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Why different sized bolts?

J

JohnLindholm

SM 2003
Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Messages
167
Location
Poughkeepsie, NY
Edit note: Topic changed to be descriptive

35 years of driving me crazy!

I chaznged my cabin air filter today, and was reminded of working w/ my father on various GM cars when I was a kid. We always had a Volvo for the "good" car, and you could almost disassemble/reassemble it w/ about 5 tools. Many of the bolts, screws, etc. were made to a common size throught the car, and there wasn't a lot of socket switching. On the GM "second" car, though, seemingly every bolt was a different size, meaning a change, IF you could even reach it! This is to say nothing of "special" tools like deep, thin-walled sockets needed to reach the rear plugs! Today, it got out the socket set and removed the "hush" panel under the dash and then went to loosen the screw holding the air filter panel in place. It was not the same size. I think it was 1/32 smaller (could've even been 1/64, rage though was dimming my vision at that point). I love the AV and will likely get another, and this is certainly nothing major, but WHY? Wouldn't it make assembly just as easy to use one size for everything where possible? There, I feel better. Keep on Av'in.
 
Please be forwarned that anything I say is probably worthless drivel...

I have not needed to dig into my Av yet, it only has 500 miles on it!

However, I noticed on my Corvette that many fastners are metric sized. Yahoo!.... (I like that, as I am a fan of metrics)

Perhaps you are finding some metric sized fasteners; this is just a WAG.

Why? I think it's way overdo if I am correct. Standardization with the rest of the world suppliers benefits everyone.

Metric speed limit signs failed, IMHO, because it was implemented too soon. What what that, 30 something years ago? That was it, before its time. Infrastructure was not geared to metric changeover then. I think it is still too soon now. When business and industry have accepted metric, that's when we will all operate on the metric system in general.

It seems to me that GM is making the change. Good for all of us. I predict that within the next 100 years, metric will be the standard. In the meantime, we weekend wrenchers will have to have two sets of tools!

Sorry if I highjacked this topic! :cautious:
 
Dazed Dave said:
To justify to your wife why you need more tools and a trip to the hardware store. >:D >:D
Click to expand...

Now that's what I am thinking (y) >:D
 
The screw you're refering to is a 5.5 mm, which doesn't come with many sets. All the fasteners on the AV are metric.
 
Strigil said:
I chaznged my cabin air filter today, and was reminded of working w/ my father on various GM cars when I was a kid. We always had a Volvo for the "good" car, and you could almost disassemble/reassemble it w/ about 5 tools. Many of the bolts, screws, etc. were made to a common size throught the car, and there wasn't a lot of socket switching. On the GM "second" car, though, seemingly every bolt was a different size, meaning a change, IF you could even reach it! This is to say nothing of "special" tools like deep, thin-walled sockets needed to reach the rear plugs! Today, it got out the socket set and removed the "hush" panel under the dash and then went to loosen the screw holding the air filter panel in place. It was not the same size. I think it was 1/32 smaller (could've even been 1/64, rage though was dimming my vision at that point). I love the AV and will likely get another, and this is certainly nothing major, but WHY? Wouldn't it make assembly just as easy to use one size for everything where possible? There, I feel better. Keep on Av'in.
Click to expand...

I think the General fixed the 2002 problems associated with changing the cabin air filter on the 2003 AV. Nobody has complained about the cabin air filter screws on the 2003 AV's. :) :) :) :) :)
 
Roy said:
I think the General fixed the 2002 problems associated with changing the cabin air filter on the 2003 AV. Nobody has complained about the cabin air filter screws on the 2003 AV's. :) :) :) :) :)
Click to expand...

Now THAT'S FUNNY ! ;) >:D
 
I've always standardized all of my vehicles. Every time I remove a part I simply replace it with bubblegum and wire... All I need for tools is a pair of pliers and a scraper. :D ;)
 
One of the bolts holding in my rear suspension on my Vettte had a metric on the bolt and a standard for the nut!! I'm not kidding, when I had them out I tested it and sure enough they were different. I don't remember the sizes, but they were in a range where you could not interchange a standard for metric or vise-versa- mainly due to the torque involved. I called the dealer and sure enough it was indeed a "unique fastener" as they called it.

Talk about a pain when your on your back trying to work!!

Ed
 
I remember talking to a friend who owns a garage, and he told me that the tool companies that marlet mainly to garages, like Matco, etc. will go to the car manufacturers and "donate" parts that require the use of their tools. For example. they will come up with an off sized botl, or a part that is engineered so that it can only be worked on with their special tool. Then they supply GM with as many of those parts as it wants.

The next step is to send their trucks to ever garage in America, get in touch with the mechanics, and say, "if you want to work on the <insert part name here> on the 2003 Avalanche, you're going to need this $50.00 wrench/screwdriver/defibrillator."

Bang, instant sales. The General is happy to get free parts, the tool company gets to sell an otherwise worthless tool, the mechanic gets screwed. Diabolical.

Keep in mind that this is second hand info, so I haven't verified it, but it sort of makes sense.

It also doesn't answer why a million different sized screws and bolts are used that don't require special tools.
 
maxib said:
Please be forwarned that anything I say is probably worthless drivel...

I have not needed to dig into my Av yet, it only has 500 miles on it!

However, I noticed on my Corvette that many fastners are metric sized. Yahoo!.... (I like that, as I am a fan of metrics)

Perhaps you are finding some metric sized fasteners; this is just a WAG.

Why? I think it's way overdo if I am correct. Standardization with the rest of the world suppliers benefits everyone.

Metric speed limit signs failed, IMHO, because it was implemented too soon. What what that, 30 something years ago? That was it, before its time. Infrastructure was not geared to metric changeover then. I think it is still too soon now. When business and industry have accepted metric, that's when we will all operate on the metric system in general.

It seems to me that GM is making the change. Good for all of us. I predict that within the next 100 years, metric will be the standard. In the meantime, we weekend wrenchers will have to have two sets of tools!

Sorry if I highjacked this topic! :cautious:
Click to expand...

I might be a little old fashioned but I completely disagree! Why do we need to change to conform to the rest of the world? With the exception of Skidd not many are going overseas. I think it was another one of those TOOL COMPANIES ideas so they could sell more tools! If we need to be metric why are there still after 30 years or more, both metric and SAE on American cars and trucks? I think we should change back to SAE and keep it there!!

IMHO, Butch

 
I might be a little old fashioned but I completely disagree! Why do we need to change to conform to the rest of the world? With the exception of Skidd not many are going overseas. I think it was another one of those TOOL COMPANIES ideas so they could sell more tools! If we need to be metric why are there still after 30 years or more, both metric and SAE on American cars and trucks? I think we should change back to SAE and keep it there!!

IMHO, Butch
Click to expand...

Thank you Mr. Butch. I very much agree!
 
Z66 BUTCH said:
I might be a little old fashioned but I completely disagree! Why do we need to change to conform to the rest of the world? With the exception of Skidd not many are going overseas. I think it was another one of those TOOL COMPANIES ideas so they could sell more tools! If we need to be metric why are there still after 30 years or more, both metric and SAE on American cars and trucks? I think we should change back to SAE and keep it there!!

IMHO, Butch
Click to expand...

LOL... Butch, then you had better not buy one of your new (Australian built) Pontiacs, with all the metric bolts that those pesky metric countries have put in. >:D
 
I appreciate all the input, and agree that one of the screws might by English and one might be metric. That does not explain, however, why they are different. Make 'em all one or the other, I don't care. I don't even believe that it's tool company conspiracy. I think it's lack of overall control, and each dept. or sub-group does its own thing w/o coordinating w/ the rest of the boys/girls. By the way Skidd, do the nuts work in reverse in the Southern Hemisphere?
 
Strigil said:
By the way Skidd, do the nuts work in reverse in the Southern Hemisphere?
Click to expand...
At the risk of not knowing that you might be sending me up... yes they do work the same. Some threads RH and others LH for specific purposes... or is it the other way around?? :2:
 
Skidd said:
Strigil said:
By the way Skidd, do the nuts work in reverse in the Southern Hemisphere?
Click to expand...
At the risk of not knowing that you might be sending me up... yes they do work the same. Some threads RH and others LH for specific purposes... or is it the other way around?? :2:
Click to expand...
But water swirls in reverse in the comode down under >:D

Just couldn't resist :p
 
maxib said:
Please be forwarned that anything I say is probably worthless drivel...
Click to expand...

I quote myself to remind all of my disclaimer!!!

In my defense, I would like to remind all that the cubit has long passed as a standard of measurement. King Henry the VIII's foot no longer fits a Nike or Adidas which are increasingly listed in Euro sizes, (e.g. 43 = 9 to 9.5), and without looking it up, how many can definitively state how many stones you weigh or how many hands tall you are???

Our military lobs artillery in meters, our scientists and pharmacologists measure in grams, our vintners proportion in liters, runners race kilometers.

Geeze, all you need to know is how to count to ten and use a decimal point for the metric system. Y'all gonna tell me you know without looking it up that a gill is 4 fluid ounces? How many gallons in a barrel? (Wine, beer, oil are all different). When's the last time you bought a peck of cucumbers at the Farmer's Market, and how many pecks in a bushel...and what the heck's a bushel???

There are 2,304 64ths in a yard, there are only 1000mm in a meter. Most of you guys are as old as me and cannot even see a 64th on a tape rule without a magnifying glass. Imagine how satisfying it is to measure a mm without squinting or removing your glasses and getting within one inch of the rule would be to measure something??? Almost like having Lasik or Lasek, or even going back in time 10 years.

Imperial gallons vs whatever the other gallon...there ain't no Imperial liters. C'mon guys, admit it. You've been using metric all along. 1 cent, 10 cents, 100 cents, 1 dollar, 100 times 1 dollar is a Franklin (I think, I never had one), 10 Franklins is a down payment, ten thousand, hundred thou, one mill, lotto!!! Based on 10s, metric!!!!

I agree with the others, the only reason for different standards in sizes is somebody is making money off it. Time for the REVOLUTION, everyone rise up for METRIC now!!! Who is with me????!!!!!

This is why I think two different fastener systems is nuts!

For the really hard to convince person, please refer to my disclaimer above and the smileys following >:D >:D :2: >:D >:D
 
Skidd said:
LOL... Butch, then you had better not buy one of your new (Australian built) Pontiacs, with all the metric bolts that those pesky metric countries have put in. >:D
Click to expand...

Skidd, I have nothing against the metric bolts or the countries that use them. We had been using the SAE system from the begining so I just do not see the need for us to change. See if we had left it alone, you would own 2 sets of tools (one for the Avalanche and another for everything else) and I would own just one! You would have won, you have more tools! The way it is now we both need two sets of tools.

Butch
 
Even though the idea of standard (to us) vs metric will wage on through the ages, the question still begs for an answer--why both metric and standard on the same part.

About a month ago, I had to replace a water pump on my old Trans Am (a 1980). On this pump, there were five different size bolts/nuts. 3 standard (7/16", 1/2", and 9/16") plus 2 metrics (12 mm and 13 mm I think). Not to mention that for some, standard length sockets were needed, some deepwell sockets, and a couple where just a combination wrench was needed. :E: I understand the ideas of buying parts from independant suppliers, etc.., but when one bolt holding the pump to the housing is say 1/2", and the one right next to it bolting into the same housing is 7/16", you have to question the logic in that!!!

Although I haven't looked into the cabin air filter just yet, in what I've done to the Av so far things have been pretty straight forward.

Tincup
 
First off... the US is converting to the metric system...inch by inch...

As for the General, there is a general book of common fasteners that are used for the vehicle builds, so some commonization is necessary. Also, we try to put common fasteners in areas where the operator is assembling a component/part to minimize additional tooling. Lastly, we have a fastener engineering team that helps us spec out the appropriate fastener for the joint/clamp load that we need to assemble the vehicle to maintain ours/gov't standards... It isn't "just go over to that bin and grab a couple of bolts and we'll put this together." We actually put a lot of effort to get it right! Albeit at the chagrin of the wonderful world of Modders and Mechanics who continue to scratch their heads at the intersting things they find... :2:
Just my $0.02, or is that 35 millipennies... ???
 
after doing my brush guard installl...I am agrevated myself...

WHY OH WHY..

then non standard head sizes......

12mm bolts are suppose to have 19mm heads not 18 mm.......it seems they do not follow the standard for hardware....I am sure SAE covers this I used to have access to specs in old job but not in this one I have now....

OK done venting
 
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