were me, I would not bother with the oil level sensor or the oil diverter.

Unless you are getting false low oil level warnings, the oil level sensor is most likely fine.

Those tend to either work or they don't and are not known to be a problematic part.

I would just clean up the one you have while you have the oil pan off.

If the oil diverter is the one I think you are talking about, that part is used to address an issue with the second generation trucks with the Active Fuel Management system, which a 2006 engine does not have.

I would be hesitant to install something into the oiling system that the engine was not designed for.

If I might suggest something that I do not see you have mentioned, I would consider taking this opportunity to replace both heater hoses and the quick disconnects.

The quick disconnects ARE known to be problematic, especially on higher mileage or just older trucks.

You can purchase the correct parts by going to a dealer's parts department and let them pull the parts according to your VIN.

Do not buy aftermarket parts for these and you will be buying the hoses and quick disconnects as an OEM assembly.

When I did mine, I also replaced the surge tank and cap for good measure, which I was able to buy OEM parts on Amazon.

Just for reference, at the time I decided to have the oil pump replaced, my oil pressures were as follows:

Cold oil idle pressure was just under 35 PSI.

Hot oil idle was around 15 PSI.

Cold oil cruise RPM pressure was around 40 PSI.

Hot oil cruise RPM was around 35 PSI.

HOT WOT oil pressure was around 45 PSI.

I never experienced any lifter or any other noises from the engine that gave me any reason for concern.

I was just not seeing the oil pressures I had remembered and I wanted to make sure the engine was healthy and was given the best possible chance of staying that way.

Immediately after the oil pump was changed out, I began to see the following oil pressures:

Cold idle is now 45+ PSI.

Hot oil idle is a solid touch over 40 PSI.

Cold oil cruise RPM pressure is 60+ PSI.

Hot oil cruise RPM is 55+ PSI.

Hot oil WOT is well over 65+ PSI.

While I did not have any engine noises of concern, I have found the engine now runs smoother and does seem to be somewhat quieter.

I also FEEL like the engine is developing more power across the entire RPM range.

I attribute all of this to the fact that since the oil pressure is more like I had remembered, the lifters are now pumping up more firmly than they were when the oil pressure was running so low before the repair.

Also, the fact that the oil pressure is running consistently higher across all RPM ranges, it is a good indicator of the overall health of the internal bearing surfaces.

Before the pump replacement, there was some concern that the engine was just beginning to show it's age at 230K miles and I would soon be looking at an engine rebuild.

I no longer have those fears, even though the age of the engine may eventually catch up with me, at some point.

Sorry for the long post, but I felt there was a lot of information I wished to pass along.

Best of luck with your project.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 05:17:27 AM by EXT4ME »
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dna9656

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2019, 05:28:43 AM »

It might be long but VERY INFORMATIVE! THANK YOU for your input, it combined everything I have read about here all ready but in ONE post VES. 5 or 6. You mentioned Quick Disconnects... are those used on the heater hoses?
Because the OEM oil ring shrinks or breaks down (or what ever it does) the pick up tube cavitates, it's like trying to use a straw with hole(s) in it; on a drink, it lets in air and can't draw oil properly so it just makes that racket kids love to (slurping noises) make with their sodas. Must be a heck of a racket in the motor; point is not enough oil gets around. many have advised me to just drive it, it'll be ok, umm no, it won't be ok because not enough oil gets around, what you describe is exactly what happens, except your lack of lifter noise, i was surprised to read that. So i also have a new set of Melling rockers. I have read about guys finding needle bearings in the oil pan. The OEM rockers aren't as well made as the Melling models, needles cannot escape from the assembly. My ticking noise used to be intermittent like the needles were missing from a lifter and the gap this created would roll around the pinion and at times be located at a position to allow the the rocker to rattle a bit but then it became an all the time thing after the oil got hot. I changed the oil to 10W-40, this helped but was no cure. My problem now is a place to do the work. We have 2 houses, my in-laws rent the one with the garage, they garage is so full of motorcycle stuff I can't get in there until I move that stuff out and over to (no garage, will have to use a costco cover (tent) the new place. There's no heat in there. Any one in the Puget Sound area that would like to come over and lend a hand and get direct experience is welcome, I live in South Kitsap County. Just let me know here on the forum. Again thanks a lot for your input, it is very helpful!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 10:59:20 AM by dna9656 »
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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2019, 06:08:25 AM »

The quick disconnects I speak of are where the heater hoses meet the heater core at the firewall.

The plastic quick disconnects get brittle with age and do not react well when moved around, as when engine work is being done.

Sometimes, they will just break off while driving down the road, dumping all of your coolant out when they do.

A bit of preventative maintenance now will forestall big problems later.

Remember, OEM parts only for this repair.

I can not speak of issues with rockers and such as mine are fine and did not require replacement.

As I mentioned, I had previously had my original oil pick up tube and o-ring assembly replaced due to low oil pressure issues.

While that did help somewhat, the fix was short lived.

Those new parts were replaced with the ones from the Melling kit to insure the proper o-ring was matched to the new oil pump.

I would also like to make you aware of an upgrade to the oiling system that I very seldom see people mentioning.

If your current radiator has the port provisions on the driver's side coolant tank, for the cost of an oil cooler line set and adapter gasket, you can have engine oil cooling installed.

The ports are often included in most radiators for these engines, but are not used on engines without the factory installed engine oil cooling.

You could purchase the oil cooler line set and install this for yourself.

Fishing the oil cooler line set up along side of the driver's side of the oil pan can be a bit tedious and tricky.

But once the line set is in place, you will remove the block off adapter located above the oil filter on the oil pan, install a new gasket that has two distinct holes in it and then attach the other ends of the cooler lines to the two ports on the rear of the driver's side of the radiator coolant tank.

Be advised that the torque setting for the two bolts that hold the line set to the oil pan are quite low.

The torques setting is 8 INCH pounds.

Do not over tighten or you could be looking at a new oil pan.

Mine had been over tightened too many times by oil change techs thinking they were helping me with a small oil leak problem.

Finally, the threads were so messed up I opted to just have a new oil pan installed.

The lines are held in place by a pair of slide clips and plastic safety covers to prevent the clips from coming off.

Your transmission cooler lines are attached in a similar fashion.

This might be a worthwhile upgrade if your radiator is already equipped with the correct ports.

The engine oil cooler is usually an included part of the optional trailer package of some trucks and as a standard part of the Cadillac performance engine package.

Might be worth looking into.
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dna9656

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2019, 16:00:34 PM »

Thanks for the heads up and good advice! i have the towing package; I'll look under the hood tonight and see if there are hoses on both tanks of the radiator, I can also check the RPOs in the glove box, I have done so in the past but can't recall the oil cool clearly.
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redheadedrod

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2019, 19:11:17 PM »

Not pulling the timing chain cover. I have a partially stripped bolt on a bracket I would have to remove. Will cause me a bunch more work to pull it now. It is holding if I don't mess with it. Removing it and reinstalling it could create a more extensive repair...  Since I plan to pull this engine in 2 years I don't want to do any more work than I need. Can the oil pump be changed without pulling the timing cover? If not then I will likely just change the pickup tube, o-ring and gasket.



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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2019, 02:04:25 AM »

Can the oil pump be changed without pulling the timing cover?

No.

The oil pump sits on the front end of the crankshaft and behind the timing chain cover.
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redheadedrod

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2019, 11:49:51 AM »

thank you... Guess just the pickup tube and Oring it is then.
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dna9656

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2019, 16:16:30 PM »

Were I you I would reconsider; consider the the tremendous amount of work required to change the pick up tube, take into account the miles on your truck, timing chains last longer than they used to BUT since you're in there all ready... this is not some thing I want to do twice. So I am replacing the timing chain and gears, the timing chain cover as recommended by GM, and installing a High VOLUME (NOT high pressure) oil pump, pick up tube, in short everything that can go wrong in that space on a truck with the miles mine has on it. I'm not doing it twice.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 09:04:54 AM by dna9656 »
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redheadedrod

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2019, 06:02:21 AM »

Reason why I will only do my O ring and pickup tube is because one of the bolts on the heads that the alternator bracket is bolted to is partially stripped. If I pull that bracket to do the timing cover... I will have to do something with that bolt hole as well as the bolt will not tighten again. Which with my luck will end up meaning replacing the head. My truck runs great right now. I just have a little bit of noise at low RPM on the motor. I only drive this truck in the summer and I am planning to pull this engine in a little over 2 years and replace with a built 6.0. Not going to do anything major to it that I don't need to do. Timing chain and related work is not going to happen in this truck even though it has ~277k miles on this engine. So not going to make an o-ring issue turn into rebuilding this motor... Or replacing major portions of the motor... If that was the case I would just let it go as it is now and let it trash its self.
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redheadedrod

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Re: Ticking Noise and O Rings
« Reply #17 on: August 9, 2019, 02:12:15 AM »

Well, looks like I might try a little something different...

With this upgrade I will likely replace the oil pump, chain, cam and related equipment.

But I will post a different thread for that..

Rodney
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