Brake Failure!!!

[iamten7]

I just found out that GM is doing what they refer to in the business as a 'Silent Recall' on the parking/emergency brakes on the '02 Av. I was hearing a noise constantly in the brakes even while driving. The noise turned into a grind and I took it into service immediately. A mechanic that was working on my Av told me that Chevy has a whole re-build on the system and he just found out about it in a "Service Bulletin" ie: Silent Recall. This thing is 1 1/2 yrs old with only 28K miles. I need a completely new rotor for the pax. rear. That's bad enough by itself but it gets worse. Turns out after talking to some other Av owners in the area that we are all experiencing another brake problem. It appears that the calipers are getting hung up and wearing the inboard brake pads out causing early pad replacement. Who ever heard of replacing rear brake pads at 28K miles? For that matter who ever heard of replacing rears before fronts? This service manager expects me to believe that this is somehow my fault. After telling other Av owners of the brake issues, they report similiar problems with the inboard brake pads wearing out on all four wheels. One guy said his dealer would only agree to cover the rear because the fronts were normal wear. Yeah right on the inboard pads only it's considered normal wear. So I guess if you take two outboard pads that are still good you only have to buy one set of new pads. I know how 'bout if we take the service managers car and only remove half of his brake pads. When he wrecks his car we can see if he still thinks it's normal. So far this has only been a problem for me on the rear wheels. My front pads look brand new still. Anyhow I am just curious to see how many others have experienced this problem. Thanx.

 

[pktwatch]

You know, I didn't want to say anything but I have never really liked the brakes on my Avalanche. It seems like sometimes when I apply the brakes the are great and have a lot of power and other times they are spongey. They kind of feel like they need "pumped" to have full power. Does anyone else have the feel about the brakes that I am talking about? Mine is a 02' Z66.

Butch

 

[new2Chevy]

Same here...i only have about 11k on my 03. Maybe it's just me in my head...but the past week the brakes felt not as powerful as they used to be and I also heard a low hum every now and again. Not like a highpitched sensor.

I guess I should get it checked out.

 

[Chief]

A TSB is NOT a silent recall. A recall is specific to safety related features impacting a wide number of vehicles. What is the TSB number? My guess is it's for a narrow window of vehicles built between X date and Y date (measured in weeks at the most) and in certain configurations only. For example - does this impact 1500 or 2500 or both?

Nothing wrong with venting when you find something wrong - but saying a recall and a TSB are the same thing is wrong. As a matter of fact, documenting in a TSB probably got the fix out faster than through a full blown recall.

Why isn't this a major safety issue? Because the Avalanche ONLY comes in an automatic and the parking brake is based on the Corvette system that does not utilize the main brake mechanism or pads. So the only way your Av could move when you thought you had the brake engaged would be if you parked it out of gear and just set the brake - kind of odd. Now if the Avalanche had a manual option - than I would see this as a HUGE safety issue for manual owners.

At least they made good on your rotor - when my calipers froze on my 95 S-10 and ate my front rotors at 19K miles GM said sorry kid, as designed. Couldn't get anyone, not even Detroit to listen. UGH!

 

[colek]

So, the TSB covers the PARKING BRAKE...right ?? ?All 4 of mine look great at 38,000 miles. ?There are many TSB's lsited on the site... none refered to as "silent recalls"... ?

Who ever heard of replacing rear brake pads at 28K miles? For that matter who ever heard of replacing rears before fronts? This service manager expects me to believe that this is somehow my fault.

Me for one. ?I had the first set of rear pad to ever go out on a '97 STS - since the platforms inception my dealer in Memphis had never replaced rear pads on ANY STS from that platform..they were shocked ! ?I drove that car as hard as I could...things happen...

PS - Brake Issues or Parking Brake TSB would be a better topic line... I thought someone had gotten hurt.

 

[dichris]

I agree with Chief.......

Parking brake is a different system than the vehicle braking system... Parking is a drum brake outfit located inside the rear rotors. They work GREAT!!!!
As for brake wear, normal wear should be even between the pads....
Abnormal wear is like my old...old car, 1987 Olds Cutlass Ciera GT Coupe... 8,000kms between pads and rotors..
Yes 8,000 kms, not MILES.... 5,000miles....The original lasted to 19,000 kms and dealer replaced pads and rotors under warranty... Next set were replaced by Midas at my expense, and after that, their expense..
As I was going through the pads and rotors in 8,000 kms and less than 90 days, Midas ate the entire bill....
They were glad when I moved as I wan't putting the miles on as much, thus I extended the 90 days... When I gave the car to my wife, they lasted even longer...
Lets see... 3860 lbs car with 14" wheels, FWD and I drove it much faster than 55 miles per hour... usually I drove it at the cut out, which was 185 km/hr.....about 115 miles per hour...standard brakes don't last long then.....
So what I am saying is....YOUR DRIVING HABITS MAKE A DIFFERENCE......AV is a Truck, LOAD and SPEED make a big difference on life.....
Boy, can't wait until I get my AV and see how long the pads last driving it at 130 to 160 Kmph (80 to 100 Mph) daily.....

 

[tonyd]

I took my 02 in today to have the emergency brakes fixed (they don't work). Regular brakes work fine (39K). I let you know the outcome tomorrow.

 

[iamten7]

Chief try looking without the rose colored glasses,

OK TSB = SILENT recall. Note the word SILENT there. Ask any ASE certified mechanic what that means and you will get the same explanation I was given the first time I heard it. TSB is the manufacturer's way of correcting defects without doing a total recall in full view of the public and there by harming future product sales. Re-read the original statement. I never once stated that this was an actual manufacture recall. This, you state, is NOT a 'Safety' issue since the Av is auto and not manual. Well as the dealer mechanic noted. Should the problem go uncorrected the shoes will continue to grind on the inside of the drum to the point of wearing the rotor drum through. Let's think for a second what the result of that is, could it be break failure? You may not think so. However the problem obviously is bad enough to warrant a TSB and the dealer mechanic has spent two full days trying to fix it in accordance with the bulletin. Also that was the first problem I addressed in the original statement. The second problem which has NOT had a TSB issued on it as of yet, is the calipers hanging up and causing the inboard pads to prematurely wear out. The purpose of my posting these two problems together was to let everyone know about the first one so they too can get their dealer to fix it, and the second to see how many others have had this problem with the calipers hanging up wearing out the inboard pads. If we the consumers don't discuss problems like this on a site like this openly then the manufacture will never own up and correct the problem. I guess my "venting" as you stated was misinterpreted on your part. While you may see it as venting, I see it as letting my fellow Av owners know about a potentially harmful problem that exists on their vehicles. As for this being a problem on only specific models made between (x) date and date, no chance the same set-up is on ALL Av's.
Mr. Edward K says "So, the TSB covers the PARKING BRAKE...right ?? All 4 of mine look great at 38,000 miles...." Very interesting since there are only two connected to the parking brake cable and neither is visible without removing the rear wheels and rotors. Could you tell me more about how your vehicle has "4" that look great. I think you are confusing your standard brakes and pads with your parking brakes and shoes. The parking break is a drum brake housed inside the rear rotors out of normal view. An easy way to inspect for the defect is to set and release the parking brake while the rear of the vehicle is off the ground. With the vehicle in nuetral and the engine off, spin the rear wheels by hand and listen carefully for the shoes dragging on the inside of the rotor drum. Better than that though you can take it to Midas for one of their free inspections.
Mr. dichris while driving habits will affect your brake wear it will not cause either of the problems that I pointed out. Thank-you though, for clarifying the difference between the brake systems. Also just a note on your need for speed. The stock Av off the production line has a speed maximum of 96mph. This was verified by the factory after it was called into question by one of Illinois fine State Troopers. He mistakenly felt that my stock Av was capable of sub-sonic speeds late one night on a deserted stretch of I-80. Though since you live in Canada maybe they will bump that top speed up slightly. However as of my last conversation with the Detroit VP I was able to run down, the only Av's that they ship capable of speeds higher than 96mph, are the Police package specials that they give to the Michigan State Police. Thanx again for your input.

 

[number3]

Weird?!? I parked on a hill today and I decided to use the PB for the second time ever and the pedal went right to the floor. Nothing? Then I come home and read this.

My 03 only has 2k miles...

 

[colek]

I wasn?t mistaken, I figured that you would know what I meant, sorry for the confusion, allow me to clarify.......

........ Turns out after talking to some other Av owners in the area that we are all experiencing another brake problem. It appears that the calipers are getting hung up and wearing the inboard brake pads out causing early pad replacement. Who ever heard of replacing rear brake pads at 28K miles? For that matter who ever heard of replacing rears before fronts? This service manager expects me to believe that this is somehow my fault. After telling other Av owners of the brake issues, they report similiar problems with the inboard brake pads wearing out on all four wheels.......

All eight pads in the four calipers show no signs of accelerated wear at their current mileage which is approx 38,000.

..... Better than that though you can take it to Midas for one of their free inspections.....

That is the funniest thing that I?ve read on this board... my AV being worked on by anyone other that me, especially Midas...

OK TSB = SILENT recall. Note the word SILENT there. Ask any ASE certified mechanic what that means and you will get the same explanation I was given the first time I heard it. TSB is the manufacturer's way of correcting defects without doing a total recall in full view of the public and there by harming future product sales.

OK. TexAvFan (ASE CERTIFIED MASTER TECHNICIAN, 23 years), Does TSB= Silent Recall ?

And I still think the subject line is misleading...

 

[AvalancheZ71]

My e-brake dosnt work either im taking it in =(

 

[tonyd]

Got my AV back today, emergency brake is fixed but my wallet is lighter (out of warrenty). I went back to my favorite hill after picking it up and it stuck like a fly on a wall. The shop said my pads were gone, but I believe they never worked. The emergency brake pedal now has resistance whereas it used to just go the floor with no effort. At the time I just thought this is how it works with 4 wheel disk brakes. I have been careful to never drive without releasing the emergency brake so I'm a bit confused on how the pads could have worn. Lesson learned; if your truck is new and you don't feel some resistance when you depress the pedal, have it checked.

 

[RJLACK]

TSB - Technical Service Bulletin means just that and nothing else - You can ask me or any of the 100s of Techs I know and not a one of them will tell you it means silent recall. I have worked in the Automotive Industry for over 25 years and the only mention of silent recall comes from the public arena of the overly paranoid. The laws are clear on recalls and a TSB is just a heads up put out to the repair industry - dealer and independent alike to help recognize and repair a problem that is seen to be somewhat common - not on every vehicle - all TSB's have vin # ranges and production date runs as well as specific option combinations. If a problem is found to be widespread and the law dictates a recall is neccessay it will be done and not silently - of that you can be sure.

Stated as more than an opinion by a ASE Master Certified L-1 Technician - I will fax my credentials if needed.
Richard

 

[Boar-Ral]

I took my 02 in today to have the emergency brakes fixed (they don't work). ?Regular brakes work fine (39K). ? I let you know the outcome tomorrow.

I am interested in the outcome. My emergency brake failed and the dealership charged me to repair them, citing the 25,000 km warranty on brakes, which I exceeded. Seems appropriate for normal brakes, but not for the emergency brake. (I can understand it in some circumstances, but according to them, my emergency brakes were completely out of alignment, to a very extreme amount.)

 

[iamten7]

Well tonyd sorry to hear your dealer bent you over like that. Did they at-least give you a courtesy reach around? You might try going to the dealer GM and discussing the TSB and your bill. However if you have the standard 3yr/36K miles waranty they will continue to fight you on it. You may have to stomp your feet a little on this one. Good Luck.

 

[iamten7]

TSB - Technical Service Bulletin means just that and nothing else - You can ask me or any of the 100s of Techs I know and not a one of them will tell you it means silent recall. I have worked in the Automotive Industry for over 25 years and the only mention of silent recall comes from the public arena of the overly paranoid.... Richard

Congratulations TexAVfan, spoken like a true soldier of the industry you have belonged to for over 25 years. I commend you on your loyality. However as you so kindly reinforced for me, "...the only mention of silent recall comes from the public arena..." which makes perfect sense doesn't it? Why would an industry insider publicly state that their product is bad? Well I guess you wouldn't. However the public as well as those not schackled to the product can speak freely on the subject. I also find it interesting that the mechanics that I spoke with, who also are employed by varying dealers, are all familiar with the connection between the two terms. Certainly they are not going to yell across the service bay to the manager "Hey what'd you do with that silent recall bulletin on the emergency brakes for this AV?" But ofcourse that is just common sense now isn't it? Thanx all the same for giving us all the Corporate Line on the subject. Greatly appreciate the help in getting the word out. Guess the rest of us in the "overly paranoid public" who value our safety, can take our Av's into our friendly dealer mechanic to have this checked out. Free of charge ofcourse,

 

[Loggie]

The first time I read a post about this problem I took my AV in and had them check it out. Sure enough, they ended up replacing parts and fixed the problem, at least I thought. About two months later the e-brake was pushing to the floor again and she would not hold on a small incline. I took it back to the service center and they told me that the adjustment was off. Again, without being charged, they fixed it.

Now the time has come where I?m getting ready to move to Germany and I?m worried that the problem is going to come back. On my way to the processing center in Baltimore, I stopped over in Louisville, KY for a couple of days (my trip started in OK). While I was there, I had a service center really check over the AV and let me know if I needed any work. I also asked them to check the breaks and change all the fluids if needed. They had nothing for me. Everything is in excellent condition.

So?. now I?m in Germany?

I had to run the AV through a vehicle inspection center before I could register it and guess what failed, the e-brake! It held when the guy put it into drive but would roll when he put it in reverse. I took it to a local place and they adjusted the brakes, again. Its holding for now. I have about 7k mile left before the warranty runs out. I?m thinking about taking it in and having the shop here look at it one more time.

I?m also having my Mother-n-law (she works for GMAC) get me some information about a product complaint so I can formally get something back from GM. I want to make sure, if the problem persists after the warranty runs out, I?ll be covered.

?of course, I could always use this as a good excuse to mod the brakes and go with bigger performance ones?hmmm! Think the wife might buy off on that? lol

Just wanted to share my story?

 

[Seagull]

Fwwwwwwtttt... Foul, 15 yard penalty.

I usually try to stay out of this sort of thing, but this is particularaly agregious.

OK TSB = SILENT recall. Note the word SILENT there. Ask any ASE certified mechanic what that means and you will get the same explanation I was given the first time I heard it....

...OK. TexAvFan (ASE CERTIFIED MASTER TECHNICIAN, 23 years), Does TSB= Silent Recall ?...

TSB - Technical Service Bulletin means just that and nothing else - You can ask me or any of the 100s of Techs I know and not a one of them will tell you it means silent recall. I have worked in the Automotive Industry for over 25 years and the only mention of silent recall comes from the public arena of the overly paranoid...

Congratulations TexAVfan, spoken like a true soldier of the industry you have belonged to for over 25 years. I commend you on your loyality. However as you so kindly reinforced for me, "...the only mention of silent recall comes from the public arena..." which makes perfect sense doesn't it?...

When you say that any expert will back you view, and then an expert with the very qualifications you specify states that you are wrong, insulting them does not make you right. You owe TexAVfan one honkin' big apology.

Of course, if I remember my 10-codes right, I'm possibly just reponding to a troll, since 10-7 would mean out of service.

Chris

 

[olsontru]

My e-brake has been pitiful since new. Wouldn't hold the truck in a breeze.
I live with a slanted driveway, not severe but slanted, My parking brake will not even slow it.
Glad the car has a buzzer or I would have driven many miles with it on. It has no viable effect on anything. Goes to the floor each time it is pushed, dealer said something to the effect that "they all do that". Must visit them again.
What is the TSB number??

 

[Big_Don]

10-7
I think you are getting your terms confused. A TSB is a technical service bulletin that explains how a common problem may be repaired. Most vehicles have dozens or even hundreds of TSB's issued over their lifetime. A "recall" is always safety related and usually government mandated. If you feel that a "recall" is warranted on this "brake failure" then contact NHTSA and register your complaint. If they receive a significant number of complaints on an issue, and it is determined to be safety related, then a mandatory recall will be initiated. If a recall is initiated and you have paid to have the repairs done, you will be reimbursed. There is a procedure in effect to protect the consumer, but it must be followed in order for it to work. I agree that brake failure was a misleading title for this post. Your brakes did not fail, your PARKING BRAKE failed. While this is unfortunate and appears to be a wide-spread problem, it is certainly not as serious as if your service brakes had failed. I need to get my 2002 in to get this checked. I bought from a dealer quite a distance from my home, so thought I would give my local dealer a chance to win me over with his service department (his sales department had driven me away with their lack of customer service). I called and requested an appointment to get my parking brake checked and was told that the next available appointment was in 3 weeks! I guess their attitude toward customers extends to the service department too. I'll be visiting my selling dealer for this service, I guess. IF ANYONE CAN SUPPLY THE NUMBER FOR THIS TSB, IT WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

 

[Trakehner]

I've been told by my dealer..."too bad, it's over warranty for brakes...it'll probably cost you around $500!".

I think it's a real disaster of a parking brake system. Mine work when it comes to the truck rolling backwards, facing downhill....absolutely no brakes. Truck has 25K miles and I've had it since 10/01.

I've been happy with it, except for the brakes.

I loved when the problem showed up with the PCV valve (really high oil usage when used for towing unless you replaced the PCV)...I saw the notice when at the dealers, and I still had to buy the valve even though they knew of the problem. Pathetic customer service.

 

[TXAVy]

Ok iamten7, let's put aside the whole discussion of what words to call this issue (personally I don't care whether someone calls it "silent recall" or "TSB") and get back to the original purpose of helping out the community by posting the information here. A couple pages ago there was a question from Chief about what the TSB number is so that we can all get a copy and get the help you intended. Can you post the TSB number for us?

 

[s5uewf]

Folks, visit the NHTSA website. You can enter your
vehicle info and retrieve all TSB's and all recalls
for your vehicle.

The TSB for Parking Brake is: 020526002

GEEEEEEE what a BIG secret! I hope no
one let's the cat out of the bag

Good luck folks. This site has always been
helpful to me, hope it is for you.

Anyone here who can teach us all the secret
mechanic handsignals and body gestures,
so I can interpret the real goings on
next time I'm at the shop?

 

[iamten7]

OK Big_Don try getting Hooked on Phonics and re-reading the previous posts where we hashed all that out about the word "recall". If you don't think your emergency brake shoes dragging to the point of wearing the pad completely off and grinding metal to metal on the drum is serious, that's great for you. However let's follow that scenario to it's undetected conclusion and where will it possibly lead? Well according to the mechanic one possibility mentioned was the drum wearing completely through and totally seizing up while driving or maybe worse. Yep your right that absolutely doesn't sound serious to me. Hence the ORIGINAL TITLE for the post was and is because that's what it is BRAKE FAILURE!!! Secondly my comprehensively challenged counterpart, the other issue that was addressed in the ORIGINAL post was that of the inboard brake pads on the, as you call them "service", brakes wearing out prematurely. Again another example of BRAKE FAILURE isn't that? Thanx all the same for reading thoroughly the whole thread before chiming in about your wonderful relationship with the local dealer.

 

[Big_Don]

10-7
I don't know why you feel the need to get huffy with people that do not agree with you. A parking brake that does not hold is a problem that needs to be addressed. A brake shoe that wears out prematurely is also a problem that needs to be addressed. When you are driving at 70 miles per hour and the car in front of you stops, you slam on your brakes and nothing happens - that is brake failure! Your brakes had a service problem - they did not fail. I simply wanted to point out that there is a mechanism for you to file a complaint with NHTSA which may result in an actual recall if you feel one is needed. That will do more good than ranting on a web-site about your problem.