EXT4ME
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Full Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Messages
- 6,122
As a follow up to the recent installation of the oil catch can, I can say as of right now, after having this device installed for the short period of time it has been working, I probably have found the source of some of the problems with my engine.
The problems I am referring to are a random tapping at cold start up that I tried to address by having several broken exhaust manifold bolts and both exhaust manifold gaskets replaced.
While this repair may have had limited effect, it certainly did not stop the tapping altogether.
A second issue I have been dealing with has been a very slow loss of coolant.
Using a radiator pressure tester I bought from Harbor Freight, I was able to locate and fix several external coolant leaks, all of which were fixed by tightening or replacing several hose clamps.
Even with all of the leaks that I was able to identify and repair, I was still presented with a very slow loss of coolant.
Whenever I was doing other maintenance on my truck, I would often install the pressure tester and leave it in place in hope of locating another external leak.
The pressure always very slowly dropped while I was testing, but no visible coolant leaks were ever seen.
I am now convinced the slow drop in coolant pressure was due to the internal coolant leak, possibly due to a leaking head gasket.
The next issue was a strange accumulate of some type of debris both inside the bottom of the oil pan and most recently inside the bottom of the oil filter.
This strange substance was first discovered around May 3, 2019, when the engine had about 9,000 miles less than it does now.
On the day this stuff was first discovered, I was in the process of having a new oil pump installed in my engine to address some issues with low oil pressure.
Previous to this day, I had already had a new oil pickup tube with included o-ring installed to address low oil pressure.
There were no obvious signs of abnormal debris in the oil pan sump during the replacement of the oil pick up tube and o-ring.
This repair did appear to improve the oil pressure, but the low oil pressure returned before the next oil change.
I had a new oil pan installed shortly afterwards to address some pretty good oil leak issues, including a persistent oil leak I have had at the location where the external oil cooler line set attaches to the oil pan.
The two bolt holes where the oil cooler adapter is installed had long since been stripped out so much that they could no longer be repaired enough to hold the adapter.
During the replacement of the old oil pan, no strange debris was noted in the sump of the old pan.
I feel the existence of the internal coolant leak was either non-existent or extremely small, at this point in time.
I now think the coolant leak may have begun between the time the oil pick up tube was replaced and the time between when the new oil pan was installed and the new oil pump was soon afterwards installed.
Each time the oil pan was dropped, I had the oil changed and a new oil filter installed.
Some of these oil changes occurred during a shorter time and mileage period than I normally would have done.
The last time the new oil pan was dropped was to install a new oil pump to address the latest drop in overall oil pressure.
It was thought that the OEM oil pump was worn out and due to be replaced.
I had dropped the EXT off at my mechanic and was expecting the job to be completed some time the next day.
I later received a text with pictures and a request to swing by the shop to see what they had discovered when they dropped the oil pan.
They scrapped out the gunk and placed it in the upper potion of the oil pan to get a better picture.
At best guess, this stuff covered a layer on the bottom of the sump approximately 1/2" deep.
It is extremely likely that this junk was blocking the inlet of the oil pickup tube and was being drawn into the oil pump, as well.
The accumulation of this stuff probably explains why I was seeing better oil pressure for a while after the replacement of the oil pick up tube and o-ring, but the oil pressure began to drop a short time period afterwards.
Below are some pictures of this gunk we found in the oil pan.
Remember, you are seeing the inside of a brand new oil pan with less than a normal 7500 oil change interval on the oil.
More likely, there was closer to 4000 miles on this oil/Lucas mixture.
At the time we first discovered this debris, I had convinced myself that this stuff was a result of me having listened to my mechanic, and in a weak moment, I had allowed a quart of Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer to be added to this oil change.
I now no longer to believe that to be true, but I will continue to refrain from using any additives to my oil.
I do not feel there is any benefit.
At the very next oil change, we ran a bore scope up into the oil drain hole on the oil pan to see if there was any new debris in the oil pan sump.
There was none to be seen, adding to me being convinced the debris was a result of the Lucas.
At no point did we bother to cut open an oil filter.
I now think that may have been a good idea.
With the installation of the new oil pump, my engine has consistently had much better oil pressure at all temperatures and RPM's.
I have noted that, even though I had not previously noted any valve train noises, the engine did appear to run a bit quieter and power did seem to come on smoother and just better.
After the installation of the new oil pump and the successful repairs of the engine oil leaks, which also included replacing the rear main seal and rear main seal plate, I was now able to return to my normal oil change interval, which usually meant changing the oil and filter at around 7500 miles.
The oil change I just did occurred at about 20% oil life remaining according to the oil monitor.
Probably around 5000 miles.
Sometime between the last oil change and this most recent one, I began to notice the cold start tapping coming from the engine.
Upon examining the exhaust manifold bolts, I found a couple of the bolt heads missing and obvious signs of some exhaust leaking around the gaskets.
I opted to have all of the broken bolts extracted and new bolts and gaskets installed.
There was some improvement in the cold start tapping, but it never totally went away.
The cold start tapping was random and would not be there for several days and then return for several days running.
Sometimes, the tapping would last for a very few seconds and other times would take as long as 5 minutes before totally going away.
Someone here had mentioned that they had changed their oil and they had installed 10W-40 oil and they reported a reduction in their valve train noises.
I have always run Mobil 1 5W-30 and a NAPA Platinum oil filter.
This most recent oil change, I decided to use Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage to see if that would help with my leaking down lifter(s) issue.
Much to my pleasure, the tapping stopped a couple of days after the oil change and has not yet returned.
I now attribute the cold start lifter tapping stopping due to the coolant contaminated oil being finally flushed out of the lifters.
I had set the oil filter off to the side and did not use my oil filter cutting tool to open the filter right away.
A couple of weekends later, I changed the oil in our GMC Acadia and I saw the EXT filter sitting there where it had been draining for the past week or so.
When I got out my filter cutter and cut open the NAPA Platinum oil filter from the EXT, I was shocked to see the bottom 1/2 inch or so of the oil filter can was covered in some strange debris.
This debris was somewhat like the previous debris we had found in the sump of the oil pan a while back.
This mess would not pour out of the bottom of the oil filter and I had to scrape it out with a screw driver.
The top layer resembled a thick, black tar-type substance while the layer closest to the bottom of the oil filter appeared to be almost like a gritty dark fudge brownie looking material.
The pleats of the filter material were covered in thick, black stuff that did not run off. as the pleats sat in the drain pan.
I recalled that the engine oil that I drained was black, but it drained from the engine without any noticeable clumps.
I let the oil drain from the engine for quite a while.
I did not feel the need to use the bore cam to view inside the sump.
I wish now I had and I will be doing so from now on, at least until a fix to stop the coolant leak has been accomplished.
Recently installing the oil catch can was a result of someone here indicating I might be seeing the stuff in the oil filter due to a high level of crankcase blow by gases.
This sounded reasonable to me and I figured installing the catch can might yield some clues.
Boy, did it.
With running with the oil catch can for around one tank worth of fuel, it would appear my engine has some sort of internal coolant leak.
I'm leaning toward a leaking head gasket, but with my luck, it may be even more serious.
When I first checked the dipstick on the catch can, I saw what looked like water condensation on the stick.
I went ahead and opened the catch can and found 2 oz. of a brownish-pink liquid in the bottom of the can.
Now, bear with me when it comes to colors, as I do have some color deficiency in my eyesight.
I do check my engine oil with great regularity and the level of the oil has always appeared to be steady and full.
The appearance of the oil has always looked to me to be normal, with no apparent cloudiness or signs of it having the classic milkiness associated with coolant being mixed into the oil.
However, I had my wife take a look at the oil and the engine coolant and she indicated the clear, un-milky oil on the engine dipstick had a slight pink hue to it.
She indicated the contents of the oil catch can was a milky brown color with a pinkish hue to it.
Oh, joy.
So, it is now my assumption that the coolant leak (hopefully from a leaking head gasket, but possibly from a cracked head or a crack in the engine block) is allowing coolant to leak into the crankcase.
This coolant, when mixed with the engine oil, it not yet producing the classic milky engine oil we have come to look for.
Instead, there is a sort of tar like debris that settles in the bottom of the oil pan sump and is also pumped through the oiling system of the engine by the oil pump.
Some of this debris appears to be caught in the oil filter and settles in the bottom of the filter.
I am assuming at this point, that with the contamination of the engine oil with the coolant, the viscosity of the engine oil drops significantly and that was allowing some of the lifters to loose their normal oil charge and therefore need to be pumped back up at cold engine start.
The randomness of the cold start tapping may be a result of whether the lifter was sitting on top of the cam lobe or if it was resting on the cam flat.
If it was on the lobe, the added pressure on the lifter in that position may have forced more of the oil/coolant mixture out of the lifter while at rest.
Sitting on the flat of the cam would not press on the lifter near as much, pushing less oil out of the lifter, resulting in a much faster pump up.
So, here is where I am at, this is not the best time for me to send the truck to the shop to have a large tear down in search for a coolant leak.
I plan to monitor the situation and take steps on my own to try and better pinpoint where the coolant leak is coming from.
I am going to go ahead and change my spark plugs and perform a compression test and possibly run my bore scope into each spark plug hole to see what the inside of each cylinder and piston top looks like.
Seeing any indication of abnormally clean spark plugs or piston tops may indicate a coolant leak at that location.
I have not noticed any abnormal steam vapor coming from the tail pipe, but it is winter time, so normal condensation may be masking something in that area.
I do not smell coolant anywhere, as a rule.
I am going to check and empty the oil catch can as it does appear, at the very least, some of the coolant contaminated oil is getting vaporized and is being drawn into the PCV system.
I will capture what I can and hope there isn't a lot more coolant staying in suspension.
I intend to change the oil on a much more accelerated change interval, hopefully keeping the fresh oil from going bad soon and causing additional damage.
Also, I will be taking other vehicles when possible to attempt to reduce the amount of time the engine is running.
While not always possible, I can at least try.
Obviously, the EXT will not be used for long distance traveling until this problem is taken care of.
I know this was a long drawn out post, as many of mine are, but I felt I needed to work through my thought processes on this matter and try to get some documentation for myself.
Perhaps some of you find this interesting, perhaps not.
I welcome any insight anyone may have.
I figure the best case will be if I can get the truck into the shop and let the pros do what they can do.
Worst case, I wait a minute too long and the engine gets wasted.
I can assure you that I will take action as soon as I am able.
I'll try to keep the situation updated and I might update the original post if I think of more clues, information or better time frames.
I'm am really pleased with my decision to install the oil catch can.
Perhaps the clues it has given will finally put these issues to rest.
Thanks for reading.
The problems I am referring to are a random tapping at cold start up that I tried to address by having several broken exhaust manifold bolts and both exhaust manifold gaskets replaced.
While this repair may have had limited effect, it certainly did not stop the tapping altogether.
A second issue I have been dealing with has been a very slow loss of coolant.
Using a radiator pressure tester I bought from Harbor Freight, I was able to locate and fix several external coolant leaks, all of which were fixed by tightening or replacing several hose clamps.
Even with all of the leaks that I was able to identify and repair, I was still presented with a very slow loss of coolant.
Whenever I was doing other maintenance on my truck, I would often install the pressure tester and leave it in place in hope of locating another external leak.
The pressure always very slowly dropped while I was testing, but no visible coolant leaks were ever seen.
I am now convinced the slow drop in coolant pressure was due to the internal coolant leak, possibly due to a leaking head gasket.
The next issue was a strange accumulate of some type of debris both inside the bottom of the oil pan and most recently inside the bottom of the oil filter.
This strange substance was first discovered around May 3, 2019, when the engine had about 9,000 miles less than it does now.
On the day this stuff was first discovered, I was in the process of having a new oil pump installed in my engine to address some issues with low oil pressure.
Previous to this day, I had already had a new oil pickup tube with included o-ring installed to address low oil pressure.
There were no obvious signs of abnormal debris in the oil pan sump during the replacement of the oil pick up tube and o-ring.
This repair did appear to improve the oil pressure, but the low oil pressure returned before the next oil change.
I had a new oil pan installed shortly afterwards to address some pretty good oil leak issues, including a persistent oil leak I have had at the location where the external oil cooler line set attaches to the oil pan.
The two bolt holes where the oil cooler adapter is installed had long since been stripped out so much that they could no longer be repaired enough to hold the adapter.
During the replacement of the old oil pan, no strange debris was noted in the sump of the old pan.
I feel the existence of the internal coolant leak was either non-existent or extremely small, at this point in time.
I now think the coolant leak may have begun between the time the oil pick up tube was replaced and the time between when the new oil pan was installed and the new oil pump was soon afterwards installed.
Each time the oil pan was dropped, I had the oil changed and a new oil filter installed.
Some of these oil changes occurred during a shorter time and mileage period than I normally would have done.
The last time the new oil pan was dropped was to install a new oil pump to address the latest drop in overall oil pressure.
It was thought that the OEM oil pump was worn out and due to be replaced.
I had dropped the EXT off at my mechanic and was expecting the job to be completed some time the next day.
I later received a text with pictures and a request to swing by the shop to see what they had discovered when they dropped the oil pan.
They scrapped out the gunk and placed it in the upper potion of the oil pan to get a better picture.
At best guess, this stuff covered a layer on the bottom of the sump approximately 1/2" deep.
It is extremely likely that this junk was blocking the inlet of the oil pickup tube and was being drawn into the oil pump, as well.
The accumulation of this stuff probably explains why I was seeing better oil pressure for a while after the replacement of the oil pick up tube and o-ring, but the oil pressure began to drop a short time period afterwards.
Below are some pictures of this gunk we found in the oil pan.
Remember, you are seeing the inside of a brand new oil pan with less than a normal 7500 oil change interval on the oil.
More likely, there was closer to 4000 miles on this oil/Lucas mixture.
At the time we first discovered this debris, I had convinced myself that this stuff was a result of me having listened to my mechanic, and in a weak moment, I had allowed a quart of Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer to be added to this oil change.
I now no longer to believe that to be true, but I will continue to refrain from using any additives to my oil.
I do not feel there is any benefit.
At the very next oil change, we ran a bore scope up into the oil drain hole on the oil pan to see if there was any new debris in the oil pan sump.
There was none to be seen, adding to me being convinced the debris was a result of the Lucas.
At no point did we bother to cut open an oil filter.
I now think that may have been a good idea.
With the installation of the new oil pump, my engine has consistently had much better oil pressure at all temperatures and RPM's.
I have noted that, even though I had not previously noted any valve train noises, the engine did appear to run a bit quieter and power did seem to come on smoother and just better.
After the installation of the new oil pump and the successful repairs of the engine oil leaks, which also included replacing the rear main seal and rear main seal plate, I was now able to return to my normal oil change interval, which usually meant changing the oil and filter at around 7500 miles.
The oil change I just did occurred at about 20% oil life remaining according to the oil monitor.
Probably around 5000 miles.
Sometime between the last oil change and this most recent one, I began to notice the cold start tapping coming from the engine.
Upon examining the exhaust manifold bolts, I found a couple of the bolt heads missing and obvious signs of some exhaust leaking around the gaskets.
I opted to have all of the broken bolts extracted and new bolts and gaskets installed.
There was some improvement in the cold start tapping, but it never totally went away.
The cold start tapping was random and would not be there for several days and then return for several days running.
Sometimes, the tapping would last for a very few seconds and other times would take as long as 5 minutes before totally going away.
Someone here had mentioned that they had changed their oil and they had installed 10W-40 oil and they reported a reduction in their valve train noises.
I have always run Mobil 1 5W-30 and a NAPA Platinum oil filter.
This most recent oil change, I decided to use Mobil 1 10W-40 High Mileage to see if that would help with my leaking down lifter(s) issue.
Much to my pleasure, the tapping stopped a couple of days after the oil change and has not yet returned.
I now attribute the cold start lifter tapping stopping due to the coolant contaminated oil being finally flushed out of the lifters.
I had set the oil filter off to the side and did not use my oil filter cutting tool to open the filter right away.
A couple of weekends later, I changed the oil in our GMC Acadia and I saw the EXT filter sitting there where it had been draining for the past week or so.
When I got out my filter cutter and cut open the NAPA Platinum oil filter from the EXT, I was shocked to see the bottom 1/2 inch or so of the oil filter can was covered in some strange debris.
This debris was somewhat like the previous debris we had found in the sump of the oil pan a while back.
This mess would not pour out of the bottom of the oil filter and I had to scrape it out with a screw driver.
The top layer resembled a thick, black tar-type substance while the layer closest to the bottom of the oil filter appeared to be almost like a gritty dark fudge brownie looking material.
The pleats of the filter material were covered in thick, black stuff that did not run off. as the pleats sat in the drain pan.
I recalled that the engine oil that I drained was black, but it drained from the engine without any noticeable clumps.
I let the oil drain from the engine for quite a while.
I did not feel the need to use the bore cam to view inside the sump.
I wish now I had and I will be doing so from now on, at least until a fix to stop the coolant leak has been accomplished.
Recently installing the oil catch can was a result of someone here indicating I might be seeing the stuff in the oil filter due to a high level of crankcase blow by gases.
This sounded reasonable to me and I figured installing the catch can might yield some clues.
Boy, did it.
With running with the oil catch can for around one tank worth of fuel, it would appear my engine has some sort of internal coolant leak.
I'm leaning toward a leaking head gasket, but with my luck, it may be even more serious.
When I first checked the dipstick on the catch can, I saw what looked like water condensation on the stick.
I went ahead and opened the catch can and found 2 oz. of a brownish-pink liquid in the bottom of the can.
Now, bear with me when it comes to colors, as I do have some color deficiency in my eyesight.
I do check my engine oil with great regularity and the level of the oil has always appeared to be steady and full.
The appearance of the oil has always looked to me to be normal, with no apparent cloudiness or signs of it having the classic milkiness associated with coolant being mixed into the oil.
However, I had my wife take a look at the oil and the engine coolant and she indicated the clear, un-milky oil on the engine dipstick had a slight pink hue to it.
She indicated the contents of the oil catch can was a milky brown color with a pinkish hue to it.
Oh, joy.
So, it is now my assumption that the coolant leak (hopefully from a leaking head gasket, but possibly from a cracked head or a crack in the engine block) is allowing coolant to leak into the crankcase.
This coolant, when mixed with the engine oil, it not yet producing the classic milky engine oil we have come to look for.
Instead, there is a sort of tar like debris that settles in the bottom of the oil pan sump and is also pumped through the oiling system of the engine by the oil pump.
Some of this debris appears to be caught in the oil filter and settles in the bottom of the filter.
I am assuming at this point, that with the contamination of the engine oil with the coolant, the viscosity of the engine oil drops significantly and that was allowing some of the lifters to loose their normal oil charge and therefore need to be pumped back up at cold engine start.
The randomness of the cold start tapping may be a result of whether the lifter was sitting on top of the cam lobe or if it was resting on the cam flat.
If it was on the lobe, the added pressure on the lifter in that position may have forced more of the oil/coolant mixture out of the lifter while at rest.
Sitting on the flat of the cam would not press on the lifter near as much, pushing less oil out of the lifter, resulting in a much faster pump up.
So, here is where I am at, this is not the best time for me to send the truck to the shop to have a large tear down in search for a coolant leak.
I plan to monitor the situation and take steps on my own to try and better pinpoint where the coolant leak is coming from.
I am going to go ahead and change my spark plugs and perform a compression test and possibly run my bore scope into each spark plug hole to see what the inside of each cylinder and piston top looks like.
Seeing any indication of abnormally clean spark plugs or piston tops may indicate a coolant leak at that location.
I have not noticed any abnormal steam vapor coming from the tail pipe, but it is winter time, so normal condensation may be masking something in that area.
I do not smell coolant anywhere, as a rule.
I am going to check and empty the oil catch can as it does appear, at the very least, some of the coolant contaminated oil is getting vaporized and is being drawn into the PCV system.
I will capture what I can and hope there isn't a lot more coolant staying in suspension.
I intend to change the oil on a much more accelerated change interval, hopefully keeping the fresh oil from going bad soon and causing additional damage.
Also, I will be taking other vehicles when possible to attempt to reduce the amount of time the engine is running.
While not always possible, I can at least try.
Obviously, the EXT will not be used for long distance traveling until this problem is taken care of.
I know this was a long drawn out post, as many of mine are, but I felt I needed to work through my thought processes on this matter and try to get some documentation for myself.
Perhaps some of you find this interesting, perhaps not.
I welcome any insight anyone may have.
I figure the best case will be if I can get the truck into the shop and let the pros do what they can do.
Worst case, I wait a minute too long and the engine gets wasted.
I can assure you that I will take action as soon as I am able.
I'll try to keep the situation updated and I might update the original post if I think of more clues, information or better time frames.
I'm am really pleased with my decision to install the oil catch can.
Perhaps the clues it has given will finally put these issues to rest.
Thanks for reading.