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Author Topic: sub/amp setup question  (Read 168 times)

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FultonD33

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sub/amp setup question
« on: November 10, 2019, 16:18:50 PM »

I was wondering how I could possibly get more bass out of my system. I have this enclosure with the dual kicker 12s. Is the 4 gauge eBay wiring kit I use a possible issue? I am using a planet audio pl.3000 amplifier with this setup. It is wired exactly how it is in the second link. Could i possibly need a bigger box/port in my box? Using a JVC KWR Double Din stereo. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.rockvilleaudio.com/2-43cvr124rec52k2/

https://images.crutchfieldonline.com/ca/learningcenter/car/subwoofer_wiring/2DVC_4-ohm_mono.jpg
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MS03 2500

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Re: sub/amp setup question
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2019, 23:49:23 PM »

Did you use the 14 AWG Blue Speaker Wire
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redheadedrod

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Re: sub/amp setup question
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2019, 11:25:05 AM »

Just looking at those products I have a couple suggestions for you...

First off there is some conflicting information about what speakers you may be using.

If it is a dual voice coil speaker with 4ohm per speaker it will depend on how you hook them up.

If your speaker leads are connected in serial (One lead goes from one plus to the other negative and you tie to the other + and -) then you are running at 8 ohm total for that speaker.

If your leads are connected in Parallel (Wire running to both + and another to both -) then that speaker is running at 2 ohm.

With same thought in mind... If you run the speakers in parallel (same wire to each positive connection on the speaker, another wire to each - on each speaker)  you will half the ohm of the speakers.

With same in mind if you series the speakers (Run one wire to the pos on one speaker, one to the neg on the other speaker and a wire from the neg of the first speaker and to the pos of the other speaker) you will double the speaker ohm.

So depending on how your speakers are hooked up you could be putting a 16, 4, or 1 ohm load on that amplifier. A 1 ohm load on your amp would be really hammering it and would likely require a much more significant power wire.

The other thing is no way you are getting 1000 clean watts in a true 1 ohm stable amplifier for under $100.

So I would suggest first, make sure you understand the different configurations for your speakers. It will make a difference on how you want to connect to your amplifier. Higher ohm generally means cleaner bass but less powerful, lower ohm generally means dirtier bass but higher output. And the draw on an amplifier is more the lower the ohm pull on it.

I would also throw out that junk amp and get a better quality amplifier. You may also want to consider going with a stereo amplifier as opposed to a mono amplifier. You may find running a good quality stereo amplifier running 400-500 amps with a 2 ohm load on each speaker sounds much better and gives you more bass. Planet Audio, Boss and some other manufacturers are cheap for a reason. You likely are getting no where near that 1000 watts they are suggesting. Especially if you only need a 4 gauge wire for it.

I have 3 12 inch Alpine subs in my midgate running ~ 400 watts apiece using Competition Audio Art 100MS amplifiers. These cheater amps put out a significant amount of wattage for such a small and now 20+ year old amp. When running at full volume you definitely notice the bass... From probably about 3 blocks away...  And it sounds decent too. Not quite the quality of some other subs I have had but still really nice.  (And for $50 a sub during a friends selling off of equipment when they closed their shop... Yea Ill run them... )

Oh and I am running 1/0 gauge wiring, a second battery and a second alternator. Not necessary for the battery and alternator but I have other plans for this truck too that will use that power... ;)

Also one note about how they have those speakers configured... The Speakers are setup in a Series type configuration which means each speaker is seen as an 8ohm load.  The Speaker to amplifier is in Parallel so because the speakers are set to 8ohm apiece the amplifier is seeing a 4ohm load. You COULD also wire that amplifier up with a wire jumped on each speaker to both positive leads and both negative leads but I suspect you will find that amp crying about a 1 ohm load even though it says it will handle it. Running at a 1 ohm load instead of a 4 ohm load should be considerably louder but I would seriously doubt a 4 gauge wire would be enough.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 11:33:42 AM by redheadedrod »
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FultonD33

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Re: sub/amp setup question
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2019, 14:16:45 PM »

I used the wires that came with the subs.

So I should wire them like this? If not reply with the correct link from crutch field please. Thank you for your very detailed response it means a lot but I would love a picture to make sure I'm correct.

https://images.crutchfieldonline.com/ca/learningcenter/car/subwoofer_wiring/2-DVC-4-ohm-mono-low-imp.jpg
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FultonD33

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Re: sub/amp setup question
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2019, 14:17:10 PM »

Also, what amplifier do you suggest?
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redheadedrod

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Re: sub/amp setup question
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2019, 21:59:35 PM »

You can try that setup. That would give you a one ohm load which that amp says it is rated for. I would expect it will really tax that amplifier, possibly create a dirtier sounding bass but should be louder. The only way to know for sure is to try it. You just need to move the wires at the speakers to change it.

As far as amplifiers I would look for something that can power your subs well.
2 x 400 for a 2 ohm load would be your best bet. Then wire the DVC's in parallel as in your second picture but wire each sub to its own channel.

Otherwise you want something that is good for 800x1 into 1 ohm and wire as the second picture or go for an 800x1 into 4 ohm and wire as your first picture.

For best performance and sound I would go with the suggested stereo setup figuring 2ohm per channel at 400watts for that. 300 watts will likely work or 500 will work but with 500 do NOT run them at full gain as you will likely be shopping for new speakers if you run a lot of bass heavy sound.

You could go with a mono amp but you will want to run the crossover no higher than 80hz...

Kicker really only shows Mono Amps to do this setup... You can look online on their site but here are three that look decent to connect..

The best amp for your setup looks to be the KXA1600.1 This amplifier would run your speakers under the best conditions for a mono amp. Would be a 4 ohm load to the amplifier for 1x800 with your current wiring scheme but it lists at $800.

The second best fit looked like the CX1800.1 amplifier. This amplifier would put out 900 watts into 4 ohm as a mono amp. Your first wiring scheme Your speakers could handle that power well enough. The extra 50 watts per speaker shouldn't be a big deal. You would get your big sound and won't need the line level convertor. The LIST price for this one is $449.95

The last one that Kicker I would suggest for your setup might be the CX800.1 but you would have to run it at 1 ohm. At 1ohm it would be 800watts but I wouldn't suggest 1ohm.  You could always get one and see how it goes... If it sounds like crap at 1ohm pick up another one and run them stereo at 2ohm apiece. Then they are putting out 600 watts at 2ohm though so you would need to drop the gains down quite a bit or be buying new speakers. It lists at 249. When compared to the other choices you might be best off with this one, if it sucks at 1ohm pick up another one. You are not much more than the CX1800.1 then for 2 amps with lots of room for more if you decide you still want louder. You could go with 600RMS speakers then. (Never look at peak for power handling.. It really doesn't mean anything for practical usage when compared to your amplifiers.)

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FultonD33

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Re: sub/amp setup question
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2019, 09:00:52 AM »

Thank you for all of your input! I rewired them to 1 ohm and they are MUCH louder, almost make your hair stand up. I do think I need a new amp because there is quite a bit of distortion. How big of a difference would I notice between this class D and this A/B? The A/B seems awfully cheap...

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_158915_NVX-VAD8402.html

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_109701_SoundStorm-FR1600.2-800W-RMS-A-B-Bridgeable-2-Channel-Amplifier.html
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redheadedrod

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Re: sub/amp setup question
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2019, 19:50:32 PM »

Junk amplifier.

You need to go listen to some amplifiers at a car audio shop and see what you like. Most any decent car audio shop will have some decent amplifiers.  To run your subs well you are going to have to spend some cash.

Almost better off checking your local craigs list or facebook market place for used amplifiers. Just make sure they work before you buy them. These no named amplifiers you are buying are not really what they say they are. They are cheap with over rated specifications. They will either sound like crap, have no real output, or last a real short time.

I used to go to any car audio shop I could as well as check out the car audio magazines. See what units they are using and go from there.
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FultonD33

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Re: sub/amp setup question
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 17:42 »

Thanks for all the input! I couldn't seem to find any good ones online so I might go look elsewhere.
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redheadedrod

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Re: sub/amp setup question
« Reply #9 on: Today at 07:32 »

Crutchfield does have some decent amplifiers too if you have problems.

A brief look through Crutchfields amplifiers and they should be quality amps. I wouldn't buy the cheapest units they have but names you recognize such as Sony, Alpine, Kenwood, Kicker etc. I can't say that I saw any Junk amplifiers on their site but I only looked for a minute.

For instance I would suggest getting two of these amps and running each of your speakers off one in 2ohm mode. They really don't have any 2 channel amps I would suggest running a subwoofer with.
JVC is a decent Brand on the lower end but not one I recognize as great.  You can find much better amps at higher pricing but depends on what you want do do. With this amp and your speakers set as 2ohm (Your second picture with each speaker going to its own amp.) you will get a good match to your speaker's 400 rms rating.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_105DR3001D/JVC-KS-DR3001D.html?tp=35834

You will be paying near $400 but you should be well matched to the speaker and that unit doesn't require the line level convertor either. And it looks like the one review the person had is using your same subwoofer. Note that I said you would want 2 of these amplifiers to run your speakers...
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