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Need Your Help Quick.

V

victory_red

SM 2003
Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
Messages
224
Location
Tell City,IN.
Ok,let me begin this thread by stating some Indiana traffic laws: seat belts are required in all cars/suvs for front passengers only. Trucks do not require the use of these unless passenger is under the age of 6. ? ?Ok,you may see where I am going with this one! It was the 4th and the police were out in heavy force with sobriety check points. We were on our way home from some friends house after a cook out and fireworks get together.It was late and my son and wife were already asleep in the back seat. I normally(95% of the time) wear my seatbelt but this time I wasn't so lucky. So I get stopped at the checkpoint and he asks if I had been drinking.I told him the truth that I had 2 beers all night long and that was it. He asked my to take a breathalizer and I agreed to(if you refuse,you lose your liscense automatically for 1yr.) I didn't even register on it so he being frustrated began to dig deeper! he asked about my sleeping wife if she was intoxicated(remember,she is sleeping in the back!),I told her she doesn't drink. He then asked me if I ever wear my seatbelt and told him i usually do,just got in a hurry and forgot.so he begin with the speech of seatbelts and their purpose and I interupted him and told i heard it all b4,I will put it on,just let us get home so we can get my now crying 20month old son home to bed. He didn't like that at all! I was mad because he now shined his flashlight at my son and woke him up and he was mad because I didn't register for drinking on his little tale-tale machine! He wrote me aticket for no seatbelt on while driving in a "suv". I told him it was a truck,it had correct truck plates on it and he was wrong.Well,he got even more mad at that and wanted to check my son's baby seat for correct installation!!! I told him,"get yourself a search warrant before you even think of opening that f***ing door." He just said here is your seatbelt violation sir,be careful on your way home." I then replied"I'll won't pay this,I'll fight it and you better be in court to back it up you prick" He then just tipped his hat with a smile and walked off! So,what are they,trucks or SUV's? Mine has truck vanity tags on it but a suv can too. I guess it's going to all boil down to what the judge thinks. I am gathering all information on them that refers to them as trucks(like GM pamplets and stuff) to take with me to court. I know the violation is only $35 but it is the way the officer behaved that makes me want to fight this in traffic court next month. What do you all think,fight it or just pay the stupid thing and let it go? My buddy who is a police officer says"fight it" he says he knows the other officer and he is known for stupid things like that and gets most of his tickets thrown out in traffic court. Any information leading to more referals as "pick-ups or trucks"will be helpful. sorry so long,had to rant to my fellow brothers on this one!
 
On my oklahoma title my av is classified as a "PK". ?I think that means "pickup" ?some call them pickup trucks.

Somewhere on the av or on some of the paperwork that came with it. The av was clasiffied as a "SUT". ?Sport Utility Truck
 
I gues what is the legal definition of truck in your state....

Research that and see if the av is a truck.

Good luck.....
 
When Chevrolet adds up the sales data at the end of each month - the Avalanche is totaled up in the "truck" column and not the "SUV" column. Further, Motor Trend awarded the Avalanche 2002 "Truck" of the Year NOT 2002 "SUV' of the year.

I think any el cheapo lawyer with half a brain can get it thrown out, but you'll be spending more money paying the lawyer than fighting the ticket on principal (however I'd fight it on principal).

Oh ya - wear your damn seatbelt!
 
Victory - In Colorado my AV is a truck and has truck plates just like your's in IN.

I would fight it too

Being an IN native, I can understand how some of the officers can be - many of them are Barney Fife on one of his power trips.

Fight the good fight
 
I did some more checking. My Beast a 1970 ford one ton is also classified as a "PK" on the Oklahoma title.

Anybody know how a suburban is classified in oklahoma?
 
If I had the time, I'd fight it on the principle of things - I've not met too many law enforcement personnel that are jerks - but IMO, those who are should be held accountable.

Classification of vehicles is by state - In Colorado the Av is included with pickups as a 'truck' - while ordinary SUV's are not. If however in Indiana, the Av is lumped in with SUV's, you may have a tougher time.

Good luck - let us know how it goes!
 
I can certainly admire your resolve, but let me just say this. I went to court about 2 years ago to fight a speeding ticket that was also rediculous. I had the ticket thrown out and had to pay $20 in court fees (as opposed to $65 for the ticket). So fine, I won. However, I wasted 4 hours of my life and had to sit with MANY, MANY folks I would probably never associate with yet I was lumped in with them. These were not all speeding ticket folks either. There was a couple who were in court over assault charges, another for restraining order violations, a few drug-related violations and even some petty theft.

To make a long story short, I almost wish I had just paid the thing and not gone to court.

Jamie
 
I have all the information for"truck of the year"from motor trend already. The title states as someone has already stated" sport utility truck". The dealer pamphlet states it as a truck......oh,hell with it,I'll just pay the damn thing and be done with it. Oh,and chief,I have worn it everytime since then!
 
some more notables to mention: The officer is my cousin's ex-fiance or however you spell that word! He is known to fly off the handle and to be a real jerk. Maybe I was out of line myself late thursday night,but still,it's the principle of the thing that makes me want to fight it. Jamie,I have given some thought to your post,and you make alot of good valid points about the courts and various fees. The tickit does not hold any points value on it nor will it go against me on my insurance either. This is the 1st ticket I have had in almost 6 yrs and it has to be something stupid like this to end my record!
 
Mine was the same way, Red. It was no points either... just 62 in a 55. I'm all for the good guy winning, but court sucks and you'll be hangin out with folks you wouldn't even consider letting mamma know are alive! Now I'm sure some of us have been in court for other, legitimate or similar reasons so I am not insinuating anyone here is bad or otherwise. I think you all know of the element I speak of... kind of the crowd you see on Cops, if you know what I mean.

Jamie
 
for purposes of your ticket you should simply copy your registration and send the copy in along with your ticket, using the procedure outlined in the ticket. Indicate you are pleading "not guilty" and note, in a short letter, that you plan on using the fact that the vehicle is designated as a truck by the state and that it is thus conclusively subject to the seatbelt rules applicable to trucks. Await response.

I assume that your reg shows the Av being registered as a "truck" and that such was in keeping with how your state registers other Avs - ps they register Avs as "truck" in CT aso.
 
Just got my plates and regestration last week from the State of California and it states that the AV is a PK or Pickup.

Good Luck, and just make sure you are polite to the judge. Lord knows how many tickets i have had dropped by just being polite ot the judge.


 
jackalanche said:
for purposes of your ticket you should simply copy your registration and send the copy in along with your ticket, using the procedure outlined in the ticket. Indicate you are pleading "not guilty" and note, in a short letter, that you plan on using the fact that the vehicle is designated as a truck by the state and that it is thus conclusively subject to the seatbelt rules applicable to trucks. Await response.

I assume that your reg shows the Av being registered as a "truck" and that such was in keeping with how your state registers other Avs - ps they register Avs as "truck" in CT aso.
Click to expand...

I think you should do what jackalanche suggests, BUT include a check for the fine as well. I suspect that you all ready feel a whole lot better just by having the opportunity to vent here amongst friends. I find that matters of "principle" usually are matters of "feelings". Also, a complaint with the police department may be in order, but will likely prove futile. JMO.

p.s. My vote, FWIW, is that the Av is a truck.
 
My registration (Washington State) has my av listed as "trk" under "use type". Good luck!
 
The Avalanche is a truck. Your state issued truck plates for it, so that's a no brainer. However, your state's exemption is probably the same as Pennsylvania's. The exemption applies only to commercial use of the vehicle. If you were delivering pizza's you would not be required to wear a seat belt. Under the condition you found yourself in, seat belt use would be required for all front seat occupants. I would like to point out that the cop cut you a break. The supreme court ruled last year that a search warrant is not required to enter a car during a routine traffic stop. The combination of threatening the officer with profanity, and challenging his authority to check the interior of your vehicle were valid grounds to arrest you on the spot. I know it hurts, but sometimes you have to bite your tongue and keep quiet.
 
Brett said:
?I would like to point out that the cop cut you a break. ?The supreme court ruled last year that a search warrant is not required to enter a car during a routine traffic stop. ?The combination of threatening the officer with profanity, and challenging his authority to check the interior of your vehicle were valid grounds to arrest you on the spot. ?I know it hurts, but sometimes you have to bite your tongue and keep quiet.
Click to expand...
What routine traffic stop? It was a sobreity checkpoint. Where is the probable cause or reasonable suspicion? The State of Washington tried these roadblocks years ago but were forced to quit after they were found to violate the State Constitution.
 
Seems to me that any "random" checkpoints would violate most states' constitutions. ?What kind of probable cause could possibly exist for randomly checking people (for sobriety or whatever)? ?Even if they checked everybody, there still would be no valid probable cause.

Opinions?
 
not that y'all need my advice on this, which has now evolved into a matter of opinion, but the issues of probable cause justifying vehicle searches, random check points, and profiling of driviners have all been the subject of a great deal of case law in many of your states, with varying results, so what is the case in one state might not be the exact same deal in another.

but you guys have a very good sense of the issues, debate on . . .
 
My OH registration lists mine as a truck.
We have random checkpoints here in Youngstown every weekend. :7: :7:
So basically 10-15 cops waste our tax dollars while one of the highest per capita crime rate cities continues to go to sh*t :8:
 
State Farm lists my Avalanche as a quad cab pickup in Illinois.

P.S. I did some volunteer work with Dallas police when I lived there and I can speak a little to the random search thing.

An officer usually needs a "reason for contact" to stop you. Examples of reasons for contact are: weaving, no front plate, speeding, expired tags, headlight out, and no seatbelt, etc.

Once stopped an officer can search your car if they for example make an arrest (search for weapons), or if simply if you make suspicous movements (reaching under the seat) or have suspicion of drugs, or see an open container in plain view.

The best thing to do is eliminate the "reason for contact". If you don't wear your seatbelt you are giving an officer the reason to stop you and then "dig deeper".

When we wanted to stop someone and check them out, the first thing we looked for was the seatbelt and back in the early 90's, that was a 7 out of 10 chance that they weren't wearing one.

But above all the biggest deciding factor on how the situation was handled by the officer was attitude. Choose your battlefield. Swallow you r pride, be polite and respectful and you may just get out of it.

If you are getting a ticket, fight it in court not on the street. Officers make notes when people are difficult and I promise you that they show up for those court dates. You want to be just another face and not stand out in his/her mind.


Legal Notice ;) : The above comments are purly my opinon. Laws and Law Enforcement procedures are different city to city and state to state.
 
I take everything I find on the internet with a grain of salt (except, of course, everything I read here ;) ). The following is a Summary of Decisions Concerning Constitutionality of Sobriety Checkpoints by state and as of March 2002.

http://www.hwysafety.org/safety_facts/state_laws/checkpoints.pdf

I have always been interested in this topic and there seems to be no consensus across the country and within the courts.
 
i.t. - suggest you log onto a motorcylce forum and join the lively debate over mandated helmet usage ;D , that's the topic I am familiar with that involves the same issues of freedom to make one's own choices regarding safety issues. so many debates, so little time . . .

I think our views are similar, btw, although I decline to jump into the fray. peace.
 
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